the death penalty

_

ed243421 wrote:

scb wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

but why is it ok to kill during an attack to defend yourself
and then not ok to kill the attacker if he murders you

Do you see a difference between a murderer and someone who is defending himself? If you killed someone in self defense, do you think that is the same thing as the murder he would have committed against you?

yes
no

i just don't get the
"it's ok to kill an attacker even before he commits a murder
but once he does murder
it is not ok to kill him"
thinking

It's the same as the difference between the murderer and the person defending himself. The death penalty is analogous to the murder committed by the murderer. It is unnecessary, premeditated, and not in self defense. The only difference is that the state thinks it has a good reason. Oh wait... the murderer probably thinks that too.

_

This is only somewhat topical, but you know what I just learned? Woody Harrelson's dad was a convicted hitman. And he has sometimes taken credit for the assassination of JFK. Did everyone else know this already? I know it's not incredibly important; I just thought it was an interesting bit of useless trivia.

gimmesometruth27

scb wrote:

This is only somewhat topical, but you know what I just learned? Woody Harrelson's dad was a convicted hitman. And he has sometimes taken credit for the assassination of JFK. Did everyone else know this already? I know it's not incredibly important; I just thought it was an interesting bit of useless trivia.

well apparently he must die for his supposed crimes right???

:roll:

OnTheEdge

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

scb wrote:

This is only somewhat topical, but you know what I just learned? Woody Harrelson's dad was a convicted hitman. And he has sometimes taken credit for the assassination of JFK. Did everyone else know this already? I know it's not incredibly important; I just thought it was an interesting bit of useless trivia.

well apparently he must die for his supposed crimes right???

:roll:

No way dude! hitmen are cool.

catefrances

scb wrote:

This is only somewhat topical, but you know what I just learned? Woody Harrelson's dad was a convicted hitman. And he has sometimes taken credit for the assassination of JFK. Did everyone else know this already? I know it's not incredibly important; I just thought it was an interesting bit of useless trivia.

yes ive known for years.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

wow, it's interesting that Woody then played Mickey Knox in Natural Born Killers.

scb wrote:

This is only somewhat topical, but you know what I just learned? Woody Harrelson's dad was a convicted hitman. And he has sometimes taken credit for the assassination of JFK. Did everyone else know this already? I know it's not incredibly important; I just thought it was an interesting bit of useless trivia.

chadwick

good morning.
we can't let this thread sink to the bottom!
so...
who are we offing this morning?

JonnyPistachio

so, ed243421, chadwick, and anyone else who is pro-DP, please answer this:

Do you think the DP has been a successful punishment system in America? Why?
And are you aware of the wrongfully accused? Do you still think it is a successful practice if an innocent man/woman has ever been executed by the government?

Thanks.

chadwick

JonnyPistachio wrote:

so, ed243421, chadwick, and anyone else who is pro-DP, please answer this:

Do you think the DP has been a successful punishment system in America? Why?
And are you aware of the wrongfully accused? Do you still think it is a successful practice if an innocent man/woman has ever been executed by the government?

Thanks.

wrongful death sucks balls.
putting to sleep some evil prick is the equivalent of sunshine.
success is the death of a nasty evil thing.
has it cured our problems? no

we are human beings.
we are stupid.

ask any cockroach how smart we are and they will laugh.

ed243421

JonnyPistachio wrote:

so, ed243421, chadwick, and anyone else who is pro-DP, please answer this:

Do you think the DP has been a successful punishment system in America? Why?
And are you aware of the wrongfully accused? Do you still think it is a successful practice if an innocent man/woman has ever been executed by the government?

Thanks.

all we want executed are the monsters caught red-handed with no chance of error
the easy ones
those are the ones that should not waste a dollar or minute of anyone's money or time
their right to a fair trial should not take more than the 10 seconds it would take a judge to say "GUILTY"
any cases with any doubt, do what you want

about ten years back in my town
a guy walks into his former workplace
shotguns, pistols, ammo
kills like 6
wounds others
one of the dead is a mother, first day back from maternity leave
this guy walks to the front door to wait for the police
once they see a video survailence of him doing it
or put his prints on a gun
he should be tried and executed
less than a minute

right now,
he's waiting for lunch
i wonder if his cell has air conditioning
it's like a 100 degrees here in massachusetts today

chadwick

ed243421 wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

so, ed243421, chadwick, and anyone else who is pro-DP, please answer this:

Do you think the DP has been a successful punishment system in America? Why?
And are you aware of the wrongfully accused? Do you still think it is a successful practice if an innocent man/woman has ever been executed by the government?

