the death penalty

gimmesometruth27

ed243421 wrote:

"if it were him or me that was going to die, trust me, it would not be me"

i can't trust you because many people who think that way get murdered anyways
and IF you were one of the many people murdered
IF it was you
you would want him to live a life

seriously, i'm confused to how anti dp people think

you can kill in SELF defense
but if you are murdered, we should not kill?

think about it. i am able to forgive anything. i would not want you to kill my killer as revenge and i would not want you to kill my killer in an attempt to make things even. it would not be your responsibility to do something like that. i would want you to remember me and get my killer the psychological help that he obviously would have been lacking.

ed243421

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

"if it were him or me that was going to die, trust me, it would not be me"

i can't trust you because many people who think that way get murdered anyways
and IF you were one of the many people murdered
IF it was you
you would want him to live a life

seriously, i'm confused to how anti dp people think

you can kill in SELF defense
but if you are murdered, we should not kill?

think about it. i am able to forgive anything. i would not want you to kill my killer as revenge and i would not want you to kill my killer in an attempt to make things even. it would not be your responsibility to do something like that. i would want you to remember me and get my killer the psychological help that he obviously would have been lacking.

you say you do not want any harm to come to your attacker if he kills you

yet

you would, if given the chance during the attack, kill him

still confused here

gimmesometruth27

ed243421 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

"if it were him or me that was going to die, trust me, it would not be me"

i can't trust you because many people who think that way get murdered anyways
and IF you were one of the many people murdered
IF it was you
you would want him to live a life

seriously, i'm confused to how anti dp people think

you can kill in SELF defense
but if you are murdered, we should not kill?

think about it. i am able to forgive anything. i would not want you to kill my killer as revenge and i would not want you to kill my killer in an attempt to make things even. it would not be your responsibility to do something like that. i would want you to remember me and get my killer the psychological help that he obviously would have been lacking.

you say you do not want any harm to come to your attacker if he kills you

yet

you would, if given the chance during the attack, kill him

still confused here

IT IS TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!!!

seriously think about it. i can defend myself, and if i lose i lose. me defending myself and killing an attacker is heat of the moment not premeditated. capital punishment is premeditated. it is not your duty nor anyone else's to take revenge on my behalf.

chadwick

iowa state penitentiary
poetry coming up

:twisted:

if i were you people
i'd sharpen your knives

catefrances

ed243421 wrote:

this is for scb and the other anti-death-penalty folk

could you kill someone if they attacked you and you felt it would be your only way to survive?
would you?
my guess is that you would, if needed to

then why is it that you feel that if it was YOUR life that was in danger of being taken, the person can die?

but for all the other murderers in this world, they should rot in prison.

is it hypocritical to be against the dp and defend yourself with a weapon if attacked?


once again
this is not about "bringing someone back"
the murderer has done things that prevent that

absolutely not. it is not hypocritical to defend your life against an attacker. im certainly not going to stand there andv allow myself to be raped, murdered or whatever else an attacker intends to visit upon me. if i were fighting for my life, i would fight. i would do everything in my power to stop the attack. if the attacker ends up dead then that is just too bad. my priority in this instance is MY life.

for you to compare the premeditated execution of a someone with a struggle to protect oneself is ludicrous.

chadwick

catefrances wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

this is for scb and the other anti-death-penalty folk

could you kill someone if they attacked you and you felt it would be your only way to survive?
would you?
my guess is that you would, if needed to

then why is it that you feel that if it was YOUR life that was in danger of being taken, the person can die?

but for all the other murderers in this world, they should rot in prison.

is it hypocritical to be against the dp and defend yourself with a weapon if attacked?


once again
this is not about "bringing someone back"
the murderer has done things that prevent that

absolutely not. it is not hypocritical to defend your life against an attacker. im certainly not going to stand there andv allow myself to be raped, murdered or whatever else an attacker intends to visit upon me. if i were fighting for my life, i would fight. i would do everything in my power to stop the attack. if the attacker ends up dead then that is just too bad. my priority in this instance is MY life.

