Kaepernick

brianlux

Lets talk about it.

brianlux

Here's an article that poses some provocative questions:

Why is the national anthem a staple of sporting events to begin with?
Why does the United States stand apart in making the anthem a part of the pregame ritual?
And what does it mean to be patriotic?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/31/sports/football/colin-kaepernicks-anthem-protest-underlines-union-of-sports-and-patriotism.html?_r=0



One of the first times I became curious about this anthem custom was in the late 1960's and was introduced via another incident that took place in England quite a few years ago. My curiosity was sparked by this fascinating document of John Mayall and the Blues breakers playing "God Save the Queen". As Mayall put it, "A strange ballroom rule insisted we close the performance by playing "God Save the Queen". This would have to be the first and the last." (From the liner notes to "John Mayall, The Diary of a Band Volume 1". (Despite not-so-great sound quality, a record well worth tracking down):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BdjYzHdhl8

Degeneratefk

I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

lukin2006

He has every right to protest...if this is how he choose's to voice his displeasure then that is his right and makes him just as patriotic as flag waving athem singing patriots.

rgambs

I think it's pretty hilarious/infuriating that most of the people upset that he dared to suggest America isn't great are wearing red hats that say America isn't great.

PJPOWER

lukin2006 said:

He has every right to protest...if this is how he choose's to voice his displeasure then that is his right and makes him just as patriotic as flag waving athem singing patriots.

And his employers have every right to cut his ass for choosing to voice his displeasure in such a way.

rgambs

Degeneratefk said:

I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

That's just because your typical American idiot is so indoctrinated in faux patriotism they can't distinguish symbols from soldiers.

Cliffy6745

check out the hastag #veteransforkapernick. Pretty good stuff there.

Degeneratefk

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

That's just because your typical American idiot is so indoctrinated in faux patriotism they can't distinguish symbols from soldiers.

Ehh, that's not necessarily true. How a message is delivered is just as important as the message he's trying to send.

pjhawks

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

Degeneratefk

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

eddiec

The NFL has been shoving forced patriotism down American's necks for years so it is no surprise at all the backlash he is getting. I find it funny, nearly laughable, that he protests the treatment of minorities but the issue becomes him dishonoring veterans. When did our National Anthem become about individual soldiers and not the state of our nation as a whole?

pjhawks

eddiec said:

The NFL has been shoving forced patriotism down American's necks for years so it is no surprise at all the backlash he is getting. I find it funny, nearly laughable, that he protests the treatment of minorities but the issue becomes him dishonoring veterans. When did our National Anthem become about individual soldiers and not the state of our nation as a whole?

when it was written. check your history of the song.

eddiec

pjhawks said:

eddiec said:

The NFL has been shoving forced patriotism down American's necks for years so it is no surprise at all the backlash he is getting. I find it funny, nearly laughable, that he protests the treatment of minorities but the issue becomes him dishonoring veterans. When did our National Anthem become about individual soldiers and not the state of our nation as a whole?

when it was written. check your history of the song.

I know the history and it has been abused.

Cliffy6745

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Edit: And I personally thought what he had to say on the topic was pretty well thought out.

F Me In The Brain

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Cliffy6745

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

F Me In The Brain

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

If he was good it wouldn't be anything they would even consider cutting him over, let's be real. They held on to a pile of walking shit named Aldon Smith while he repeatedly messed up because they thought he could be a player. Once they realized his problems wouldn't allow that they dumped him.

Cliffy6745

The history of America for black folks is quite different than the history of America for white folks. I am shocked that this type of stuff doesn't happen more.

Cliffy6745

F Me In The Brain said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

If he was good it wouldn't be anything they would even consider cutting him over, let's be real. They held on to a pile of walking shit named Aldon Smith while he repeatedly messed up because they thought he could be a player. Once they realized his problems wouldn't allow that they dumped him.

Of course...

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

pjhawks

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Edit: And I personally thought what he had to say on the topic was pretty well thought out.

yes they did. they fought, they didn't sit on a bench. that's kind of the point right? as i said personally i think its disrespectful to those who fought for those freedoms. that's just my opinion and i know and respect that others don't necessarily share it. I agree his words on the topic were well thought out i just disagree with the action he is taking. these athletes do a lot of talking on social subjects yet never actually do anything.

josevolution

PJPOWER said:

lukin2006 said:

He has every right to protest...if this is how he choose's to voice his displeasure then that is his right and makes him just as patriotic as flag waving athem singing patriots.

And his employers have every right to cut his ass for choosing to voice his displeasure in such a way.

Yes they do but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to protest any way he chooses , pretty clear really..

Cliffy6745

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

rgambs

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

Cliffy6745

pjhawks said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Edit: And I personally thought what he had to say on the topic was pretty well thought out.

yes they did. they fought, they didn't sit on a bench. that's kind of the point right? as i said personally i think its disrespectful to those who fought for those freedoms. that's just my opinion and i know and respect that others don't necessarily share it. I agree his words on the topic were well thought out i just disagree with the action he is taking. these athletes do a lot of talking on social subjects yet never actually do anything.

I guess...I don't completely follow. They fought to protect the 1st amendment, so he shouldn't exercise his 1st amendment? I guess I just don't get the disrespectful aspect thing of this because what he is protesting has nothing to do with troops and has everything to do with how he feels about the current climate in the country.

This is pretty good stuff. Obviously plenty of veterans on the other side of this, I'm sure, but pretty powerful stuff

http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/08/us-veterans-rally-around-colin-kaepernick-using-veteransforkaepernick-twitter

lukin2006

PJPOWER said:

lukin2006 said:

He has every right to protest...if this is how he choose's to voice his displeasure then that is his right and makes him just as patriotic as flag waving athem singing patriots.

And his employers have every right to cut his ass for choosing to voice his displeasure in such a way.

Yes they do ...

Cliffy6745

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

I completely agree.

Cliffy6745

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Gern Blansten

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.