The Concept of God

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

It's incredibly complicated in the details of the execution, but the concept is simple.
Measure a small volume (x) of something (y) in easily quantifiable scale, and then measure x in a larger but still quantifiable scale, multiply by y, and continue the process into wild realms of estimation.

yes, I get that, I just don't understand how we can conceive what the observable universe is. I mean, it's so fucking big, how in the world can we make an accurate assessment? if you are basing your first calculation on an estimate, that in turn means your 100th cacluation could be not even close to right. 

either way, it's mind boggling. just whenever I read something that says "the edge of the universe" or "it is ever-expanding". What? expanding into what? if it's expanding, there's something there for it to expand into....right? if you got the edge of the universe, would it be like bumping into a wall, or looking through a window?

I need some weed for this conversation.

I often wonder if the edge of the universe - if there is an edge - is like a Pac-Man board?  You run off the right edge, you end up back on the left edge and vice-versa.

That sort of thing is the most likely scenario.
Picture a 3 dimensional sphere like a soap bubble.
Now, this is tough sometimes, but think of our 3 dimensional space existing as the bubble membrane, and the air inside the bubble is not dimensional space, but interdimensional space, which is to say, not space at all.
When you pick a direction and travel infinitely with the intention of finding the edge, you will infinitely continue to curve around that edge without finding it.

oh jesus. I take it you've done some thinking in this area. 

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

It's incredibly complicated in the details of the execution, but the concept is simple.
Measure a small volume (x) of something (y) in easily quantifiable scale, and then measure x in a larger but still quantifiable scale, multiply by y, and continue the process into wild realms of estimation.

yes, I get that, I just don't understand how we can conceive what the observable universe is. I mean, it's so fucking big, how in the world can we make an accurate assessment? if you are basing your first calculation on an estimate, that in turn means your 100th cacluation could be not even close to right. 

either way, it's mind boggling. just whenever I read something that says "the edge of the universe" or "it is ever-expanding". What? expanding into what? if it's expanding, there's something there for it to expand into....right? if you got the edge of the universe, would it be like bumping into a wall, or looking through a window?

I need some weed for this conversation.

I often wonder if the edge of the universe - if there is an edge - is like a Pac-Man board?  You run off the right edge, you end up back on the left edge and vice-versa.

That sort of thing is the most likely scenario.
Picture a 3 dimensional sphere like a soap bubble.
Now, this is tough sometimes, but think of our 3 dimensional space existing as the bubble membrane, and the air inside the bubble is not dimensional space, but interdimensional space, which is to say, not space at all.
When you pick a direction and travel infinitely with the intention of finding the edge, you will infinitely continue to curve around that edge without finding it.

oh jesus. I take it you've done some thinking in this area. 

Nope, I've done some reading on the topic, I've done a shit ton of thinking about it lol
Many bongwater-scented hours!

Asking what the universe is expanding into is just a function of the limitations of our human minds.
The problem isn't with the answer, it's probably that the question is all wrong, being based on substantial conceptual limitations.

Gern Blansten

I tell people I'm agnostic but I'm technically an atheist.  Basic research let's you destroy the christian trinity myth pretty easily.  

God(s) was how cavemen justified thunder and lightning.  That's pretty much how it started.

rgambs

Usually when you hear about the edge, it's the observable edge, because the universe has expanded faster than the speed of light, so you can't see the edge, ever.

mcgruff10

I m Irish catholic. I believe in god and heaven and hell.  That is all 

rgambs

mcgruff10 said:

I m Irish catholic. I believe in god and heaven and hell.  That is all 

That's a bummer lol

mcgruff10

rgambs said:

mcgruff10 said:

I m Irish catholic. I believe in god and heaven and hell.  That is all 

That's a bummer lol

Ha ha!  All good bud. Enjoy your three day weekend. I m sipping a nice IPA as I type.  

Nami

mcgruff10 said:

I m Irish catholic. I believe in god and heaven and hell.  That is all 

im with mcgruff

question, do the people in this thread believe they have a soul?   

rgambs

Nami said:

mcgruff10 said:

I m Irish catholic. I believe in god and heaven and hell.  That is all 

im with mcgruff

question, do the people in this thread believe they have a soul?   

You would have to define soul to be sure, but in the typical Christian sense, absolutely and definitively, no.

Traumatic brain injuries can change fundamental aspects of a person that typically fall under the umbrella of the soul.

rgambs

If a trauma to the brain can change me entirely, what part of me is disconnected from my biology to an extent which it would survive my biological death?

Nami

ok how about a soul in general?   One that deciphers good from bad, whats wrong or right?

