no, loneliness does not create a pedophile. those types of roles, where they are constantly around children and are trusted and can prey on those they feel they can manipulate is what attracts pedos to those types of roles/professions.
no, loneliness does not create a pedophile. those types of roles, where they are constantly around children and are trusted and can prey on those they feel they can manipulate is what attracts pedos to those types of roles/professions.
I m sure that fits one segment but unfortunately pedophiles are everywhere. There is no rhyme or reason. Watch your kids closely.
no, loneliness does not create a pedophile. those types of roles, where they are constantly around children and are trusted and can prey on those they feel they can manipulate is what attracts pedos to those types of roles/professions.
I m sure that fits one segment but unfortunately pedophiles are everywhere. There is no rhyme or reason. Watch your kids closely.
i'm not in fear of that. i will educate my kids on what's appropriate and not.
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop.
I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection. Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing. It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.
I imagine there are further responses to address this, but gambs, please PLEASE know that loneliness does not create a child molester.
In the same breath, having been married, having children, having sex does not prevent the creation of a child molester.
Pedophiles cross all walks of life, of gender, of family, of profession, of so many reasons.
Trust that it is not so simple and never will be.
For more than 40 years have I given a large fuck you to mine. He never had the right to rectify upon me whatever "lack of physical affection" he experienced. No excuse, and to suggest that is, actually, insulting to the child I was while providing him with whatever he lacked. Fuck him and all the grown men (and women) who were and are like him. Get yourself some fucking help. Put yourself through hell instead of others. Put yourself to get well, to get better. To keep your hands and other body parts off of innocents.
Maybe one day I'll give enough of a shit to try to understand why he did what he did (pretty sure I'm one of many, as those actions are never limited to one - these sick fucks get off on quantity, not just perceived quality). Until that fantastical one day comes, I'll continue to curse his actions and their repercussions.
Oh, hedo - an enormous hug to you that I wish I could give you in person. Some day. I'm also glad got that out, but so sad to hear what you had to get out. You are one amazing woman!
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop.
I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection. Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing. It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.
I imagine there are further responses to address this, but gambs, please PLEASE know that loneliness does not create a child molester.
In the same breath, having been married, having children, having sex does not prevent the creation of a child molester.
Pedophiles cross all walks of life, of gender, of family, of profession, of so many reasons.
Trust that it is not so simple and never will be.
For more than 40 years have I given a large fuck you to mine. He never had the right to rectify upon me whatever "lack of physical affection" he experienced. No excuse, and to suggest that is, actually, insulting to the child I was while providing him with whatever he lacked. Fuck him and all the grown men (and women) who were and are like him. Get yourself some fucking help. Put yourself through hell instead of others. Put yourself to get well, to get better. To keep your hands and other body parts off of innocents.
Maybe one day I'll give enough of a shit to try to understand why he did what he did (pretty sure I'm one of many, as those actions are never limited to one - these sick fucks get off on quantity, not just perceived quality). Until that fantastical one day comes, I'll continue to curse his actions and their repercussions.
Oh, hedo - an enormous hug to you that I wish I could give you in person. Some day. I'm also glad got that out, but so sad to hear what you had to get out. You are one amazing woman!
Thank you, my loved friend. I shall hug you again!
Apologies for the rant and again, thanks for indulging my vitriol here. Sometimes I need to spew it out, get rid of the toxins, in order to find peace.
All of this does make me further question life, how or if god plays a part. Or just spirituality, connection to nature and to each other. Is it happenstance or intended?
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop.
I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection. Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing. It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.
I imagine there are further responses to address this, but gambs, please PLEASE know that loneliness does not create a child molester.
In the same breath, having been married, having children, having sex does not prevent the creation of a child molester.
Pedophiles cross all walks of life, of gender, of family, of profession, of so many reasons.
Trust that it is not so simple and never will be.
For more than 40 years have I given a large fuck you to mine. He never had the right to rectify upon me whatever "lack of physical affection" he experienced. No excuse, and to suggest that is, actually, insulting to the child I was while providing him with whatever he lacked. Fuck him and all the grown men (and women) who were and are like him. Get yourself some fucking help. Put yourself through hell instead of others. Put yourself to get well, to get better. To keep your hands and other body parts off of innocents.
