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The right to bear arms

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    I DO NOT buy into the argument that the lunatics will find another way to commit mass murder if we take away there guns. Sorry, but that thought process just doesn't work for me. America has a BIG problem with handguns, it is pretty fucking obvious.

    Lets see, the 2nd amendment was adopted in 1791? Well this is 2015, and we are not living on a Prairie fighting Indians, nor are we protecting are chickens from wild coyotes. I am pretty damned sure when that 2nd amendment was adopted, nobody involved had any idea what America was going to look like in the year 2015.

    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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    SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 24,961
    edited August 2015
    Lets take a look as to why the early settlers thought it important for one to bear arms in 1791.

    Enabling people to organize a militia
    To participate in law enforcement
    To deter a tyrannical government
    To repel invasion
    To suppress slave revolts
    Self defense

    It was 1791 people.
    What was the entire population of the USA in 1791? 3,900,000
    And in the year 2015 how many handguns are there out there?
    Post edited by SPEEDY MCCREADY on
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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    dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,548
    speedy is right..usa let this shit to go too far..
    the guns shit needs to be control...
    If someone has a tiny piece of mind in his head,he can understand this clearly
    if usa wants their people more safe,if they want the world to know usa for different things than unreal killing every day they need to change it NOW
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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    2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,203

    Lets take a look as to why the early settlers thought it important for one to bear arms in 1791.

    Enabling people to organize a militia
    To participate in law enforcement
    To deter a tyrannical government
    To repel invasion
    To suppress slave revolts
    Self defense

    It was 1791 people.
    What was the entire population of the USA in 1791? 3,900,000
    And in the year 2015 how many handguns are there out there?

    Professor McSpeedy in the house. Unfortunately a good number of politicians act and behave like it's still 1791.
    www.cluthelee.com
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    ShawshankShawshank Posts: 1,018
    If they do a gun buyback and people turn in their handguns (I'm assuming people would still be allowed to have hunting rifles right?)...how do you control the black market side of things? How do you keep guns out of the hands of the criminal element? I am in no way trying to argue the need to do something...not at all...I see the need. I'm just wondering how this could be done. I cannot see how criminals would be disarmed in all of this. They will find a way to get guns. They will carry guns. They will use guns.
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,515
    There is to much money involved in guns , rifles , ammo the NRA has all those greedy politicians in their pockets this is not going to change there will be more killings that you can bank on it , go ahead find me one of those candidates running for president that will run on gun reform not one will step up to the plate on this issue none of'em ....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,203
    Shawshank said:

    If they do a gun buyback and people turn in their handguns (I'm assuming people would still be allowed to have hunting rifles right?)...how do you control the black market side of things? How do you keep guns out of the hands of the criminal element? I am in no way trying to argue the need to do something...not at all...I see the need. I'm just wondering how this could be done. I cannot see how criminals would be disarmed in all of this. They will find a way to get guns. They will carry guns. They will use guns.

    Would be more difficult in our country - easier in other countries with smaller populations.
    www.cluthelee.com
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    Stickman12Stickman12 Posts: 504
    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.
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    ShawshankShawshank Posts: 1,018


    Would be more difficult in our country - easier in other countries with smaller populations.

    I have to agree. I mean I see people tout Australia, and yes their plan is great. But there is absolutely no way that would work here. Yes, you could keep everyday gun owners from having one, but you would never stop the crazies and the criminals. The additional problem we have, is that there is no security here. We aren't surrounded by water like Australia. Shipments of guns would easily cross into our country from Mexico and enter the black market. I mean hell...WE shipped guns down to Mexico.
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,672
    edited August 2015

    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    That is a fucking horrific comparison. Drugs/addicts and mass murders cannot be compared by any stretch of the imagination

    Why do other countries of our stature who have strict gun laws have a fraction of the gun related deaths that we do?
    Post edited by Cliffy6745 on
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    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    That is a fucking horrific comparison. Drugs/addicts and mass murders cannot be compared by any stretch of the imagination

    Why do other countries of our stature who have strict gun laws have a fraction of the gun related deaths that we do?
    Yeah, the lunatic in Colorado was going to walk into the movie theater and force everyone to do drugs?

    And I am not here to argue or insult, I just didn't get the comparison either.

    And telling people their ammo is going to cost more money, doesn't sound to reasonable either.
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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    Stickman12Stickman12 Posts: 504

    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    That is a fucking horrific comparison. Drugs/addicts and mass murders cannot be compared by any stretch of the imagination

    Why do other countries of our stature who have strict gun laws have a fraction of the gun related deaths that we do?
    The comparison was the fact that people who want to get something that they shouldnt have access too will find a way to get it. It is illegal for felons to have possession of a gun but if they want one bad enough they will find a way to get one. if a crack head wants to get high, he is going to find a way to get it. That was the comparison.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,776
    Bu there is a prohibition on drugs. There is no gun prohibition and no one is calling for one, are they? A better comparison would be... what? Methadone clinics I guess. :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    Where do the "black market" guns come from?
    Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
    No.
    They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,515

