.....(even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. ....
That is contradictory. If one believes in god, by default one must believe in the devil as Satan is referenced so many times in the bible as the adversary of god.
Unless of course you stick to the old testament where there is no heaven or hell and satan is still 'up there' with god!
BTW this isnt fun online discussion for me. I cant stop thinking about your eternal soul and yes that is why I want to you at least open your mind yet again to God. I cant let it go, it saddens me to know what I know and what you once knew and me not be able to do anything to help you.
...
Pardon me for responding to this... I don't pretend to speak for Johnny, here... but, i have heard this from many, many Christians i have had these discussions with.
...
From my many debates and discussions on the matter... the one that always come up is that one... the whole helping/saving others to find their way to an exclusive club. Johnny Sitar will be just fine. You don't need to 'help' (i.e. save) him from anything. He does not have to be like you... believe as you do... or do the things you do for God to love him. God loves Johnny because... well, just because. Even if Johnny doesn't believe in Him... God loves him. He's not a petty, vengeful, vain, intolerant entity to be fearful of... those sound more like traits that would be tied to Satan... than God. Johnny will be okay.
Me? I have faith in Johnny... he seems like a nice enough guy and all. He should decide on his own... which path through this life he should take... it ain't my job to decide for him.
...
And I wish you well on your journey.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
.....(even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. ....
That is contradictory. If one believes in god, by default one must believe in the devil as Satan is referenced so many times in the bible as the adversary of god.
Unless of course you stick to the old testament where there is no heaven or hell and satan is still 'up there' with god!
by default one must believe? one is not required to believe in anything by default. look at how many people delete certain passages in the bible to suit their own needs. certain religions, yes, Christians, don't believe Satan exists. I assure you this is the truth.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
.....(even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. ....
That is contradictory. If one believes in god, by default one must believe in the devil as Satan is referenced so many times in the bible as the adversary of god.
Unless of course you stick to the old testament where there is no heaven or hell and satan is still 'up there' with god!
by default one must believe? one is not required to believe in anything by default. look at how many people delete certain passages in the bible to suit their own needs. certain religions, yes, Christians, don't believe Satan exists. I assure you this is the truth.
Oh I know. The bible itself was 'constructed' with the scriptures/books the 'editors' decided to put in. But, logically, if you do believe in god, 'the good book' and it's teachings, you should also believe in all other 'beings', angels, satan (fallen angel), etc. They are all 'part of the story' and entwined with each other. No force of evil (satan) - no force of good (god), no hell, no punishment, no heaven, ... totally messes up the new testament!
Oh I know. The bible itself was 'constructed' with the scriptures/books the 'editors' decided to put in. But, logically, if you do believe in god, 'the good book' and it's teachings, you should also believe in all other 'beings', angels, satan (fallen angel), etc. They are all 'part of the story' and entwined with each other. No force of evil (satan) - no force of good (god), no hell, no punishment, no heaven, ... totally messes up the new testament!
there are those that don't believe that heaven and hell need to exist together in order to balance everything out. many believe there is no hell, just some sort of limbo or something. I can't remember exactly, as it somewhat surprised me as well, but it's the truth.
there are those who also don't recognize the new testament as part of the bible.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
many believe there is no hell, just some sort of limbo or something. I can't remember exactly, as it somewhat surprised me as well, but it's the truth. .
Not a real suprise. In the Old Testament, when you died you just went to sheol, however you lived your life (good or bad). Not limbo, just a resting place for the dead. There is no heaven or hell and no satan. All of those come with the New Testament. I would argue that the New Testament is recognised by the majority of christians. It has been altered a bit for the different religions (not the teachings, just the order of things) but all in all, it is still 'the book'.
The bible was put together by men with a certain agenda at the time. People will continue to see/read what they want in it, adding/flourishing some bits, ignoring/deleting others. It's just a book. A bit like The Da Vinci COde, or any books regarding the Templar Knights, etc. Those who believe will find their answers, those who don't will find ways to debunk the theories.
the logic behind "hell must exist if you believe in heaven." the notion of hell, evil, goodness, morality, etc... as concepts to me is just ignorant. They seem to be inventions of man (or the church) that are outdated.
And everyone here uses the word "is" way too much around here, especially in regards to god and religion. I don't know what anything "is" I only know what them seem to be in my present plane of consciousness.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Charles Darwin is a scientific god.
Charles Darwin is a scientific dog.
they are 90% alike in DNA but 2 completely different sentences
...
Actually... they are 84% alike in letters, which do not posess any DNA.
So. What is your point?
I think his point is, if I may, that how much dna we share is irrelevant. someone before mentioned we have similar dna to a dandelion or something like that, doesn't make us a flower. obviously, not a direct quote.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Charles Darwin is a scientific god.
Charles Darwin is a scientific dog.
they are 90% alike in DNA but 2 completely different sentences
...
Actually... they are 84% alike in letters, which do not posess any DNA.
So. What is your point?
I think his point is, if I may, that how much dna we share is irrelevant. someone before mentioned we have similar dna to a dandelion or something like that, doesn't make us a flower. obviously, not a direct quote.
...
Which still... has no point. No one disputes that we are not the same species as our chimpanzee relatives... or that we share common DNA. Turns out... all living things share common DNA. It does not mean there is a Creator behind all of this or there isn't. We are left with the same question... is there a God or isn't there?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Wouldnt it be easy if he just came right out and said there is a God and I am Him?
yes...it would be easy and it would be logical
If a loving god wants you to follow him so that you can be "saved" then he would make his presence known by ALL....not just those that happen to be born into christian homes
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I sometimes still can't believe Christianity exists despite all the evidence to dispute it. Or that some people make it so far in their personal education and still latch onto it...