I asked my parents, no hits to the head when younger.... nothing from drugs/alcohol.... had the belief before and after.  ha

Smellyman

Amazing to me this is a legit conversation.

rgambs

Nami said:

ok how about a soul in general?   One that deciphers good from bad, whats wrong or right?

I asked my parents, no hits to the head when younger.... nothing from drugs/alcohol.... had the belief before and after.  ha

No, absolutely not.
Determining what is right and wrong is a cognitive function, it arises from the ability to analyze the world to a high degree.  A soul would need to be independent of the corporeal body to survive biological death, there is no evidence that such a force exists.  Human consciousness can be manipulated by physical stimuli, so where is the soul and what does it do if it has nothing to do with how you think, behave, and feel?
Does it make more sense that a cockroach doesn't know right from wrong because it has a small brain, or does it make more sense that God decided to make living creatures with souls and other living creatures without souls?

brianlux

Annafalk said:

brianlux said:

Annafalk said:

Isn't it possible that a belief in God can make a person happier and more comfortable in it's life. To have someone that's always there who hear every thought and knows everything about you.

I can see that.  It's why I have a cat.

Lol

I love it! 

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^

It takes a special someone to love a cat because they sure as hell don't love you.
(If I believed in hell of course)

Annafalk

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^

It takes a special someone to love a cat because they sure as hell don't love you.
(If I believed in hell of course)

I think they do. For example when I moved out from my parents house "my" cat disappeared, he ran away from home for three weeks. Then he came back. I think it's maybe possible that he was searching for me. Ok he was probably not looking for me but I know we were good friends.

brianlux

Annafalk said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^

It takes a special someone to love a cat because they sure as hell don't love you.
(If I believed in hell of course)

I think they do. For example when I moved out from my parents house "my" cat disappeared, he ran away from home for three weeks. Then he came back. I think it's maybe possible that he was searching for me. Ok he was probably not looking for me but I know we were good friends.

Great cat story, Anna. 

I'm sure my cat loves me.  She shows it in all kinds of ways. She consistently wakes me  up gently most mornings at the right time by kneading the blankets.  When I'm brushing my teeth she jumps up on the counter for a little head butting time.  Any time I'm home she's almost always close by.  When critters come around the house we both go to the window and make funny noises to let them know it's our place- (that really gets her purr motor going). 

The thing is PJF, if you're at one with the cat, the cat is at one with you. 

Nami

rgambs said:

Nami said:

ok how about a soul in general?   One that deciphers good from bad, whats wrong or right?

I asked my parents, no hits to the head when younger.... nothing from drugs/alcohol.... had the belief before and after.  ha

No, absolutely not.
Determining what is right and wrong is a cognitive function, it arises from the ability to analyze the world to a high degree.  A soul would need to be independent of the corporeal body to survive biological death, there is no evidence that such a force exists.  Human consciousness can be manipulated by physical stimuli, so where is the soul and what does it do if it has nothing to do with how you think, behave, and feel?
Does it make more sense that a cockroach doesn't know right from wrong because it has a small brain, or does it make more sense that God decided to make living creatures with souls and other living creatures without souls?

so no soul, but a consciousness sculpted by society and learned behavior.  

i believe every animal has a soul... a spirit inside that keeps all connected in this world.

Gern Blansten

Nami said:

mcgruff10 said:

I m Irish catholic. I believe in god and heaven and hell.  That is all 

im with mcgruff

question, do the people in this thread believe they have a soul?   

No...the only part of the anatomy that a "soul" could exist in would be the brain.  The brain dies soon after oxygen and blood is cut off from it.

rgambs

Nami said:

rgambs said:

Nami said:

ok how about a soul in general?   One that deciphers good from bad, whats wrong or right?

I asked my parents, no hits to the head when younger.... nothing from drugs/alcohol.... had the belief before and after.  ha

No, absolutely not.
Determining what is right and wrong is a cognitive function, it arises from the ability to analyze the world to a high degree.  A soul would need to be independent of the corporeal body to survive biological death, there is no evidence that such a force exists.  Human consciousness can be manipulated by physical stimuli, so where is the soul and what does it do if it has nothing to do with how you think, behave, and feel?
Does it make more sense that a cockroach doesn't know right from wrong because it has a small brain, or does it make more sense that God decided to make living creatures with souls and other living creatures without souls?

so no soul, but a consciousness sculpted by society and learned behavior.  

i believe every animal has a soul... a spirit inside that keeps all connected in this world.

A consciousness rooted in biology, influenced by stimuli.

Your belief is a lovely one, truly a nice thought, but I would need some sort of evidence to believe something like that.
A soul isn't necessary for keeping everything connected, everything and everyone is intrinsically interconnected in a causal universe of finite measure and forces.