9 Dead in Shooting at Black Church in SC

brianlux

^^^ It is crazy, G. And Fox has shown its hand as the racist organization it is by refusing to acknowledge the killing as an act of racism.

Last-12-Exit

callen said:

Apologists. Gag.

White ignorant insecure racists. That's all there is to this story. Significant portion of our population. and needs to be called out.

Fuck the confederate flag.

Fuck honoring those that fought to continue slavery.

This kid is the stereo typical racist. Weak, not too smart and blames others for their ills. Afraid the black man will get all the white girls as they are stronger and bigger. Sad typical animalistic human behavior. We aren't civilized. We're cavemen.

As to death penalty for this punk, so now we also kill. The utter hypocrisy of this We as a society are no better than this little fuck. We do nothing by killing. Well other than making ourselves feel better about situation. How selfish. There are families grieving and we talk about getting our endorphin drip by killing this fuck! All about me!!!

Want to do something? Accept reality and call out white insecure racists.

You've got a lot going on here. I agree with all of it with the exception of the death penalty. My stance is definitely softening on it. But in open and shut cases like this, I have no problem with it. I can assure you that it's not about the rush to kill. It's more about the fact that I don't think guys like this scum deserves to live. Is that my decision to make? Absolutely not. But if you gave me the choice about this particular piece of trash, I give him the chair.

Last-12-Exit

what dreams said:

callen said:

what dreams said:

Many of the streets in Charleston are also named after founding families, i.e., plantation owners, but guess what? BLACK PEOPLE share those same last names.

Share?!? Bestowed upon them as slaves. Think if I were black id sure as hell change my last name if it was Jackson.

I haven't signed off yet, Callen. Like I said and you must have missed it . . . black people know how they got their last names. Pinckney is one of them. He didn't change it. He ran on it and became a state senator.
There are no prominent Jacksons in Charleston. An outsider wouldn't know that. Give it up.

Those names were forced on the slaves back in the 1800s. People like senator Pinckney did know that. That doesn't mean he's accepted it. It means his family and many other black families have created their own legacy that has nothing to do with slavery. They have had 150 years to build their own names. Why should he change it? Why should he have to?

callen

what dreams said:

callen said:

what dreams said:

Many of the streets in Charleston are also named after founding families, i.e., plantation owners, but guess what? BLACK PEOPLE share those same last names.

Share?!? Bestowed upon them as slaves. Think if I were black id sure as hell change my last name if it was Jackson.

I haven't signed off yet, Callen. Like I said and you must have missed it . . . black people know how they got their last names. Pinckney is one of them. He didn't change it. He ran on it and became a state senator.
There are no prominent Jacksons in Charleston. An outsider wouldn't know that. Give it up.

Give what up?

Challenging "Benefit" black people get by having last names matching street names in a once slave city by the very slave owners that owned and gave them their last name? Woo hoo proud and thankful they must feel.

This is part of the disconnect we have in this country. And it's not like this was thousands of years ago, a mere few generations.

rgambs

http://gawker.com/here-is-what-appears-to-be-dylann-roofs-racist-manifest-1712767241?rev=1434812122867&utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Here we have an alleged manifesto from this creep.
Oh and he is sporting a Confederate flag. Surprised? Of course not.

Last-12-Exit

I'm really not ready to hear Hilary Clinton campaign about gun reform on behalf of the victims families in Charleston.

ldent42

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

I am glad that the world/USA has forgiven the perpetrators of 911 and expresses no anger.

I forgive you for this comment.

rgambs

ldent42 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

I am glad that the world/USA has forgiven the perpetrators of 911 and expresses no anger.

I forgive you for this comment.

Hahaha good one!

hedonist

Page 9 of this thread was, in a strange way for me, awesome, interesting and eye-opening; despite some points made with which I disagree, I felt it all - garnered some emotions.

And what dreams - self-imposed timeouts are healthy; do return though!

PJ_Soul

Last-12-Exit said:

"We welcomed you Wednesday night in our Bible study with open arms. You have killed some of the most beautiful people that I know. Every fiber in my body hurts, and I'll never be the same. But, as we said in that bible study, we enjoyed you. And now may God have mercy on you."
Felicia Sanders, mother of Tywanza Sanders and survivor of the massacre.

