The biggest threat to the safety of americans after the fall of the nazi's and the cold war is not iran, iraq or afghanistan - it is itself. Most Americans have no idea how feared and loathed they are, and how their own actions/inaction has made it a pretty harsh place to live (at least the eastern half). Hope I never go back. I mean, most people think that the 'war' is for their own safe conduct = ridiculous.
Take Iran. Israel and the USA are leaders in exacting the tenets of nuclear non proliferation treatises from them. WTF? Both are nuclear powers. It's so glaringly hypocritical. The USA pumps huge dollars unconditonally to supporty Israel who MAY be committing war crimes in the middle east on your dollars. Hmmm, maybe that stirred up the 'bad guys', or maybe it was Eddie Vedder in Mansfield Mass. I doubt it, for all the storm troopers in the area I'd say things were prety much under control.
der I forgot to add WWII- it was probably important to get rid of hitler, yes. never quite understood what WWI had to do with us though.
that didn't have much to do with free speech though.
It's not about free speech alone. It's simply apart of the US Constitution and the defense and preservation of it as a whole. That was my point. Regardless, all armed forces take an oath to do so and will be called upon at any given time to do so in time of need where called upon. Simply an explanation of what the poster was referring to overall. Nothing more my friend.
With our current status in the world I am a skeptic of our political government though and that government is in control of the military and one reason after 12 years of service in the armed forces that I left. The political government does more to strip us of our rights than to protect them though. Patriot act is enough proof of that to name only a few actions taken by our government over the last 8 years.
Wait. Let me get this straight. You think Saddam prevented terrorism against the U.S?
Wow.
Let me ask you (or anyone with your views) an absolutely honest question that I would love to see a detailed and thoughtful reply to, no matter what is said in return.......
Do you think the United States has done anything -policy, history, engagements, economics, etc. - that has caused, promoted or accelerated terrorism to develop in the world?
Let me ask you (or anyone with your views) an absolutely honest question that I would love to see a detailed and thoughtful reply to, no matter what is said in return.......
Do you think the United States has done anything -policy, history, engagements, economics, etc. - that has caused, promoted or accelerated terrorism to develop in the world?
Well, yeah. I don't know that that's some big mystery unraveled.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Let me ask you (or anyone with your views) an absolutely honest question that I would love to see a detailed and thoughtful reply to, no matter what is said in return.......
Do you think the United States has done anything -policy, history, engagements, economics, etc. - that has caused, promoted or accelerated terrorism to develop in the world?
Yes!!!!
The Bush's close relationship with the Saudi arabian families is the number 2 reason for terrorsim agaisnt us. The Cole bombing, Kobar towers, and 9/11. All those acts where done by the saud's and friends
#1 reason
The support of Isreal Sate
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The Bush's close relationship with the Saudi arabian families is the number 2 reason for terrorsim agaisnt us. The Cole bombing, Kobar towers, and 9/11. All those acts where done by the saud's and friends
That is not as cut and dry as it seems.
our military bases in Saudi Arabia and continued exploitation and military action in the "holy land" is what pisses people off.
Besides, Pearl Jam tries to promote Peace. Make love not war
Peace.
everyone loves peace, but we don't live in Fantasyland. There are BAD people in this world that use terrorism and fear. They hurt others. Sometimes you need to stand up to bullys (Saddam, Hitler, Bin Laden etc.). And sometimes you get bloodied in the process. I love Eddie, his music, his passion, and his patriotism, but I disagree with alot of his views. I think it's a little hypocritical to be angry at censorship (Chicago show) and then censor the Marines for their recruiting "booth".
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E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
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That is not as cut and dry as it seems.
our military bases in Saudi Arabia and continued exploitation and military action in the "holy land" is what pisses people off.
That and our unilateral support of Israel
The government of Saudi Arabia wants us in the "Holy Land". The only people we are "pissing off" are the terrorists and extremists. It's similar to Northern Ireland. The IRA (a very small minority of the people) say England should get out, yet the majority of the "commonfolk" don't mind England's presence there.
