I remember being in Sunday school at around 5 or so thinking 'everybody is buying this'. Always seemed weird.
Yeah, in kindergarten I was given a pamphlet that literally showed screaming children falling into the flaming pit of hell in vivid colour and detail. One of the sins listed was lying which I was obviously guilty of, as all children are. I cried and cried and couldn't sleep that night, I didn't want to tell my parents because I was ashamed that I was going to hell.
How fucked up is that?? Very fucked up thing to be teaching 5 year olds. Fuck that, I will tell my newly Catholic 5 year old niece it's a pile of stinky poop lies if it ever comes up, her parents can deal with it. My son won't be having his head filled with filthy garbage like that, I'll be damned (haha) if I let that happen.
I don't remember everything in this thread - those that do not believe do you believe is Satan? Believe in hell?
I'm still thinking about Him being vain and needy. He died for us.
Those that don't believe what do you believe? The Big Bang? That theory doesn't fully explain either.
Has any none believer thought why they feel they have to actively convince believers He is not?
this has come up before. i don't know any atheists that try to actively convince others there is no god. people have discussions, but no atheist is going door to door saying 'hey, i'd like to talk to you about no god'.
the vain and needy thing, i believe, comes from the stories in the bible where god insists everyone listen to him and obey him and then he kills nearly everyone for forgetting about him.
the big bang doesn't fully explain it, no. but, i have also read that some scientists are moving away from that theory, that there was no beginning to the universe. just 'always there', which is the same thing people say about god, ironically.
I get your point about going door to door.
Referring to the flood? All were offered to come aboard.
not from what i recall reading. if they were all offered to come aboard, what was the point in the first place?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
If God showed himself, there would be incontrovertible evidence for His existence and every atheist I know would acknowledge that. It wouldn't be belief, it would be knowledge.
The reason I ask is I wonder if it would just then be said to be a hoax. Like the laugh I got above. Seems someone would just find a way to talk it away.
Like fake news? But seriously foxyredla, at some point in this thread, probably now, it is time for you to tell us some miracles you have witnessed god do since the people who wrote the bible have such vivid visuals of the makings. We get it, you believe but time to give some evidence.
If God showed himself, there would be incontrovertible evidence for His existence and every atheist I know would acknowledge that. It wouldn't be belief, it would be knowledge.
The reason I ask is I wonder if it would just then be said to be a hoax. Like the laugh I got above. Seems someone would just find a way to talk it away.
Like fake news? But seriously foxyredla, at some point in this thread, probably now, it is time for you to tell us some miracles you have witnessed god do since the people who wrote the bible have such vivid visuals of the makings. We get it, you believe but time to give some evidence.
Why does she need to convince you of any miracles she's received? This is where agree to disagree comes into play. We all have our beliefs, some of us believe in God, others don't. This conversation is just starting to drag on.
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OP You had to have known that at some point this thread would turn into believers vs non-believers. There once was concept the earth was flat, there are still flat earthers out there. At some point you have to stop giving stage to the beliefs of some that they believe that there is hell to burn in all eternity for sinning yet they don't think that it is child abuse to rear one believing so.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
OP You had to have known that at some point this thread would turn into believers vs non-believers. There once was concept the earth was flat, there are still flat earthers out there. At some point you have to stop giving stage to the beliefs of some that they believe that there is hell to burn in all eternity for sinning yet they don't think that it is child abuse to rear one believing so.
So you don't believe in hell? Well!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
If God showed himself, there would be incontrovertible evidence for His existence and every atheist I know would acknowledge that. It wouldn't be belief, it would be knowledge.
The reason I ask is I wonder if it would just then be said to be a hoax. Like the laugh I got above. Seems someone would just find a way to talk it away.
Like fake news? But seriously foxyredla, at some point in this thread, probably now, it is time for you to tell us some miracles you have witnessed god do since the people who wrote the bible have such vivid visuals of the makings. We get it, you believe but time to give some evidence.
Why does she need to convince you of any miracles she's received? This is where agree to disagree comes into play. We all have our beliefs, some of us believe in God, others don't. This conversation is just starting to drag on.
The conversation isn't dragging, if you have nothing to add and don't like what's being said, that's fine for you, but don't blame it on the conversation. Agree to disagree is a solution that only needs put in play when civility is lost, otherwise it is just shutting down discourse.
There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil. Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
I agree. I also disagree that non-believers have to constantly give an opinion as to every single belief of the bible that someone presents to them. If that is taken as bashing well sorry, but people ought to know what they get into when discussing religion.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Yeah, discussing faith, beliefs etc. is fine. Great, actually. It can stimulate the mind. But both insisting others accept one's fundamentalist beliefs or hammering on someone who has them is not only fruitless, it's what eventually leads to wars, bloodshed, death, and a hell of a lot of pollution (literally and figuratively).
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Yeah, discussing faith, beliefs etc. is fine. Great, actually. It can stimulate the mind. But both insisting others accept one's fundamentalist beliefs or hammering on someone who has them is not only fruitless, it's what eventually leads to wars, bloodshed, death, and a hell of a lot of pollution (literally and figuratively).
Amen brother, and I would take you on my ark anytime.
There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil. Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
I agree. I also disagree that non-believers have to constantly give an opinion as to every single belief of the bible that someone presents to them. If that is taken as bashing well sorry, but people ought to know what they get into when discussing religion.
