European Tour Sales = Desaster

pdalowsky · April 2024

drfox said:

Zen23 said:

You're not going to tell me that Green Day, the Foo Fighters, even Beyoncé or Coldplay make a loss on their tours because they sell good tickets for well under €150 and tickets in the upper tier for under €100. That doesn't explain at all why Pearl Jam came up with the idea of charging a standard ticket price of €175. A ticket price that had to be reduced by Eventim to €125 for the upper tier on the first day of pre-sales after less than 10 hours. Does that suddenly mean that Pearl Jam are making a loss with their Berlin concerts? What nonsense.

The only logic I can think of is that tours have a combination of fixed and variable costs. Fixed costs will be things like transportation of equipment and merch from the US etc. Variable costs depend on the number of shows. They have fewer concerts to spread the fixed costs over with only playing 9 Euro dates v’s 30-40 dates for the vast majority of similar bands. If they had say 17-18 Euro concerts as normal, the fixed costs per concert would be half of this year. I do think their relative lack of touring contributed to the cost issue

This definitely makes sense. Foo Fighters do HUGE tours, PJ come and play 10-14 shows and go home. Thats not a new thing and it appears to be the thing that keeps them energised and compulsive to watch.

My cousin has booked 6 foo shows in June, he told me that every show will be the same, including most of the on stage banter. Whilst it clearly works as their fanbase is staggeringly large, it would bore me to tears. So keeping these guys fresh and interested in doing shorter tours seems to be the order of the day, and naturally that means their costs will be higher.

Even K of Leon - they are playing 9 shows in the UK/Ireland in total.......thats a lot of dates to spread the buses over etc.

Zen23 · April 2024

At the same time as this interview, Ticketmaster has removed the entire rear section of the Palau Sant Jordi from sale for the second evening in Barcelona. Yesterday, almost all the seats in these now gray areas were still available. Hardly anything has sold here. Either they are preparing a massive price reduction or they are leaving these areas out completely until they can at least sell a few tickets in the side areas. But as long as prices in level 2 remain at 165 euros, not much will change here either.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021252/uploads/editor/a6/y8mc9kztpwi7.png

axeljohan · April 2024

Okay, so let’s assume they need those prices to break even including their „salary“. Might be true or not.

but what about the argument that viagogo is more responsible for dynamic pricing than TM and the artists? Tickets were sold at the secondary market at higher prices forever. But nowadays it is a choice by TM and the artists to be part of that system by using dynamic pricing. How is that not the responsibility of TM and the artists?

Indifference · April 2024

JackD. said:

They are definitely lacking some scale effects due to their limited touring per region but Ed arguments are still questionable. 175€ are not necessary to break even. Their own high paycheck and the greed of Live Nation and Ticketmaster are the reason. Not the pandemic or inflated costs.

On the other hand, Ed probably thinks his arguments are true because that‘s what his management told him. I doubt he has a look at the tour‘s business case. The band is not to blame. Only maybe for not looking deeper into it.

I think this is a spot on assessment.

marumaruko · April 2024

axeljohan said:

pjl44 said:

Great answers

Well, according to Ed, they have to charge 170+ Euros and use dynamic pricing in order to not make losses from the tour. And viagogo is more responsible for the high ticket prices than the band or ticketmaster.

i think Bruce‘s approach (we charge that much because people are paying it) is more honest.

I've read the SZ interview this morning and I'm a little bit confused to be honest.
Do I know that the Pearl Jam live production is bigger than of many other rock bands? Yes, clearly. More touring members, relying on more known people instead of local touring staff, even more members on stage (Thanks Josh, jk, I think you are awesome).

But other than that, I saw the Canadian band Pup for 30 Euro in Germany the last time around. I saw Modest Mouse for 60 Euro.
This year I guess I will truly have to expect Tool-like visuals to justify the price internally.
But also don't wanna continue the nagging. I'm looking forward and I'll see on the day what they have in store for us.

maximumlawman · April 2024

Indifference said:

JackD. said:

They are definitely lacking some scale effects due to their limited touring per region but Ed arguments are still questionable. 175€ are not necessary to break even. Their own high paycheck and the greed of Live Nation and Ticketmaster are the reason. Not the pandemic or inflated costs.

On the other hand, Ed probably thinks his arguments are true because that‘s what his management told him. I doubt he has a look at the tour‘s business case. The band is not to blame. Only maybe for not looking deeper into it.

