God... Christ... The Bible

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  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,298
    common-cuckoo-kaz.jpg
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

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  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    The universe and everything in it is inside of the box. Science and world religions search for the answers to universal and particular truths inside of the box. You look on the outside of the puzzle box to get the picture of how the contents on the inside fit together. God is outside of the box. The one true Christian God told us the universals so we wouldnt have to search for the universal and particular truths. We know that God created the heavens and the earth. We know that as men we sin and are separated from him but offered salvation through the sacrifice of Christ which ANYONE can accept. Man can try and piece together the puzzle by its own understanding but will eventually, in the end, see the outside of the box when it is finally revealed. By then it will be to late for it to even matter that he knows. There can only be one truth whether it be by science's definition, Buddah, Allah, or the God of Noah which I believe to be the one true God. There can only be one truth because they all contradict each other.

    Its like the example of several blind men in a room. One who represents science, one who represents islam, one who represents hinduism, and one who represents christianity. They dont know there is an elephant in the room which represents truth but they all reach out and grab a peice. The blind man of science grabs the trunk and says "its a snake". The man of islam grabs the tail and says "its a rope". The man of hinduism grabs the leg and says "its a tree". The blind christian grabs the ear and says "its a leaf." The Bible is the trainer telling the blind men "its a freakin elephant" and yet they still dont believe.

    Someone said that God hasnt spoke to people for centuries. God speaks through the Bible and the Holy Spirit still to this day. After the Israelites entered the holy land it had been prophecied that a King of Kings would be born through the lineage of King David and they waited for over 400 years before God even spoke to anyone. Then the news of the birth of Christ came. Still they found it hard to believe that a peasant could be the king of kings. Over a hundred times in the Bible when Christ speaks he begins with "Truely, Truely I say to you", or "I tell you the truth". On questioning by Pilate after his capture He proclaims "I came to witness to the truth". Everyone on the planet has been offered the Truth and knows about Jesus. Its our free will to accept it or reject it.


    Eddie that was just a wonderful xlnt post ! thank you.

    Godfather.
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    The universe and everything in it is inside of the box. Science and world religions search for the answers to universal and particular truths inside of the box. You look on the outside of the puzzle box to get the picture of how the contents on the inside fit together. God is outside of the box. The one true Christian God told us the universals so we wouldnt have to search for the universal and particular truths. We know that God created the heavens and the earth. We know that as men we sin and are separated from him but offered salvation through the sacrifice of Christ which ANYONE can accept.
    This is the attitude that really irks me about God arguments. It's like "Relax, God has it all figured out, so we dont have to worry our little heads about it". If that is so, why do we posess reason and an intellect? Did God give us those to ignore them? It's obviously all about faith, and he craves for us to believe in him. Why then does he fill the world with all kinds of stuff that supposedly bars us from that? (All powerful and all knowing, he IS that one responsible).

    I find the God view that he gave us our faculties for us to explore the world and experience, making a lot more sense. Which would mean that where realities and science crash with the old book, the new information should be an improvement as better understanding his creation. Not that I agree with there being a God like christianity envisions, but I find a lot more sense in that position

    As for what we know, we know very little of creation outside the old myth. Sin is the worst concept I can imagine as the guilt-tripping power-tool it is. We have a sense of right and wrong that roughly corresponds to actions that benefit the group = good and selfish act that hurt the group = bad. Not so unusual in social flock (tribal) animals like humans. It was not literally ordained by (a) God, but is attributed to whatever religion/deity that has ever been conceived. Interestingly enough, God or whatever always commands that life be lived the way it currently is being lived. (Or returning to that purity from the inevitable veering off course, since circumstances always change)
    There can only be one truth whether it be by science's definition, Buddah, Allah, or the God of Noah which I believe to be the one true God. There can only be one truth because they all contradict each other.
    Perhaps there can only be one truth, but the most likely answer is that none of the mentioned has got it right. What truth religion holds is seen in what all religions share: Sense of community, charity, striving for non-violent perfect society based on individual piety and morality. The abovementioned are just about tied on that one.

    Sorry if I come off harsh here, but you pushed all my buttons as I have grown up in an evangelical environment and always thought it was filled with intellectual cop-outs.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    We know that God created the heavens and the earth.

    No, "we" don't. You have faith that he did, but to refer to it as knowledge is false. The same can be said that the universe was created by a single molecule exploding into infinity. We don't KNOW that either of them is true for certain.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    I'm old school, God said and believe it.
    our love and faith in God is in our heart's and the way we live. life is truly a gift....what are you gonna do with your gift ?