I know we like to act like we will feel a certain way if this kind of tragedy hits us closely. While some of you may have had this kind of horror in your life, most of us havent. I am not a religious person. I do not believe in god. But in no way will I tell these people how to cope with the trauma they have experienced. The utter horror. Honestly, I can't believe some of you would criticize forgiveness. Maybe it is the natural reaction humans should have to tragedy. How are you so sure that rage, anger, and vengeance is supposed to come first?

For the record, I specifically said that I don't think forgiveness has to be related to hate, rage, anger, or vengeance. I believe those emotions wouod be very unhelpful at this time. And i think saying thst anyone is criticizing forgiveness is farfetched. It really became a philosophical argument about the nature of forgiveness, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that! But I am not surprised (though I am disheartened) that many people are unable to wrap their minds around this and instead show anger and defensiveness over the very mention of the subject. Gimme a break. The best way to deal with events like these are to be honest and open. Not to express your reaction in the way everyone expects you to in their own versions of what an ideal world is (not speaking specifically about you here Last-12).

ldent42

PJ_Soul said:

Last-12-Exit said:

"We welcomed you Wednesday night in our Bible study with open arms. You have killed some of the most beautiful people that I know. Every fiber in my body hurts, and I'll never be the same. But, as we said in that bible study, we enjoyed you. And now may God have mercy on you."
Felicia Sanders, mother of Tywanza Sanders and survivor of the massacre.

I know we like to act like we will feel a certain way if this kind of tragedy hits us closely. While some of you may have had this kind of horror in your life, most of us havent. I am not a religious person. I do not believe in god. But in no way will I tell these people how to cope with the trauma they have experienced. The utter horror. Honestly, I can't believe some of you would criticize forgiveness. Maybe it is the natural reaction humans should have to tragedy. How are you so sure that rage, anger, and vengeance is supposed to come first?

For the record, I specifically said that I don't think forgiveness has to be related to hate, rage, anger, or vengeance. I believe those emotions wouod be very unhelpful at this time. And i think saying thst anyone is criticizing forgiveness is farfetched. It really became a philosophical argument about the nature of forgiveness, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that! But I am not surprised (though I am disheartened) that many people are unable to wrap their minds around this and instead show anger and defensiveness over the very mention of the subject. Gimme a break. The best way to deal with events like these are to be honest and open. Not to express your reaction in the way everyone expects you to in their own versions of what an ideal world is (not speaking specifically about you here Last-12).

^^That's why I shut up. Also cuz I was sleeping, but mostly ^^ I can do philosophy. I can't do someone arguing with like one line of my point and ignoring everything else I said which explains/supports it.

I'm still really annoyed that 99.9% of the coverage I've seen is focusing on the doushebag and not the victims families. Did I tell you guys that of the 9 people he shot 6 were women and 3 were 70+ years old? I think I mentioned it elsewhere.

PJ_Soul

I totally get what you mean about who is being covered Ident, and it's not an uncommon reaction.
.... But then I think about what the most useful focus is hear, outside of the emotions. In a practical sense. And i figure that is paying attention to the killer's motives, philosophies, methods, the warning signs, where things could have been done differently to prevent this act, etc. Focusing on the killer is probably how we get better at preventing such murders. It highlights who everyone should be keeping their eyes on. Focusing on victims could perhaps fulfill an emotional need for folks who are sad and angry and feel like everyone and evert hung surrounding them should follow a prescribed method of handling this event - a method that most comforts them - but I'm not sure that should be a priority of the media.

markymark550

So here's something kind of chilling that I just found out. Apparently, a friend and coworker of my wife had the killer at her house. Her son went to school with the killer and she hosted a class party one year (I think she said it was when her son was in middle school). She's kind of freaked out about that.

ldent42

PJ_Soul said:

I totally get what you mean about who is being covered Ident, and it's not an uncommon reaction.
.... But then I think about what the most useful focus is hear, outside of the emotions. In a practical sense. And i figure that is paying attention to the killer's motives, philosophies, methods, the warning signs, where things could have been done differently to prevent this act, etc. Focusing on the killer is probably how we get better at preventing such murders. It highlights who everyone should be keeping their eyes on. Focusing on victims could perhaps fulfill an emotional need for folks who are sad and angry and feel like everyone and evert hung surrounding them should follow a prescribed method of handling this event - a method that most comforts them - but I'm not sure that should be a priority of the media.

