I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
it doesn't bother me. nothing I said points to it "bothering" me.
I was out for lunch with a buddy, and golf was on the big screen. I asked him "do the play the national anthem at the first hole in golf? is Tiger Woods kneeling? nope. why in some sports and not all? right, because they know they aren't recruiting golf fans to the military with false patriotism. wrong demographic".
aren't you Canadian? is it false patriotism when the Canadian teams do it?
yes it is. I think it's stupid no matter where you live. unfortunately, many people in canada think the way to move culturally is to mimic whatever the US does. I'd like canada to stop acting like America's little brother and get our own identity.
the CFL has adopted military appreciation day, and we have jet flyovers after the anthem; it's ridiculousness.
the above quotes don't indicate that it bothers you? false patriotism, it's stupid, canada stop acting like america's little brother, flyers are ridiculous? sure seems like it's got you all bothered
why is it when americans see a canadian who has an opinion of america that isn't 100% positive, they try to dismiss it as "you sound angry dude". I'm not bothered. I have an opinion. you can have the latter without being the former, I'll have you know.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
however, I will ask you......do you not see the relation of american patriotism and:
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) -the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country".
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) - no. idiots are idiots not because of their country. Do you consider Europeans false patriots because they have issues with immigration?
-the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country". - how else would you suggest to recruit for military service? Unlike many countries our Military is fully volunteer. There is no required service.
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
however, I will ask you......do you not see the relation of american patriotism and:
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) -the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country".
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) - no. idiots are idiots not because of their country. Do you consider Europeans false patriots because they have issues with immigration?
-the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country". - how else would you suggest to recruit for military service? Unlike many countries our Military is fully volunteer. There is no required service.
europeans, at present, have a much more legitimate concern with regards to immigration than the US does.
you made my point.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
however, I will ask you......do you not see the relation of american patriotism and:
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) -the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country".
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) - no. idiots are idiots not because of their country. Do you consider Europeans false patriots because they have issues with immigration?
-the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country". - how else would you suggest to recruit for military service? Unlike many countries our Military is fully volunteer. There is no required service.
europeans, at present, have a much more legitimate concern with regards to immigration than the US does.
you made my point.
And you didn't answer my question. in an all volunteer military how would you suggest they recruit if not using love for/duty towards country? maybe they should advertise their cool uniforms, free meals and training?
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
however, I will ask you......do you not see the relation of american patriotism and:
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) -the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country".
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) - no. idiots are idiots not because of their country. Do you consider Europeans false patriots because they have issues with immigration?
-the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country". - how else would you suggest to recruit for military service? Unlike many countries our Military is fully volunteer. There is no required service.
europeans, at present, have a much more legitimate concern with regards to immigration than the US does.
you made my point.
And you didn't answer my question. in an all volunteer military how would you suggest they recruit if not using love for/duty towards country? maybe they should advertise their cool uniforms, free meals and training?
watch an ad for the canadian military. while it still has some elements of patriotism, it's not even close to the ridiculousness that the american military tries to sell. the ones I've seen have lot less "flags waving in the wind" and more "come out and help people" vibe to them.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
Definition of patriotism
:love for or devotion to one's country
what did I say that is untrue?
These are 2 things you wrote today that are not part of the definition of Patriotism by those who define what words mean. Granted, you are allowed to make up your own meanings to words..
patriotism is a recruitment tool and a way to keep people in check. nothing more.
patriotism is just blindly following your government and their
cultivation of fear and ignorance thinking you are better for no other
reason than being born in a certain geographical location.
a definition of a word is different than my interpretation of how it is utilized. however, I believe that "devotion to one's country" falls in line with both of the above statements.
Curious about others' opinions, but I believe these two questions are important to answer before deciding whether or not one is 'patriotic'.
1. If I have to take a humanist stance or a patriotic stance (and they are mutually exclusive), is it right to be a patriot or a humanist, and is it unpatriotic in that case to act as a humanist?
2. Is it patriotic to act in adherence to the values that my country claims to represent, if that adherence means acting against what is best for my country's military and/or government (i.e. if I feel that the military and/or government are not adhering to my country's values)?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"The pool reporter with the vice president had been told to stay outside the stadium and that Pence may leave the game early."
