Shut out once again. Ten Club, I would like an explanation

NewfieintheUSA · January 2020

IntoTheSun said:

Okay, so far it seems like a lot of name mismatches and other user errors. Going back to the OP, I thought the lottery system was set up to work like it has in previous years. Therefore, their entry was essentially...
1 - Toronto GA,
2 - Toronto RES,
3 - Hamilton GA,
4 - Hamilton RES.
Is that correct or no?

No, it was

1. Toronto BA
2. Hamilton BA

GA and Res are not different priorities in this

Lerxst1992 · January 2020

benjs said:

show previous quotes

jerparker20 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jerparker20 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jerparker20 said:

Get_Right said:

Lostpawn said:

Get_Right said:

The odds are BS and demand for this tour will be higher than ever. Demand exceeds supply which means that some people will not get tickets. That is all, there is your explanation.

That WOULD make sense... if TOR weren't his 1st choice, and others got in with TOR as their 3rd choice. So no, it's not an odds issue.

LOTTERY - a process whose success or outcome is governed by chance. Sometimes your name is called, sometimes it is not. It is not complicated.

Correct. Other unknown factors:

How many tickets per venue were actually allocated to the 10club. Were identical amounts allocated for each venue? Were more tickets secured for some venues and less at others?

How were the ticket odds actually calculated? How often were the odds being updated? Was there a large last minute submittal of ticket requests that would have caused the actual odds to be off at the moment of the draw and the site was not updated? How were submissions of “best available” classified in the odds, or were they even included in the odds calculation?

How were the ticket draws actually done? Let’s say there were 5,000 tickets per venue available. And they put 3000 tickets in the “first priority” draw. Those who had first priority, but not selected got bumped into “second priority” draw with 1000 tickets with all the people who had made that selection, and so on?

No one here actually knows how the draw went. No where in any communication was there language that everyone would be guaranteed tickets if the odds showed 99%. If someone really sleuthed around the ticket site they’d probably find language stating that the reflected odds may not be accurate or considered accurate.

sometimes people get lucky, sometimes things suck.

Thanks for reading this topic carefully before that long comment. The odds have always been simple. And the odds were never before 99% for most shows. So simple explanation is the odds are wrong

But that does not explain how 2 fans lost 4 shows total that were 99%, including first and second priority picks where others won tickets with 3rd and 4th picks.

If you have statistical proof how that is a valid occurance in a random 99% draw, please share.

Are you 100% sure that the stated 99% odds were 100% accurate? Or are the stated odds “for entertainment purposes only”? We don’t know.

Also the ticket request was stated as being a lottery, not a ticket request guarantee. Lottery implies a chance of winning and chance of losing. 99% still means you have 1% chance of losing. Don’t have to like it, but it is what it is.

When I wrote that it looked like it happened to 2 fans with 2 picks (4 total picks), where other fans won tix to same show with lower priority picks. A 1% loss 4 times? Losing to a lower priority pick 4 times?

I'm not certain how statistics could explain that. Apparently one was explained by user error.

I think you are placing too much faith and trust in the accuracy of of the stated odds. Again, we have no idea how that number was calculated, what variables were accounted for, likelihood of user error, and so on. because of that it can only be used as a figure to make an educated guess or an assumption of which choice could yield a best result, not a guarantee.

Yes, it seems odd that someone got shut out on a first priority, and others scored on 3rd priority. Again, no matter what info has been relayed to us on how the process works, they still bill it as a lottery, which implies chance and some randomness in how things shake out. And, as mentioned the users ability to comprehend the info that was provided and user error probably will account for the majority of the folks who get shut out.

Actually, I think we're placing too much faith in the entry being submitted with the instructions followed precisely. We've now discovered two incidents that were user error. Are there any others?

Moses made an error?

I recall the other fan made an error with Toronto but the Hamilton request still should have been valid and the pick was lost to a lower priority pick?

IlliniGuy76 · January 2020

Steve carmer said:

If the show or shows you put in for have not been drawn, can you update on your ticket master account now? Wasn’t sure if it would affect it since it’s already been submitted. My issue is my ten club is under Steve and my ticket master is under Steven. My last name, emails were the same.

Update your TM account RIGHT NOW if your shows haven't been drawn yet!

NewfieintheUSA · January 2020

A note on the Best Available option, the most likely database design would not have included a field for Best Available, just GA and Reserved. The Best Available would just have been a button on the web form that automatically selected the GA and Reserved options for you.

ecdanc · January 2020

This thread has made me paranoid, now. My TM and 10c email addresses are different. Since the form specifically asked for my 10c email address, I assume I'm fine. But y'all made me wonder. I can't change my TM address to my 10c address, and I'm worried if I change my 10c address, it will then conflict with the form I filled out.