Thanks.

all we want executed are the monsters caught red-handed with no chance of error
the easy ones
those are the ones that should not waste a dollar or minute of anyone's money or time
their right to a fair trial should not take more than the 10 seconds it would take a judge to say "GUILTY"
any cases with any doubt, do what you want

about ten years back in my town
a guy walks into his former workplace
shotguns, pistols, ammo
kills like 6
wounds others
one of the dead is a mother, first day back from maternity leave
this guy walks to the front door to wait for the police
once they see a video survailence of him doing it
or put his prints on a gun
he should be tried and executed
less than a minute

right now,
he's waiting for lunch
i wonder if his cell has air conditioning
it's like a 100 degrees here in massachusetts today

very well said.
like you stated, it only takes 10 seconds.
the guy should be breathing his own bone dust in some thin cedar box.

chadwick

please tell me that somewhere
some twisted sick fucker
is taking his final breath
before execution

btw, Sunday mornings are great for offing "the thing"

JonnyPistachio

chadwick wrote:

please tell me that somewhere
some twisted sick fucker
is taking his final breath
before execution

btw, Sunday mornings are great for offing "the thing"

I don't know much about each 'thing' on this list, but I know all of them took their final breath because of the state:
Carlos DeLuna Texas Conviction: 1983, Executed: 1989
Ruben Cantu Texas Convicted: 1985, Executed: 1993
Larry Griffin Missouri Conviction: 1981, Executed: 1995
Joseph O'Dell Virginia Conviction: 1986, Executed: 1997
David Spence Texas Conviction: 1984, Executed: 1997
Leo Jones Florida Convicted: 1981, Executed: 1998
Gary Graham Texas Convicted: 1981, Executed: 2000
Cameron Willingham Texas Convicted: 1992, Executed: 2004

Know what else? There is controversy surround each of them as to whether or not they were actually guilty.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execute ... y-innocent

Hugh Freaking Dillon

the lesson here? don't mess with Texas.

JonnyPistachio wrote:

chadwick wrote:

please tell me that somewhere
some twisted sick fucker
is taking his final breath
before execution

btw, Sunday mornings are great for offing "the thing"

I don't know much about each 'thing' on this list, but I know all of them took their final breath because of the state:
Carlos DeLuna Texas Conviction: 1983, Executed: 1989
Ruben Cantu Texas Convicted: 1985, Executed: 1993
Larry Griffin Missouri Conviction: 1981, Executed: 1995
Joseph O'Dell Virginia Conviction: 1986, Executed: 1997
David Spence Texas Conviction: 1984, Executed: 1997
Leo Jones Florida Convicted: 1981, Executed: 1998
Gary Graham Texas Convicted: 1981, Executed: 2000
Cameron Willingham Texas Convicted: 1992, Executed: 2004

Know what else? There is controversy surround each of them as to whether or not they were actually guilty.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execute ... y-innocent

chadwick

JonnyPistachio wrote:

chadwick wrote:

please tell me that somewhere
some twisted sick fucker
is taking his final breath
before execution

btw, Sunday mornings are great for offing "the thing"

I don't know much about each 'thing' on this list, but I know all of them took their final breath because of the state:
Carlos DeLuna Texas Conviction: 1983, Executed: 1989
Ruben Cantu Texas Convicted: 1985, Executed: 1993
Larry Griffin Missouri Conviction: 1981, Executed: 1995
Joseph O'Dell Virginia Conviction: 1986, Executed: 1997
David Spence Texas Conviction: 1984, Executed: 1997
Leo Jones Florida Convicted: 1981, Executed: 1998
Gary Graham Texas Convicted: 1981, Executed: 2000
Cameron Willingham Texas Convicted: 1992, Executed: 2004

Know what else? There is controversy surround each of them as to whether or not they were actually guilty.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execute ... y-innocent

im talking about being caught red-handed, straight up guilty without a doubt.
Andrei Chikatilo, Gary Ridgway, ect, ect.
they are monsters... they are not human... .357 magnum hollow point round to the skull.
it is without a doubt a fantastic moment in time.
that's how the Soviets stopped Andrei.

again... they are not human beings.
they may look like it, but in fact, they are not nowhere near human.

chadwick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_E._Duncan_III

what about Joe Duncan?
@ age 15 he raped a 9 year old at gun point.
by age 16 he claims to have raped 13 younger boys.
he's killed an entire family with a hammer and abducted the little girl and little boy from said family and molested them for 6 weeks.
finally he was caught at Denny's by a waitress who recognised the little girl.

he was sentenced to death.

he had been in prison several times before this, been in trouble his entire life.
he is a monster.

keeping him alive is insane.
i truly hope he has been sent to hell by now.

