The Concept of God

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

erocshifty said:

I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..

The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.

One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol. 

I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?

I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop. 

I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection.
Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing.
It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.

rgambs

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.

this is funny.

Care to elaborate?

theres no need. you said it all. barly?

I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me.  Barly?  Yagi?  
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.

rgambs

FoxyRedLa said:

Morning rgambs - morning here

My first thought was you said bash religion all you want :giggle:

I don't really believe in topics of conversation being taboo.
Respectful discourse shouldn't be bound by strictures, particularly in the case of religion, where the strictures are often put in place because the pro-religion side has little rebuttal and so seeks to limit the anti-religious argument with emotional pleas.

mcgruff10

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

erocshifty said:

I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..

The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.

One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol. 

I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?

I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop. 

I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection.
Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing.
It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.

It's worth a try but for some reason the catholic church is stuck in the way past.  

rustneversleeps

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.

this is funny.

Care to elaborate?

theres no need. you said it all. barly?

I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me.  Barly?  Yagi?  
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.

nevermind then.  

rgambs

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.

this is funny.

Care to elaborate?

theres no need. you said it all. barly?

I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me.  Barly?  Yagi?  
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.

nevermind then.  

Ok lol
I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!

erocshifty

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

erocshifty said:

I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..

The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.

One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol. 

I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?

I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop. 

I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection.
Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing.
It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.

It's worth a try but for some reason the catholic church is stuck in the way past.  

I've never understood how the people that killed Christ are the "authority" of his message. They stole some of their symbols (Mary standing on a crescent moon, for example) from Paganism. They also protect these perverts that molest children from the law and give them "therapy", as well as relocation. Definitely not a fan. 

Smellyman

rgambs said:

FoxyRedLa said:

I don't remember everything in this thread - those that do not believe do you believe is Satan? Believe in hell? 

I'm still thinking about Him being vain and needy. He died for us.

Those that don't believe what do you believe? The Big Bang? That theory doesn't fully explain either.

Has any none believer thought why they feel they have to actively convince believers He is not?

Do not believe in Satan or Hell.  That is what started me down the path of atheism.
Why would God allow someone he can destroy to continue existing with the purpose of separating us from His love?
How on Earth can we worship a deity which threatens to torture us for eternity if we displease Him?

He is vain and needy, if He exists.  Hundreds of times He commands us to worship him, love him, forsake all others, don't dare to speak ill of him, and spread his name, all under penalty of eternal torture.
"He died for us" 
That part of the story is incredibly convoluted and makes no sense.
God split a piece off of himself that is an autonomous, separate being that is somehow still him.  Then he sends that being that is Himself to Earth to experience bodily torture resulting in physical death for the benefit of everyone.  How does that make sense?  God decided He had to make a sacrifice of a piece of Himself so that He can forgive the transgressions of others?  Only to have Himself back by His side in paradise anyways, just after having endured torture.  What am arbitrary setup, if He has the capacity to forgive, then forgive, don't go through some convoluted symbolic scheme.

The Big Bang is an explanation for how the universe erupted from a singularity, not a theory for the explanation of existence.  There are many theories on that topic, but no credible evidence so far.  At that multiversal, epic scale of existence, I am willing to acknowledge a spark which some would identify as God, though I am entirely unwilling to believe it is the patriarchal, terribly flawed deity described by Judeo-Christian tradition.  That deity isn't fit to be a father of one child, let alone father to billions and creator of existence.

Your final question.
The answer is the same as why people who believe want to actively convince other to do so as well.
We think we know the root of others' suffering and we think we know a better path toward alleviating that suffering.
The only difference is there are a gazillion times more people on your side, and they use fear and manipulative tactics as opposed to evidence and logic.

This just needs to be quoted again.  Very well said and better than I could ever do.

HughFreakingDillon

again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two. 

rustneversleeps

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.

this is funny.

Care to elaborate?

theres no need. you said it all. barly?

I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me.  Barly?  Yagi?  
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.

nevermind then.  

Ok lol
I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!

do you actually laugh out loud at yourself as often as you type those letters? 

are you people still arguing about God? havent you had this discussion 1000 times over? Poupon?

oftenreading

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.

this is funny.

Care to elaborate?

theres no need. you said it all. barly?

I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me.  Barly?  Yagi?  
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.

nevermind then.  