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Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
everyone loves peace, but we don't live in Fantasyland. There are BAD people in this world that use terrorism and fear. They hurt others. Sometimes you need to stand up to bullys (Saddam, Hitler, Bin Laden etc.). And sometimes you get bloodied in the process. I love Eddie, his music, his passion, and his patriotism, but I disagree with alot of his views. I think it's a little hypocritical to be angry at censorship (Chicago show) and then censor the Marines for their recruiting "booth".
Well said
Many many wonderful shows, since day one.
Love ya Punkinfur
everyone loves peace, but we don't live in Fantasyland. There are BAD people in this world that use terrorism and fear. They hurt others. Sometimes you need to stand up to bullys (Saddam, Hitler, Bin Laden etc.). And sometimes you get bloodied in the process. I love Eddie, his music, his passion, and his patriotism, but I disagree with alot of his views. I think it's a little hypocritical to be angry at censorship (Chicago show) and then censor the Marines for their recruiting "booth".
Standing up to bullies was rhetoric used by Hitler and Bin Laden (against the powers of the west for imposing the economically/socially crippling treaty of Versailles on the German's and against the Israel/US movements against the various 'BAD' guys known as the Muslim world. Not to say much for either of those people who thought nothing of using violence against others to attain some product of their self delusions. Are you really that comfortable in calling yourself 'GOOD'? Whos the big bad global bully Iraq and Saddam? Thats just plain ridiculous and a little amazing to think you actually beleive that.
Only because we're filling their pockets with money.
That's what the media tells you.
Actually, in my opinion, the media tells us the exact opposite. Same as news that comes out of Iraq and Afganistan. You seldom hear of how are helping to educate girls that were forbidden by law to go to school etc. We hear a daily body count because it sells papers and gets better ratings.
Boston II 94 Boston II 06 Mansfield I 08 Mansfield II 08 Seattle I 09 Seattle II 09
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
last time i checked the was a pretty sizeable difference between censoring words and censoring actions. censored actions are usually referred to as... illegal.
not saying the marine booth was illegal, but wow is that out of context...
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How did Ed censor the marines? He expressed disagreement but it's not like he kicked them out.
They were there 6/28, and Ed made his statements, and then 6/30 they weren't there. If it walks like a duck .......... As I said, I'm a huge fan, but that doesn't mean I think he's perfect.
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Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
everyone loves peace, but we don't live in Fantasyland. There are BAD people in this world that use terrorism and fear. They hurt others. Sometimes you need to stand up to bullys (Saddam, Hitler, Bin Laden etc.). And sometimes you get bloodied in the process. I love Eddie, his music, his passion, and his patriotism, but I disagree with alot of his views. I think it's a little hypocritical to be angry at censorship (Chicago show) and then censor the Marines for their recruiting "booth".
Oh really? Fuck, I'm glad I don't live anywhere near USA - I mean, it's nice to stop by every now and then, but no way in hell would I ever move there when things are the way they are right now - and I'm not just talking about the war, freedom-issues, fucked up healthcare, education -system(s), etc. Sorry to bash your country, but thats the way it is. Fantasyland? Well, maybe it's hard for you to believe that people can actually live without wars, have democracy, freedom of speech and all that, shit - we are doing quite well here in Finland btw. If you need people like Saddam, Hitler, Bin Laden etc. to blame all the shit that's happening in the world, you really don't dig too deep in issues do you. And you think censorship is okay? Fine, but some people don't like it when their freedom is being restricted and controlled in the name of safety - SAFETY? Your own leaders are a much bigger threat to you americans than any middle eastern oil-country. But I guess it all comes down to what you value in life. Nothing personal, but if most americans are thinking like you - the future surely doesn't look too bright for you guys. Again, nothing personal - there's so much good, generous, intelligent people over there - it just makes me really sad to see your fine country falling down in flames, economically/peoples rights-wise/etc. I believe peace could work, but there's just too much fucking dumb people in this world.
Ed has every right to speak out his opinions, and I, personally admire him for that.
Stupid war that has wasted lives, money, and goodwill around the world, all because a bunch of fat government fucks had a brain-dead fantasy about controlling the Middle East's oil reserves.
