Nugent pleads guilty over illegal bear killing

redrock wrote:

Well... there are people like Nugent who are quite happy to 'hunt' our 'everyday' wild animals (though already rounded up and baited for their pleasure) and also hunt species that are critically endangered, vulnerable or even extinct in the wild (again rounded up and baited) to have something to hang on their wall and there are people who are happy to support this kind of 'hunt'. Think what you want to think of them. There are some laws to protect the animals, though we see how easily their are broken.

But I bet for every person like this, there are 10/20/lots more who do care about our wildlife and work hard to keep the different species alive and well in the wild for the balance of the species, the ecological balance and also work hard for our children and their children, etc. to be able to enjoy these animals 'for real' and not just in books. This is what one needs to focus energy on.

pandora wrote:

Some posters have brought up the subject of Ted's previous illegal activity.
I believe the chargers in the past for Ted were having to do with baiting laws in CA


I am learning while researching much about hunting, practices and the laws governing
so to keep informed and understand the hunting world I found this...

here's an informative article for those who are open minded and not biased
against all hunters and the sport of hunting
if you are you will probably not gain anything by the read.


http://www.jdnews.com/articles/deer-596 ... nting.html
I was at the Dixie Deer Classic sportsman's show in Raleigh a few years ago when Phil Robertson, better known to avid waterfowlers as "The Duck Commander," was one of the featured speakers. Hunters familiar with Robertson know that he has become famous (and probably rich) by selling duck calls, hunting videos and other outdoor paraphernalia. They also know he is prone to tell it like it is - or, at least, the way he thinks it should be. Even so, those gathered in Raleigh were taken aback when the long-haired, bearded Cajun said that he sees nothing wrong with baiting ducks.

As I remember it, he said, "What difference does it make to the duck? He's dead either way. Instead of the game wardens spending their time and effort trying to catch someone hunting over corn, they should be focusing on catching those folks who shoot two or three times their legal limit. They're the problem."

You could have heard a pin drop in the big room. Men wearing caps with DU embroidered on the front looked at one another with their mouths hanging open. What the heck had he said? Was the man actually condoning baiting for ducks? Actually, I think the Duck Commander was just trying to make the point that game hogs, no matter what techniques they use, are a blight on sport hunting.

The interesting thing is, he could have made the same comments regarding baiting for whitetail deer and there probably wouldn't have been so much as a raised eyebrow. In the view of many sportsmen in this part of the country, baiting deer is an acceptable and perfectly legitimate hunting technique.

Why the difference? One reason is a practical one. Hunting for waterfowl or any other migratory birds over grain spread for the purpose of drawing them into a specific area has been illegal since it was outlawed by federal legislation in the 1930s. The reason for the ban was simple. Ducks and geese had been nearly wiped out by unregulated sport hunting and market gunning and it was felt that, if something wasn't done, they would go the way of the passenger pigeon.

Deer were different. They weren't migratory and weren't as susceptible to congregating in a baited area. Plus, the most popular deer hunting method in North Carolina's coastal plain was running hounds. Bait wasn't needed down east and deer weren't plentiful enough in other parts of the state to make it worthwhile. Gradually though, thanks to the efforts of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission and sportsmen's groups, whitetails became commonplace throughout the state, to the point of becoming overpopulated in some places. At the same time, still hunting from stands became more and more popular, especially with bows. And, using bait to draw deer within range and keep them there long enough for a shot became an accepted practice.

As it presently stands, baiting deer is not addressed in the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission regulations except where it is stated that "The placement of commercially available mineral supplements specifically and exclusively marketed for attracting or feeding deer is allowed anywhere in the state, except on game lands." And, "Placing bait on game lands is prohibited without written authorization." Baiting bear, boar and other game, including birds, is specifically against the rules.

In short, there is no law against baiting deer anywhere in the state except on pubic lands designated as Gamelands. This is not the case in South Carolina where baiting is prohibited in the piedmont but allowed in the dense, swampy coastal plain. Nationally, 22 states allow the practice.