Ok lol
I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!

do you actually laugh out loud at yourself as often as you type those letters? 

are you people still arguing about God? havent you had this discussion 1000 times over? Poupon?

It's called a discussion. People have been discussing this for thousands of years. Some people make this a primary field of study, in fact.

And.... Dijon!

rgambs

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.

this is funny.

Care to elaborate?

theres no need. you said it all. barly?

I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me.  Barly?  Yagi?  
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.

nevermind then.  

Ok lol
I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!

do you actually laugh out loud at yourself as often as you type those letters? 

are you people still arguing about God? havent you had this discussion 1000 times over? Poupon?

You never tire of trolling the boards so I don't see why we should tire of having intellectual discussions LOL
If you feel left out you are welcome to go elsewhere, it's a big internet with plenty of bridges to dwell under and tolls to extract LOL

rustneversleeps

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.

this is funny.

Care to elaborate?

theres no need. you said it all. barly?

I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me.  Barly?  Yagi?  
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.

nevermind then.  

Ok lol
I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!

do you actually laugh out loud at yourself as often as you type those letters? 

are you people still arguing about God? havent you had this discussion 1000 times over? Poupon?

You never tire of trolling the boards so I don't see why we should tire of having intellectual discussions LOL
If you feel left out you are welcome to go elsewhere, it's a big internet with plenty of bridges to dwell under and tolls to extract LOL

i wouldnt engage in an intellectual discussion with you if we were the last 2 humans on earth.  

rustneversleeps

oftenreading said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil.
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.

this is funny.

Care to elaborate?

theres no need. you said it all. barly?

I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me.  Barly?  Yagi?  
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.

nevermind then.  

Ok lol
I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!

do you actually laugh out loud at yourself as often as you type those letters? 

are you people still arguing about God? havent you had this discussion 1000 times over? Poupon?

It's called a discussion. People have been discussing this for thousands of years. Some people make this a primary field of study, in fact.

And.... Dijon!

dijon, eh?

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two. 

I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task.
Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other.
Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?

mcgruff10

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two. 

I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task.
Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other.
Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?

So after you conquered that hard ass route outside of Innsbruck you didn't look out into the horizon or down at the trail you just came up and thought about god just a little?

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two. 

I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task.
Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other.
Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?

So after you conquered that hard ass route outside of Innsbruck you didn't look out into the horizon or down at the trail you just came up and thought about god just a little?

Honestly, not even a little bit.
When life is great I am the type of person who just accepts the positivity without much thought, I am the embodiment of the cliché "live in the moment".
I've never felt like I owed thanks to any higher power for the fortune in my life, it's always felt like a natural part of that life, just as misfortune is.

I did, however, think about God when a stormy looking cloud rolled by and we were dangerously exposed.
When I need or want luck, when shit hits the fan and the window for success is narrowing, that's when I feel the pull toward faith.  I suppose that's part of why I don't trust that pull to faith, because it seems like such a natural, but naïve tendancy.  It's easy to feel God when you need to, but what about when you don't need to?  Where is that pull?  It isn't in me, for whatever reason.

PJfanwillneverleave1

How can you separate the concept of god w/ out discussing religion?  This thread can't be discussed unless all angles are discussed.  The root cause if you will. You can't have a concept of god w/ out religion no matter how intellectual you may be.

mcgruff10

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two. 

I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task.
Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other.
Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?

So after you conquered that hard ass route outside of Innsbruck you didn't look out into the horizon or down at the trail you just came up and thought about god just a little?

Honestly, not even a little bit.
When life is great I am the type of person who just accepts the positivity without much thought, I am the embodiment of the cliché "live in the moment".
I've never felt like I owed thanks to any higher power for the fortune in my life, it's always felt like a natural part of that life, just as misfortune is.

I did, however, think about God when a stormy looking cloud rolled by and we were dangerously exposed.
When I need or want luck, when shit hits the fan and the window for success is narrowing, that's when I feel the pull toward faith.  I suppose that's part of why I don't trust that pull to faith, because it seems like such a natural, but naïve tendancy.  It's easy to feel God when you need to, but what about when you don't need to?  Where is that pull?  It isn't in me, for whatever reason.

A most excellent answer!  
I ve experienced what I call "god s reasoning" a few times. (So I think!)

FoxyRedLa

He will not stop loving you, perusing you.