I think this is a spot on assessment.

After reading the whole interview, this is also my impression: the fact that European fans feel hit hard by the new ticket-pricing-policy does not seem to affect him much. Talking about a boat on the river Thames as a metaphor for a band and comparing PJ’s to Taylor Swift’s audience is more fun.

pdalowsky · April 2024

marumaruko said:

axeljohan said:

pjl44 said:

Great answers

Well, according to Ed, they have to charge 170+ Euros and use dynamic pricing in order to not make losses from the tour. And viagogo is more responsible for the high ticket prices than the band or ticketmaster.

i think Bruce‘s approach (we charge that much because people are paying it) is more honest.

I've read the SZ interview this morning and I'm a little bit confused to be honest.
Do I know that the Pearl Jam live production is bigger than of many other rock bands? Yes, clearly. More touring members, relying on more known people instead of local touring staff, even more members on stage (Thanks Josh, jk, I think you are awesome).

But other than that, I saw the Canadian band Pup for 30 Euro in Germany the last time around. I saw Modest Mouse for 60 Euro.
This year I guess I will truly have to expect Tool-like visuals to justify the price internally.
But also don't wanna continue the nagging. I'm looking forward and I'll see on the day what they have in store for us.

I do understand that PJ also do like to look after their touring team very well. They could well be on retainer all year and only tour a few months? That comes at a good cost i am sure, but they know the value their team bring to the table and choose to reward them well and appreciate them. I think that is a very very positive thing.

Zen23 · April 2024

I would have expected the journalist - without annoying Mr. Vedder too much with the ticket story - to ask at least a third elementary question based on this. Namely:

After being used to selling out cities like Barcelona, Berlin or Amsterdam within hours, how do you feel about the discussion about the extreme rise in ticket prices when you look at the European sales figures?

And then I would have shown him a seating chart from Barcelona or London. Like this.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021252/uploads/editor/lm/bxgvbao56sve.png

just_one · April 2024

Zen23 said:

I would have expected the journalist - without annoying Mr. Vedder too much with the ticket story - to ask at least a third elementary question based on this. Namely:

After being used to selling out cities like Barcelona, Berlin or Amsterdam within hours, how do you feel about the discussion about the extreme rise in ticket prices when you look at the European sales figures?

And then I would have shown him a seating chart from Barcelona or London. Like this.

barcelona in 2018 was not sold out in hours.

pdalowsky · April 2024

Zen23 said:

I would have expected the journalist - without annoying Mr. Vedder too much with the ticket story - to ask at least a third elementary question based on this. Namely:

After being used to selling out cities like Barcelona, Berlin or Amsterdam within hours, how do you feel about the discussion about the extreme rise in ticket prices when you look at the European sales figures?

And then I would have shown him a seating chart from Barcelona or London. Like this.

I'm sure the journalist wasn't looking to piss Ed off.......or get overtly aggressive. He asked the questions, and Ed gave his understanding and take on that.

I am not even sure that they will be that aware of the sales at this point, except to the point where additional shows (if they were planned) were not added. I am sure there is some notion also that the new album will ultimately bring in new ticket sales also.

I for one cannot wait to hear these new tunes live

just_one · April 2024

Zen23 said:

I would have expected the journalist - without annoying Mr. Vedder too much with the ticket story - to ask at least a third elementary question based on this. Namely:

After being used to selling out cities like Barcelona, Berlin or Amsterdam within hours, how do you feel about the discussion about the extreme rise in ticket prices when you look at the European sales figures?

And then I would have shown him a seating chart from Barcelona or London. Like this.

thank god u are not a journalist , you really dont know how to interview someone.

you are not suppose to angry the person you are interviewing , the journlist in question was very polite as one should be when he asked those questions.

not something you would do

Zen23 · April 2024

Your previous comments over the past few weeks have already shown that you have a fundamental problem with my contributions here in the forum. I have ignored them as far as I could. Other forum members have also expressed their discomfort with some of your comments. With your latest post, however, you have really fucked up. How do you know that my profession is not journalism? In other words, what is your profession that allows you to judge how journalists should behave? And therefore also how I have to behave?

marumaruko · April 2024

Zen23 said:

Your previous comments over the past few weeks have already shown that you have a fundamental problem with my contributions here in the forum. I have ignored them as far as I could. Other forum members have also expressed their discomfort with some of your comments. With your latest post, however, you have really fucked up. How do you know that my profession is not journalism? In other words, what is your profession that allows you to judge how journalists should behave? And therefore also how I have to behave?