Maybe one day I'll give enough of a shit to try to understand why he did what he did (pretty sure I'm one of many, as those actions are never limited to one - these sick fucks get off on quantity, not just perceived quality). Until that fantastical one day comes, I'll continue to curse his actions and their repercussions.
I totally agree, but would add that for someone who has that perversion, isolating themselves from acceptable forms of human contact is only going to worsen their sick desires, making them more likely to act. The position of trust and authority contributes What I am saying is not that the position creates pedophilic desires, but it would certainly unearth and bring to the forefront any sort of perversion. Many a priest has taken advantage of grown women who were having spousal issues as well. It's just a fucked up dynamic.
I'm glad that you found a release in that post, hugs hugs hugs! My mother was molested by her father, she doesn't talk about it and refuses to acknowledge that it had an effect on her life at all. I learned about it in passing when I was 24 and just last year she clarified (under questioning) that the offhand comment was real, and a very brief summary of the general nature of the molestation. I guess that's her way of saying "hey you fuckers, I still stand". Sadly, it's one of these traumatic of the traumatic events she's been through.
I'm not sure if she believes in God. She probably says she does, but I have a feeling if she met Him there would be an epic scolding and possibly a poke in the Eye.
I've enjoyed your discussion hugh? and allison, and I'm going to have to take the lady's side here. God is a fairly well defined concept that can't just be ascribed to anything.
If you think that God is the universe or nature or love, or that God is the fact that there is a vague "higher power", you are just an atheist who is afraid to admit what you are lol
can someone point me in the direction of something that says god has to be this specific set of details that the two of you have mapped out?
Well for one, it is made clear in every dictionary definition. But it is also defined as such by every single religion that ever existed, by every work of literature I've ever seen about god or against god (excluding metaphors), by every major philosophical argument for and against the existence of god that I've ever come across, by every major theologian and atheist on the "circuit", by everything that is known about the oldest ancient history of the concept of god .... Can you explain why you think god does not necessarily have to possess this basic kind of quality and still be god? Because I sincerely don't understand how you can take away that factor of the concept - what I see as literally the only defining factor of the concept - and still think it can be called god.
wow, that's pretty absolute. every single definition, every single work of literature, every major argument for or against god?
guess there's no basis for this thread then.
That is just because there is one specific thing that makes god god. That happens to be the one thing that you don't want to acknowledge. I don't know what else to say. It's kind of the equivalent of you saying that flight doesn't necessarily entail leaving the ground. There is still a ton to talk about when it comes to this topic, but maybe not so much if literally the only defining factor of god is excluded from the concept...
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I've enjoyed your discussion hugh? and allison, and I'm going to have to take the lady's side here. God is a fairly well defined concept that can't just be ascribed to anything.
If you think that God is the universe or nature or love, or that God is the fact that there is a vague "higher power", you are just an atheist who is afraid to admit what you are lol
can someone point me in the direction of something that says god has to be this specific set of details that the two of you have mapped out?
Well for one, it is made clear in every dictionary definition. But it is also defined as such by every single religion that ever existed, by every work of literature I've ever seen about god or against god (excluding metaphors), by every major philosophical argument for and against the existence of god that I've ever come across, by every major theologian and atheist on the "circuit", by everything that is known about the oldest ancient history of the concept of god .... Can you explain why you think god does not necessarily have to possess this basic kind of quality and still be god? Because I sincerely don't understand how you can take away that factor of the concept - what I see as literally the only defining factor of the concept - and still think it can be called god.
wow, that's pretty absolute. every single definition, every single work of literature, every major argument for or against god?
guess there's no basis for this thread then.
That is just because there is one specific thing that makes god god. That happens to be the one thing that you don't want to acknowledge. I don't know what else to say. It's kind of the equivalent of you saying that flight doesn't necessarily entail leaving the ground. There is still a ton to talk about when it comes to this topic, but maybe not so much if literally the only defining factor of god is excluded from the concept...
flight is a tangible thing. not comparable. if god was something that we knew what it was, I'd agree with you. but I can't for the life of me understand why the concept of god has to be limited to human imagination.
