The right to bear arms

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

Every gun has a history. Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nAfWfF4TjM

This is deplorable to me. These "customers" come into a store seeking a means of protecting themselves and their families, maybe because something terrible happened to someone close to them and the police arrived too late, and they are made to feel guilt and shame for that because of the acts of some crazy assholes.

The callousness that abounds in the world never ceases to amaze and disgust me.

Are you saying you find the efforts of the people who made this video to be callous? Why instead don't we look at other countries and cultures where gun violence is lower than ours and why the people there don't get this knee jerk paranoia that someone is going kill you if you don't have a gun. The only person I know who was shot a killed is a friend who was shot on the streets of Sacramento so suddenly and unexpectedly that if he had been armed he would have been killed anyway. I'm 64 years old and have lived in many places and known and met many people and yet I've never met anyone who needed to have a gun to save their life. More people with more guns just means more dead people. Americans have such a tunnel vision approach to the problem. I'm glad someone is out there is using this video to help create a new mentality regarding guns. Sorry you were so offended.

Brian, I respect your opinions and I am truly sorry to hear about your friend. I can relate. However, our opinions are partly the product of our life experience and thus are surly going to be varied in myriad ways.

You haven't known anyone that has had to use a firearm to defend themselves or their families but I have. I also have lost friends to murderers. Those friends might still be alive if they had the situational awareness, training and tools to protect themselves.

Choosing to own firearms for protection is a very personal choice, and certainly not one to be taken lightly. I don't disagree that fewer guns equal fewer gun deaths, of course that's true. There are also lots of people out there that should never own guns. Background checks need to be done and the gun show loophole and private sales not being subject to checks is a problem, too.

The comparison to other countries is a good place to start, but consider that the population of the United States is comprised of samples of the population from all of those other countries. None of those other countries have demographics that come close to ours. Think there might be something there?

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

Every gun has a history. Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nAfWfF4TjM

This is deplorable to me. These "customers" come into a store seeking a means of protecting themselves and their families, maybe because something terrible happened to someone close to them and the police arrived too late, and they are made to feel guilt and shame for that because of the acts of some crazy assholes.

The callousness that abounds in the world never ceases to amaze and disgust me.

Well they aren't mentally challenged children dude. They are grown adults who are capable of hearing another side of something and making their own decisions, sheesh. They are every bit as capable as you are of interpreting this information and doing what they think is best.

Smellyman said:

You have guns because you like guns! That's why you go to gun conventions; that's why you read gun magazines! None of you give a shit about home security. None of you go to home security conventions. None of you read Padlock Monthly. None of you have a Facebook picture of you behind a secure door..going 'fuckin yeah!'

Smellyman said:

Fricking hilarious and on point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBOk1SnQ8uU

jennycoyle said:

I found myself debating this issue with the American actor Mark Pellegrino the other day, which was quite bizarre but when talking about something like this the concept of celebrity is somewhat redundant, he was just another person with strongly held opinions with which I happened to disagree. Anyway, his defence of the right to bear arms is his staunch belief that guns in the right hands (those of responsible law-abiding citizens) are a force for good. For example, he suggested that had such a citizen been present during the cinema shootings fewer people might have died. He gave another example in which someone drove their car into a café in Texas and then started shooting people. Apparently there was a woman in the café who could have stopped him, had she not left her gun in her car. He himself claims to have chased off a robber from his apartment block using his own legally held gun.

Now I'm quite a naive idealist and my general view would be that I'd like to get rid of all guns. I do realise how unrealistic this is though and so it can be quite hard to combat Mark's view that the very fact that this would be impossible is the reason why it's so important for citizens to have the right to arm themselves.

Even if we then say ok we at least need better background checks, we all know that if someone wants a gun they'll find a way to get one. Sure all the kids have to do is take their parents guns, as I believe happened with a number of the school shootings.

So what's the answer???

dudeman said:

A lot of people here like to cast dispersions o

jennycoyle said:

I found myself debating this issue with the American actor Mark Pellegrino the other day, which was quite bizarre but when talking about something like this the concept of celebrity is somewhat redundant, he was just another person with strongly held opinions with which I happened to disagree. Anyway, his defence of the right to bear arms is his staunch belief that guns in the right hands (those of responsible law-abiding citizens) are a force for good. For example, he suggested that had such a citizen been present during the cinema shootings fewer people might have died. He gave another example in which someone drove their car into a café in Texas and then started shooting people. Apparently there was a woman in the café who could have stopped him, had she not left her gun in her car. He himself claims to have chased off a robber from his apartment block using his own legally held gun.

Now I'm quite a naive idealist and my general view would be that I'd like to get rid of all guns. I do realise how unrealistic this is though and so it can be quite hard to combat Mark's view that the very fact that this would be impossible is the reason why it's so important for citizens to have the right to arm themselves.

Even if we then say ok we at least need better background checks, we all know that if someone wants a gun they'll find a way to get one. Sure all the kids have to do is take their parents guns, as I believe happened with a number of the school shootings.

So what's the answer???

I'm aware of two cities in the US where law enforcement agencies have suggested to law abiding citizens that they obtain firearms and learn to use them. Part of it is funding, as a lot of municipalities are facing budget issues and have had to furlough or lay-off some of their officers. It is their opinion that there aren't enough LEO's to cover the security needs of their jurisdiction.