for you to compare the premeditated execution of a someone with a struggle to protect oneself is ludicrous.

and people love you cate
so we are glad to defend you
to protect you at all costs
we want to keep dog shit away from you, forever
please let us do our job

catefrances

chadwick wrote:

catefrances wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

this is for scb and the other anti-death-penalty folk

could you kill someone if they attacked you and you felt it would be your only way to survive?
would you?
my guess is that you would, if needed to

then why is it that you feel that if it was YOUR life that was in danger of being taken, the person can die?

but for all the other murderers in this world, they should rot in prison.

is it hypocritical to be against the dp and defend yourself with a weapon if attacked?


once again
this is not about "bringing someone back"
the murderer has done things that prevent that

absolutely not. it is not hypocritical to defend your life against an attacker. im certainly not going to stand there andv allow myself to be raped, murdered or whatever else an attacker intends to visit upon me. if i were fighting for my life, i would fight. i would do everything in my power to stop the attack. if the attacker ends up dead then that is just too bad. my priority in this instance is MY life.

for you to compare the premeditated execution of a someone with a struggle to protect oneself is ludicrous.

and people love you cate
so we are glad to defend you
to protect you at all costs
we want to keep dog shit away from you, forever
please let us do our job

do your job??? of killing people in revenge??? you know i cant allow that to happen. ill be honest with you chad and tell you your comments in this thread have left me appalled. earlier on you said you thought you knew me better, well... it works both ways. no conversation weve ever had prepared me for the vitriol youvve shown here.

chadwick

catefrances wrote:

do your job??? of killing people in revenge??? you know i cant allow that to happen. ill be honest with you chad and tell you your comments in this thread have left me appalled. earlier on you said you thought you knew me better, well... it works both ways. no conversation weve ever had prepared me for the vitriol youvve shown here.

so do you think i can write my serial killer truck driver book with decent success?

catefrances

chadwick wrote:

catefrances wrote:

do your job??? of killing people in revenge??? you know i cant allow that to happen. ill be honest with you chad and tell you your comments in this thread have left me appalled. earlier on you said you thought you knew me better, well... it works both ways. no conversation weve ever had prepared me for the vitriol youvve shown here.

so do you think i can write my serial killer truck driver book with decent success?

dont see why not, ive managed to do it. though i guess it all depends on your definition of success.

chadwick

catefrances wrote:

chadwick wrote:

catefrances wrote:

do your job??? of killing people in revenge??? you know i cant allow that to happen. ill be honest with you chad and tell you your comments in this thread have left me appalled. earlier on you said you thought you knew me better, well... it works both ways. no conversation weve ever had prepared me for the vitriol youvve shown here.

so do you think i can write my serial killer truck driver book with decent success?

dont see why not, ive managed to do it. though i guess it all depends on your definition of success.

success would be,

daily writing additions to a decent story for the final act of a book
all typed into a ball of shit and piss

it should be a hoot

ed243421

catefrances wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

this is for scb and the other anti-death-penalty folk

could you kill someone if they attacked you and you felt it would be your only way to survive?
would you?
my guess is that you would, if needed to

then why is it that you feel that if it was YOUR life that was in danger of being taken, the person can die?

but for all the other murderers in this world, they should rot in prison.

is it hypocritical to be against the dp and defend yourself with a weapon if attacked?


once again
this is not about "bringing someone back"
the murderer has done things that prevent that

absolutely not. it is not hypocritical to defend your life against an attacker. im certainly not going to stand there andv allow myself to be raped, murdered or whatever else an attacker intends to visit upon me. if i were fighting for my life, i would fight. i would do everything in my power to stop the attack. if the attacker ends up dead then that is just too bad. my priority in this instance is MY life.

for you to compare the premeditated execution of a someone with a struggle to protect oneself is ludicrous.