Yet the troops are there to fight for our freedom and safety. They are people just like me and you, mostly courageously doing what they think is right and necessary, for little pay and less acknowledgement and support.
Our soldiers' lives are being wasted. Having a recruiting station is like saying "the Iraq war is great".
That's what I heard Eddie saying that night.
This is not hard to understand, but I admit I struggle with the paradox of the whole thing. Can you fully respect someone who is willing to die, orphan his children and bring tremendous sadness to his family for a cause that is sketchy at best. I mean, the deeds and life of the average soldier in the Middle East are difficult, life-threatening and arduous, deserving of respect for sure- but I cannot give unconditional respect for it because I so strongly question whether or not it is necessary...I think Eddie voices this alot, he does not see things in absolutes; he gives respect and love to Tomas Young, but he continues to call out the legitimacy of the war-
But maybe they should set up a marine recruiting stand and right next to it, set up a cigarette selling stand. John McCain could man the cigarette stand, and hope there are lots of Iranian PJ fans there that night.
I think Ed is probably very, very upset with what has happened with Thomas Young. He considers him a friend. And he sees that if this guy had not joined the military, his life would be fine right now. I don't know.
The main reason I opened this thread was to tell you that your subject is wrong. It should be "a more dangerous place for you and me." Not you and I. If you take out either the you or the I, the sentence still has to make sense, and the way it is written you would not say "a more dangerous place for I." I have seen and heard so many people doing this lately, it's like it's getting worse. People think they are being fancy and correct saying "I" instead of me and they just sound like morons. "Give your money to John or I." Stuff like that.
I know, I'm a dork.
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I didn't read through all the responses....I don't have time for 10 pages so this is just my opinion on it.
Even with being in the military for the past 13 years, his comments do not offend me...in fact, I agree with a lot of what he says regarding our government. Of course some things are off the deep end and there are a lot of political affiliated people he supports that I do not agree with but it's hard to agree with 100% of the opions of everyone.
I like to believe that Eddie (and the band) want what is best for this country and that is why he believes/says the things he does. Just like everyone else...the road to get there is where people differ.
I could get into a lot more about this but like I said, I have no time.
I have different perspectives than Eddie about some issues, but I think I could sit down and have an educated discusion with him about any subject....and nothing he would say could offend me.
Like a word misplaced...nothing said...what a waste
That is not as cut and dry as it seems.
our military bases in Saudi Arabia and continued exploitation and military action in the "holy land" is what pisses people off.
That and our unilateral support of Israel
Well as you might know our bases are gone now. PSAB was once the largest AF base on the planet. Billions of dollars was spent on the base then one day shorty after 9/11 it closed and everything mover to Qatar.
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Standing up to bullies was rhetoric used by Hitler and Bin Laden (against the powers of the west for imposing the economically/socially crippling treaty of Versailles on the German's and against the Israel/US movements against the various 'BAD' guys known as the Muslim world. Not to say much for either of those people who thought nothing of using violence against others to attain some product of their self delusions. Are you really that comfortable in calling yourself 'GOOD'? Whos the big bad global bully Iraq and Saddam? Thats just plain ridiculous and a little amazing to think you actually beleive that.
Iraq isn't a bully any more. Whose to say that unchecked we wouldn't have had another Hitler on our hands. That's where history helps us when we don't make the same mistakes. Unfortunately history didn't help Bush. He seems to be using the same "exit Strategy" we used in Vietnam. Anyway, with everything this country does in the way relief efforts whether they be foo, clothing shelter, education, money etc. I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM COMFORTABLY CALLING THIS COUNTRY "GOOD".
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Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
The main reason I opened this thread was to tell you that your subject is wrong. It should be "a more dangerous place for you and me." Not you and I. If you take out either the you or the I, the sentence still has to make sense, and the way it is written you would not say "a more dangerous place for I." I have seen and heard so many people doing this lately, it's like it's getting worse. People think they are being fancy and correct saying "I" instead of me and they just sound like morons. "Give your money to John or I." Stuff like that.
I know, I'm a dork.
haha....that annoys the piss out of me too!
