Viruses / Vaccines

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  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    PJNB said:
    curmudgeoness said:
    About today's masking reversal:


    <<Top health officials, who were debating the new masking guidance on Monday afternoon, said the game-changer was new data showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant carry the same viral load as unvaccinated people who are infected, according to three people familiar with the data. Vaccinated people are unlikely to become severely ill, but the new data raises questions about how easily they might transmit the disease, said the three individuals. Such transmission did not happen in any significant way with earlier variants.>>


    So. Again: This is still a new disease. As it mutates, it changes. Policy needs to change along with it.

    Earlier data showed that vaccinated people who experienced breakthrough infections carried a much lower viral load than unvaccinated people did. This changed with the delta variant. And now delta is the predominant strain in the US.

    Delta behaves differently than the wild strain -- higher viral load in everyone, attacks the body differently, shorter time between infection and onset of symptoms.

    So, until today, since vaccinated people were unlikely to infect others, the masking requirement was lifted. The data have changed, so policy is following.
    Your last sentence though is still correct. Vaccinated people are unlikely still to infect others. It is the breakthrough cases (which are rare) that will possibly be able to transmit the disease as easy as an unvaccinated person. The vaccine still works incredibly well against the Delta. This has not changed. 

    What's not clear to me right now is if the viral load is higher in asymptomatic breakthrough cases as well. If it is, that's a big problem -- and a strong argument for masking.

    I'm vaccinated. Odds are I won't get infected -- and if I do, odds are I won't even know. If I'm infected but asymptomatic, how contagious am I? I think that's the big question -- for today anyway.
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,890
    The vaccinated  here  are defiantly  getting  ill. Just  not as ill.  Masks work. The delta viral load is 1200 x higher  so spreads so much more.  


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    curmudgeoness said:
    PJNB said:
    curmudgeoness said:
    About today's masking reversal:


    <<Top health officials, who were debating the new masking guidance on Monday afternoon, said the game-changer was new data showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant carry the same viral load as unvaccinated people who are infected, according to three people familiar with the data. Vaccinated people are unlikely to become severely ill, but the new data raises questions about how easily they might transmit the disease, said the three individuals. Such transmission did not happen in any significant way with earlier variants.>>


    So. Again: This is still a new disease. As it mutates, it changes. Policy needs to change along with it.

    Earlier data showed that vaccinated people who experienced breakthrough infections carried a much lower viral load than unvaccinated people did. This changed with the delta variant. And now delta is the predominant strain in the US.

    Delta behaves differently than the wild strain -- higher viral load in everyone, attacks the body differently, shorter time between infection and onset of symptoms.

    So, until today, since vaccinated people were unlikely to infect others, the masking requirement was lifted. The data have changed, so policy is following.
    Your last sentence though is still correct. Vaccinated people are unlikely still to infect others. It is the breakthrough cases (which are rare) that will possibly be able to transmit the disease as easy as an unvaccinated person. The vaccine still works incredibly well against the Delta. This has not changed. 

    What's not clear to me right now is if the viral load is higher in asymptomatic breakthrough cases as well. If it is, that's a big problem -- and a strong argument for masking.

    I'm vaccinated. Odds are I won't get infected -- and if I do, odds are I won't even know. If I'm infected but asymptomatic, how contagious am I? I think that's the big question -- for today anyway.
    For sure it is a big question and you would think that with the rises and downward trend in the UK there would be plenty of data out there for us to go through. I think the risk is still incredibly low at the moment to be vaccinated and spread the virus around viral load being equal or not.   

    I think this truly goes back to the CDC when they first implemented the no mask needed for vaccinated citizens policy they did it for a couple of reasons. One they believed it at the time was not necessary to wear a mask indoors if you are vaccinated and second they thought it might get people that were not vaccinated an incentive to go out and get the jab. What they never really considered was that the honour rule does not work. It is either everyone wears masks indoors or very few people will. Hence the backpedal on the policy here with cases going up. No one is wearing them indoors anymore (or very few) and to get the people that are most likely infected to wear masks again, that being the unvaccinated everyone has to wear them to enforce it. 

    I wonder at what point does this cycle end? Cases go up restrictions come back. Cases go down it is time to party again. 


  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,890
    Our cases are dropping only because the football is over and schools broke up. So no indoor mixing. Weather's been hot. Everyone is outdoors


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,574
    lastexitlondon said:
    Our cases are dropping only because the football is over and schools broke up. So no indoor mixing. Weather's been hot. Everyone is outdoors
    Yes I saw that try to enjoy some outdoor fun 🤩, these days you have to take what you can get..I’m back to wearing masks for all indoor tasks except when I visit my elderly parents at his house they are both vaccinated too 
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  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited July 2021
    lastexitlondon said:
    Our cases are dropping only because the football is over and schools broke up. So no indoor mixing. Weather's been hot. Everyone is outdoors
    I think there is more to it than that I hope. 