If you don't want to give an opinion, feel free to go elsewhere. It's impossible to have a discussion on religion if you can't respect the participants and not demand they witness miracles for you. Your tact is middle school level. If you want someone to think about the validity of their beliefs, highlight the failings of those beliefs.
Genesis Chapter 20 Verse 20-21 That does more in a single phrase than a lifetime of asking people to tell about their miracles and then disbelieving them anyways.
I don't remember everything in this thread - those that do not believe do you believe is Satan? Believe in hell?
I'm still thinking about Him being vain and needy. He died for us.
Those that don't believe what do you believe? The Big Bang? That theory doesn't fully explain either.
Has any none believer thought why they feel they have to actively convince believers He is not?
this has come up before. i don't know any atheists that try to actively convince others there is no god. people have discussions, but no atheist is going door to door saying 'hey, i'd like to talk to you about no god'.
the vain and needy thing, i believe, comes from the stories in the bible where god insists everyone listen to him and obey him and then he kills nearly everyone for forgetting about him.
the big bang doesn't fully explain it, no. but, i have also read that some scientists are moving away from that theory, that there was no beginning to the universe. just 'always there', which is the same thing people say about god, ironically.
I get your point about going door to door.
Referring to the flood? All were offered to come aboard.
not from what i recall reading. if they were all offered to come aboard, what was the point in the first place?
I guess it's assumed he warned about the flood. The point would have been a second chance.
Evil was wiped out. We are warned it will happen again.
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil. Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
I agree. I also disagree that non-believers have to constantly give an opinion as to every single belief of the bible that someone presents to them. If that is taken as bashing well sorry, but people ought to know what they get into when discussing religion.
If you don't want to give an opinion, feel free to go elsewhere. It's impossible to have a discussion on religion if you can't respect the participants and not demand they witness miracles for you. Your tact is middle school level. If you want someone to think about the validity of their beliefs, highlight the failings of those beliefs.
Genesis Chapter 20 Verse 20-21 That does more in a single phrase than a lifetime of asking people to tell about their miracles and then disbelieving them anyways.
Now you're quoting bible verses for people to read? Are you ok man?
There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil. Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
I agree. I also disagree that non-believers have to constantly give an opinion as to every single belief of the bible that someone presents to them. If that is taken as bashing well sorry, but people ought to know what they get into when discussing religion.
If you don't want to give an opinion, feel free to go elsewhere. It's impossible to have a discussion on religion if you can't respect the participants and not demand they witness miracles for you. Your tact is middle school level. If you want someone to think about the validity of their beliefs, highlight the failings of those beliefs.
Genesis Chapter 20 Verse 20-21 That does more in a single phrase than a lifetime of asking people to tell about their miracles and then disbelieving them anyways.
Now you're quoting bible verses for people to read? Are you ok man?
Yep, I'm groovy. Read it, you might learn something about how to debate civilly and with tact.
There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil. Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
I agree. I also disagree that non-believers have to constantly give an opinion as to every single belief of the bible that someone presents to them. If that is taken as bashing well sorry, but people ought to know what they get into when discussing religion.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
"It's best to live in grace before you're forced to." EV- 10/09/2014
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop.
Comments
I cried and cried and couldn't sleep that night, I didn't want to tell my parents because I was ashamed that I was going to hell.
How fucked up is that??
Very fucked up thing to be teaching 5 year olds.
Fuck that, I will tell my newly Catholic 5 year old niece it's a pile of stinky poop lies if it ever comes up, her parents can deal with it.
My son won't be having his head filled with filthy garbage like that, I'll be damned (haha) if I let that happen.
-EV 8/14/93
But seriously foxyredla, at some point in this thread, probably now, it is time for you to tell us some miracles you have witnessed god do since the people who wrote the bible have such vivid visuals of the makings. We get it, you believe but time to give some evidence.
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2016 Ft. Lauderdale (4/8) Miami (4/9) Hampton (4/18) Philly (4/28,4/29) NY (5/1,5/2) 2018 Seattle (8/10) Missoula (8/13) 2022 Nashville (9/16)
E.V. - 2008 Berkeley (4/8) 2012 Austin (11/9,11/12)
Temple of the Dog - 2016 Upper Darby
You had to have known that at some point this thread would turn into believers vs non-believers.
There once was concept the earth was flat, there are still flat earthers out there.
At some point you have to stop giving stage to the beliefs of some that they believe that there is hell to burn in all eternity for sinning yet they don't think that it is child abuse to rear one believing so.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
Agree to disagree is a solution that only needs put in play when civility is lost, otherwise it is just shutting down discourse.
I also disagree that non-believers have to constantly give an opinion as to every single belief of the bible that someone presents to them. If that is taken as bashing well sorry, but people ought to know what they get into when discussing religion.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It's impossible to have a discussion on religion if you can't respect the participants and not demand they witness miracles for you.
Your tact is middle school level. If you want someone to think about the validity of their beliefs, highlight the failings of those beliefs.
Genesis Chapter 20 Verse 20-21
That does more in a single phrase than a lifetime of asking people to tell about their miracles and then disbelieving them anyways.
I never said they witness a personal miracle. I said witness a miracle.
I guess it's assumed he warned about the flood. The point would have been a second chance.
Evil was wiped out. We are warned it will happen again.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Are you ok man?
Read it, you might learn something about how to debate civilly and with tact.
we will find a way, we will find our place
except this thread isnt about religion.
dont conflate tbe two.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
My first thought was you said bash religion all you want
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.