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I think I have been extremely clear about what the one defining factor of god must be - i.e. it can't be an unconscious force. What I meant by "purpose" is simply some kind of reason to exist in and of itself, not that god must have a specific purpose to apply to earth or the universe.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I think I have been extremely clear about what the one defining factor of god must be - i.e. it can't be an unconscious force. What I meant by "purpose" is simply some kind of reason to exist in and of itself, not that god must have a specific purpose to apply to earth or the universe.
why can't it be? simply because that is the prevailing human definition? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand how anyone could think humans would know what a god should or should not be)
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I think I have been extremely clear about what the one defining factor of god must be - i.e. it can't be an unconscious force. What I meant by "purpose" is simply some kind of reason to exist in and of itself, not that god must have a specific purpose to apply to earth or the universe.
why can't it be? simply because that is the prevailing human definition? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand how anyone could think humans would know what a god should or should not be)
Well since humans invented the concept, it only makes sense, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I think I have been extremely clear about what the one defining factor of god must be - i.e. it can't be an unconscious force. What I meant by "purpose" is simply some kind of reason to exist in and of itself, not that god must have a specific purpose to apply to earth or the universe.
why can't it be? simply because that is the prevailing human definition? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand how anyone could think humans would know what a god should or should not be)
Well since humans invented the concept, it only makes sense, lol.
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I think I have been extremely clear about what the one defining factor of god must be - i.e. it can't be an unconscious force. What I meant by "purpose" is simply some kind of reason to exist in and of itself, not that god must have a specific purpose to apply to earth or the universe.
why can't it be? simply because that is the prevailing human definition? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand how anyone could think humans would know what a god should or should not be)
Well since humans invented the concept, it only makes sense, lol.
Oy.
Lighten up HFD.
But seriously though, you still haven't answered my question. If god has no consciousness and/or no purpose and/or no reason for being ... then wtf do you think god could be otherwise? Wouldn't that just make god nothing? Without the kind of quality, then god is just nothing. I just don't understand how anyone could think that god could be nothing and still consider it god.
And btw, I said it tongue in cheek, but I still meant it: obviously I believe, without a shadow of a doubt, that god is a human construct, so I'm not totally sure why you expect me to be open to your idea that god exists without any kind of human definition applied to it. To me, it's all just an absurdity. Furthermore, you are no less human that anyone else - whatever definition you try to apply to god is just as human as any other definition. The concept of god is indeed a human concept. You really can't take that away. Whatever you're thinking of kind of has to be something else. Not god. People already defined what god is.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I think I have been extremely clear about what the one defining factor of god must be - i.e. it can't be an unconscious force. What I meant by "purpose" is simply some kind of reason to exist in and of itself, not that god must have a specific purpose to apply to earth or the universe.
why can't it be? simply because that is the prevailing human definition? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand how anyone could think humans would know what a god should or should not be)
Well since humans invented the concept, it only makes sense, lol.
Oy.
Lighten up HFD.
But seriously though, you still haven't answered my question. If god has no consciousness and/or no purpose and/or no reason for being ... then wtf do you think god could be otherwise? Wouldn't that just make god nothing? Without the kind of quality, then god is just nothing. I just don't understand how anyone could think that god could be nothing and still consider it god.
I didn't see a question, just a statement. But I honestly don't know. I'm not claiming to have the answers. quite the opposite, in fact.
I totally agree, but would add that for someone who has that perversion, isolating themselves from acceptable forms of human contact is only going to worsen their sick desires, making them more likely to act. The position of trust and authority contributes What I am saying is not that the position creates pedophilic desires, but it would certainly unearth and bring to the forefront any sort of perversion. Many a priest has taken advantage of grown women who were having spousal issues as well. It's just a fucked up dynamic.
I'm glad that you found a release in that post, hugs hugs hugs! My mother was molested by her father, she doesn't talk about it and refuses to acknowledge that it had an effect on her life at all. I learned about it in passing when I was 24 and just last year she clarified (under questioning) that the offhand comment was real, and a very brief summary of the general nature of the molestation. I guess that's her way of saying "hey you fuckers, I still stand". Sadly, it's one of these traumatic of the traumatic events she's been through.
