9 Dead in Shooting at Black Church in SC

Last-12-Exit said:

Nikki Haley or any republican in this state will EVER try and get that flag moved. Haley claims it's a non issue. Facebook is riddled with the same old idiotic argument, it's heritage not hate. That flag will be there forever.

Your comment reminds me something I never understood about South Carolina politics. The GOP is entrenched for sure, but there are SOOOOOOO MANY African-Americans in that state who vote for them or they don't vote at all. As you know but others may not, the Charleston House seat is represented by a black Republican, voted for in a special election. I just don't see with the demographics of the state how Democrats can't even get a foothold. I know Charleston has had a (white, Irish) Democratic mayor forever and a day, and there's Clyburn from Columbia, but given what I've read in some local chat groups I belong to, those two standouts are no longer guaranteed wins.

I really don't want to turn this into a liberal vs. conservative thread or argue that the parties are divided by race, but dang, every election season, I feel like I need to get on a bus and register some black voters out in Awendaw or something. But I don't even know it would do any good!

Getting back to the flag, the only reason why I could see it someday coming down is that A LOT of "outsiders" are moving into the state from elsewhere. The people moving in, mostly from the north, might have some influence. And if there is a tourism boycott, forget it, that flag is coming down. South Carolina will die without tourism.

Thirty Bills, That's the point. The perpetrator will rot in Hell. People who have faith trust that with God. You do not have to understand that, but I have come to see things differently after going through something horrific with a lot of spiritual guidance. Like I said in another post, to the faithful, forgiveness does not = excusing the crime. It's not saying "It's okay dude. No problem that you just killed my grandma."

It's way more complicated than that. Some might call it delusional. I just know that even as I think this guy is the lowest scum on earth, I acknowledge that he is a human being, just like me capable of great "sin." From a word study point of view, forgiveness is about giving. Forgiving people are the most generous people on the planet, and we need more of them.

If Dylann Roof were a forgiving person, we would not sit here today having this conversation.

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Isn't it an insult to all those who have served the state and this nation that the flag of a failed racist rebellion is treated with equal respect as the one carried by those who fought for our country?

It's interesting that everything that is wrong with that flag beams brightly now- the distasteful ideology behind it exposed.

I have always hated that stupid flag, and the IGNORANT hillbilly wannabes who display it proudly in Ohio, despite their total lack of connection to the "heritage" excuse. It is a proud rebuttal of doctrines of tolerance at the least, and an outright proclamation of overt racism in most cases.

I see it here as well in California in places as well. There are a couple of guys here in town who drive around with these big Confederate flags attached to there vehicles. Racism knows no boundaries. California has a reputation for being liberal (and in many places is so) but we have our enclaves of racist and hate groups of all sorts. This is a problem that needs to be dealt- definitely in the south- but pretty much everywhere as well.

Last-12-Exit said:

what dreams said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Nikki Haley or any republican in this state will EVER try and get that flag moved. Haley claims it's a non issue. Facebook is riddled with the same old idiotic argument, it's heritage not hate. That flag will be there forever.

Your comment reminds me something I never understood about South Carolina politics. The GOP is entrenched for sure, but there are SOOOOOOO MANY African-Americans in that state who vote for them or they don't vote at all. As you know but others may not, the Charleston House seat is represented by a black Republican, voted for in a special election. I just don't see with the demographics of the state how Democrats can't even get a foothold. I know Charleston has had a (white, Irish) Democratic mayor forever and a day, and there's Clyburn from Columbia, but given what I've read in some local chat groups I belong to, those two standouts are no longer guaranteed wins.

I really don't want to turn this into a liberal vs. conservative thread or argue that the parties are divided by race, but dang, every election season, I feel like I need to get on a bus and register some black voters out in Awendaw or something. But I don't even know it would do any good!

Getting back to the flag, the only reason why I could see it someday coming down is that A LOT of "outsiders" are moving into the state from elsewhere. The people moving in, mostly from the north, might have some influence. And if there is a tourism boycott, forget it, that flag is coming down. South Carolina will die without tourism.

I have lived here since 1999 and still can't begin to understand the politics here. This is a Republican state. The people here are right wingers. Blacks and whites both are anti gay and anti abortion. I have been a registered voter in the same district since I've lived here and I definitely have noticed that way more white people vote than black. Except the last 2 presidential elections. Those are the only 2 times I've ever had to wait to vote.

Every election cycle I feel the same frustration. How do we continue to vote for people like Lindsay Graham and Nikki Haley, even Tim Scott? I know the answer. Many of those black people that were voting for Obama in those 2 presidential election didnt vote in any other elections. They didn't vote for their local representative, or their state senator. I really believe many black people voted just to see a black president and they probably will never vote again. Obviously, I've done no polls or have any statistics to back that up. That is strictly my opinion based on what I have seen.

I have friends involved in local politics, and I think I need to start asking then some questions. But I do agree with you . . . I have to believe it's because blacks either don't vote and the ones who do are socially conservative.

I don't even trust Joe Riley. Or any of the local councils -- they are busy selling Charleston to the highest bidder. The destruction of the environment by developers is criminal, turning what is arguably the most naturally beautiful place in America into a parking lot. Different thread. Maybe when I'm down (next week probably, or 4th week) we can hang and discuss that. It would be fun to meet a PJ fan in Charleston!

Last-12-Exit said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

http://news.yahoo.com/victims-of-charleston-church-shooting-184054049.html

That was moving. One thing I have noticed, all across this country, is people everywhere have felt this. You can see the hurt and the fear in Jon Stewarts face. He is 100% correct. He fucking gets it.

You don't have to be a religious person to understand that if you can't feel safe in church, where the fuck else can you feel safe in this place?

security cameras aren't an indication of being in a safe place. Suggests quite the opposite in fact.

markymark550 said:

In regards to the tourism boycott, the NAACP has been actively engaged in boycotting SC tourism since 2000 (when they moved the flag from atop the statehouse). Tourism industry doesn't seem to be affected that much though. Charleston, Myrtle Beach, etc still draw lots of people every year. Honestly, the biggest impact of the boycott seems to be with NCAA sporting events. Non-merit based events can't be held in South Carolina. That prevents Columbia or Greenville from hosting men's NCAA Tournament games and has prevented the start of a football bowl game I believe.

Which goes to show how ineffective the NAACP is as a political organization. Never knew this. The bulk of tourists are white. Those are the tourists who need to stop visiting. Charleston makes every damn travel magazine list as a top destination (never understood the appeal of Myrtle). It's time for that shit to stop. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future and how this event so soon after the Walter Scott will influence the tourist industry. The days after a tragedy everyone is fired up. I hope people will still be talking about the issues six months from now.

And to make matters worse, it appears that the Westboro Baptist folks are planning on protesting the funerals of the victims. I really wish we could ban those folks from ever entering oiur state.

http://www.ibtimes.com/westboro-baptist-church-blames-charleston-shooting-hillary-clinton-threatens-picket-1973484

Last-12-Exit said:

markymark550 said:

And to make matters worse, it appears that the Westboro Baptist folks are planning on protesting the funerals of the victims. I really wish we could ban those folks from ever entering oiur state.

http://www.ibtimes.com/westboro-baptist-church-blames-charleston-shooting-hillary-clinton-threatens-picket-1973484

What's the point? They are protesting why? Because they are black??

They claim Rev. Pinckney was a "lying preacher" who supported Hillary Clinton's "sin campaign."

In their case I don't think race plays a part. They just hate anything and everything liberal.