    Godfather.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited January 2010
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    The universe and everything in it is inside of the box. Science and world religions search for the answers to universal and particular truths inside of the box. You look on the outside of the puzzle box to get the picture of how the contents on the inside fit together. God is outside of the box. The one true Christian God told us the universals so we wouldnt have to search for the universal and particular truths. We know that God created the heavens and the earth. We know that as men we sin and are separated from him but offered salvation through the sacrifice of Christ which ANYONE can accept. Man can try and piece together the puzzle by its own understanding but will eventually, in the end, see the outside of the box when it is finally revealed. By then it will be to late for it to even matter that he knows. There can only be one truth whether it be by science's definition, Buddah, Allah, or the God of Noah which I believe to be the one true God. There can only be one truth because they all contradict each other.

    Its like the example of several blind men in a room. One who represents science, one who represents islam, one who represents hinduism, and one who represents christianity. They dont know there is an elephant in the room which represents truth but they all reach out and grab a peice. The blind man of science grabs the trunk and says "its a snake". The man of islam grabs the tail and says "its a rope". The man of hinduism grabs the leg and says "its a tree". The blind christian grabs the ear and says "its a leaf." The Bible is the trainer telling the blind men "its a freakin elephant" and yet they still dont believe.

    Someone said that God hasnt spoke to people for centuries. God speaks through the Bible and the Holy Spirit still to this day. After the Israelites entered the holy land it had been prophecied that a King of Kings would be born through the lineage of King David and they waited for over 400 years before God even spoke to anyone. Then the news of the birth of Christ came. Still they found it hard to believe that a peasant could be the king of kings. Over a hundred times in the Bible when Christ speaks he begins with "Truely, Truely I say to you", or "I tell you the truth". On questioning by Pilate after his capture He proclaims "I came to witness to the truth". Everyone on the planet has been offered the Truth and knows about Jesus. Its our free will to accept it or reject it.
    ...
    A couple of things...
    First... regarding the Bible. Trust in it means you place your trust in the hands of the Roman Catholic Church. The ruling authorities of the church were the one to make the final edit. They were the ones whom decided which books are in, which are out. They were the ones who edited the final versions. And these people were and still are, the politicians of religion. There is great power in religion.
    Next, Truth. You say,
    "There can only be one truth whether it be by science's definition, Buddah, Allah, or the God of Noah which I believe to be the one true God. There can only be one truth because they all contradict each other."
    Which, is a true statement. That is the one truth I speak of when I refer to the 'Absolute' Truth. But you left one out... the truth that all are wrong... None Of The Above are correct.
    You find your truth in Christianity... so, obviously... Christianity is your truth. That is a Relative Truth... not the absolute truth. The same goes for the Muslims, Hindus, Jews and Aetheists... each has his own relative truth... even I have my own relative truth. And there is the possibility of them all getting it wrong. The difference here.. I seem to be the only one to admit... I may be wrong. I don't say, "I know the truth"... because the TRUTH is... I don't know.
    ...
    Side note: My problem with religion is it is exclusive, not inclusive. Religions pits themselves against each other because each claims to be the truth, which means everyone else is wrong.
    My belief is God is better than the religions created by men so they could plunge their banner into and claim Him as exclusively their own. I believe God loves and accepts everyone... even those who do not believe He exists. I believe He is greater than choosing one team and forsaking the others... that would make Him petty... and kind of a dick.
    Anyway... I believe God will not forsake me because i am not on the team that forsakes those who are not of their mindset. I think He'll forgive me for having all of these questions. But, I don't know for sure.
    Post edited by Cosmo on
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CJMST3K
    CJMST3K Posts: 9,722
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    We know that God created the heavens and the earth.

    We? What's this "we" shit.


    We know that fucking Muppets created the heavens and the earth.

    You cannot give me even one provable reason on why your statement is more accurate. And your hope that your statement is correct, does not make it correct.


    Piscrew.jpg


    ...praise be to Mrs Piggy.
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  • EddieLedBetter
    EddieLedBetter Posts: 360
    CJMST3K wrote:
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    We know that God created the heavens and the earth.

    We? What's this "we" shit.


    We know that fucking Muppets created the heavens and the earth.

    You cannot give me even one provable reason on why your statement is more accurate. And your hope that your statement is correct, does not make it correct.


