Immigration

Go Beavers said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

Maybe this has become more common, but expressing concerns that may occur are not the same as them actually frequently occurring. From what I've read and seen so far, they're sticking to the lists of names they have and also picking up people in proximity that they encounter who are undocumented. I don't support people acting like assholes and stomping on civil rights to accomplish this. 

Any news on the arrests of employers who hire illegals? 

Merkin Baller said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

Maybe this has become more common, but expressing concerns that may occur are not the same as them actually frequently occurring. From what I've read and seen so far, they're sticking to the lists of names they have and also picking up people in proximity that they encounter who are undocumented. I don't support people acting like assholes and stomping on civil rights to accomplish this. 

Is asking a person to prove their citizenship not stomping on their civil rights? 

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

Maybe this has become more common, but expressing concerns that may occur are not the same as them actually frequently occurring. From what I've read and seen so far, they're sticking to the lists of names they have and also picking up people in proximity that they encounter who are undocumented. I don't support people acting like assholes and stomping on civil rights to accomplish this. 

Any news on the arrests of employers who hire illegals? 

No, unfortunately no political party seems to want to take up that issue. That's an all parties problem and isn't anything new. Biden and Obama never made that a priority either.

cincybearcat said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

Maybe this has become more common, but expressing concerns that may occur are not the same as them actually frequently occurring. From what I've read and seen so far, they're sticking to the lists of names they have and also picking up people in proximity that they encounter who are undocumented. I don't support people acting like assholes and stomping on civil rights to accomplish this. 

Any news on the arrests of employers who hire illegals? 

No, unfortunately no political party seems to want to take up that issue. That's an all parties problem and isn't anything new. Biden and Obama never made that a priority either.

No news on arrests of employers that hired illegals or the politicians that invited them to their city as a sanctuary knowing they were illegal either...weird I know.

tbergs said:

How stupid does this look?

Is Kristi going to help them put down migrant dogs (if they all haven't been eaten)?

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

differentiate the costs between legal migrants and undocumented. services overlap, do they not? where those funds come from to begin with? property taxes?  regardless of status, rent or mortgage ownership would account for at least a good portion of this funding. so in effect unless migrants of whatever status live in a tent or other nonfixed abode they are in fact contributing to these services.

I didn't say they don't contribute. I said they use them at a higher rate when compared to others.
Schools offer free food below a certain income. Almost every school is going to have language services. Many schools and districts with a higher ELL population will have 2 teachers in classrooms, one a language specialist and one the content teacher. No services are denied a student based on their legal status. And I am not saying they should be. But, I am saying lets recognize that a higher percentage of students who are of illegal immigration status fall into the categories that require these extra services and drive up the cost of education. 

then lay out the actual numbers of these students vs the citizen student. by average or percentage. to hear you tell it these schools are overrun with migrant children far surpassing the citizen student population.  Frankly, I dont see it based on the kids waiting at the neighborhood bus stop locations.  ot those in walking distance to this immersion school near me.

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

differentiate the costs between legal migrants and undocumented. services overlap, do they not? where those funds come from to begin with? property taxes?  regardless of status, rent or mortgage ownership would account for at least a good portion of this funding. so in effect unless migrants of whatever status live in a tent or other nonfixed abode they are in fact contributing to these services.

I didn't say they don't contribute. I said they use them at a higher rate when compared to others.
Schools offer free food below a certain income. Almost every school is going to have language services. Many schools and districts with a higher ELL population will have 2 teachers in classrooms, one a language specialist and one the content teacher. No services are denied a student based on their legal status. And I am not saying they should be. But, I am saying lets recognize that a higher percentage of students who are of illegal immigration status fall into the categories that require these extra services and drive up the cost of education. 

then lay out the actual numbers of these students vs the citizen student. by average or percentage. to hear you tell it these schools are overrun with migrant children far surpassing the citizen student population.  Frankly, I dont see it based on the kids waiting at the neighborhood bus stop locations.  ot those in walking distance to this immersion school near me.

Where did I say anything was being overrun?
I said specialized language services, as well as other services provided at schools, can get expensive, and illegal immigrant children use many of those services (such as language support) at a higher rate. Never mentioned anything being overrun. 
It costs a lot more money to educate a child who doesn't speak English.

and those services are also in place for documented migrant children. and the general idea being long term presence in this country, the kids will pick up english. fairly quickly as children seem better learning orher languages than adults do.

so return on investment. worth it. wifes kids are grown. she still pays for education out of property taxes. I do as well out of payroll given where I live. I have no children.  money well spent as long as it goes to actualc hildren trying to learn and not bureaucratic bullshit admin costs.