I'd be curious to know , at what point he left? was it after the anthem or during when he saw the constutionally protected protest, you know , the Constitution that he swore an oath to preserve and protect as VP?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"The pool reporter with the vice president had been told to stay outside the stadium and that Pence may leave the game early."
I'd be curious to know , at what point he left? was it after the anthem or during when he saw the constutionally protected protest, you know , the Constitution that he swore an oath to preserve and protect as VP?
He went to the game with a predetermined notion of leaving if any players knelt, knowing full damn well they were going to. This is nothing but a political stunt. Meanwhile, our tax dollars are being spent - scratch that - wasted on this bullshit because he has Secret Service agents and transportation provided for him via our pockets. By the way, Nazis marched again yesterday in Virginia, but damn those kneeling players protesting social and racial injustices. Fuck Mike Pence. Dumb fucker doesn’t even know better than to use a 3 year old photo when he tweets.
He went to the game with a predetermined notion of leaving if any players knelt, knowing full damn well they were going to. This is nothing but a political stunt.
Kneeling has become a political stunt now full on. Players are now coming out in droves w/ a predetermined notion to kneel mostly to oppose Trump.
He went to the game with a predetermined notion of leaving if any players knelt, knowing full damn well they were going to. This is nothing but a political stunt.
Kneeling has become a political stunt now full on. Players are now coming out in droves w/ a predetermined notion to kneel mostly to oppose Trump.
Nice try. As I said, it’s a protest against social and racial injustices, but you conveniently deleted that part.
He went to the game with a predetermined notion of leaving if any players knelt, knowing full damn well they were going to. This is nothing but a political stunt.
Kneeling has become a political stunt now full on. Players are now coming out in droves w/ a predetermined notion to kneel mostly to oppose Trump.
Nice try. As I said, it’s a protest against social and racial injustices, but you conveniently deleted that part.
Do you think the recent 'spike' in kneel down participation is a response to social and racial injustices?
^^^ I didn't delete anything. I just amplified how wrong your statement was about why all these players are suddenly kneeling. It's anti-Trump now, no longer is it for protesting social and racial injustices. I would challenge any reporter to ask these players who they voted for on air.
^^^ I didn't delete anything. I just amplified how wrong your statement was about why all these players are suddenly kneeling. It's anti-Trump now, no longer is it for protesting social and racial injustices. I would challenge any reporter to ask these players who they voted for on air.
You’re misunderstanding. The fact that the kind of person who protests social and racial injustices is unlikely to have voted for Trump does not mean that their protest is against Trump, rather than social and racial injustices.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
He went to the game with a predetermined notion of leaving if any players knelt, knowing full damn well they were going to. This is nothing but a political stunt.
Kneeling has become a political stunt now full on. Players are now coming out in droves w/ a predetermined notion to kneel mostly to oppose Trump.
Nice try. As I said, it’s a protest against social and racial injustices, but you conveniently deleted that part.
Do you think the recent 'spike' in kneel down participation is a response to social and racial injustices?
^^^ I didn't delete anything. I just amplified how wrong your statement was about why all these players are suddenly kneeling. It's anti-Trump now, no longer is it for protesting social and racial injustices. I would challenge any reporter to ask these players who they voted for on air.
Meanwhile, this stunt cost taxpayers an estimated $500k - $1M dollars. All so Trump and Pence can make their idiot followers think it’s all about hating the President, the military, the flag, the anthem, & the country. The reality is they are people in power and they are trying to suppress the voices of black athletes. So yeah, it’s fucking about racial and social injustices.
Meanwhile, this stunt cost taxpayers an estimated $500k - $1M dollars. All so Trump and Pence can make their idiot followers think it’s all about hating the President, the military, the flag, the anthem, & the country. The reality is they are people in power and they are trying to suppress the voices of black athletes. So yeah, it’s fucking about racial and social injustices.
Make up your mind. They're suppressing voices of black athletes now? cmon.
He went to the game with a predetermined notion of leaving if any players knelt, knowing full damn well they were going to. This is nothing but a political stunt.
Kneeling has become a political stunt now full on. Players are now coming out in droves w/ a predetermined notion to kneel mostly to oppose Trump.
Nice try. As I said, it’s a protest against social and racial injustices, but you conveniently deleted that part.
Do you think the recent 'spike' in kneel down participation is a response to social and racial injustices?
That’s how effective protests work.
The dramatic 'spike' in participation levels most certainly are directed at Trump and concerning themselves more with individual freedoms versus police brutality.