I'm not sure if she believes in God. She probably says she does, but I have a feeling if she met Him there would be an epic scolding and possibly a poke in the Eye.
gambs, I hope the quoting thing works (seriously fucked up lately). Just wanted say thank you for getting it and offering another perspective for me. And for sharing what your mother endured. Must be difficult for you, as her son. May she continue to stand!
I'm still, and likely will always, trying to get my head around how my dad continued to believe and love (his?) god, in light of all whom he lost, in light of the lives he himself took to ensure freedom of religion and of BEING for himself and others. To be in full battle at 20, 21...in a dirty ditch, weapon in hand, scared and hungry as fuck. No wonder "there are no atheists in foxholes" was a common sentiment in that time.
I may not fully get it, but I do respect how faith, belief, whatever one chooses to call it, blessed me with the best father and role-model - and living example of generosity, integrity - I could hope for.
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I think I have been extremely clear about what the one defining factor of god must be - i.e. it can't be an unconscious force. What I meant by "purpose" is simply some kind of reason to exist in and of itself, not that god must have a specific purpose to apply to earth or the universe.
why can't it be? simply because that is the prevailing human definition? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand how anyone could think humans would know what a god should or should not be)
Well since humans invented the concept, it only makes sense, lol.
Oy.
Lighten up HFD.
But seriously though, you still haven't answered my question. If god has no consciousness and/or no purpose and/or no reason for being ... then wtf do you think god could be otherwise? Wouldn't that just make god nothing? Without the kind of quality, then god is just nothing. I just don't understand how anyone could think that god could be nothing and still consider it god.
I didn't see a question, just a statement. But I honestly don't know. I'm not claiming to have the answers. quite the opposite, in fact.
is gravity nothing?
Gravity is the word humans gave to an observable effect on matter.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
why does there have to be a purpose? how did we come to the conclusion that if there is a god, that it created everything for a reason? why?
so if there is no god, as you have stated, then what is the purpose? wouldn't that mean then, to you, the lack of god means the lack of purpose then?
they way i see it, even if there is a god, i don't see a purpose. maybe that's where i'm coming from. i can't say for sure there isn't a god, but i find it even more difficult to imagine that there is a purpose to all of this. billions upon billions of people born and die, do nothing but destroy their home planet. i guess it's rooted in pessimism or cynicism.
There doesn't have to be purpose. I said the word purpose once, among a list of various terms that may or may not be attributed to God (really more in an attempt to put into words what is a bit ineffable), and you focused in on this one word for some reason. But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
I was responding to this, not "focusing" on one word: Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose. what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
I think I have been extremely clear about what the one defining factor of god must be - i.e. it can't be an unconscious force. What I meant by "purpose" is simply some kind of reason to exist in and of itself, not that god must have a specific purpose to apply to earth or the universe.
why can't it be? simply because that is the prevailing human definition? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand how anyone could think humans would know what a god should or should not be)
Well since humans invented the concept, it only makes sense, lol.
Oy.
Lighten up HFD.
But seriously though, you still haven't answered my question. If god has no consciousness and/or no purpose and/or no reason for being ... then wtf do you think god could be otherwise? Wouldn't that just make god nothing? Without the kind of quality, then god is just nothing. I just don't understand how anyone could think that god could be nothing and still consider it god.
I didn't see a question, just a statement. But I honestly don't know. I'm not claiming to have the answers. quite the opposite, in fact.
is gravity nothing?
Gravity is the word humans gave to an observable effect on matter.
ok how about a soul in general? One that deciphers good from bad, whats wrong or right?
I asked my parents, no hits to the head when younger.... nothing from drugs/alcohol.... had the belief before and after. ha
No, absolutely not. Determining what is right and wrong is a cognitive function, it arises from the ability to analyze the world to a high degree. A soul would need to be independent of the corporeal body to survive biological death, there is no evidence that such a force exists. Human consciousness can be manipulated by physical stimuli, so where is the soul and what does it do if it has nothing to do with how you think, behave, and feel? Does it make more sense that a cockroach doesn't know right from wrong because it has a small brain, or does it make more sense that God decided to make living creatures with souls and other living creatures without souls?
so no soul, but a consciousness sculpted by society and learned behavior.
i believe every animal has a soul... a spirit inside that keeps all connected in this world.