The other part is the realization that their job is to solve crimes after they happen, not to protect civilians from being victimized in the first place. Some officers would rather see the law abiding people survive these attacks.

I don't disagree that the US has a gun problem but it's worse than that. The US has an "evil" problem.

Smellyman said:

I would certainly feel more safe if more people in a bar or theater had guns on them. If they know how to use them and have training than great. Because we all know people are always level headed, never have bad days, don't get bat shit crazy when drunk, have panic attacks or nervous breakdowns, jump to conclusions, mistake phones for guns, aren't racist etc. etc.

People are always good and pleasant until they aren't. The price of freedom is collateral damage. Whatcha gonna do?

Having the ability to easily kill somebody with something in their pocket is necassary and the right of all.

dudeman said:

Smellyman said:

I would certainly feel more safe if more people in a bar or theater had guns on them. If they know how to use them and have training than great. Because we all know people are always level headed, never have bad days, don't get bat shit crazy when drunk, have panic attacks or nervous breakdowns, jump to conclusions, mistake phones for guns, aren't racist etc. etc.

People are always good and pleasant until they aren't. The price of freedom is collateral damage. Whatcha gonna do?

Having the ability to easily kill somebody with something in their pocket is necassary and the right of all.

No, it's not the right of all, it's the right of law-abiding, legal residents. There are definitely people out there that shouldn't even be allowed to look at pictures of guns.

dudeman said:

Smellyman said:

I would certainly feel more safe if more people in a bar or theater had guns on them. If they know how to use them and have training than great. Because we all know people are always level headed, never have bad days, don't get bat shit crazy when drunk, have panic attacks or nervous breakdowns, jump to conclusions, mistake phones for guns, aren't racist etc. etc.

People are always good and pleasant until they aren't. The price of freedom is collateral damage. Whatcha gonna do?

Having the ability to easily kill somebody with something in their pocket is necassary and the right of all.

No, it's not the right of all, it's the right of law-abiding, legal residents. There are definitely people out there that shouldn't even be allowed to look at pictures of guns.

callen said:

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

Every gun has a history. Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nAfWfF4TjM

This is deplorable to me. These "customers" come into a store seeking a means of protecting themselves and their families, maybe because something terrible happened to someone close to them and the police arrived too late, and they are made to feel guilt and shame for that because of the acts of some crazy assholes.

The callousness that abounds in the world never ceases to amaze and disgust me.

Are you saying you find the efforts of the people who made this video to be callous? Why instead don't we look at other countries and cultures where gun violence is lower than ours and why the people there don't get this knee jerk paranoia that someone is going kill you if you don't have a gun. The only person I know who was shot a killed is a friend who was shot on the streets of Sacramento so suddenly and unexpectedly that if he had been armed he would have been killed anyway. I'm 64 years old and have lived in many places and known and met many people and yet I've never met anyone who needed to have a gun to save their life. More people with more guns just means more dead people. Americans have such a tunnel vision approach to the problem. I'm glad someone is out there is using this video to help create a new mentality regarding guns. Sorry you were so offended.

Brian, I respect your opinions and I am truly sorry to hear about your friend. I can relate. However, our opinions are partly the product of our life experience and thus are surly going to be varied in myriad ways.

You haven't known anyone that has had to use a firearm to defend themselves or their families but I have. I also have lost friends to murderers. Those friends might still be alive if they had the situational awareness, training and tools to protect themselves.

Choosing to own firearms for protection is a very personal choice, and certainly not one to be taken lightly. I don't disagree that fewer guns equal fewer gun deaths, of course that's true. There are also lots of people out there that should never own guns. Background checks need to be done and the gun show loophole and private sales not being subject to checks is a problem, too.

The comparison to other countries is a good place to start, but consider that the population of the United States is comprised of samples of the population from all of those other countries. None of those other countries have demographics that come close to ours. Think there might be something there?

So what demographic is causing our problems?

rgambs said:

dudeman said:

Smellyman said:

I would certainly feel more safe if more people in a bar or theater had guns on them. If they know how to use them and have training than great. Because we all know people are always level headed, never have bad days, don't get bat shit crazy when drunk, have panic attacks or nervous breakdowns, jump to conclusions, mistake phones for guns, aren't racist etc. etc.

People are always good and pleasant until they aren't. The price of freedom is collateral damage. Whatcha gonna do?

Having the ability to easily kill somebody with something in their pocket is necassary and the right of all.

No, it's not the right of all, it's the right of law-abiding, legal residents. There are definitely people out there that shouldn't even be allowed to look at pictures of guns.

I'd bet the farm that anybody with access to Google could easily find more cases of law abiding legal residents who murdered with guns than law abiding citizens who save the day with guns.

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

brianlux said:

Every gun has a history. Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nAfWfF4TjM

This is deplorable to me. These "customers" come into a store seeking a means of protecting themselves and their families, maybe because something terrible happened to someone close to them and the police arrived too late, and they are made to feel guilt and shame for that because of the acts of some crazy assholes.

The callousness that abounds in the world never ceases to amaze and disgust me.

Well they aren't mentally challenged children dude. They are grown adults who are capable of hearing another side of something and making their own decisions, sheesh. They are every bit as capable as you are of interpreting this information and doing what they think is best.

I understand that but for the makers of that video to lay the burden of guilt on those unsuspecting people is beyond shitty. Of course, this is my opinion.

I think your thinking about it is beyond illogical.