I agree with the other takes as showing him apparent proof of their failure in ticketing comes off more as rubbing it in than to create an earnest and open discourse. I wouldn't push any person I'm interviewing into a corner either. Such interviews end very quickly imo.
Ed's answers also show that he and the band aren't very deeply involved in the whole process and can't really answer any better.

bootlegger10 · April 2024

marumaruko said:

Zen23 said:

Your previous comments over the past few weeks have already shown that you have a fundamental problem with my contributions here in the forum. I have ignored them as far as I could. Other forum members have also expressed their discomfort with some of your comments. With your latest post, however, you have really fucked up. How do you know that my profession is not journalism? In other words, what is your profession that allows you to judge how journalists should behave? And therefore also how I have to behave?

I agree with the other takes as showing him apparent proof of their failure in ticketing comes off more as rubbing it in than to create an earnest and open discourse. I wouldn't push any person I'm interviewing into a corner either. Such interviews end very quickly imo.
Ed's answers also show that he and the band aren't very deeply involved in the whole process and can't really answer any better.

I'd be surprised that the "CEO" of the band doesn't deeply understand their biggest revenue and expense generator.

Just buy the tickets or not. It is a simple determination. They announce concerts and fees, and we decide if we want to go.

just_one · April 2024

Zen23 said:

Your previous comments over the past few weeks have already shown that you have a fundamental problem with my contributions here in the forum. I have ignored them as far as I could. Other forum members have also expressed their discomfort with some of your comments. With your latest post, however, you have really fucked up. How do you know that my profession is not journalism? In other words, what is your profession that allows you to judge how journalists should behave? And therefore also how I have to behave?

are you talking about me? if so i fail to see how my comments seem to cause disconfort to you , if they did im sorry. u seem to be fighting a losing battle trying to argue why tickets prices are so expensive in europe and while I DO agree with you there is nothing no one can do about it , either you can afford to see them at these prices or you cant. its just as simple as that. also if you didnt like to be corrected (in the case of barcelona 2018 not sold out in the matter of hours that on you , its the truth , oh and btw berlin 2022 also didnt sold out in a matter of hours, you could find tickets available a couple months before, i know because i was the fence of buying to either berlin or vienna in early 2022, ended up buying vienna and the show was cancelled unfortunally)

as far as other members expressing the same thing i´ve already apologize if i shared to much about how i didnt wanted PJ to play portugal at the date they are playing (this is the only time someone actually said something so i assume thats what u are reffering to)

in the matter of how to judge how journalists should behave , i dont have to be a journlist to know good manners , the way the german journalist asked ed about the prices is the right one. one thing you always have to be is polite in how you ask someone anything , not bombarding them with pictures , showing your discontent about in this case ticket prices in a angry manner like you suggested. you can never make your guest/interviewer unconfortable , if you the interview will suck.

Zen23 · April 2024

I wouldn't have done that either. It's one thing to sit here comfortably in front of the computer and provocatively shout "show him the floor plan of Barcelona". And to have the balls to actually do it and annoy him. But you could have approached it objectively and professionally and still addressed him in a friendly and intelligent way about the sales figures in Europe. Because it's a direct result of the high ticket prices. Particularly in view of the fact that the Süddeutsche Zeitung, in which the interview appeared, took a very critical look at this issue a few weeks ago.

I'm a huge Pearl Jam fan. They are my favorite band. By far. But that doesn't automatically mean that I support everything they do and everything they say in interviews without questioning it. When Mr. Vedder says that tickets have to cost 175 euros to make it worthwhile to go on tour and that ticket prices of up to 2000 dollars in official sales are the fault of the secondary market and not Ticketmaster or the band, then that can be critically questioned.

But you can also sit comfortably at home and gloss over these decisions and statements as well as the shitty sales figures, especially for Barcelona, and draw the conclusion day after day that this is the guarantee for an unforgettable evening and Katowice 2.0. As if this has anything to do with critical scrutiny or even journalistic work. Instead, it is pure fanboy drivel.

And then I have to listen to something about myself as a person and my behavior from someone who doesn't know me. And that's exactly why you were asked "Why be like this?" by another member in response to one of your comments a few days ago.

mikesbri · April 2024

Looks like ticketmaster/livenation changed settings for some dates and can't see what seats are actually available anymore.