Like a word misplaced...nothing said...what a waste
Well as you might know our bases are gone now. PSAB was once the largest AF base on the planet. Billions of dollars was spent on the base then one day shorty after 9/11 it closed and everything mover to Qatar.
Actually I was at PSAB in 2003....it didn't move to Qatar until 2004 or 2005. And the Saudi people there (it was a Saudi owned military installation) were extremely nice. It was the French military stationed there I didn't like....
But you're right, there are no US military bases in Saudi anymore....but Saudi - Qatar.....same thing.
Like a word misplaced...nothing said...what a waste
Comments
der I forgot to add WWII- it was probably important to get rid of hitler, yes. never quite understood what WWI had to do with us though.
Also, WWII was kind of important to keep the Japanese from bombing us.
for the least they could possibly do
that didn't have much to do with free speech though.
Huh?
for the least they could possibly do
It's not about free speech alone. It's simply apart of the US Constitution and the defense and preservation of it as a whole. That was my point. Regardless, all armed forces take an oath to do so and will be called upon at any given time to do so in time of need where called upon. Simply an explanation of what the poster was referring to overall. Nothing more my friend.
With our current status in the world I am a skeptic of our political government though and that government is in control of the military and one reason after 12 years of service in the armed forces that I left. The political government does more to strip us of our rights than to protect them though. Patriot act is enough proof of that to name only a few actions taken by our government over the last 8 years.
Let me ask you (or anyone with your views) an absolutely honest question that I would love to see a detailed and thoughtful reply to, no matter what is said in return.......
Do you think the United States has done anything -policy, history, engagements, economics, etc. - that has caused, promoted or accelerated terrorism to develop in the world?
Well, yeah. I don't know that that's some big mystery unraveled.
for the least they could possibly do
Yes!!!!
The Bush's close relationship with the Saudi arabian families is the number 2 reason for terrorsim agaisnt us. The Cole bombing, Kobar towers, and 9/11. All those acts where done by the saud's and friends
#1 reason
The support of Isreal Sate
Also dont forget the envolement of the CIA with Sadam to fight iran in the 80's
That is not as cut and dry as it seems.
our military bases in Saudi Arabia and continued exploitation and military action in the "holy land" is what pisses people off.
That and our unilateral support of Israel
everyone loves peace, but we don't live in Fantasyland. There are BAD people in this world that use terrorism and fear. They hurt others. Sometimes you need to stand up to bullys (Saddam, Hitler, Bin Laden etc.). And sometimes you get bloodied in the process. I love Eddie, his music, his passion, and his patriotism, but I disagree with alot of his views. I think it's a little hypocritical to be angry at censorship (Chicago show) and then censor the Marines for their recruiting "booth".
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
The government of Saudi Arabia wants us in the "Holy Land". The only people we are "pissing off" are the terrorists and extremists. It's similar to Northern Ireland. The IRA (a very small minority of the people) say England should get out, yet the majority of the "commonfolk" don't mind England's presence there.
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
That's what the media tells you.
Yeah, I just got this weird feeling that I can't be neutral anymore ...
for the least they could possibly do
Well said
Love ya Punkinfur
Standing up to bullies was rhetoric used by Hitler and Bin Laden (against the powers of the west for imposing the economically/socially crippling treaty of Versailles on the German's and against the Israel/US movements against the various 'BAD' guys known as the Muslim world. Not to say much for either of those people who thought nothing of using violence against others to attain some product of their self delusions. Are you really that comfortable in calling yourself 'GOOD'? Whos the big bad global bully Iraq and Saddam? Thats just plain ridiculous and a little amazing to think you actually beleive that.
Actually, in my opinion, the media tells us the exact opposite. Same as news that comes out of Iraq and Afganistan. You seldom hear of how are helping to educate girls that were forbidden by law to go to school etc. We hear a daily body count because it sells papers and gets better ratings.
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
I thought that he basically did. At the very least, they were barred from coming back the next night, according to folks here.
Either way, I don't care. It's his show he can do what he wants.
for the least they could possibly do
not saying the marine booth was illegal, but wow is that out of context...