cate

that is my point
i expect you to try to defend your self
and if killing an attacker is how to do it, great
but why is it ok to kill during an attack to defend yourself
and then not ok to kill the attacker if he murders you

catefrances

ed243421 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

this is for scb and the other anti-death-penalty folk

could you kill someone if they attacked you and you felt it would be your only way to survive?
would you?
my guess is that you would, if needed to

then why is it that you feel that if it was YOUR life that was in danger of being taken, the person can die?

but for all the other murderers in this world, they should rot in prison.

is it hypocritical to be against the dp and defend yourself with a weapon if attacked?


once again
this is not about "bringing someone back"
the murderer has done things that prevent that

absolutely not. it is not hypocritical to defend your life against an attacker. im certainly not going to stand there andv allow myself to be raped, murdered or whatever else an attacker intends to visit upon me. if i were fighting for my life, i would fight. i would do everything in my power to stop the attack. if the attacker ends up dead then that is just too bad. my priority in this instance is MY life.

for you to compare the premeditated execution of a someone with a struggle to protect oneself is ludicrous.

cate

that is my point
i expect you to try to defend your self
and if killing an attacker is how to do it, great
but why is it ok to kill during an attack to defend yourself
and then not ok to kill the attacker if he murders you

because execution is premeditated state sanctioned murder. it is vengeance not justice. fighting for my life against an attacker is just that... fighting for my life.

you know what??? its not ok to kill, but if it saves my life from imminent attack then so be it. id prefer a swift kick to the nuts to do the job, but sometimes youve got to go further. and that is a shame.

ed243421

"its not ok to kill, but if it saves my life from imminent attack then so be it"

that sounds hypocritical to me

we can't punish a murderer with the death penalty

but you are ready to kill a person who may only be planning to rob your house

and if someone kills their 5 kids and wife

you think to execute him would be premeditated murder

chadwick

ed243421 wrote:

"its not ok to kill, but if it saves my life from imminent attack then so be it"

that sounds hypocritical to me

we can't punish a murderer with the death penalty

but you are ready to kill a person who may only be planning to rob your house

and if someone kills their 5 kids and wife

you think to execute him would be premeditated murder

i know it's bizarre to me too.

unreal, really

catefrances

ed243421 wrote:

"its not ok to kill, but if it saves my life from imminent attack then so be it"

that sounds hypocritical to me

we can't punish a murderer with the death penalty

but you are ready to kill a person who may only be planning to rob your house

and if someone kills their 5 kids and wife

you think to execute him would be premeditated murder

i apologise for using the term imminent attack. it was the wrong wordage. i would never be ready to kill someone who entered my house to rob it. i care nothing for my possessions. i was speaking of an attack on my person.

of course execution is pre meditated state sanctioned murder. how can it not be premditated??

ed243421

catefrances wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

"its not ok to kill, but if it saves my life from imminent attack then so be it"

that sounds hypocritical to me

we can't punish a murderer with the death penalty

but you are ready to kill a person who may only be planning to rob your house

and if someone kills their 5 kids and wife

you think to execute him would be premeditated murder

i apologise for using the term imminent attack. it was the wrong wordage. i would never be ready to kill someone who entered my house to rob it. i care nothing for my possessions. i was speaking of an attack on my person.

of course execution is pre meditated state sanctioned murder. how can it not be premditated??

so it starts as a robbery
escalates to an attack
just because he did not know you were there
and you struggle
and you kill him in self-defense
with his weapon
it's happened before

execution is premeditated
it is not murder

catefrances

ed243421 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

"its not ok to kill, but if it saves my life from imminent attack then so be it"

that sounds hypocritical to me

we can't punish a murderer with the death penalty

but you are ready to kill a person who may only be planning to rob your house

and if someone kills their 5 kids and wife

you think to execute him would be premeditated murder

i apologise for using the term imminent attack. it was the wrong wordage. i would never be ready to kill someone who entered my house to rob it. i care nothing for my possessions. i was speaking of an attack on my person.

of course execution is pre meditated state sanctioned murder. how can it not be premditated??

so it starts as a robbery
escalates to an attack
just because he did not know you were there
and you struggle
and you kill him in self-defense
with his weapon
it's happened before

execution is premeditated
it is not murder

well if the robber is intent on doing me bodily harm then im afraid i will feel the need to defend myself. it will not be my intention to kill the attacker but if thats what it takes to stop them and i am unable to esape then so be it.

murder implies intent. an execution is the intentional state sanctioned killing of someone.. therefore it is murder. just cause its law doesnt make it any less murder.

