A safe place for anxiety sufferers to share.

Meltdown99 said:

mickeyrat said:

Meltdown99 said:

mickeyrat said:

as a good friend says in AA , you don't have to like it, love it or roll around in the grass with it  but accept it you must.

So, ok it is what it is. And I dont like it.

Did the program work for you?  My brother went to rehab 3 or 4 times and tried AA ... It did not work for him.  The success of these rehab clinics is pretty low, AA does not have a great success rate.  Most rehab clinics use the 12 step program.   From what I understand the program was delivered in the '20s and is virtually unchanged since.  If that is true, you will never convince me that it can be all that good.  Times change, people change, our lives are far more busy and complicated.  Would you send kids to a school with 1920's curriculum?

first, it was offered via the book in 39.  it tells the collective story of the first 100 or so to get and stay sober. if it aint broke, whats to improve on?

not knowing your brothers story, I cant speak to what you seem to think doesnt work. I am going tk guess he didnt buy into the concept and do what is suggested consistently.

success rates are factually hard to judge as its all self reported. there are no master lists beyond individual group level. the courts, unable to do anything see AA as a panacea and order attendance, should those folks count toward success rates?

further AA doesnt proclaim itself as the end all be all in regards to alcoholism. the early members understood their limitations. the book is quite prophectic in some areas. guessing man would walk on the moon among other things, but makes it clear its meant for the hopeless and helpless and that medical science may well discover additinal trreatments. which has partially come to pass.

You seem to have an already closed mind to the concept.

so I'll close with a quote found in the book attributed to Herbert Spencer(in error)

 There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments   and which cannnot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

William Paley

  

as to your initial question.  I am 13yrs  4 monts and 12 days sober. sonething I could not seem to do on my own. there are any number of ways to get and stay sober. I dont know what they are. but this is working for me. allows me some peace and to live comfortably enough in my skin.

personally the method one uses to achieve sobriety  is secondary to the end result. but all methods require active participation of  the individual for any success.

For one.  My brother (Passed Away) was not the type of person who would have like standing up and telling strangers his problems.  And religion aspect would never sit well with him.  And the program works for a very few people.  So facts are pretty much not in dispute from what I read.  Yeah, why change?  Because the program is a failure.  And even if worked in 1930, times change, people change.  I am sure the education curriculum in 1930 was fine for 1930 and was working...but you sure as hell won't want kids educated by 1930's standard.

You know if you got cancer, the oncology team plots a course of treatment and is tailored to your needs.

The Irrationality of Alcoholics Anonymous
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/

Nowhere in the field of medicine is treatment less grounded in modern science. A 2012 report by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University compared the current state of addiction medicine to general medicine in the early 1900s, when quacks worked alongside graduates of leading medical schools. The American Medical Association estimates that out of nearly 1 million doctors in the United States, only 582 identify themselves as addiction specialists. (The Columbia report notes that there may be additional doctors who have a subspecialty in addiction.) Most treatment providers carry the credential of addiction counsellor or substance-abuse counsellor, for which many states require little more than a high-school diploma or a GED. Many counsellors are in recovery themselves. The report stated: “The vast majority of people in need of addiction treatment do not receive anything that approximates evidence-based care.”

Like I said.  1935 methods will not work.  I know a lot of atheists will sit in rooms with people talking about an invisible man in the sky, and you want people to take that program seriously.  1st they need to acknowledge God is not real and dump that.  If your religion as part of the program then it is just a fairy tale program.

I will say it...rehab clinics and AA is just a con...these clinics are committing fraud in my opinion.

F Me In The Brain said:

lastexitlondon said:

Im embarrassed and in fear drs and family have told me its not what i think but i have such debilitating symptoms that i can find a meds or a drink or a smoke that makes better  although ive become basically addicted to drink and  pot even when i know it makes  confusion  more  its the small break of maybe 1hr where  i care less. Not that it ever abates. If fuckin ridiculous im 44 and dead as far as i can see

No idea what is going on with you, although I am sure it is really difficult.
Please keep on trying.  It is clear that you are a good person, one who has people who love him, and that deserves to be happy 

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I found being outside listening to music today to be calming

F Me In The Brain said:

Meltdown99 said:

mickeyrat said:

Meltdown99 said:

mickeyrat said:

as a good friend says in AA , you don't have to like it, love it or roll around in the grass with it  but accept it you must.

So, ok it is what it is. And I dont like it.

Did the program work for you?  My brother went to rehab 3 or 4 times and tried AA ... It did not work for him.  The success of these rehab clinics is pretty low, AA does not have a great success rate.  Most rehab clinics use the 12 step program.   From what I understand the program was delivered in the '20s and is virtually unchanged since.  If that is true, you will never convince me that it can be all that good.  Times change, people change, our lives are far more busy and complicated.  Would you send kids to a school with 1920's curriculum?

first, it was offered via the book in 39.  it tells the collective story of the first 100 or so to get and stay sober. if it aint broke, whats to improve on?

not knowing your brothers story, I cant speak to what you seem to think doesnt work. I am going tk guess he didnt buy into the concept and do what is suggested consistently.

success rates are factually hard to judge as its all self reported. there are no master lists beyond individual group level. the courts, unable to do anything see AA as a panacea and order attendance, should those folks count toward success rates?

further AA doesnt proclaim itself as the end all be all in regards to alcoholism. the early members understood their limitations. the book is quite prophectic in some areas. guessing man would walk on the moon among other things, but makes it clear its meant for the hopeless and helpless and that medical science may well discover additinal trreatments. which has partially come to pass.

