The Concept of God

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  • FoxyRedLa
    FoxyRedLa Lauren / MI Posts: 4,810
    rgambs said:
    What I meant was the belief in the Bible and the precepts it puts forward.

    It is that tradition which I reject strongly, much more so than broad ranges of belief in higher powers.
    I do believe in the Bible. I don't know it all.
    Oh please let it rain today.
    Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,661
    FoxyRedLa said:
    rgambs said:
    What I meant was the belief in the Bible and the precepts it puts forward.

    It is that tradition which I reject strongly, much more so than broad ranges of belief in higher powers.
    I do believe in the Bible. I don't know it all.
    Do you believe all of the stories (especially O.T.) are to be taken literally or figuratively?  For example, did Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego literally survive being thrown in a furnace or was that a metaphor for a test of their faith?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    FoxyRedLa said:
    rgambs said:
    What I meant was the belief in the Bible and the precepts it puts forward.

    It is that tradition which I reject strongly, much more so than broad ranges of belief in higher powers.
    I do believe in the Bible. I don't know it all.
    It is the Bible, specifically, that I reject with vehemence.
    I'm sure it isn't easy to hear, but I consider it a filthy piece of trash and it is incontrovertibly full of genocide, rape, slavery, and familial rape and slavery.
    At God's command much of the time.

    Yes, there are some beautiful and uplifting, helpful, constructive, and philosophically sound passages.
    No, I will not ignore or accept the filth that should have been ejected over the centuries through the ecumenical councils.

    Everything good in the Bible can be found elsewhere without the daughter slaving baggage that it brings to the table.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason is a great read for those who wish to seek a more righteous path without sacrificing faith and belief.  
    He slanders the Bible and Judeo-Christian beliefs masterfully in his endeavour to encourage people to believe in something that is actually worthy of belief.
    One of my favourite quotes: 
    "...and I moreover believe, that any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true."

    His response to Moses' command to execute thousands and take 32,000 of their girl children for sex slaves:
    "...it is a book of lies, wickedness, and blasphemy; for what can be greater blasphemy, than to ascribe the wickedness of man to the orders of the Almighty!"


    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rgambs said:
    FoxyRedLa said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    FoxyRedLa said:
    I don't remember everything in this thread - those that do not believe do you believe is Satan? Believe in hell? 

    I'm still thinking about Him being vain and needy. He died for us.

    Those that don't believe what do you believe? The Big Bang? That theory doesn't fully explain either.

    Has any none believer thought why they feel they have to actively convince believers He is not?
    Trying to be helpful?

    Believe what you want. If you aren't harming anyone or anything in any way... you can do as you please and be my friend as far as I'm concerned.

    One of my best friends is a devout Christian. Of course... twice a year... we will get into the discussion. But it is only a discussion. He's still the same friend after the discussion.
    Not sure what trying to be helpful was about.

    My apologies if I sparked a reaction. I thought we were discussing and I haven't ever asked a none believer any questions before because I too the same don't care not my business. 

    I too have friends that don't believe or are on the fense. We don't discuss the topic mostly because I'm a hermit. Sometimes I don't like to talk.
    I believe thirty was saying that atheists try to turn believers around to be helpful, as a light-hearted joke.
    No transgression on your part, it's good to have you in the discussion!
    It's a tough discussion to have for believers, much of the argument for atheism can be inherently offensive to believers, but it might help if you remember that the argument for belief can be inherently offensive to non-believers as well.  We all have a different perspective, explaining and comparing those differences is illustrative to ourselves and those with whom we share the discussion.
    RG knows me well.

    My comment was subtle humour.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • FoxyRedLa
    FoxyRedLa Lauren / MI Posts: 4,810

    HughFreakingDillon said:
    FoxyRedLa said:
    I don't remember everything in this thread - those that do not believe do you believe is Satan? Believe in hell? 

    I'm still thinking about Him being vain and needy. He died for us.

    Those that don't believe what do you believe? The Big Bang? That theory doesn't fully explain either.

    Has any none believer thought why they feel they have to actively convince believers He is not?
    this has come up before. i don't know any atheists that try to actively convince others there is no god. people have discussions, but no atheist is going door to door saying 'hey, i'd like to talk to you about no god'. 

    the vain and needy thing, i believe, comes from the stories in the bible where god insists everyone listen to him and obey him and then he kills nearly everyone for forgetting about him. 

    the big bang doesn't fully explain it, no. but, i have also read that some scientists are moving away from that theory, that there was no beginning to the universe. just 'always there', which is the same thing people say about god, ironically. 
    I get your point about going door  to door.

