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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,609
    I mean, we have to separate kids from parents if the parent is convicted of, say, murder, and has to go to prison. So technically it's true that "never" isn't spot on.

    But in the context we're talking about; parents here due to their misdemeanor of crossing illegally? I'm going to need a better example than "sometimes we gotta."
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,752

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,305
    OnWis97 said:
    I mean, we have to separate kids from parents if the parent is convicted of, say, murder, and has to go to prison. So technically it's true that "never" isn't spot on.

    But in the context we're talking about; parents here due to their misdemeanor of crossing illegally? I'm going to need a better example than "sometimes we gotta."
    civil infraction. not criminal.

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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    OnWis97 said:
    I mean, we have to separate kids from parents if the parent is convicted of, say, murder, and has to go to prison. So technically it's true that "never" isn't spot on.

    But in the context we're talking about; parents here due to their misdemeanor of crossing illegally? I'm going to need a better example than "sometimes we gotta."
    I do love AI...

    hippiemom = goodness
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,496
    We literally argue about anything, don’t we? 
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    Truth be told, there isn't enough in that video to even know what all went on or happened.  And I do not think they are leaving kids alone, which they wouldn't do for murderers either.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,609
    edited January 31
    Children of murderers get to visit their parents in prison. Parents in this situation or the one you AI'd tend to know where their children are and vice versa.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    edited January 31
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,752
    edited January 31
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  

    I think we're on the same page that we need an easier path to citizenship... 
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,609
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    Actually the more I look it looks like there's no choice but to separate. It's tragic but aside from sending them away together (is this an option?) or just letting everyone in if they happen to have children, you cannot run them through the system side-by-side.

    That said, I don't have the impression that it's particularly well-run from the standpoint of actually knowing what kids go with what parents and I suspect many will never see each other again. Tracking should be taken at least as seriously as a lot of more mundane shit that lesser government units track.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    OnWis97 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    Actually the more I look it looks like there's no choice but to separate. It's tragic but aside from sending them away together (is this an option?) or just letting everyone in if they happen to have children, you cannot run them through the system side-by-side.

    That said, I don't have the impression that it's particularly well-run from the standpoint of actually knowing what kids go with what parents and I suspect many will never see each other again. Tracking should be taken at least as seriously as a lot of more mundane shit that lesser government units track.
    100% on the tracking, it should be fool proof, and what they have been doing is embarrassing.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,305
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)

    civil procedure is way different than criminal procedure.

    something called due process? by court order?

    IDK. read that somewhere once I think.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,305


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    How does your suggestion of due process stop the separation of parent and child during the arrest process?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,305
    so to inderstand, you're coming from they have no rights under our constitutional system that makes very few distinctions between citizens and non-citizens.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,752
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)
    Marijuana laws, where it's still illegal, for starters. (excluding serious offenses like OUI, etc) 

    Immigration needs to be fixed, I'm not refuting that, but people whose only offense is being undocumented wouldn't be kicked out. If people want to come here and work and raise their families, what's the problem? Get them on the books & paying taxes. If they don't want to do that, then sure, throw them out.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,986
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)
    Marijuana laws, where it's still illegal, for starters. (excluding serious offenses like OUI, etc) 

    Immigration needs to be fixed, I'm not refuting that, but people whose only offense is being undocumented wouldn't be kicked out. If people want to come here and work and raise their families, what's the problem? Get them on the books & paying taxes. If they don't want to do that, then sure, throw them out.
    They’re already paying taxes in one form or another.
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  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,752
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    cincybearcat said:
    I mean - what would you do then?  If you were in charge.  And you identified someone in the country illegally and they had a child....what would you do?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding here...
    If I were in charge, I wouldn't be kicking people out if their sole offense was being undocumented.  
    Good to know.  What other laws wouldn't you enforce?  ;)
    Marijuana laws, where it's still illegal, for starters. (excluding serious offenses like OUI, etc) 

    Immigration needs to be fixed, I'm not refuting that, but people whose only offense is being undocumented wouldn't be kicked out. If people want to come here and work and raise their families, what's the problem? Get them on the books & paying taxes. If they don't want to do that, then sure, throw them out.
    They’re already paying taxes in one form or another.
    I'm well aware. 

    That doesn't mean the system doesn't need to be fixed. 
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,809
    mickeyrat said:
    so to inderstand, you're coming from they have no rights under our constitutional system that makes very few distinctions between citizens and non-citizens.
    Where did I say that? 

    I understand that the constitution does not refer to citizens, only people in the USA. So they should have due process, which means after arrested and detained, bond hearing, legal representation, a court hearing.  In most cases anyhow
    hippiemom = goodness
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