FiveB247x

chadwick, you can list many completely guilty people who you deem in line for death, and you could find an equal number of people on death row who the evidence is murky or there's not 100% guarantee about guilt. so simply saying one portion in the manner you are, doesn't equate to the entire picture. You can't make policy and base it on the most extreme, outlandish scenario and apply it to all... it's not sound, just or right.

chadwick

FiveB247x wrote:

chadwick, you can list many completely guilty people who you deem in line for death, and you could find an equal number of people on death row who the evidence is murky or there's not 100% guarantee about guilt. so simply saying one portion in the manner you are, doesn't equate to the entire picture. You can't make policy and base it on the most extreme, outlandish scenario and apply it to all... it's not sound, just or right.

does joseph duncan deserve to be executed, today?

FiveB247x

To you yes, to me no. I don't think it serves any purpose. Put him in jail to rot the rest of his life with no parole and interaction with others.

chadwick wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

chadwick, you can list many completely guilty people who you deem in line for death, and you could find an equal number of people on death row who the evidence is murky or there's not 100% guarantee about guilt. so simply saying one portion in the manner you are, doesn't equate to the entire picture. You can't make policy and base it on the most extreme, outlandish scenario and apply it to all... it's not sound, just or right.

does joseph duncan deserve to be executed, today?

ed243421

FiveB247x wrote:

To you yes, to me no. I don't think it serves any purpose. Put him in jail to rot the rest of his life with no parole and interaction with others.

chadwick wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

chadwick, you can list many completely guilty people who you deem in line for death, and you could find an equal number of people on death row who the evidence is murky or there's not 100% guarantee about guilt. so simply saying one portion in the manner you are, doesn't equate to the entire picture. You can't make policy and base it on the most extreme, outlandish scenario and apply it to all... it's not sound, just or right.

does joseph duncan deserve to be executed, today?

if executing him serves no purpose

then what is the purpose of jailing him for life

FiveB247x

Break the law and lose your freedoms - ie which is the purpose, intent and moral lesson to dictate to society. Killing a person doesn't serve any purpose other than convenience and vengeance. If the death penalty isn't a deterrent to killing, why practice it?

ed243421 wrote:

if executing him serves no purpose

then what is the purpose of jailing him for life

ed243421

FiveB247x wrote:

Break the law and lose your freedoms - ie which is the purpose, intent and moral lesson to dictate to society. Killing a person doesn't serve any purpose other than convenience and vengeance. If the death penalty isn't a deterrent to killing, why practice it?

ed243421 wrote:

if executing him serves no purpose

then what is the purpose of jailing him for life

the death penalty IS a deterrent to killing

the murderer who gets executed would never kill again

FiveB247x

Very narrow thinking. Laws don't apply solely to punish the guilty, but mostly to deter society as a whole to engage in that behavior.

ed243421 wrote:

the death penalty IS a deterrent to killing

the murderer who gets executed would never kill again

ed243421

FiveB247x wrote:

Very narrow thinking. Laws don't apply solely to punish the guilty, but mostly to deter society as a whole to engage in that behavior.

ed243421 wrote:

the death penalty IS a deterrent to killing

the murderer who gets executed would never kill again

so which is a better way to deter society as a whole from engaging in that behavior?

to rid society of a monster who would rape and kill children?

or to house, feed, educate and rehabilitate him?

FiveB247x

To deter society as a whole from engaging in that behavior by removing a "monster" and playing them in jail for life. Rehabilitation may not always be viable due to circumstances on the person and crime.

ed243421 wrote:

so which is a better way to deter society as a whole from engaging in that behavior?

to rid society of a monster who would rape and kill children?

or to house, feed, educate and rehabilitate him?

ed243421

FiveB247x wrote:

To deter society as a whole from engaging in that behavior by removing a "monster" and playing them in jail for life. Rehabilitation may not always be viable due to circumstances on the person and crime.

ed243421 wrote:

so which is a better way to deter society as a whole from engaging in that behavior?

to rid society of a monster who would rape and kill children?

or to house, feed, educate and rehabilitate him?

let us agree to disagree

FiveB247x

Fair enough. Have a good day.

ed243421 wrote:

let us agree to disagree

_

ed243421 wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Very narrow thinking. Laws don't apply solely to punish the guilty, but mostly to deter society as a whole to engage in that behavior.

ed243421 wrote:

the death penalty IS a deterrent to killing

the murderer who gets executed would never kill again

so which is a better way to deter society as a whole from engaging in that behavior?

to rid society of a monster who would rape and kill children?

or to house, feed, educate and rehabilitate him?

Generally speaking, I would say that education has cured more of the world's ills than violence ever has.

gimmesometruth27

scb wrote:

Generally speaking, I would say that education has cured more of the world's ills than violence ever has.

it can also be argued that lack of education can lead to increased violence. the less sophisticated a society is the more violent it is.

_

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

scb wrote:

Generally speaking, I would say that education has cured more of the world's ills than violence ever has.

it can also be argued that lack of education can lead to increased violence. the less sophisticated a society is the more violent it is.

Good point.