The right to bear arms
Comments
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I do not dispute numbers. They are probably correct. I don't try and decipher context in these articles because data can be interpreted any way you want them to read. I dispute the notion that more guns equals less crime. That one sentence is the premise of the entire article.mcgruff10 said:
so you aren't disputing the numbers but the authors opinion? way to bring up only one sentence from the article and not the numbers that prove that even though there's more guns in america, crime went down for that time period.Last-12-Exit said:
I dispute it because the numbers are not relative. If crime has been down since 2007, should we correlate that to smart phones? Or maybe it's the popularity of Breaking Bad? Perhaps it's the dominance the NFC had over the AFC in the 90s?mcgruff10 said:
Why do you dispute every single piece of evidence that is presented to you? You have the ex wife syndrome again.Last-12-Exit said:
Wow. More guns equals less crime. What a concept. I wonder why the government doesn't pass out free guns to everybody if more guns actually means less crime.mcgruff10 said:I posted the same article in another thread:
hmmmmmmm.......
SHOCK: AS AMERICANS BOUGHT 170 MILLION GUNS, VIOLENT CRIME FELL 51%
by AWR HAWKINS31 Aug 2015
On August 28, the NRA presented ATF and FBI data showing Americans have purchased “170 million new guns” since 1991, and violent crime has fallen “51 percent.”
The NRA tweeted, “Since ’91, Americans have acquired over 170 million new firearms and violent crimes have declined by 51%.”
This information squares with the findings of a Congressional Research Service (CRS) study covering the slightly shorter period of time from 1994 to 2009. For those years, CRS found that Americans purchased approximately 118 million firearms, and the 1993 “firearm-related murder and non-negligent homicide” rate of 6.6 per 100,000 fell to 3.6 per 100,000 by the year 2000. It eventually fell all the way to 3.2 per 100,000 in 2011.
That is more than a 50 percent reduction in “firearm-related murder and non-negligent homicide.”
Then, in 2009—the year the CRS study ended—Obama took office and gun sales began their climb to record levels, which made covering the gap between the 118 million guns that had been purchased by 2009 and the “170 million new guns” that Americans would own by 2015 an easy gap to bridge.
Breitbart News previously reported that there were 21,093,273 background checks for firearms in 2013 alone. And each of those checks were on buyers who could have legally purchased multiple firearms.
The overarching message is simple—more guns, less crime. Americans have purchased “170 million new guns” since 1991, and violent crime has decreased as gun ownership has increased.
Follow AWR Hawkins on Twitter: @AWRHawkins. Reach him directly at awrhawkins@breitbart.com.
By the way, I'm not disputed every single piece of evidence. I'm disputing the authors premise of more guns equals less crime.0 -
but you are always saying we have too many guns. no one should have military "type" weapons. too many guns. too many guns. no high capacity clips. too many guns. more guns equal more crime. too many guns. ak 47's, ar15's, banned. banned.
main topic of the article: Since ’91, Americans have acquired over 170 million new firearms and violent crimes have declined by 51%.”
you draw your own conclusion from that but like i've said a thousand times, the very very very very few psychopath irresponsible assholes have ruined it for the one hundred million americans that own firearms legally and treat them with respect and are responsible with them.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
And I am of the opinion that this country has never had any form of true gun control. Take away the military grade weapons from civilians. Take away guns that fire X amount t of round d per minute. Include comprehensive background checks that actually look for mental instability or patterns for red flags. A heavy tax on ammo. Registration of all firearms.
I'm not saying take guns you currently own away. Just of you currently do not own that particular gun, then you can't get them after this legislation has passed. And that every time you want to buy a gun, you have to go through the process again
If we actually tried that for a decade and the numbers don't drastically change, then we tried, and it failed. Why are some so afraid of this?0 -
I'm from Indiana and can tell you that Indiana is one of the most pro gun states in the country. I'm interested what experiences you had with guns while you were here. Good and bad.chime said:Coming from a country where the majority of our police force don't carry guns you can imagine which side of the debate I'm on.
I did spend a year living in the US (Indiana) and the attitude to guns was so alien to me. I had never seen a gun and have no desire to ever hold one.
Anyway I caught this documentary this weekend http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/requiem-for-the-dead-american-spring-2014/synopsis.html
"More than 32,000 people die from gun violence every year in America, an average of 88 people per day. REQUIEM FOR THE DEAD: AMERICAN SPRING 2014 highlights a few of the estimated 8,000 individuals who died from gunfire that spring, drawing exclusively on found media – news accounts, police investigations and social media – to shine a light on little-known stories of tragic loss, bringing the victims to life in their own words and images.