FiveB247x

Just catching up on several of the posts tonight...

If a person kills in self-defense, they are defending themselves.

Several you think it is ok to place yourself in the role of "watching out for others" or "safeguarding others" when it is nothing more than self-appointed. A singular person defending themselves from attack which ends up in death, is no where near the same as an outside 3rd party self-proclaiming it is their duty for others to step in and dictate revenge, a punishment or similar. This is nothing more than glorified retaliation on behalf of the state and calling it "lawful and moral".

It'd sooner appreciate to simply hear from people they want to rid society of scum (as chadwick has pretty much stated) than utter disillusionment about some bs cause for the greater good. Just be honest about it.

ed243421

FiveB247x wrote:

Just catching up on several of the posts tonight...

If a person kills in self-defense, they are defending themselves.

Several you think it is ok to place yourself in the role of "watching out for others" or "safeguarding others" when it is nothing more than self-appointed. A singular person defending themselves from attack which ends up in death, is no where near the same as an outside 3rd party self-proclaiming it is their duty for others to step in and dictate revenge, a punishment or similar. This is nothing more than glorified retaliation on behalf of the state and calling it "lawful and moral".

It'd sooner appreciate to simply hear from people they want to rid society of scum (as chadwick has pretty much stated) than utter disillusionment about some bs cause for the greater good. Just be honest about it.

i fully understand defending oneself
it is not murder
i just do not get a person saying they could kill in self-defense
but if they were murdered
they would only want the murderer to serve a prison sentence
and society should "watch out for others" and "safegfuard others"
that is what society does when they send a person to a prison
or sentence a person to death

and, i want to rid society of scum FOR the greater good, honestly

FiveB247x

You're making the assumption that everyone feels it would be for the same greater good to get rid of scum, compared to letting someone rot in jail for life. Also, many recognize that killing a guilty person is more a sign of vengeance than justice - and the moral code to set forth in society doesn't stop the cycle, it continues it, so they choose to end it by not being for the death penalty.

ed243421 wrote:

i fully understand defending oneself
it is not murder
i just do not get a person saying they could kill in self-defense
but if they were murdered
they would only want the murderer to serve a prison sentence
and society should "watch out for others" and "safegfuard others"
that is what society does when they send a person to a prison
or sentence a person to death

and, i want to rid society of scum FOR the greater good, honestly

_

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

he said he never had a problem with the prisoners because he treated them like humans. the ones that got attacked and had problems with many of the inmates were assholes to them and tended to be a little overzealous with the beatings when doing cell extractions. he told me one time he thought that asshole superguards made all of the other decent guards less safe, and i believed him when he said that. .

I totally agree with this, in prison and in life in general. I feel much more safe with people who are respectful than with those who are aggressive - especially when talking about security officers of any kind. That's one reason I try to avoid the bars with the tough guy bouncers.

_

OnTheEdge wrote:

I gotta laugh at all the comments about chadwick being angry. Let it all out chadwick, you'll feel better

Why does somebody have to be angry to kill a lowlife murdering scumbag that doesn't deserve to dream,eat,sleep,read a book,etc... Why do people feel so sympathetic towards these people? Are you afraid GOD won't except you into heaven if you think such thoughts. I really can't figure it out. Some of you talk like you have all the answers. SCB, how do you know that somebody will not feel at peace if their loved ones killer was executed. I have heard quite the opposite on documentaries on tv.

Did I say that? I don't think it's impossible, but I do think it's unlikely. Violence is the opposite of peace. Pretty simple. And their loved one will still be dead, so how could they ever be at peace?