I get that - BUT - in this case that kid wanted the attention. I really strongly believe that these guys shouldn't wind up with their faces and names known by the majority of the news watching national public. Part of me suspects that in their hate filled little brains they get off on the celebrity and that if there was an active media black out on the name and likeness of the shooters in all of these mass shooting cases it may help deter some future doushelord from doing this if he knows he won't get his name and photo on the front page. That's part of why I feel like the media attention should be focused on the victim families and the narrative basically being from their POV.

PJ_Soul

Yeah.... i personally don't think that the killer wanting attention (and a civil war) should mean a mass shooting fueled by racism doesn't warrant full attention directed at the killer. In this particular case, based on racism, which is a huge problem in the US, I think the killer actually requires close attention, no matter what the killer happens to want. The real issue here is racism, and that means the focus needs to be on the racist.

Last-12-Exit

It is unbelievable how the people of South Carolina refuse to see the problem with the confederate flag. I was told on facebook that my opinion did not matter because I was not born in the state! These people will claim to be tolerant at the same time tell you how proud they are to have this flag hanging at the Capitol. They are so blind to their own hypocrisy. It's truly disgusting. At a time when the city of Charleston is coming together so strongly, the wedge gets driven in so much deeper.

rgambs

ldent42 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I totally get what you mean about who is being covered Ident, and it's not an uncommon reaction.
.... But then I think about what the most useful focus is hear, outside of the emotions. In a practical sense. And i figure that is paying attention to the killer's motives, philosophies, methods, the warning signs, where things could have been done differently to prevent this act, etc. Focusing on the killer is probably how we get better at preventing such murders. It highlights who everyone should be keeping their eyes on. Focusing on victims could perhaps fulfill an emotional need for folks who are sad and angry and feel like everyone and evert hung surrounding them should follow a prescribed method of handling this event - a method that most comforts them - but I'm not sure that should be a priority of the media.

I get that - BUT - in this case that kid wanted the attention. I really strongly believe that these guys shouldn't wind up with their faces and names known by the majority of the news watching national public. Part of me suspects that in their hate filled little brains they get off on the celebrity and that if there was an active media black out on the name and likeness of the shooters in all of these mass shooting cases it may help deter some future doushelord from doing this if he knows he won't get his name and photo on the front page. That's part of why I feel like the media attention should be focused on the victim families and the narrative basically being from their POV.

Think about the insanity that would follow in the form of conspiracy theories!

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

It is unbelievable how the people of South Carolina refuse to see the problem with the confederate flag. I was told on facebook that my opinion did not matter because I was not born in the state! These people will claim to be tolerant at the same time tell you how proud they are to have this flag hanging at the Capitol. They are so blind to their own hypocrisy. It's truly disgusting. At a time when the city of Charleston is coming together so strongly, the wedge gets driven in so much deeper.

It has been interesting to me getting a look at the FB chatter surrounding this. The Michael Moore bit, the defense of the flag, the denials and acknowledgements of race issues. Very interesting!

Last-12-Exit

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It is unbelievable how the people of South Carolina refuse to see the problem with the confederate flag. I was told on facebook that my opinion did not matter because I was not born in the state! These people will claim to be tolerant at the same time tell you how proud they are to have this flag hanging at the Capitol. They are so blind to their own hypocrisy. It's truly disgusting. At a time when the city of Charleston is coming together so strongly, the wedge gets driven in so much deeper.

It has been interesting to me getting a look at the FB chatter surrounding this. The Michael Moore bit, the defense of the flag, the denials and acknowledgements of race issues. Very interesting!

The huge trend now I'm seeing is everyone going on Google and finding every black person toting a confederate flag t-shirt and posting "does this look racist?" It's fucking disturbing.

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

It is unbelievable how the people of South Carolina refuse to see the problem with the confederate flag. I was told on facebook that my opinion did not matter because I was not born in the state! These people will claim to be tolerant at the same time tell you how proud they are to have this flag hanging at the Capitol. They are so blind to their own hypocrisy. It's truly disgusting. At a time when the city of Charleston is coming together so strongly, the wedge gets driven in so much deeper.

It has been interesting to me getting a look at the FB chatter surrounding this. The Michael Moore bit, the defense of the flag, the denials and acknowledgements of race issues. Very interesting!

The huge trend now I'm seeing is everyone going on Google and finding every black person toting a confederate flag t-shirt and posting "does this look racist?" It's fucking disturbing.

Ohhh shit that is ignorant. I am seeing a good bit of pointing out that the Democrats were the "racist party" generations ago, as if that was somehow relevant.