    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    I'm pretty sure we the anti gun crowd is not implying that all weapons should be confiscated we just need more regulations so the kid with severe depression can't just go and buy an AR15 and wipe away 20 kids because he was delusional as it stands now the pro gun people are looking like they don't give a crap about how many more of these killings happen ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,776
    edited August 2015
    rgambs said:

    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    Where do the "black market" guns come from?
    Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
    No.
    They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.
    A huge number of them are also stolen.
    I understand what you're saying, but the black market would just switch from domestic to cross-border.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    PJ_Soul said:

    rgambs said:

    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    Where do the "black market" guns come from?
    Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
    No.
    They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.
    A huge number of them are also stolen.
    I understand what you're saying, but the black market would just switch from domestic to cross-border.
    That switch would make them exponentially easier to deal with.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,776
    edited August 2015
    rgambs said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    rgambs said:

    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    Where do the "black market" guns come from?
    Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
    No.
    They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.
    A huge number of them are also stolen.
    I understand what you're saying, but the black market would just switch from domestic to cross-border.
    That switch would make them exponentially easier to deal with.
    Would it? Maybe from Mexico. But there is a whole lot of undefended border between Canada and the US. And don't forget about transporting by sea. There is a lot of undefended beach in the US too. The prices would certainly increase... but I don't think that would really have much of an effect.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    PJ_Soul said:

    rgambs said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    rgambs said:

    I am pro gun and support the second amendment. I, like everyone else, see the senseless violence that has been going on and agree that something needs to be done to get things under control. I cannot however support additional gun control laws when current laws are not being enforced. Speedy posted that he does not buy into the idea that lunatics will find another way to commit murder if we take away their guns. I personally disagree. Im not going to sit here and site example after example but one that comes to mind is drugs. Drugs are illegal and will get confiscated if found by the police. Drugs still find there way to places they shouldnt be. Whether its your friendly pot head or scumbag crack head, people who want drugs will find a way to get them. I do have my own solution to help curb gun violence. I would propose somehow making guns, ammunition, and magazines more expensive. If the price were increased significantly, there would be less gun sales, less ammo sales, and less magazine sales. If a handgun were $1000 as opposed to $400 or if an AR15 were $2000 instead of $700, I believe over time guns would be less available to those who shouldnt have them. If a box of bullets cost $50 instead of $15, people may think twice about spraying them with no clear target.

    Where do the "black market" guns come from?
    Are there black market ops where people build guns for criminals??
    No.
    They are legally purchased and then sold to criminals. Obviously if you decimate the number of legal sales, you will also be decimating the supply for criminals.
    A huge number of them are also stolen.
    I understand what you're saying, but the black market would just switch from domestic to cross-border.
    That switch would make them exponentially easier to deal with.
    Would it? Maybe from Mexico. But there is a whole lot of undefended border between Canada and the US. And don't forget about transporting by sea. There is a lot of undefended beach in the US too.
    That is a whole lot of logistics right there...criminal organizations crossing borders with arms is a heck of an easier situation to deal with than what we have now
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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    Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,776

    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

    Yeah, someone on these boards said that exact thing to me last week! :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,082

    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

    don't you two be talking about me like that! lol
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    mcgruff10 said:

    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

    don't you two be talking about me like that! lol
    I didn't mention any names.... :whistle:
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    SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Fricking hilarious and on point.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBOk1SnQ8uU
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,082

    mcgruff10 said:

    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

    don't you two be talking about me like that! lol
    I didn't mention any names.... :whistle:
    lol touche. pjsoul hates me because I tell her all the time how bad riot act is.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    mcgruff10 said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

    don't you two be talking about me like that! lol
    I didn't mention any names.... :whistle:
    lol touche. pjsoul hates me because I tell her all the time how bad riot act is.
    I don't hate you. But I somewhat like riot act. LBC is great.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,776
    mcgruff10 said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

    don't you two be talking about me like that! lol
    I didn't mention any names.... :whistle:
    lol touche. pjsoul hates me because I tell her all the time how bad riot act is.
    image It's so good!!!!!!!!!
    :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 24,961
    edited August 2015

    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

    Exactly
    They carried muskets and were worried about slave revolts.

    And if that isn't reason enough to maybe take a long look at the 2nd amendment, then I don't know what is.
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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    rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    Don't tell people that when the constitution was written the most powerful weapon known to man was a musket that took 4 minutes to reload if you were a marksman. They will tell you that we should ban the internet because newspaper and books were the only methods of spreading information.

    Exactly
    They carried muskets and were worried about slave revolts.

    And if that isn't reason enough to maybe take a long look at the 2nd amendment, then I don't know what is.
    :clap:
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,568
    Shawshank said:

    If they do a gun buyback and people turn in their handguns (I'm assuming people would still be allowed to have hunting rifles right?)...how do you control the black market side of things? How do you keep guns out of the hands of the criminal element? I am in no way trying to argue the need to do something...not at all...I see the need. I'm just wondering how this could be done. I cannot see how criminals would be disarmed in all of this. They will find a way to get guns. They will carry guns. They will use guns.

    Lets start there. Where the fuck are guns on the black market coming from? No way they are all stolen.

    Legal purchase initially then resold for profit with no oversight or record of resale.
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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