Camden I '06, Camden II '06, Bonnaroo '08, Camden I '08, Camden II '08, Philly Spectrum II/III/IV '09, MSG I '10, MSG II '10, Made In America '12, Wrigley '13, Brooklyn II '13, Philly I '13, Philly II '13, ...
I sometimes still can't believe Christianity exists despite all the evidence to dispute it. Or that some people make it so far in their personal education and still latch onto it...
agreed...but we are definitely seeing a drop in those that claim to believe
people forget that Europe has a huge % of nonbelievers
Wouldnt it be easy if he just came right out and said there is a God and I am Him?
yes...it would be easy and it would be logical
If a loving god wants you to follow him so that you can be "saved" then he would make his presence known by ALL....not just those that happen to be born into christian homes
Funny that's what Jesus did and this is why so many people over so many generations continue to follow him
Comments
So death is not a result of our sinful nature or children would not die. I'm confused... where does pro-choice fit in with my question?
That is contradictory. If one believes in god, by default one must believe in the devil as Satan is referenced so many times in the bible as the adversary of god.
Unless of course you stick to the old testament where there is no heaven or hell and satan is still 'up there' with god!
Pardon me for responding to this... I don't pretend to speak for Johnny, here... but, i have heard this from many, many Christians i have had these discussions with.
...
From my many debates and discussions on the matter... the one that always come up is that one... the whole helping/saving others to find their way to an exclusive club. Johnny Sitar will be just fine. You don't need to 'help' (i.e. save) him from anything. He does not have to be like you... believe as you do... or do the things you do for God to love him. God loves Johnny because... well, just because. Even if Johnny doesn't believe in Him... God loves him. He's not a petty, vengeful, vain, intolerant entity to be fearful of... those sound more like traits that would be tied to Satan... than God. Johnny will be okay.
Me? I have faith in Johnny... he seems like a nice enough guy and all. He should decide on his own... which path through this life he should take... it ain't my job to decide for him.
...
And I wish you well on your journey.
Hail, Hail!!!
by default one must believe? one is not required to believe in anything by default. look at how many people delete certain passages in the bible to suit their own needs. certain religions, yes, Christians, don't believe Satan exists. I assure you this is the truth.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Oh I know. The bible itself was 'constructed' with the scriptures/books the 'editors' decided to put in. But, logically, if you do believe in god, 'the good book' and it's teachings, you should also believe in all other 'beings', angels, satan (fallen angel), etc. They are all 'part of the story' and entwined with each other. No force of evil (satan) - no force of good (god), no hell, no punishment, no heaven, ... totally messes up the new testament!
there are those that don't believe that heaven and hell need to exist together in order to balance everything out. many believe there is no hell, just some sort of limbo or something. I can't remember exactly, as it somewhat surprised me as well, but it's the truth.
there are those who also don't recognize the new testament as part of the bible.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I do.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
and you are referring to.....?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Not a real suprise. In the Old Testament, when you died you just went to sheol, however you lived your life (good or bad). Not limbo, just a resting place for the dead. There is no heaven or hell and no satan. All of those come with the New Testament. I would argue that the New Testament is recognised by the majority of christians. It has been altered a bit for the different religions (not the teachings, just the order of things) but all in all, it is still 'the book'.
The bible was put together by men with a certain agenda at the time. People will continue to see/read what they want in it, adding/flourishing some bits, ignoring/deleting others. It's just a book. A bit like The Da Vinci COde, or any books regarding the Templar Knights, etc. Those who believe will find their answers, those who don't will find ways to debunk the theories.
the logic behind "hell must exist if you believe in heaven." the notion of hell, evil, goodness, morality, etc... as concepts to me is just ignorant. They seem to be inventions of man (or the church) that are outdated.
And everyone here uses the word "is" way too much around here, especially in regards to god and religion. I don't know what anything "is" I only know what them seem to be in my present plane of consciousness.
Stairway to Heaven/Highway to Hell, etc
of course looking back at that now is laughable
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
EXACTLY!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Though there is more evidence pointing one way rather than the other....
all depends on the individual's perception of "evidence".
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Charles Darwin is a scientific god.
Charles Darwin is a scientific dog.
they are 90% alike in DNA but 2 completely different sentences
agreed. watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83dPOX51ao
Actually... they are 84% alike in letters, which do not posess any DNA.
So. What is your point?
Hail, Hail!!!
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I think his point is, if I may, that how much dna we share is irrelevant. someone before mentioned we have similar dna to a dandelion or something like that, doesn't make us a flower. obviously, not a direct quote.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Which still... has no point. No one disputes that we are not the same species as our chimpanzee relatives... or that we share common DNA. Turns out... all living things share common DNA. It does not mean there is a Creator behind all of this or there isn't. We are left with the same question... is there a God or isn't there?
Hail, Hail!!!
yes...it would be easy and it would be logical
If a loving god wants you to follow him so that you can be "saved" then he would make his presence known by ALL....not just those that happen to be born into christian homes
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
evil is a man made construct.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
agreed...but we are definitely seeing a drop in those that claim to believe
people forget that Europe has a huge % of nonbelievers
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
agreed, Cate.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Funny that's what Jesus did and this is why so many people over so many generations continue to follow him