Benz · April 2024

I think it is complete nonsense that the ticket prices have to be that high to cover their costs.
I have just seen Dave Matthews Band in Berlin for 80€ and have tickets for Dua Lipa in Berlin for 90€ GA.
I cannot believe that those acts will not have their costs covered.

SHZA · April 2024

drfox said:

Zen23 said:

You're not going to tell me that Green Day, the Foo Fighters, even Beyoncé or Coldplay make a loss on their tours because they sell good tickets for well under €150 and tickets in the upper tier for under €100. That doesn't explain at all why Pearl Jam came up with the idea of charging a standard ticket price of €175. A ticket price that had to be reduced by Eventim to €125 for the upper tier on the first day of pre-sales after less than 10 hours. Does that suddenly mean that Pearl Jam are making a loss with their Berlin concerts? What nonsense.

The only logic I can think of is that tours have a combination of fixed and variable costs. Fixed costs will be things like transportation of equipment and merch from the US etc. Variable costs depend on the number of shows. They have fewer concerts to spread the fixed costs over with only playing 9 Euro dates v’s 30-40 dates for the vast majority of similar bands. If they had say 17-18 Euro concerts as normal, the fixed costs per concert would be half of this year. I do think their relative lack of touring contributed to the cost issue

That makes sense. Some other artists also sell VIP packages at inflated prices which could facilitate lower standard pricing on other seats.

marumaruko · April 2024

SHZA said:

drfox said:

Zen23 said:

You're not going to tell me that Green Day, the Foo Fighters, even Beyoncé or Coldplay make a loss on their tours because they sell good tickets for well under €150 and tickets in the upper tier for under €100. That doesn't explain at all why Pearl Jam came up with the idea of charging a standard ticket price of €175. A ticket price that had to be reduced by Eventim to €125 for the upper tier on the first day of pre-sales after less than 10 hours. Does that suddenly mean that Pearl Jam are making a loss with their Berlin concerts? What nonsense.

The only logic I can think of is that tours have a combination of fixed and variable costs. Fixed costs will be things like transportation of equipment and merch from the US etc. Variable costs depend on the number of shows. They have fewer concerts to spread the fixed costs over with only playing 9 Euro dates v’s 30-40 dates for the vast majority of similar bands. If they had say 17-18 Euro concerts as normal, the fixed costs per concert would be half of this year. I do think their relative lack of touring contributed to the cost issue

That makes sense. Some other artists also sell VIP packages at inflated prices which could facilitate lower standard pricing on other seats.

The U2 Sphere model. I'm a fan of that. Then people can still decide whether they want to spend a large amount for the best seats and spend significantly less for regular seats. This would just mean that Pearl Jam would have to end this specific fanclub benefit.
Leads to a different topic, but I would generally overhaul the 10C benefits, and for example include 1-2 10C specific shows per country on each tour to balance higher ticket pricing for general dates. With only 10C in the house, these could be come truly legendary gigs.

bootlegger10 said:

marumaruko said:
Zen23 said:
Your previous comments over the past few weeks have already shown that you have a fundamental problem with my contributions here in the forum. I have ignored them as far as I could. Other forum members have also expressed their discomfort with some of your comments. With your latest post, however, you have really fucked up. How do you know that my profession is not journalism? In other words, what is your profession that allows you to judge how journalists should behave? And therefore also how I have to behave?
I agree with the other takes as showing him apparent proof of their failure in ticketing comes off more as rubbing it in than to create an earnest and open discourse. I wouldn't push any person I'm interviewing into a corner either. Such interviews end very quickly imo.
Ed's answers also show that he and the band aren't very deeply involved in the whole process and can't really answer any better.

Your quote: "I'd be surprised that the "CEO" of the band doesn't deeply understand their biggest revenue and expense generator.

Just buy the tickets or not. It is a simple determination. They announce concerts and fees, and we decide if we want to go."

Hm just like in 1995 when they tried to manage a whole tour by themselves and lost out on millions in revenue and profits. I love this band and I believe that everyone in the band is extremely intelligent, and especially on an emotional level and thank god for that!
But it seems they are not the most well versed in terms on how to manage a business and that's fine. That's what they have a management for. I'm sure they speak in principal about numbers, but not in miniscule details.

European Tour Sales = Desaster

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