IlliniGuy76 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

This thread has made me paranoid, now. My TM and 10c email addresses are different. Since the form specifically asked for my 10c email address, I assume I'm fine. But y'all made me wonder. I can't change my TM address to my 10c address, and I'm worried if I change my 10c address, it will then conflict with the form I filled out.

I changed my TM email before the lottery closed to match my 10C... you can do it

jerparker20 · January 2020

benjs said:

show previous quotes

jerparker20 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jerparker20 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jerparker20 said:

Get_Right said:

Lostpawn said:

Get_Right said:

The odds are BS and demand for this tour will be higher than ever. Demand exceeds supply which means that some people will not get tickets. That is all, there is your explanation.

That WOULD make sense... if TOR weren't his 1st choice, and others got in with TOR as their 3rd choice. So no, it's not an odds issue.

LOTTERY - a process whose success or outcome is governed by chance. Sometimes your name is called, sometimes it is not. It is not complicated.

Correct. Other unknown factors:

How many tickets per venue were actually allocated to the 10club. Were identical amounts allocated for each venue? Were more tickets secured for some venues and less at others?

How were the ticket odds actually calculated? How often were the odds being updated? Was there a large last minute submittal of ticket requests that would have caused the actual odds to be off at the moment of the draw and the site was not updated? How were submissions of “best available” classified in the odds, or were they even included in the odds calculation?

How were the ticket draws actually done? Let’s say there were 5,000 tickets per venue available. And they put 3000 tickets in the “first priority” draw. Those who had first priority, but not selected got bumped into “second priority” draw with 1000 tickets with all the people who had made that selection, and so on?

No one here actually knows how the draw went. No where in any communication was there language that everyone would be guaranteed tickets if the odds showed 99%. If someone really sleuthed around the ticket site they’d probably find language stating that the reflected odds may not be accurate or considered accurate.

sometimes people get lucky, sometimes things suck.

Thanks for reading this topic carefully before that long comment. The odds have always been simple. And the odds were never before 99% for most shows. So simple explanation is the odds are wrong

But that does not explain how 2 fans lost 4 shows total that were 99%, including first and second priority picks where others won tickets with 3rd and 4th picks.

If you have statistical proof how that is a valid occurance in a random 99% draw, please share.

Are you 100% sure that the stated 99% odds were 100% accurate? Or are the stated odds “for entertainment purposes only”? We don’t know.

Also the ticket request was stated as being a lottery, not a ticket request guarantee. Lottery implies a chance of winning and chance of losing. 99% still means you have 1% chance of losing. Don’t have to like it, but it is what it is.

When I wrote that it looked like it happened to 2 fans with 2 picks (4 total picks), where other fans won tix to same show with lower priority picks. A 1% loss 4 times? Losing to a lower priority pick 4 times?

I'm not certain how statistics could explain that. Apparently one was explained by user error.

I think you are placing too much faith and trust in the accuracy of of the stated odds. Again, we have no idea how that number was calculated, what variables were accounted for, likelihood of user error, and so on. because of that it can only be used as a figure to make an educated guess or an assumption of which choice could yield a best result, not a guarantee.

Yes, it seems odd that someone got shut out on a first priority, and others scored on 3rd priority. Again, no matter what info has been relayed to us on how the process works, they still bill it as a lottery, which implies chance and some randomness in how things shake out. And, as mentioned the users ability to comprehend the info that was provided and user error probably will account for the majority of the folks who get shut out.

Actually, I think we're placing too much faith in the entry being submitted with the instructions followed precisely. We've now discovered two incidents that were user error. Are there any others?

Agree. In my job i’m baffled Multiple times a day on people’s inability to comprehend and process basic directions and information.

IntoTheSun · January 2020

NewfieintheUSA said:

A note on the Best Available option, the most likely database design would not have included a field for Best Available, just GA and Reserved. The Best Available would just have been a button on the web form that automatically selected the GA and Reserved options for you.

Best Available wasn't a separate option from the GA and RES option, just a combination of the two. If you selected BA, it checked both boxes. If you checked both boxes, it activated BA.

aidt17 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

This thread has made me paranoid, now. My TM and 10c email addresses are different. Since the form specifically asked for my 10c email address, I assume I'm fine. But y'all made me wonder. I can't change my TM address to my 10c address, and I'm worried if I change my 10c address, it will then conflict with the form I filled out.