From a Facebook status update to a post on Instagram, from a newspaper headline to on-the-scene video, REQUIEM FOR THE DEAD details victims’ lives in the moments leading up to the shootings and shows how each death reverberates in the lives of others."
These were spouses who were asked for a divorce and then committed murder/suicide (one killing his wife and himself, one killing his wife, kids and himself), siblings killing siblings (12 killing a 16 year old and I think 15/16 killing an 18 year old ... on purpose), as well as a 12 year old accidentally killing a friend, one a gentleman who accidentally discharged him weapon and it traveled across his home and hit his wife who was sitting in another room etc. These weren't illegal firearms. These weren't (until the incident in question) criminals. Most would likely have passed mental health checks. Mental health isn't a constant ...0 -
I know you weren't asking me, but I lived in new indiana for 20 years. Guns were everywhere. My brother has a reloading tool to reload shotgun shells. Everyone around me hunted, owned guns, and bought more guns. We lived in a small town and had 3 gun ranges. Plus we lived in what could be described as a 3 county corn/wheat/bean fields. There was always a place to shoot guns. Personally, I had zero interactions with the weapons. I never felt the needs to go shoot I g when my friends went. I do know 4 people that were shot. 3 were killed and one wounded.Stickman12 said:
I'm from Indiana and can tell you that Indiana is one of the most pro gun states in the country. I'm interested what experiences you had with guns while you were here. Good and bad.chime said:Coming from a country where the majority of our police force don't carry guns you can imagine which side of the debate I'm on.
I did spend a year living in the US (Indiana) and the attitude to guns was so alien to me. I had never seen a gun and have no desire to ever hold one.
Anyway I caught this documentary this weekend http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/requiem-for-the-dead-american-spring-2014/synopsis.html
"More than 32,000 people die from gun violence every year in America, an average of 88 people per day. REQUIEM FOR THE DEAD: AMERICAN SPRING 2014 highlights a few of the estimated 8,000 individuals who died from gunfire that spring, drawing exclusively on found media – news accounts, police investigations and social media – to shine a light on little-known stories of tragic loss, bringing the victims to life in their own words and images.
From a Facebook status update to a post on Instagram, from a newspaper headline to on-the-scene video, REQUIEM FOR THE DEAD details victims’ lives in the moments leading up to the shootings and shows how each death reverberates in the lives of others."
These were spouses who were asked for a divorce and then committed murder/suicide (one killing his wife and himself, one killing his wife, kids and himself), siblings killing siblings (12 killing a 16 year old and I think 15/16 killing an 18 year old ... on purpose), as well as a 12 year old accidentally killing a friend, one a gentleman who accidentally discharged him weapon and it traveled across his home and hit his wife who was sitting in another room etc. These weren't illegal firearms. These weren't (until the incident in question) criminals. Most would likely have passed mental health checks. Mental health isn't a constant ...0 -
You know, these "military-grade weapons" are only used in about .5% of shooting incidents. They are definitely something worth banning. (Rolls eyes.)Last-12-Exit said:And I am of the opinion that this country has never had any form of true gun control. Take away the military grade weapons from civilians. Take away guns that fire X amount t of round d per minute. Include comprehensive background checks that actually look for mental instability or patterns for red flags. A heavy tax on ammo. Registration of all firearms.
I'm not saying take guns you currently own away. Just of you currently do not own that particular gun, then you can't get them after this legislation has passed. And that every time you want to buy a gun, you have to go through the process again
If we actually tried that for a decade and the numbers don't drastically change, then we tried, and it failed. Why are some so afraid of this?
The "heavy tax on ammo" will only really have an effect on poor people. Yeah, that seems fair. Poor people's lives are worth less than everyone else's.
Registration of all firearms was a really popular idea in Germany in the 1930's, too.
I agree that we could definitely improve the current NICS protocol though.If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV0 -
It's idiotic to keep comparing Nazi Germany to the United states. And many handguns could fall into the military grade weapons. Why so fear full of trying that kind of policy? Give it 6 or 7 years so real data can be analyzed and go from there.0
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because you are banning guns! it's beyond obvious that you have no clue what you are talking about when we are discussing firearms. my 12 gauge shotgun...used by the military. my ww2 rifles...used by the military. my ar15...used by the military. my 9mm...they use that caliber in the military.Last-12-Exit said:It's idiotic to keep comparing Nazi Germany to the United states. And many handguns could fall into the military grade weapons. Why so fear full of trying that kind of policy? Give it 6 or 7 years so real data can be analyzed and go from there.
all guns can technically be used by the military. my .308 bolt action rifle...used by the military. where does it stop?
what is a high capacity clip according to you? more than five rounds? ten? 20?