Indirectly, Kap's protest and call to awareness has gained some traction given the league wide response to Trump and if this is what you mean... I'd be in agreement.
^^^ I didn't delete anything. I just amplified how wrong your statement was about why all these players are suddenly kneeling. It's anti-Trump now, no longer is it for protesting social and racial injustices. I would challenge any reporter to ask these players who they voted for on air.
You’re misunderstanding. The fact that the kind of person who protests social and racial injustices is unlikely to have voted for Trump does not mean that their protest is against Trump, rather than social and racial injustices.
I still would challenge any reporter to ask these kneelers who they voted for on air and to add, what they think of President Trump. I am not misunderstanding anything - the majority of these kneelings have become focused on Trump now under the guise of social and racial injustices. It's safe to kneel now.
^^^ I didn't delete anything. I just amplified how wrong your statement was about why all these players are suddenly kneeling. It's anti-Trump now, no longer is it for protesting social and racial injustices. I would challenge any reporter to ask these players who they voted for on air.
You’re misunderstanding. The fact that the kind of person who protests social and racial injustices is unlikely to have voted for Trump does not mean that their protest is against Trump, rather than social and racial injustices.
I still would challenge any reporter to ask these kneelers who they voted for on air and to add, what they think of President Trump. I am not misunderstanding anything - the majority of these kneelings have become focused on Trump now under the guise of social and racial injustices. It's safe to kneel now.
You said something similar on the Trump thread. I'm sure some see the protests as being Trump related but most? I doubt it. Someone is sure to take a poll.
This evening, we watched the classic film, In the Heat of the Night (iconic film!) and it got me to thinking about race issues. That film was made 50 years ago. It's release was postponed due to the assassination of Martin Luther King. It was a ground breaking film that was both a detective thriller and a social commentary on race relations. Watching that film today does illustrate that here in the U.S. some good strides have been made in race issues. That's great. But then I got to thinking, shit, that was 50 years ago. A HALF CENTURY AGO (oh, sorry for yelling!) But really, a half a fucking century since that film was made. Attitudes and prejudices were changing rapidly, things were getting better! But 50 FUCKING YEARS AGO (oops, yelling again- sorry!) and we still have race issues in this country? What the ever lovin' fuck?
Edit: Here's a prime example (sorry if I told this already). I was in a thrift store recently and this guy was yacking on his cell phone about how he had just been up to Apple Hill (an annual two month long commercial event where people come up from other p[arts of the state or even from out of state to visit and shop the craft booths, eat apple pie, enjoy the scenery etc., up here in the Sierra Foothills.
Anyway, this guy is talking loud enough for anyone in the store to hear him and he say, "Yeah, blah, blah, blah, oh, and there were even two BLACK PEOPLE UP THERE!"
I couldn't believe it. I thought, where the fuck do you think this is? Mars? So I said equally loudly, "BLACK PEOPLE? OH MY GOD! NOT BLACK PEOPLE! AHHHH! I GOTTA GET OUT OF HERE!"
No, I'm not normally that crazy acting but seriously, this clown just blew me away. People say shit like that? Again, what the ever lovin' fuck?
You just posted an article exclusively about the Cowboys owner saying he won’t tolerate disrespecting the flag - nothing to do with your preface about the goal of the kneeling.
Please read my previous response to you very carefully. A reporter asking who a kneeling citizen voted for accomplished exactly zero, and neither confirms nor denies the intent of their protests. It would be better to ask why the players are kneeling (which has been done), and the answer is always the same: to protest social and racial injustices.
I think you’ve been listening to trump for too long, because straightforward and logical answers don’t make sense to you; instead you desire a meandering and nonsensical ambiguous answer which you can draw conclusions from in the most convenient way to yourself.
Or, you know, you just came here to annoy by exclusively posting nonsensically (whether it’s your own nonsense or POTUS’).
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
^^^ It's pretty clear that the Cowboys can't kneel now or it will be considered disrespecting the flag and they will not be allowed to play. Yet some people here still think the keeling is only about social and racial injustices. It's straightforward and logical thinking to see it this way. The kneeling has become anti-Trump. Admit it.
Comments
-the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country". - how else would you suggest to recruit for military service? Unlike many countries our Military is fully volunteer. There is no required service.
you made my point.