My ten club email is different than my tickertmaster email. As long as when the submission prompted you to put in the email associated with your ten club account matches up you should be good to go. (operative word being SHOULD)

jdizzle8291 · January 2020

Lerxst1992 said:

show previous quotes

benjs said:

jerparker20 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jerparker20 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jerparker20 said:

Get_Right said:

Lostpawn said:

Get_Right said:

The odds are BS and demand for this tour will be higher than ever. Demand exceeds supply which means that some people will not get tickets. That is all, there is your explanation.

That WOULD make sense... if TOR weren't his 1st choice, and others got in with TOR as their 3rd choice. So no, it's not an odds issue.

LOTTERY - a process whose success or outcome is governed by chance. Sometimes your name is called, sometimes it is not. It is not complicated.

Correct. Other unknown factors:

How many tickets per venue were actually allocated to the 10club. Were identical amounts allocated for each venue? Were more tickets secured for some venues and less at others?

How were the ticket odds actually calculated? How often were the odds being updated? Was there a large last minute submittal of ticket requests that would have caused the actual odds to be off at the moment of the draw and the site was not updated? How were submissions of “best available” classified in the odds, or were they even included in the odds calculation?

How were the ticket draws actually done? Let’s say there were 5,000 tickets per venue available. And they put 3000 tickets in the “first priority” draw. Those who had first priority, but not selected got bumped into “second priority” draw with 1000 tickets with all the people who had made that selection, and so on?

No one here actually knows how the draw went. No where in any communication was there language that everyone would be guaranteed tickets if the odds showed 99%. If someone really sleuthed around the ticket site they’d probably find language stating that the reflected odds may not be accurate or considered accurate.

sometimes people get lucky, sometimes things suck.

Thanks for reading this topic carefully before that long comment. The odds have always been simple. And the odds were never before 99% for most shows. So simple explanation is the odds are wrong

But that does not explain how 2 fans lost 4 shows total that were 99%, including first and second priority picks where others won tickets with 3rd and 4th picks.

If you have statistical proof how that is a valid occurance in a random 99% draw, please share.

Are you 100% sure that the stated 99% odds were 100% accurate? Or are the stated odds “for entertainment purposes only”? We don’t know.

Also the ticket request was stated as being a lottery, not a ticket request guarantee. Lottery implies a chance of winning and chance of losing. 99% still means you have 1% chance of losing. Don’t have to like it, but it is what it is.

When I wrote that it looked like it happened to 2 fans with 2 picks (4 total picks), where other fans won tix to same show with lower priority picks. A 1% loss 4 times? Losing to a lower priority pick 4 times?

I'm not certain how statistics could explain that. Apparently one was explained by user error.

I think you are placing too much faith and trust in the accuracy of of the stated odds. Again, we have no idea how that number was calculated, what variables were accounted for, likelihood of user error, and so on. because of that it can only be used as a figure to make an educated guess or an assumption of which choice could yield a best result, not a guarantee.

Yes, it seems odd that someone got shut out on a first priority, and others scored on 3rd priority. Again, no matter what info has been relayed to us on how the process works, they still bill it as a lottery, which implies chance and some randomness in how things shake out. And, as mentioned the users ability to comprehend the info that was provided and user error probably will account for the majority of the folks who get shut out.

Actually, I think we're placing too much faith in the entry being submitted with the instructions followed precisely. We've now discovered two incidents that were user error. Are there any others?

Moses made an error?

I recall the other fan made an error with Toronto but the Hamilton request still should have been valid and the pick was lost to a lower priority pick?

I don't think Moses was said to have made an error to this point. A second user recently came by and said that they had picked show A, then went back in to "add" show B, but never re-added show A, so only got show B.

benjs · January 2020

Lerxst1992 said:

show previous quotes

benjs said:

jerparker20 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jerparker20 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

jerparker20 said:

Get_Right said:

Lostpawn said:

Get_Right said:

The odds are BS and demand for this tour will be higher than ever. Demand exceeds supply which means that some people will not get tickets. That is all, there is your explanation.

That WOULD make sense... if TOR weren't his 1st choice, and others got in with TOR as their 3rd choice. So no, it's not an odds issue.

LOTTERY - a process whose success or outcome is governed by chance. Sometimes your name is called, sometimes it is not. It is not complicated.

Correct. Other unknown factors:

How many tickets per venue were actually allocated to the 10club. Were identical amounts allocated for each venue? Were more tickets secured for some venues and less at others?

How were the ticket odds actually calculated? How often were the odds being updated? Was there a large last minute submittal of ticket requests that would have caused the actual odds to be off at the moment of the draw and the site was not updated? How were submissions of “best available” classified in the odds, or were they even included in the odds calculation?