You seem to have an already closed mind to the concept.

so I'll close with a quote found in the book attributed to Herbert Spencer(in error)

 There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments   and which cannnot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

William Paley

  

as to your initial question.  I am 13yrs  4 monts and 12 days sober. sonething I could not seem to do on my own. there are any number of ways to get and stay sober. I dont know what they are. but this is working for me. allows me some peace and to live comfortably enough in my skin.

personally the method one uses to achieve sobriety  is secondary to the end result. but all methods require active participation of  the individual for any success.

For one.  My brother (Passed Away) was not the type of person who would have like standing up and telling strangers his problems.  And religion aspect would never sit well with him.  And the program works for a very few people.  So facts are pretty much not in dispute from what I read.  Yeah, why change?  Because the program is a failure.  And even if worked in 1930, times change, people change.  I am sure the education curriculum in 1930 was fine for 1930 and was working...but you sure as hell won't want kids educated by 1930's standard.

You know if you got cancer, the oncology team plots a course of treatment and is tailored to your needs.

The Irrationality of Alcoholics Anonymous
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/

Nowhere in the field of medicine is treatment less grounded in modern science. A 2012 report by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University compared the current state of addiction medicine to general medicine in the early 1900s, when quacks worked alongside graduates of leading medical schools. The American Medical Association estimates that out of nearly 1 million doctors in the United States, only 582 identify themselves as addiction specialists. (The Columbia report notes that there may be additional doctors who have a subspecialty in addiction.) Most treatment providers carry the credential of addiction counsellor or substance-abuse counsellor, for which many states require little more than a high-school diploma or a GED. Many counsellors are in recovery themselves. The report stated: “The vast majority of people in need of addiction treatment do not receive anything that approximates evidence-based care.”

Like I said.  1935 methods will not work.  I know a lot of atheists will sit in rooms with people talking about an invisible man in the sky, and you want people to take that program seriously.  1st they need to acknowledge God is not real and dump that.  If your religion as part of the program then it is just a fairy tale program.

I will say it...rehab clinics and AA is just a con...these clinics are committing fraud in my opinion.

The man tells you this method helped him a great deal and is in a better place now....and you tell him it is a con.
You are really not a nice person.
That stuff is downright mean.
Hope you find some help so that you can try and be better, or at least not seek to antagonize others quite so much.
Awful of you, really.

njnancy said:

I am having a really difficult time.  Can't really put into words correctly while I'm in 'it ' but I've dealt with panic disorder for over 20 years.  I have had PTSD for about 5 years, which is another anxiety disorder,  but I have learned to live with my panic (& depression) . I can function in society except for when panic or depression hit out of nowhere sometimes.  Though I've learned how to steer clear of thinking & situations that make an episode likely,  there are still times I get side swiped.  But I  know how to go through it & not go deeper & come back.  It's just a part of life for me. 

However,  PTSD anxiety feels & acts completely differently. I have always overcome challenges & I am determined to come out of this as the best version of me that I can muster.  I refuse to give in & give up.  But this anxiety is paralyzing & is constant.  It doesn't come & go, it has settled in the traumatized part of my brain & leaves me unable to do anything,  even under serious circumstances. I can't access that info that I need to be me &take care of my stuff.  I am extremely capable & am the "adult " for my mother & messed up son. 

I am scared of everything. I am terrified to leave  the house to do normal errands. Even the phone & the internet can be part of my fear. I  hate PTSD, it wants to take away everything that makes me Nancy. It steals time & cab make me hopeless. That's where I am now. Massive amounts of responsibility that I don't have the ability to accomplish.  I an trying. I hate that it was caused by people & not just in my genes.

I had to write something cause this is years being lost & I am strong but man it may be stronger. Im not lazy,  I'm exhausted from fighting this beast.  Refusing to fall into despair & be lost. I win everyday that I can still write my truth.  But I want more & I want it to fade into the background. 

And, i too,through AA got sober & hope to celebrate 23 years on November 13 . Fought it,  went to gobs of rehabs, but after 3 years of hell I finally realized that a power greater than myself did not have to be God,  just not me cause I only knew how to get  drunk,  I used the power of the people in the rooms &  then my dad died unexpectedly when I had about a month sober. He was known to enjoy a drink &  it caused his early death in some ways. Dad became  my higher power. I could tell him anything, anytime & my dad  guided me through  the beginning steps.  It was a beautiful gift one drunk gave to another. 

 I also lost my brother to the disease, at 41, he didn't take to rehabs or AA. I brought him though he'd been doing it since his teens.  Why me & not him?  Diseases take some & let others live.  I couldn't make him get sober,  nor he me. And I couldn't be diagnosed by a psychiatrist until I had 6 months sober. Then I began work on all my diseases. But I had no idea what trauma awaited & it's effects. 

They also both suffered from anxiety though never diagnosed, acknowledged or treated. Common with addicts & drunks. 

So i am in PTSD hell today. Im exhausted,  I'll end here. My brain is overwhelmed. Im thinking negatively so need to stop discussing. Thanks for letting me share.