    Referring to the flood? All were offered to come aboard. 
    Oh please let it rain today.
    Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
  • FoxyRedLa
    FoxyRedLa Lauren / MI Posts: 4,810

    rgambs said:
    FoxyRedLa said:
    rgambs said:
    What I meant was the belief in the Bible and the precepts it puts forward.

    It is that tradition which I reject strongly, much more so than broad ranges of belief in higher powers.
    I do believe in the Bible. I don't know it all.
    It is the Bible, specifically, that I reject with vehemence.
    I'm sure it isn't easy to hear, but I consider it a filthy piece of trash and it is incontrovertibly full of genocide, rape, slavery, and familial rape and slavery.
    At God's command much of the time.

    Yes, there are some beautiful and uplifting, helpful, constructive, and philosophically sound passages.
    No, I will not ignore or accept the filth that should have been ejected over the centuries through the ecumenical councils.

    Everything good in the Bible can be found elsewhere without the daughter slaving baggage that it brings to the table.

    It's not hard to hear. I don't know all in the Bible. I'm still learning. 
    Oh please let it rain today.
    Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
  • FoxyRedLa
    FoxyRedLa Lauren / MI Posts: 4,810

    brianlux said:
    FoxyRedLa said:
    rgambs said:
    What I meant was the belief in the Bible and the precepts it puts forward.

    It is that tradition which I reject strongly, much more so than broad ranges of belief in higher powers.
    I do believe in the Bible. I don't know it all.
    Do you believe all of the stories (especially O.T.) are to be taken literally or figuratively?  For example, did Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego literally survive being thrown in a furnace or was that a metaphor for a test of their faith?
    Literally. 
    Oh please let it rain today.
    Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    FoxyRedLa said:

    rgambs said:
    FoxyRedLa said:
    rgambs said:
    What I meant was the belief in the Bible and the precepts it puts forward.

    It is that tradition which I reject strongly, much more so than broad ranges of belief in higher powers.
    I do believe in the Bible. I don't know it all.
    It is the Bible, specifically, that I reject with vehemence.
    I'm sure it isn't easy to hear, but I consider it a filthy piece of trash and it is incontrovertibly full of genocide, rape, slavery, and familial rape and slavery.
    At God's command much of the time.

    Yes, there are some beautiful and uplifting, helpful, constructive, and philosophically sound passages.
    No, I will not ignore or accept the filth that should have been ejected over the centuries through the ecumenical councils.

    Everything good in the Bible can be found elsewhere without the daughter slaving baggage that it brings to the table.

    It's not hard to hear. I don't know all in the Bible. I'm still learning. 
    You don't want to learn from me lol 
    I know all the verses that made Hitler blush, and there sure are a few!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,344
    edited May 2017
    did not grow up in a religious household although I recall a bible on the bookshelf next to the set of world book encyclopedia we had.


    never felt "at home" in a church
    at least not with other people present.

    had a non specific concept loosely based on judeochristian principles. suppose that cpncept remains but further from that particular ideology.

    at present I am agnostic but lean toward something at work, just what that something is I have no idea. Have had several experiences that were deeply profound to me that co-incidence fails miserably to explain.

    I do have to say I feel an affinity for native spiritual philosophies as well as eastern principles. those make sense to me
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
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  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    I remember being in Sunday school at around 5 or so thinking 'everybody is buying this'.  Always seemed weird.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Smellyman said:
    I remember being in Sunday school at around 5 or so thinking 'everybody is buying this'.  Always seemed weird.
    Yeah, in kindergarten I was given a pamphlet that literally showed screaming children falling into the flaming pit of hell in vivid colour and detail.  One of the sins listed was lying which I was obviously guilty of, as all children are.
    I cried and cried and couldn't sleep that night, I didn't want to tell my parents because I was ashamed that I was going to hell.

    How fucked up is that??
    Very fucked up thing to be teaching 5 year olds. 
    Fuck that, I will tell my newly Catholic 5 year old niece it's a pile of stinky poop lies if it ever comes up, her parents can deal with it. 
    My son won't be having his head filled with filthy garbage like that, I'll be damned (haha) if I let that happen.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,450
    FoxyRedLa said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:
    FoxyRedLa said:
    I don't remember everything in this thread - those that do not believe do you believe is Satan? Believe in hell? 