They were there 6/28, and Ed made his statements, and then 6/30 they weren't there. If it walks like a duck .......... As I said, I'm a huge fan, but that doesn't mean I think he's perfect.
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
Oh really? Fuck, I'm glad I don't live anywhere near USA - I mean, it's nice to stop by every now and then, but no way in hell would I ever move there when things are the way they are right now - and I'm not just talking about the war, freedom-issues, fucked up healthcare, education -system(s), etc. Sorry to bash your country, but thats the way it is. Fantasyland? Well, maybe it's hard for you to believe that people can actually live without wars, have democracy, freedom of speech and all that, shit - we are doing quite well here in Finland btw. If you need people like Saddam, Hitler, Bin Laden etc. to blame all the shit that's happening in the world, you really don't dig too deep in issues do you. And you think censorship is okay? Fine, but some people don't like it when their freedom is being restricted and controlled in the name of safety - SAFETY? Your own leaders are a much bigger threat to you americans than any middle eastern oil-country. But I guess it all comes down to what you value in life. Nothing personal, but if most americans are thinking like you - the future surely doesn't look too bright for you guys. Again, nothing personal - there's so much good, generous, intelligent people over there - it just makes me really sad to see your fine country falling down in flames, economically/peoples rights-wise/etc. I believe peace could work, but there's just too much fucking dumb people in this world.
Ed has every right to speak out his opinions, and I, personally admire him for that.
Respectfully,
Anni
PS,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
Won't let the darkness swallow me.
This is not hard to understand, but I admit I struggle with the paradox of the whole thing. Can you fully respect someone who is willing to die, orphan his children and bring tremendous sadness to his family for a cause that is sketchy at best. I mean, the deeds and life of the average soldier in the Middle East are difficult, life-threatening and arduous, deserving of respect for sure- but I cannot give unconditional respect for it because I so strongly question whether or not it is necessary...I think Eddie voices this alot, he does not see things in absolutes; he gives respect and love to Tomas Young, but he continues to call out the legitimacy of the war-
But maybe they should set up a marine recruiting stand and right next to it, set up a cigarette selling stand. John McCain could man the cigarette stand, and hope there are lots of Iranian PJ fans there that night.
I think Ed is probably very, very upset with what has happened with Thomas Young. He considers him a friend. And he sees that if this guy had not joined the military, his life would be fine right now. I don't know.
The main reason I opened this thread was to tell you that your subject is wrong. It should be "a more dangerous place for you and me." Not you and I. If you take out either the you or the I, the sentence still has to make sense, and the way it is written you would not say "a more dangerous place for I." I have seen and heard so many people doing this lately, it's like it's getting worse. People think they are being fancy and correct saying "I" instead of me and they just sound like morons. "Give your money to John or I." Stuff like that.
I know, I'm a dork.
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Even with being in the military for the past 13 years, his comments do not offend me...in fact, I agree with a lot of what he says regarding our government. Of course some things are off the deep end and there are a lot of political affiliated people he supports that I do not agree with but it's hard to agree with 100% of the opions of everyone.
I like to believe that Eddie (and the band) want what is best for this country and that is why he believes/says the things he does. Just like everyone else...the road to get there is where people differ.
I could get into a lot more about this but like I said, I have no time.
I have different perspectives than Eddie about some issues, but I think I could sit down and have an educated discusion with him about any subject....and nothing he would say could offend me.
Well as you might know our bases are gone now. PSAB was once the largest AF base on the planet. Billions of dollars was spent on the base then one day shorty after 9/11 it closed and everything mover to Qatar.
Iraq isn't a bully any more. Whose to say that unchecked we wouldn't have had another Hitler on our hands. That's where history helps us when we don't make the same mistakes. Unfortunately history didn't help Bush. He seems to be using the same "exit Strategy" we used in Vietnam. Anyway, with everything this country does in the way relief efforts whether they be foo, clothing shelter, education, money etc. I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM COMFORTABLY CALLING THIS COUNTRY "GOOD".
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
But you're right, there are no US military bases in Saudi anymore....but Saudi - Qatar.....same thing.