I get that you have a complete disdain for guns but in order to have any sort of discussion you have to be open minded. However you are not accepting of any statistical evidence, constitutional rights or supreme court decisions supporting gun rights.
a heavy tax on ammo? why? so i have to pay for more to go to the range and shoot because some asshole broke the law? that's like saying one of my students was on an inappropriate site on the computer so my my entire district is going to ban computer use in the classroom.
like i said, ex wife syndrome.Post edited by mcgruff10 onI'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
I think the question was why are you pro gun people so afraid of trying something new. What's happening now isn't working.looking to hear of the earth0
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Remember the Clinton-era "assault weapons ban"? It outlawed high capacity magazines and so-called "assault weapons". There is a reason it was allowed to expire. That 10 year gun control policy didn't accomplish anything.Last-12-Exit said:It's idiotic to keep comparing Nazi Germany to the United states. And many handguns could fall into the military grade weapons. Why so fear full of trying that kind of policy? Give it 6 or 7 years so real data can be analyzed and go from there.
I want to know also: Why are you so willing to forfeit any right granted to you by our government?If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV0 -
I think violence in the West as a whole has gone down over this period. So I don't think the correlation is necessarily truemcgruff10 said:I posted the same article in another thread:
hmmmmmmm.......
SHOCK: AS AMERICANS BOUGHT 170 MILLION GUNS, VIOLENT CRIME FELL 51%
by AWR HAWKINS31 Aug 2015
On August 28, the NRA presented ATF and FBI data showing Americans have purchased “170 million new guns” since 1991, and violent crime has fallen “51 percent.”
The NRA tweeted, “Since ’91, Americans have acquired over 170 million new firearms and violent crimes have declined by 51%.”
.
eg The Crime Survey for England and Wales continues to show steady declines in violent crime over the last 20 years. Between the 1995 and the 2013/14 surveys, the number of violent crime incidents has fallen from 3.8 million in 1995 to 1.3 million in 2013/14 ... so pretty much a 2/3 drop.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime-and-sexual-offences--2013-14/index.htmlPost edited by chime onSo are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?0 -
So as I see it you pro gunners see no reason to put any more restrictions On the sales of any weapons , damn talk about living in the past when will you say enough is enough after how many more dead ...I say fuck you and your guns .....because as I see it that's exactly what you pro gunners are saying to us fuck you & more regulations ....jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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I'm not being open minded? What else can be done? This country has tried almost everything under the sun except true gun control. Nobody is taking away your guns. I just want them registered. So that we can actually see how many "responsible" gun owners we actually have in this country. You're blinded by your "rights." It's always the idiocy of a few that makes it difficult the rest.mcgruff10 said:
because you are banning guns! it's beyond obvious that you have no clue what you are talking about when we are discussing firearms. my 12 gauge shotgun...used by the military. my ww2 rifles...used by the military. my ar15...used by the military. my 9mm...they use that caliber in the military.Last-12-Exit said:It's idiotic to keep comparing Nazi Germany to the United states. And many handguns could fall into the military grade weapons. Why so fear full of trying that kind of policy? Give it 6 or 7 years so real data can be analyzed and go from there.
all guns can technically be used by the military. my .308 bolt action rifle...used by the military. where does it stop?
what is a high capacity clip according to you? more than five rounds? ten? 20?
I get that you have a complete disdain for guns but in order to have any sort of discussion you have to be open minded. However you are not accepting of any statistical evidence, constitutional rights or supreme court decisions supporting gun rights.
a heavy tax on ammo? why? so i have to pay for more to go to the range and shoot because some asshole broke the law? that's like saying one of my students was on an inappropriate site on the computer so my my entire district is going to ban computer use in the classroom.
like i said, ex wife syndrome.0 -
I'm pretty sure that mcgruff and I are both in support of gun reform. However, bans, registration and taxes on ammunition are not the miracle solution you expect them to be.josevolution said:So as I see it you pro gunners see no reason to put any more restrictions On the sales of any weapons , damn talk about living in the past when will you say enough is enough after how many more dead ...I say fuck you and your guns .....because as I see it that's exactly what you pro gunners are saying to us fuck you & more regulations ....
The second part of your post is very eloquent, too. Classy.If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV0 -
Apologies if you've already addressed but you good with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles on record?dudeman said:
I'm pretty sure that mcgruff and I are both in support of gun reform. However, bans, registration and taxes on ammunition are not the miracle solution you expect them to be.josevolution said:So as I see it you pro gunners see no reason to put any more restrictions On the sales of any weapons , damn talk about living in the past when will you say enough is enough after how many more dead ...I say fuck you and your guns .....because as I see it that's exactly what you pro gunners are saying to us fuck you & more regulations ....