Does yeast have a soul? Do viruses and bacteria? They are living creatures that have a profound effect on their local piece of the universe. If life is the condition for a soul, where does that begin and end? Is the soul of a snail equal to the soul of Mother Theresa? What about the forces themselves, they move and shape the world, should they not have souls as well?
Having a dog and cat, yes there is learned behavior and routines...but on the other hand, there are moments when i look into their eyes and moments experienced that tell me otherwise. going to a level of yeast/bacteria i dont see it as the same. yes i undertand your view, but such organisms do not go outside the propose of their being.
Hedo, sorry to read what happened.
Hamilton 9-13-05; Toronto 5-9-06, Toronto 8-21-09, Toronto 9-12-11, Hamilton 9-15-11....
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
I've found most answers to questions regarding God in this sacred music:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I've found most answers to questions regarding God in this sacred music:
IMO, the most underrated album of all time, and the single greatest concept album ever. I love the artwork and inserts too, the thing with the reversal of God made man in his image is badass and enraptured my 14 year old mind when I put this on my turntable and pulled out the worn contents.
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www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
Apologies for the rant and again, thanks for indulging my vitriol here. Sometimes I need to spew it out, get rid of the toxins, in order to find peace.
All of this does make me further question life, how or if god plays a part. Or just spirituality, connection to nature and to each other. Is it happenstance or intended?
No answers here, that's for sure.
What I am saying is not that the position creates pedophilic desires, but it would certainly unearth and bring to the forefront any sort of perversion. Many a priest has taken advantage of grown women who were having spousal issues as well. It's just a fucked up dynamic.
I'm glad that you found a release in that post, hugs hugs hugs!
My mother was molested by her father, she doesn't talk about it and refuses to acknowledge that it had an effect on her life at all. I learned about it in passing when I was 24 and just last year she clarified (under questioning) that the offhand comment was real, and a very brief summary of the general nature of the molestation. I guess that's her way of saying "hey you fuckers, I still stand". Sadly, it's one of these traumatic of the traumatic events she's been through.
I'm not sure if she believes in God. She probably says she does, but I have a feeling if she met Him there would be an epic scolding and possibly a poke in the Eye.
But I think there is one purpose to nature in general: life. At least, that's what scientific study seems to reflect.
But then now you just said there doesn't have to be a purpose.
what other attributes are a requirement of something being classified as "god"?
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
But seriously though, you still haven't answered my question. If god has no consciousness and/or no purpose and/or no reason for being ... then wtf do you think god could be otherwise? Wouldn't that just make god nothing? Without the kind of quality, then god is just nothing. I just don't understand how anyone could think that god could be nothing and still consider it god.
And btw, I said it tongue in cheek, but I still meant it: obviously I believe, without a shadow of a doubt, that god is a human construct, so I'm not totally sure why you expect me to be open to your idea that god exists without any kind of human definition applied to it. To me, it's all just an absurdity. Furthermore, you are no less human that anyone else - whatever definition you try to apply to god is just as human as any other definition. The concept of god is indeed a human concept. You really can't take that away. Whatever you're thinking of kind of has to be something else. Not god. People already defined what god is.
is gravity nothing?
www.headstonesband.com
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
I'm still, and likely will always, trying to get my head around how my dad continued to believe and love (his?) god, in light of all whom he lost, in light of the lives he himself took to ensure freedom of religion and of BEING for himself and others. To be in full battle at 20, 21...in a dirty ditch, weapon in hand, scared and hungry as fuck. No wonder "there are no atheists in foxholes" was a common sentiment in that time.
I may not fully get it, but I do respect how faith, belief, whatever one chooses to call it, blessed me with the best father and role-model - and living example of generosity, integrity - I could hope for.
ugh
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
Hedo, sorry to read what happened.
I love the artwork and inserts too, the thing with the reversal of God made man in his image is badass and enraptured my 14 year old mind when I put this on my turntable and pulled out the worn contents.
Maybe I'll head to AET