How were the ticket draws actually done? Let’s say there were 5,000 tickets per venue available. And they put 3000 tickets in the “first priority” draw. Those who had first priority, but not selected got bumped into “second priority” draw with 1000 tickets with all the people who had made that selection, and so on?

No one here actually knows how the draw went. No where in any communication was there language that everyone would be guaranteed tickets if the odds showed 99%. If someone really sleuthed around the ticket site they’d probably find language stating that the reflected odds may not be accurate or considered accurate.

sometimes people get lucky, sometimes things suck.

Thanks for reading this topic carefully before that long comment. The odds have always been simple. And the odds were never before 99% for most shows. So simple explanation is the odds are wrong

But that does not explain how 2 fans lost 4 shows total that were 99%, including first and second priority picks where others won tickets with 3rd and 4th picks.

If you have statistical proof how that is a valid occurance in a random 99% draw, please share.

Are you 100% sure that the stated 99% odds were 100% accurate? Or are the stated odds “for entertainment purposes only”? We don’t know.

Also the ticket request was stated as being a lottery, not a ticket request guarantee. Lottery implies a chance of winning and chance of losing. 99% still means you have 1% chance of losing. Don’t have to like it, but it is what it is.

When I wrote that it looked like it happened to 2 fans with 2 picks (4 total picks), where other fans won tix to same show with lower priority picks. A 1% loss 4 times? Losing to a lower priority pick 4 times?

I'm not certain how statistics could explain that. Apparently one was explained by user error.

I think you are placing too much faith and trust in the accuracy of of the stated odds. Again, we have no idea how that number was calculated, what variables were accounted for, likelihood of user error, and so on. because of that it can only be used as a figure to make an educated guess or an assumption of which choice could yield a best result, not a guarantee.

Yes, it seems odd that someone got shut out on a first priority, and others scored on 3rd priority. Again, no matter what info has been relayed to us on how the process works, they still bill it as a lottery, which implies chance and some randomness in how things shake out. And, as mentioned the users ability to comprehend the info that was provided and user error probably will account for the majority of the folks who get shut out.

Actually, I think we're placing too much faith in the entry being submitted with the instructions followed precisely. We've now discovered two incidents that were user error. Are there any others?

Moses made an error?

I recall the other fan made an error with Toronto but the Hamilton request still should have been valid and the pick was lost to a lower priority pick?

Moses stated that he used different email addresses. Not sure whether he meant he put his TM email address in the form instead of the 10C email address, but it seemed that's what he suggested.

BennyLaRue · January 2020

Lerxst1992 said:
Moses made an error?

Possible issue with emails not matching up. TBD.

ecdanc · January 2020

IlliniGuy76 said:

show previous quotes

ecdanc said:

This thread has made me paranoid, now. My TM and 10c email addresses are different. Since the form specifically asked for my 10c email address, I assume I'm fine. But y'all made me wonder. I can't change my TM address to my 10c address, and I'm worried if I change my 10c address, it will then conflict with the form I filled out.

I changed my TM email before the lottery closed to match my 10C... you can do it

I apparently have an old, defunct TM account with the email address on my 10c account, so I can't.

Noload · January 2020

"Your name under your Ticketmaster account must match your name under your Ten Club membership account."
Name..not email?

cannotstaylong · January 2020

IlliniGuy76 said:

show previous quotes

Noload said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

PB11041 said:

aidt17 said:

Step 2. On the resulting Ticket Request site, sign in to your Ticketmaster account, or create a new one if you don’t have one. Your name under your Ticketmaster account must match your name under your Ten Club membership account.

This was step 2 on the pre sale ticket info page.

wouldn't that have triggered an error on the submission though? That is crazy if not. I just went in to my ticket master account and sure enough my last name was fucking missing.

Same thing happened to me (last name randomly missing), I didn't know (totally realize it was right there in the rules and just missed it) - they haven't chosen my shows yet, however. I called the 800 number and he said that since they haven't gotten to my shows yet I should be OK - I just emailed them as well.

I just realized my profile was my first name only in TM. I called the number and not a lot of help. I updated my TM profile adding my last name and emailed tickets@tenclub.net. My shows are Balt, NYC and Nashville. I'm probably fucked.

This seems to be an issue with a LOT of people - last names on TM accounts just randomly not there. What did the 800# rep tell you when you asked them this morning?

I had the same problem - my Ticketmaster profile did not show my last name. Prior to calling the 800 number, I manually entered my last name into Ticketmaster and updated the profile.

