The right to bear arms

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Cliffy6745 said:

Stickman12 said:

I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

That is a fucking horrific comparison. Drugs/addicts and mass murders cannot be compared by any stretch of the imagination

Why do other countries of our stature who have strict gun laws have a fraction of the gun related deaths that we do?

Yeah, the lunatic in Colorado was going to walk into the movie theater and force everyone to do drugs?

And I am not here to argue or insult, I just didn't get the comparison either.

And telling people their ammo is going to cost more money, doesn't sound to reasonable either.

Stickman12

Cliffy6745 said:

Stickman12 said:

I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

That is a fucking horrific comparison. Drugs/addicts and mass murders cannot be compared by any stretch of the imagination

Why do other countries of our stature who have strict gun laws have a fraction of the gun related deaths that we do?

The comparison was the fact that people who want to get something that they shouldnt have access too will find a way to get it. It is illegal for felons to have possession of a gun but if they want one bad enough they will find a way to get one. if a crack head wants to get high, he is going to find a way to get it. That was the comparison.

PJ_Soul

Bu there is a prohibition on drugs. There is no gun prohibition and no one is calling for one, are they? A better comparison would be... what? Methadone clinics I guess.

rgambs

Stickman12 said:

I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

Where do the "black market" guns come from?
Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
No.
They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.

josevolution

Stickman12 said:

I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

I'm pretty sure we the anti gun crowd is not implying that all weapons should be confiscated we just need more regulations so the kid with severe depression can't just go and buy an AR15 and wipe away 20 kids because he was delusional as it stands now the pro gun people are looking like they don't give a crap about how many more of these killings happen ...

PJ_Soul

rgambs said:

Stickman12 said:

I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

Where do the "black market" guns come from?
Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
No.
They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.

A huge number of them are also stolen.
I understand what you're saying, but the black market would just switch from domestic to cross-border.

rgambs

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Stickman12 said:

I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

Where do the "black market" guns come from?
Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
No.
They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.

A huge number of them are also stolen.
I understand what you're saying, but the black market would just switch from domestic to cross-border.

That switch would make them exponentially easier to deal with.

PJ_Soul

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Stickman12 said:

I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

Where do the "black market" guns come from?
Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
No.
They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.

A huge number of them are also stolen.
I understand what you're saying, but the black market would just switch from domestic to cross-border.

That switch would make them exponentially easier to deal with.

Would it? Maybe from Mexico. But there is a whole lot of undefended border between Canada and the US. And don't forget about transporting by sea. There is a lot of undefended beach in the US too. The prices would certainly increase... but I don't think that would really have much of an effect.

rgambs

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Stickman12 said:

I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

Where do the "black market" guns come from?
Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
No.
They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.

A huge number of them are also stolen.
I understand what you're saying, but the black market would just switch from domestic to cross-border.

That switch would make them exponentially easier to deal with.

Would it? Maybe from Mexico. But there is a whole lot of undefended border between Canada and the US. And don't forget about transporting by sea. There is a lot of undefended beach in the US too.

That is a whole lot of logistics right there...criminal organizations crossing borders with arms is a heck of an easier situation to deal with than what we have now

Last-12-Exit

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

PJ_Soul

Last-12-Exit said:

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

Yeah, someone on these boards said that exact thing to me last week!

mcgruff10

Last-12-Exit said:

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

don't you two be talking about me like that! lol

Last-12-Exit

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

don't you two be talking about me like that! lol

I didn't mention any names....

Smellyman

Fricking hilarious and on point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBOk1SnQ8uU

mcgruff10

Last-12-Exit said:

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

don't you two be talking about me like that! lol

I didn't mention any names....

lol touche. pjsoul hates me because I tell her all the time how bad riot act is.

Last-12-Exit

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

don't you two be talking about me like that! lol

I didn't mention any names....

lol touche. pjsoul hates me because I tell her all the time how bad riot act is.

I don't hate you. But I somewhat like riot act. LBC is great.

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

don't you two be talking about me like that! lol

I didn't mention any names....

lol touche. pjsoul hates me because I tell her all the time how bad riot act is.

It's so good!!!!!!!!!

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Last-12-Exit said:

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

Exactly
They carried muskets and were worried about slave revolts.

And if that isn't reason enough to maybe take a long look at the 2nd amendment, then I don't know what is.

rgambs

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

Exactly
They carried muskets and were worried about slave revolts.

And if that isn't reason enough to maybe take a long look at the 2nd amendment, then I don't know what is.

mickeyrat

Shawshank said:

If they do a gun buyback and people turn in their handguns (I'm assuming people would still be allowed to have hunting rifles right?)...how do you control the black market side of things? How do you keep guns out of the hands of the criminal element? I am in no way trying to argue the need to do something...not at all...I see the need. I'm just wondering how this could be done. I cannot see how criminals would be disarmed in all of this. They will find a way to get guns. They will carry guns. They will use guns.

Lets start there. Where the fuck are guns on the black market coming from? No way they are all stolen.

Legal purchase initially then resold for profit with no oversight or record of resale.