1. If I have to take a humanist stance or a patriotic stance (and they are mutually exclusive), is it right to be a patriot or a humanist, and is it unpatriotic in that case to act as a humanist?
2. Is it patriotic to act in adherence to the values that my country claims to represent, if that adherence means acting against what is best for my country's military and/or government (i.e. if I feel that the military and/or government are not adhering to my country's values)?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Mike Pence leaves 49ers-Colts game over protesting during national anthem
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20955550/mike-pence-leaves-san-francisco-49ers-indianapolis-colts-game-protesting-national-anthem
What a snowflake.
"The pool reporter with the vice president had been told to stay outside the stadium and that Pence may leave the game early."
I'd be curious to know , at what point he left? was it after the anthem or during when he saw the constutionally protected protest, you know , the Constitution that he swore an oath to preserve and protect as VP?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
By the way, Nazis marched again yesterday in Virginia, but damn those kneeling players protesting social and racial injustices.
Fuck Mike Pence. Dumb fucker doesn’t even know better than to use a 3 year old photo when he tweets.
Do you think the recent 'spike' in kneel down participation is a response to social and racial injustices?
I didn't delete anything. I just amplified how wrong your statement was about why all these players are suddenly kneeling. It's anti-Trump now, no longer is it for protesting social and racial injustices. I would challenge any reporter to ask these players who they voted for on air.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The dramatic 'spike' in participation levels most certainly are directed at Trump and concerning themselves more with individual freedoms versus police brutality.
Indirectly, Kap's protest and call to awareness has gained some traction given the league wide response to Trump and if this is what you mean... I'd be in agreement.
I still would challenge any reporter to ask these kneelers who they voted for on air and to add, what they think of President Trump. I am not misunderstanding anything - the majority of these kneelings have become focused on Trump now under the guise of social and racial injustices. It's safe to kneel now.
This evening, we watched the classic film, In the Heat of the Night (iconic film!) and it got me to thinking about race issues. That film was made 50 years ago. It's release was postponed due to the assassination of Martin Luther King. It was a ground breaking film that was both a detective thriller and a social commentary on race relations. Watching that film today does illustrate that here in the U.S. some good strides have been made in race issues. That's great. But then I got to thinking, shit, that was 50 years ago. A HALF CENTURY AGO (oh, sorry for yelling!) But really, a half a fucking century since that film was made. Attitudes and prejudices were changing rapidly, things were getting better! But 50 FUCKING YEARS AGO (oops, yelling again- sorry!) and we still have race issues in this country? What the ever lovin' fuck?
Edit: Here's a prime example (sorry if I told this already). I was in a thrift store recently and this guy was yacking on his cell phone about how he had just been up to Apple Hill (an annual two month long commercial event where people come up from other p[arts of the state or even from out of state to visit and shop the craft booths, eat apple pie, enjoy the scenery etc., up here in the Sierra Foothills.
Anyway, this guy is talking loud enough for anyone in the store to hear him and he say, "Yeah, blah, blah, blah, oh, and there were even two BLACK PEOPLE UP THERE!"
I couldn't believe it. I thought, where the fuck do you think this is? Mars? So I said equally loudly, "BLACK PEOPLE? OH MY GOD! NOT BLACK PEOPLE! AHHHH! I GOTTA GET OUT OF HERE!"
No, I'm not normally that crazy acting but seriously, this clown just blew me away. People say shit like that? Again, what the ever lovin' fuck?
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/news/jerry-jones-cowboys-will-not-play-if-they-disrespect-flag/ar-AAt8NQn?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
Please read my previous response to you very carefully. A reporter asking who a kneeling citizen voted for accomplished exactly zero, and neither confirms nor denies the intent of their protests. It would be better to ask why the players are kneeling (which has been done), and the answer is always the same: to protest social and racial injustices.
I think you’ve been listening to trump for too long, because straightforward and logical answers don’t make sense to you; instead you desire a meandering and nonsensical ambiguous answer which you can draw conclusions from in the most convenient way to yourself.
Or, you know, you just came here to annoy by exclusively posting nonsensically (whether it’s your own nonsense or POTUS’).
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
It's pretty clear that the Cowboys can't kneel now or it will be considered disrespecting the flag and they will not be allowed to play. Yet some people here still think the keeling is only about social and racial injustices. It's straightforward and logical thinking to see it this way. The kneeling has become anti-Trump. Admit it.