_

ed243421 wrote:

this is for scb and the other anti-death-penalty folk

could you kill someone if they attacked you and you felt it would be your only way to survive?
would you?
my guess is that you would, if needed to

then why is it that you feel that if it was YOUR life that was in danger of being taken, the person can die?

but for all the other murderers in this world, they should rot in prison.

is it hypocritical to be against the dp and defend yourself with a weapon if attacked?


once again
this is not about "bringing someone back"
the murderer has done things that prevent that

Hey! I was wondering where you went.

Well, for one thing, I don't want to kill anyone, even if I am being attacked. That's why I got rid of my gun. So your assumption that I think my life is special is wrong. If I ever did kill someone in self defense, I think I would feel horrible about it for the rest of my life. (Now, if I let someone else die when I could have stopped it, I'd probably feel even more horrible about that.)

Secondly, I'm pretty sure you know the huge difference between having to kill someone as the only way to stop a murder and killing someone unnecessarily simply for revenge.

_

ed243421 wrote:

you can kill in SELF defense
but if you are murdered, we should not kill?

Right. It would no longer be defense. I don't think the self part has anything to do with it.

_

ed243421 wrote:

you say you do not want any harm to come to your attacker if he kills you

yet

you would, if given the chance during the attack, kill him

still confused here

One is necessary to save a life. (Plus, ideally, you wouldn't be trying to kill the attacker, just stop him.) The other is not necessary and only takes a life.

_

ed243421 wrote:

but why is it ok to kill during an attack to defend yourself
and then not ok to kill the attacker if he murders you

Do you see a difference between a murderer and someone who is defending himself? If you killed someone in self defense, do you think that is the same thing as the murder he would have committed against you?

_

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5RU2LqA ... grec_index

This video was posted in the abortion/DP thread. Check out the part starting at about 3:15. What do you pro-DP folks think about the ideas of this guy? What is the difference between the pro-DP stance and what he's saying? To me, it's very similar. He's saying that it's okay to kill people who don't "deserve" to live, if you have a good "reason".

ed243421

scb wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

this is for scb and the other anti-death-penalty folk

could you kill someone if they attacked you and you felt it would be your only way to survive?
would you?
my guess is that you would, if needed to

then why is it that you feel that if it was YOUR life that was in danger of being taken, the person can die?

but for all the other murderers in this world, they should rot in prison.

is it hypocritical to be against the dp and defend yourself with a weapon if attacked?


once again
this is not about "bringing someone back"
the murderer has done things that prevent that

Hey! I was wondering where you went.

Well, for one thing, I don't want to kill anyone, even if I am being attacked. That's why I got rid of my gun. So your assumption that I think my life is special is wrong. If I ever did kill someone in self defense, I think I would feel horrible about it for the rest of my life. (Now, if I let someone else die when I could have stopped it, I'd probably feel even more horrible about that.)

Secondly, I'm pretty sure you know the huge difference between having to kill someone as the only way to stop a murder and killing someone unnecessarily simply for revenge.

we just gotta agree to disagree
i believe it is necessary and not for revenge
they murdered an innocent person
gone forever
it will not bring anyone back
i just don't get it, the guy in the op put a knife into his kids many times
and you wanna book him a room for life
and just to clear it up , i'm all for killing anyone in self defense, when necessary

ed243421

scb wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

but why is it ok to kill during an attack to defend yourself
and then not ok to kill the attacker if he murders you

Do you see a difference between a murderer and someone who is defending himself? If you killed someone in self defense, do you think that is the same thing as the murder he would have committed against you?

yes
no

i just don't get the
"it's ok to kill an attacker even before he commits a murder
but once he does murder
it is not ok to kill him"
thinking

_

ed243421 wrote:

we just gotta agree to disagree
i believe it is necessary and not for revenge
they murdered an innocent person
gone forever
it will not bring anyone back
i just don't get it, the guy in the op put a knife into his kids many times
and you wanna book him a room for life
and just to clear it up , i'm all for killing anyone in self defense, when necessary

I don't understand how it's supposedly necessary.