Merkin Baller said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

differentiate the costs between legal migrants and undocumented. services overlap, do they not? where those funds come from to begin with? property taxes?  regardless of status, rent or mortgage ownership would account for at least a good portion of this funding. so in effect unless migrants of whatever status live in a tent or other nonfixed abode they are in fact contributing to these services.

I didn't say they don't contribute. I said they use them at a higher rate when compared to others.
Schools offer free food below a certain income. Almost every school is going to have language services. Many schools and districts with a higher ELL population will have 2 teachers in classrooms, one a language specialist and one the content teacher. No services are denied a student based on their legal status. And I am not saying they should be. But, I am saying lets recognize that a higher percentage of students who are of illegal immigration status fall into the categories that require these extra services and drive up the cost of education. 

then lay out the actual numbers of these students vs the citizen student. by average or percentage. to hear you tell it these schools are overrun with migrant children far surpassing the citizen student population.  Frankly, I dont see it based on the kids waiting at the neighborhood bus stop locations.  ot those in walking distance to this immersion school near me.

Where did I say anything was being overrun?
I said specialized language services, as well as other services provided at schools, can get expensive, and illegal immigrant children use many of those services (such as language support) at a higher rate. Never mentioned anything being overrun. 
It costs a lot more money to educate a child who doesn't speak English.

and those services are also in place for documented migrant children. and the general idea being long term presence in this country, the kids will pick up english. fairly quickly as children seem better learning orher languages than adults do.

so return on investment. worth it. wifes kids are grown. she still pays for education out of property taxes. I do as well out of payroll given where I live. I have no children.  money well spent as long as it goes to actualc hildren trying to learn and not bureaucratic bullshit admin costs.

The fear lies in that immigrant children catch up to and pass native born in education attainment.

Can't have that now.

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

differentiate the costs between legal migrants and undocumented. services overlap, do they not? where those funds come from to begin with? property taxes?  regardless of status, rent or mortgage ownership would account for at least a good portion of this funding. so in effect unless migrants of whatever status live in a tent or other nonfixed abode they are in fact contributing to these services.

I didn't say they don't contribute. I said they use them at a higher rate when compared to others.
Schools offer free food below a certain income. Almost every school is going to have language services. Many schools and districts with a higher ELL population will have 2 teachers in classrooms, one a language specialist and one the content teacher. No services are denied a student based on their legal status. And I am not saying they should be. But, I am saying lets recognize that a higher percentage of students who are of illegal immigration status fall into the categories that require these extra services and drive up the cost of education. 

then lay out the actual numbers of these students vs the citizen student. by average or percentage. to hear you tell it these schools are overrun with migrant children far surpassing the citizen student population.  Frankly, I dont see it based on the kids waiting at the neighborhood bus stop locations.  ot those in walking distance to this immersion school near me.

Where did I say anything was being overrun?
I said specialized language services, as well as other services provided at schools, can get expensive, and illegal immigrant children use many of those services (such as language support) at a higher rate. Never mentioned anything being overrun. 
It costs a lot more money to educate a child who doesn't speak English.

and those services are also in place for documented migrant children. and the general idea being long term presence in this country, the kids will pick up english. fairly quickly as children seem better learning orher languages than adults do.

so return on investment. worth it. wifes kids are grown. she still pays for education out of property taxes. I do as well out of payroll given where I live. I have no children.  money well spent as long as it goes to actual  children trying to learn and not bureaucratic bullshit admin costs.

Again, none of that is anything I disputed. You seem to be missing the point. I said we spend a lot more on students of illegal immigration status than most who are here legally. Can you give me one example of another country that spends more on illegal immigrants than citizens/legal residents? I can't.

Illegal immigrants use those resources at a much higher rate. So the amount of money spent per student is higher if you compare legal to non-legal status.

I am not saying only illegals use those services. A lot of people di. Or that it doesn't benefit society as a whole or that it isn;t a good return on investment. All those things are true.
But can you give me an example of another country that provides as many services to illegal immigrants as we do? I've asked that 3 times and can't get an answer. Because we all know the answer, so the only response is to take my comments out of context and focus on things I never said.