    I'm still thinking about Him being vain and needy. He died for us.

    Those that don't believe what do you believe? The Big Bang? That theory doesn't fully explain either.

    Has any none believer thought why they feel they have to actively convince believers He is not?
    this has come up before. i don't know any atheists that try to actively convince others there is no god. people have discussions, but no atheist is going door to door saying 'hey, i'd like to talk to you about no god'. 

    the vain and needy thing, i believe, comes from the stories in the bible where god insists everyone listen to him and obey him and then he kills nearly everyone for forgetting about him. 

    the big bang doesn't fully explain it, no. but, i have also read that some scientists are moving away from that theory, that there was no beginning to the universe. just 'always there', which is the same thing people say about god, ironically. 
    I get your point about going door  to door.

    Referring to the flood? All were offered to come aboard. 
    not from what i recall reading. if they were all offered to come aboard, what was the point in the first place?
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    FoxyRedLa said:

    rgambs said:
    If God showed himself, there would be incontrovertible evidence for His existence and every atheist I know would acknowledge that.
    It wouldn't be belief, it would be knowledge.
    The reason I ask is I wonder if it would just then be said to be a hoax. Like the laugh I got above. Seems someone would just find a way to talk it away.
    Like fake news? :lol:
    But seriously foxyredla, at some point in this thread, probably now, it is time for you to tell us some miracles you have witnessed god do since the people who wrote the bible have such vivid visuals of the makings.  We get it, you believe but time to give some evidence.
  • Attaway77
    Attaway77 Posts: 3,703
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
    FoxyRedLa said:

    rgambs said:
    If God showed himself, there would be incontrovertible evidence for His existence and every atheist I know would acknowledge that.
    It wouldn't be belief, it would be knowledge.
    The reason I ask is I wonder if it would just then be said to be a hoax. Like the laugh I got above. Seems someone would just find a way to talk it away.
    Like fake news? :lol:
    But seriously foxyredla, at some point in this thread, probably now, it is time for you to tell us some miracles you have witnessed god do since the people who wrote the bible have such vivid visuals of the makings.  We get it, you believe but time to give some evidence.
    Why does she need to convince you of any miracles she's received? This is where agree to disagree comes into play. We all have our beliefs, some of us believe in God, others don't. This conversation is just starting to drag on. 
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  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    OP
    You had to have known that at some point this thread would turn into believers vs non-believers. 
    There once was  concept the earth was flat, there are still flat earthers out there.
    At some point you have to stop giving stage to the beliefs of some that they believe that there is hell to burn in all eternity for sinning yet they don't think that it is child abuse to rear one believing so.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,661
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
    OP
    You had to have known that at some point this thread would turn into believers vs non-believers. 
    There once was  concept the earth was flat, there are still flat earthers out there.
    At some point you have to stop giving stage to the beliefs of some that they believe that there is hell to burn in all eternity for sinning yet they don't think that it is child abuse to rear one believing so.
    So you don't believe in hell?  Well!

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
    Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Attaway77 said:
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
    FoxyRedLa said:

    rgambs said:
    If God showed himself, there would be incontrovertible evidence for His existence and every atheist I know would acknowledge that.
    It wouldn't be belief, it would be knowledge.
    The reason I ask is I wonder if it would just then be said to be a hoax. Like the laugh I got above. Seems someone would just find a way to talk it away.
    Like fake news? :lol:
    But seriously foxyredla, at some point in this thread, probably now, it is time for you to tell us some miracles you have witnessed god do since the people who wrote the bible have such vivid visuals of the makings.  We get it, you believe but time to give some evidence.
    Why does she need to convince you of any miracles she's received? This is where agree to disagree comes into play. We all have our beliefs, some of us believe in God, others don't. This conversation is just starting to drag on. 
    The conversation isn't dragging, if you have nothing to add and don't like what's being said, that's fine for you, but don't blame it on the conversation.
    Agree to disagree is a solution that only needs put in play when civility is lost, otherwise it is just shutting down discourse.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    rgambs said:
    There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
    Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
    I agree.
    I also disagree that non-believers have to constantly give an opinion as to every single belief of the bible that someone presents to them.  If that is taken as bashing well sorry, but people ought to know what they get into when discussing religion.

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