So, baiting deer is legal in North Carolina. The next question for those considering it is, "Is it practical?" The answer to that depends, to a great extent, on who you're talking with. Many biologists maintain that hunters who do not bait actually have more success than those who do. A study done in South Carolina found that, "Although baiting may increase deer harvest rates under certain conditions, statewide deer harvest figures indicate that in the Piedmont, where baiting is prohibited, hunters harvest 30 percent more deer per square mile than hunters in the Coastal Plain where baiting is the norm. Also, coastal hunters expend 24 percent more time afield in harvesting this reduced number of deer." The researchers attributed the negative impacts of baiting to hunter dependence on bait, increased nocturnal behavior by deer around bait, and increased body condition which affects deer movements.

Some hunters acknowledge that baiting may not be an effective technique over a large portion of the landscape but maintain that it may make a major difference in select sites, especially when bow hunting. They point out that bait may not draw deer into areas that they are naturally adverse to visiting but, when placed along a preferred travel corridor, may prompt does and bucks to hesitate or linger close to the hunter's stand. One hunter likened it to having a bowl of candy on a kitchen counter. "You won't go into the kitchen specifically for some M&Ms but you might pause each time you pass by and take a handful," was the analogy he used. That pause can be critical to a bowhunter who needs a stationary target within 30 yards or so to ensure a clean kill.

One factor that hunters who bait for deer have to consider, especially in today's economic climate, is the cost-benefit ratio of the practice. A few years ago corn, the preferred bait in most places, was selling for $6 per 100 pound bag. Today it's going for over three times that amount. Not only that, but it has to be hauled to the bait site and distributed in a manner that is effective. In many regions of the coastal plain, bears are a consideration. If corn is simply dumped in a pile, they will find it in short order, eat it up and run the deer off. Likewise, if there are turkeys around, they will move like a vacuum cleaner through where corn has been broadcast.

The solution to those problems in many instances may be a battery-powered feeder. Of course, that is yet another expense and added maintenance. And, there is no guarantee that an acrobatic bear won't be able to reach a suspended feeder and its contents.

Scott Overly of New Bern, an avid bow and gun hunter, is a firm believer in the effectiveness of using bait for deer and said recently that he has spread as much a 100 lb. per week in past seasons. He noted that he has never had a trophy buck come to consume the corn he put out but that he has had bucks follow does who came to the bait. He pointed out that the shots he has at animals near a bait site are generally more controlled and consistent, in other words more effective - a major concern for conscientious sportsmen.

Perhaps the greatest concern about baiting deer relates to the question of fair chase. Is harvesting an animal over spread corn "sporting?" Does the presence of bait in any way diminish the value of a trophy? It's interesting to note that the Boone and Crockett Club, the acknowledged authority on big game trophies, says only that entries are ineligible if they are "Not in full compliance with game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands." B & C defines "fair chase" as "the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such game animals."

Does bait give a hunter "an improper advantage?" Some think so, others don't. As long as state regulations don't prohibit baiting, sportsmen will have to decide for themselves whether it's the right thing to do. And, if it is, is it worth doing? Beyond that, what are the most effective methods? Those are questions each hunter has to address for himself - maybe while he's sitting at home, waiting for the rain to stop so he can go to the deer woods.

I am not in the judging profession as others seem to be,
my life has taught me that never works out.
As soon as you think you got someone pegged by gosh they grow, learn and change a bit,
as we all do.

And it is not baiting nor trolling to have a different opinion than yours.

brianlux wrote:

redrock wrote:

Well... there are people like Nugent who are quite happy to 'hunt' our 'everyday' wild animals (though already rounded up and baited for their pleasure) and also hunt species that are critically endangered, vulnerable or even extinct in the wild (again rounded up and baited) to have something to hang on their wall and there are people who are happy to support this kind of 'hunt'. Think what you want to think of them. There are some laws to protect the animals, though we see how easily their are broken.

But I bet for every person like this, there are 10/20/lots more who do care about our wildlife and work hard to keep the different species alive and well in the wild for the balance of the species, the ecological balance and also work hard for our children and their children, etc. to be able to enjoy these animals 'for real' and not just in books. This is what one needs to focus energy on.

Good point, Redrock, and yes we should encourage more people to be active in animal rights and wildlife and applaud those who are active that way.