When I called the 800 number and spoke with the Ticketmaster representative, she confirmed that my last name already appeared in their system in connection with my order number, since I had manually entered the last name when submitting the lottery order. She specifically told me that it is possible for your last name to be associated with the order even if it doesn't appear in your Ticketmaster profile - as long as you entered your last name when placing the order.

benjs · January 2020

Noload said:

"Your name under your Ticketmaster account must match your name under your Ten Club membership account."
Name..not email?

Correct, and while not in the instructions 10C sent, on the form to submit ticket entries, it clearly asked for the 10C email the account is registered under. That's why I mentioned above I feel they changed their minds and decided to validate on that instead.

PJammin · January 2020

cannotstaylong said:

show previous quotes

IlliniGuy76 said:

Noload said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

PB11041 said:

aidt17 said:

Step 2. On the resulting Ticket Request site, sign in to your Ticketmaster account, or create a new one if you don’t have one. Your name under your Ticketmaster account must match your name under your Ten Club membership account.

This was step 2 on the pre sale ticket info page.

wouldn't that have triggered an error on the submission though? That is crazy if not. I just went in to my ticket master account and sure enough my last name was fucking missing.

Same thing happened to me (last name randomly missing), I didn't know (totally realize it was right there in the rules and just missed it) - they haven't chosen my shows yet, however. I called the 800 number and he said that since they haven't gotten to my shows yet I should be OK - I just emailed them as well.

I just realized my profile was my first name only in TM. I called the number and not a lot of help. I updated my TM profile adding my last name and emailed tickets@tenclub.net. My shows are Balt, NYC and Nashville. I'm probably fucked.

This seems to be an issue with a LOT of people - last names on TM accounts just randomly not there. What did the 800# rep tell you when you asked them this morning?

I had the same problem - my Ticketmaster profile did not show my last name. Prior to calling the 800 number, I manually entered my last name into Ticketmaster and updated the profile.

When I called the 800 number and spoke with the Ticketmaster representative, she confirmed that my last name already appeared in their system in connection with my order number, since I had manually entered the last name when submitting the lottery order. She specifically told me that it is possible for your last name to be associated with the order even if it doesn't appear in your Ticketmaster profile - as long as you entered your last name when placing the order.

Good to know....thanks!

pjsteelerfan · January 2020

IlliniGuy76 said:

show previous quotes

jdizzle8291 said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

jdizzle8291 said:

PB11041 said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

PB11041 said:

aidt17 said:

Step 2. On the resulting Ticket Request site, sign in to your Ticketmaster account, or create a new one if you don’t have one. Your name under your Ticketmaster account must match your name under your Ten Club membership account.

This was step 2 on the pre sale ticket info page.

wouldn't that have triggered an error on the submission though? That is crazy if not. I just went in to my ticket master account and sure enough my last name was fucking missing.

Same thing happened to me (last name randomly missing), I didn't know (totally realize it was right there in the rules and just missed it) - they haven't chosen my shows yet, however. I called the 800 number and he said that since they haven't gotten to my shows yet I should be OK - I just emailed them as well.

fuck me, I updated it. Holy shit what a cluster. I have been on my current TM account which is the same email as my TC since 2013, but for some shit reason my last name was not showing and that makes no sense to me.

My last name wasn't originally showing up either, as was the case for many of us. Not sure what the deal was with that.

Did you enter it prior to the lottery closing or after? Have they drawn your shows yet?

I was able to update my info prior to lotto close. I was chosen for my Toronto/Hamilton reserved picks.

Thanks for letting me know - I just updated mine... NYC & St Louis (only two shows I chose) haven't been drawn yet. Don't know if they do account matching as they're drawing shows OR if they did it at the beginning and just eliminated accounts that didn't match. 800# rep told me if they haven't drawn my show I should be OK - who knows.

That's good for people to know, double check your name is correct in TM profile

aidt17 · January 2020

Here was my scenario for those with the email concerns.
Logged into ticketmaster with email address 1 (email associated with ticketmaster account)
One of the requirements on the ticket request pages was to put in the email associated with your 10C account. Filled in email 2 (10 club email) which is different than email 1

My personal info for both accounts have my same first and last name. So the emails not being the same were not an issue for me.
I may have gotten lucky going 4/4 but it seems like being totally shut out would have to be some type of info submission error. Not to say being shutout isnt possible but highly unlucky

Bentleyspop · January 2020

I changed my TM name to match my 10club name a day before putting in my ticket request.
I just went to update/change the email associated with my TM account and it wouldn't go through.

Maybe paranoid PJ fans are overloading the email servers at TM

Shut out once again. Ten Club, I would like an explanation

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