    Hopefully Delta hits hard and fast then fizzles out over a short period of time. If the above statement is true then how are cases jumping in the US under the same circumstances? Also cases started to drop off in large numbers even after the US had huge amounts of indoor events and school still going on. I just think there is more to this virus's waves than seasons and events. 
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    lastexitlondon said:
    Our cases are dropping only because the football is over and schools broke up. So no indoor mixing. Weather's been hot. Everyone is outdoors
    There you go being all logical 
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    I don't think we'll know anything for sure until we have mostly immunized population during the winter. then we'll know for sure how this is going to play out. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,050
    "first of all, that question is a hipaa violation."

    :lol:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855

  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,890
    The facts are there. Its the people  that are THE problem.  


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,369
    lastexitlondon said:
    The facts are there. Its the people  that are THE problem.  

    always have been. always will be.
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  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,574
    Unreal that we could be a couple of mutations from the vaccine not being able to fight it off, I know we’re not there but from all I’ve read it could happen if we don’t get this virus under control..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • elvistheking44
    elvistheking44 Posts: 4,540
    josevolution said:
    Unreal that we could be a couple of mutations from the vaccine not being able to fight it off, I know we’re not there but from all I’ve read it could happen if we don’t get this virus under control..
    This is how it begins….
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    elvistheking44 said:
    josevolution said:
    Unreal that we could be a couple of mutations from the vaccine not being able to fight it off, I know we’re not there but from all I’ve read it could happen if we don’t get this virus under control..
    This is how it begins….
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,369
     When you’re here, you’re unvaccinated. This pasta house doesn’t want immunized patrons.
    By Marisa Iati

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/27/huntington-beach-restaurant-no-vaccines/

     

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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,892
    josevolution said:
    Unreal that we could be a couple of mutations from the vaccine not being able to fight it off, I know we’re not there but from all I’ve read it could happen if we don’t get this virus under control..

    That's how viruses work, but it's also possible were a few mutations away from the virus being less severe.. so who knows.. lol.

    It's pretty apparent that herd ummunity isn't going the be thing. You've either got countries like the US that can't get anywhere near enough people vaccinated, or you have the children condundrum, where it's hard to get there without vaccinating kids, but even when they make vaccines available.. not sure parents will let their kids get them.

    I do feel that even if a mutation gets around a vaccine, our bodies should still have a rough start on how to fight the virus.   The worst is introducing a new virus into a population that has no immunity to it (like when the Europeans began to arrive in America).   Once there's some basic level of defence the severity might not be as bad.. even if you're not fully immune.
  • lastexit78
    lastexit78 Posts: 618
    I’ve taken this thing deadly serious since last March. I was admittedly a few weeks late but have followed all the best science I could get my hands on since. Got vaccinated when it was my turn and trust the science as these vaccines are incredibly effective. Unfortunately the media and the CDC/WHO have done an awful job communicating facts. A few things really bother me at this point. Aside from obviously blaming the unvaccinated who are an easy target but that gets old and isn’t helping at this point.

    • The term Herd Immunity needs to be retired. It’s completely subjective and means nothing. Cases will rise and fall at different intervals from country to country, state to state, county to county. There’s no magic number. Sadly natural infections are not even factoring into the totals. Which is ridiculous since those infected early in the pandemic still have robust protection. Reinfections with a poor outcome are basically null, but we hear none of it. It’s easy to find scientific data on this but the CDC won’t even mention it. Probably out of fear it could impact the vaccine rollout which I get.
    • Obsession with case counts needs to stop. Remember the good old days of flatten the curve? Now every case is a headline, including those vaccinated without symptoms. UK averaging less than 100 daily deaths for a while now. Guess what, that means the pandemic is effectively over there. A lot of highly vaccinated countries are seeing huge reductions in hospitalizations and deaths as well. France reported 28 deaths yesterday, Italy 24. Israel has been averting like 3 for a month. Meanwhile California reported 24 deaths yesterday, a state of 40 million residents. Yet restrictions are being imposed by the hour here. We are headed for some serious civil unrest as deniers dig in deeper. It’s scary, I don’t have the answers, but I do know we need to start focusing on how many people are actually getting sick and not revert to panic mode every time cases increase or some new variant shows up. There are some serious problems being dwarfed by our obsession with COVID. Gun violence, the screwed up labor market, inflation, mental health, education, health care, the environment. All these issues have been fueled or neglected by our fixation on COVID. We need to get a handle on this thing in the next 6-9 months, if not I’m really fearful of what this country and our world might look like if the carnage continues. 
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  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927

  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,321
    CM189191 said:

    It sort of looks like getting vaccinated might just be a good idea.
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