    Piscrew.jpg


    ...praise be to Mrs Piggy.

    the we I refer to is Christ followers, which was started in the previous sentance.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    the we I refer to is Christ followers, which was started in the previous sentance.
    ...
    So... the followers of Christ "know"... the rest of us are fucked, right?
    ...
    Unless, of course, we all adapt your reasoning.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CJMST3K
    CJMST3K Posts: 9,722
    Cosmo wrote:
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    the we I refer to is Christ followers, which was started in the previous sentance.
    ...
    So... the followers of Christ "know"... the rest of us are fucked, right?




    Not necessarily Cosmo.

    Christ-followers "know" it.

    The rest of us are able to pursue truth based on logic, reason and facts.
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    CJMST3K wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    the we I refer to is Christ followers, which was started in the previous sentance.
    ...
    So... the followers of Christ "know"... the rest of us are fucked, right?




    Not necessarily Cosmo.

    Christ-followers "know" it.

    The rest of us are able to pursue truth based on logic, reason and facts.
    ...
    Thanx... for a minute there... I was certain I was going to burn in Hell.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,298
    and Jesus will be watching...
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Gern Blansten wrote:
    and Jesus will be watching...
    ...
    That's something I often wonder about... you know, God, Jesus, Santa Claus all watching what I do. Why someone would was to watch me take a shit or masturbate is beyond me.
    I mean, even I wouldn't want to watch me because i'm so damn boring. Their jobs must really suck.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,298
    Cosmo wrote:
    Gern Blansten wrote:
    and Jesus will be watching...
    ...
    That's something I often wonder about... you know, God, Jesus, Santa Claus all watching what I do. Why someone would was to watch me take a shit or masturbate is beyond me.
    I mean, even I wouldn't want to watch me because i'm so damn boring. Their jobs must really suck.

    yeah Jesus is a weird dude....he must like watching priests molest children too because damn that happens a lot.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • CJMST3K
    CJMST3K Posts: 9,722
    Gern Blansten wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    Gern Blansten wrote:
    and Jesus will be watching...
    ...
    That's something I often wonder about... you know, God, Jesus, Santa Claus all watching what I do. Why someone would was to watch me take a shit or masturbate is beyond me.
    I mean, even I wouldn't want to watch me because i'm so damn boring. Their jobs must really suck.

    yeah Jesus is a weird dude....he must like watching priests molest children too because damn that happens a lot.


    Haiti must have happened because he didn't like Avatar, and wanted something better to watch.
    ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you. :)
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  • EddieLedBetter
    EddieLedBetter Posts: 360
    To say there is no absolute truth or truth is relative in itself is a self-deprecating statement. Take some time to watch this debate.

    http://vimeo.com/1904911
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    edited January 2010
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    To say there is no absolute truth or truth is relative in itself is a self-deprecating statement. Take some time to watch this debate.

    http://vimeo.com/1904911
    ...
    No... I said there IS one absolute Truth out there. You claim to know it... I say you don't. You may believe you know the one (true) absolute truth... but, the truth is... you don't know... and I know you don't know. Yours is a belief... you believe it to be true, so... to you... it IS the truth. Your truth. Which is not mine. That makes your truth, a relative (subjective) truth.
    And just so we are clear, here... your truth is that the one way to God is through Jesus Christ. Am i correct?
    Post edited by Cosmo on
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,247
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    No... I said there IS one absolute Truth out there. You claim to know it... I say you don't. You may believe you know the one (true) absolute truth... but, the truth is... you don't know... and I know you don't know. Yours is a belief... you believe it to be true, so... to you... it IS the truth. Your truth. Which is not mine. That make your truth, a relative (subjective) truth.
    And just so we are clear, here... your truth is that the one way to God is through Jesus Christ. Am i correct?

    all i want is the truth, just gimme some truth...

    sorry cosmo, i just had to...

    i agree with your post by the way...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    all i want is the truth, just gimme some truth...

    sorry cosmo, i just had to...

    i agree with your post by the way...
    ...
    No need to apologize... it is quite fitting.
    All we really do want from our authorities is the truth. From our politicians and our priests... just give us the truth... not party lines or doctrine or dogma.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • markin ball
    markin ball Posts: 1,076
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    To say there is no absolute truth or truth is relative in itself is a self-deprecating statement. Take some time to watch this debate.

    http://vimeo.com/1904911

    I'm embarrassed for the human race that there is still even a debate. :roll:
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"

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