The second part of your post is very eloquent, too. Classy.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
i'm fine with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles (meaning they take one shot with your weapon and send the ballistics to the fbi? correct?)callen said:
Apologies if you've already addressed but you good with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles on record?dudeman said:
I'm pretty sure that mcgruff and I are both in support of gun reform. However, bans, registration and taxes on ammunition are not the miracle solution you expect them to be.josevolution said:So as I see it you pro gunners see no reason to put any more restrictions On the sales of any weapons , damn talk about living in the past when will you say enough is enough after how many more dead ...I say fuck you and your guns .....because as I see it that's exactly what you pro gunners are saying to us fuck you & more regulations ....
The second part of your post is very eloquent, too. Classy.
if so we already do both of these in new jersey.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Yeah not familiar with official name of process.mcgruff10 said:
i'm fine with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles (meaning they take one shot with your weapon and send the ballistics to the fbi? correct?)callen said:
Apologies if you've already addressed but you good with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles on record?dudeman said:
I'm pretty sure that mcgruff and I are both in support of gun reform. However, bans, registration and taxes on ammunition are not the miracle solution you expect them to be.josevolution said:So as I see it you pro gunners see no reason to put any more restrictions On the sales of any weapons , damn talk about living in the past when will you say enough is enough after how many more dead ...I say fuck you and your guns .....because as I see it that's exactly what you pro gunners are saying to us fuck you & more regulations ....
The second part of your post is very eloquent, too. Classy.
if so we already do both of these in new jersey.
Well this may be the ticket then. Owners responsible and able to trace. Keep rights to protect and hunt.
Now to get this done.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
I definitely think it s needed in all 50 states. Tough to get it done with the gop controllig congress.callen said:
Yeah not familiar with official name of process.mcgruff10 said:
i'm fine with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles (meaning they take one shot with your weapon and send the ballistics to the fbi? correct?)callen said:
Apologies if you've already addressed but you good with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles on record?dudeman said:
I'm pretty sure that mcgruff and I are both in support of gun reform. However, bans, registration and taxes on ammunition are not the miracle solution you expect them to be.josevolution said:So as I see it you pro gunners see no reason to put any more restrictions On the sales of any weapons , damn talk about living in the past when will you say enough is enough after how many more dead ...I say fuck you and your guns .....because as I see it that's exactly what you pro gunners are saying to us fuck you & more regulations ....
The second part of your post is very eloquent, too. Classy.
if so we already do both of these in new jersey.
Well this may be the ticket then. Owners responsible and able to trace. Keep rights to protect and hunt.
Now to get this done.
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Fixed that for you.mcgruff10 said:
I definitely think it s needed in all 50 states. Tough to get it done with the NRA controllig congress.callen said:
Yeah not familiar with official name of process.mcgruff10 said:
i'm fine with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles (meaning they take one shot with your weapon and send the ballistics to the fbi? correct?)callen said:
Apologies if you've already addressed but you good with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles on record?dudeman said:
I'm pretty sure that mcgruff and I are both in support of gun reform. However, bans, registration and taxes on ammunition are not the miracle solution you expect them to be.josevolution said:So as I see it you pro gunners see no reason to put any more restrictions On the sales of any weapons , damn talk about living in the past when will you say enough is enough after how many more dead ...I say fuck you and your guns .....because as I see it that's exactly what you pro gunners are saying to us fuck you & more regulations ....
The second part of your post is very eloquent, too. Classy.
if so we already do both of these in new jersey.
Well this may be the ticket then. Owners responsible and able to trace. Keep rights to protect and hunt.
Now to get this done.
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the nra obviously has a huge influence in congress but if people were that fed up with gun violence or lack of gun laws these republicans would have been voted out of office a long time ago. especially after the newtown tragedy. if it didn't change after that then I feel that nothing on the federal level will ever.mickeyrat said:
Fixed that for you.mcgruff10 said:
I definitely think it s needed in all 50 states. Tough to get it done with the NRA controllig congress.callen said:
Yeah not familiar with official name of process.mcgruff10 said:
i'm fine with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles (meaning they take one shot with your weapon and send the ballistics to the fbi? correct?)callen said:
Apologies if you've already addressed but you good with gun registration and bullet scoring profiles on record?dudeman said:
I'm pretty sure that mcgruff and I are both in support of gun reform. However, bans, registration and taxes on ammunition are not the miracle solution you expect them to be.josevolution said:So as I see it you pro gunners see no reason to put any more restrictions On the sales of any weapons , damn talk about living in the past when will you say enough is enough after how many more dead ...I say fuck you and your guns .....because as I see it that's exactly what you pro gunners are saying to us fuck you & more regulations ....
The second part of your post is very eloquent, too. Classy.
if so we already do both of these in new jersey.
Well this may be the ticket then. Owners responsible and able to trace. Keep rights to protect and hunt.
Now to get this done.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0
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