Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
What size creature does the soul start to....lessen?
a tarantula?
a scorpion?
a giant flying cockroach?
the spider on catefrances' window?
what about the rat in the drain ditch?
the fly?
the ant?
the gnat?
Good question, Rollings! I'd say from my experiences with frog and spider digging PJ, it must be very small. Music is soul. Spider and Frogs love music. Spiders and frogs have soul. Good logic, huh?
Oh, and when I get around it it I'll tell you about the centipede the other day that...
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What size creature does the soul start to....lessen?
a tarantula?
a scorpion?
a giant flying cockroach?
the spider on catefrances' window?
what about the rat in the drain ditch?
the fly?
the ant?
the gnat?
Good question, Rollings! I'd say from my experiences with frog and spider digging PJ, it must be very small. Music is soul. Spider and Frogs love music. Spiders and frogs have soul. Good logic, huh?
Oh, and when I get around it it I'll tell you about the centipede the other day that...
Well, I don't know. Describe how said frog & spider were digging it.
Were their heads bobbing? Were they jumping straight up and down?....
Or could it be that they were merely reacting to vibrations they were receiving?
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
I'll try to dig up those posts when it's not so late.
How on earth did we get from Nugent to spiders to Debbie?
It's looking like we're done with Ted here. How much more can be said anyway?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I know he plead guilty but still that was not the normal sentence for a poacher.
Perhaps he is not considered a poacher in the eyes of the law and our government
or in many of the peoples eyes either.
Conspiracy theories coming up!
"As part of the plea deal, Nugent has agreed to pay a $10,000 fine, not to hunt or fish within Alaska or on any other U.S. Forest Service lands for one year. The deal also includes two years probation." Seems a perfectly 'normal' sentence (looking at others). Eg. a man got fined $28,000 for killing 4 animals, another one £10,000 for 2 animals, another $6,000 for one animal... Yes, some others got fined more, but others less. See... though a plea bargain, nothing strange in his sentence. Nugent IS considered a poacher in the eyes of the law and government and most decent people.
I know he plead guilty but still that was not the normal sentence for a poacher.
Perhaps he is not considered a poacher in the eyes of the law and our government
or in many of the peoples eyes either.
Conspiracy theories coming up!
"As part of the plea deal, Nugent has agreed to pay a $10,000 fine, not to hunt or fish within Alaska or on any other U.S. Forest Service lands for one year. The deal also includes two years probation." Seems a perfectly 'normal' sentence (looking at others). Eg. a man got fined $28,000 for killing 4 animals, another one £10,000 for 2 animals, another $6,000 for one animal... Yes, some others got fined more, but others less. See... though a plea bargain, nothing strange in his sentence. Nugent IS considered a poacher in the eyes of the law and government and most decent people.
I guess I must not be decent folk, that must be something those against hunting do,
decide who is decent or not :? I learned 15 years ago that is not up to me to decide.
[I guess I must not be decent folk, that must be something those against hunting do,
decide who is decent or not :? I learned 15 years ago that is not up to me to decide.
are you suggesting that nugent is not a real poacher?
Chad... all this is a bit of trolling and baiting and you're the catch (so am I, actually :oops: )! We all know what a poacher is, we all know what poaching means (and those that claim they don't can look it up). Nugent has had several 'encounters' with the law ref illegal hunting (poaching) - we know - it's documented. Whether one illegally hunts one animal or 10, it's poaching; just as whether one steals a bottle of alcohol or a whole consignment, it's theft.
If some people are OK with illegal hunts and trophy hunting with no regard to the wildlife and our mother earth, it's sad, but it's their prerogative, but they should come out clean about this and not try to excuse this kind of behaviour (which Nugent does - he's not ashamed of what he does and how he behaves, even if it is against the law and he has been caught and punished).
are you suggesting that nugent is not a real poacher?
Chad... all this is a bit of trolling and baiting and you're the catch (so am I, actually :oops: )! We all know what a poacher is, we all know what poaching means (and those that claim they don't can look it up). Nugent has had several 'encounters' with the law ref illegal hunting (poaching) - we know - it's documented. Whether one illegally hunts one animal or 10, it's poaching; just as whether one steals a bottle of alcohol or a whole consignment, it's theft.
If some people are OK with illegal hunts and trophy hunting with no regard to the wildlife and our mother earth, it's sad, but it's their prerogative, but they should come out clean about this and not try to excuse this kind of behaviour (which Nugent does - he's not ashamed of what he does and how he behaves, even if it is against the law and he has been caught and punished).
If he's getting caught for a few of these incidents, imagine how many he might have gotten away with that nobody knows about.
are you suggesting that nugent is not a real poacher?
Chad... all this is a bit of trolling and baiting and you're the catch (so am I, actually :oops: )! We all know what a poacher is, we all know what poaching means (and those that claim they don't can look it up). Nugent has had several 'encounters' with the law ref illegal hunting (poaching) - we know - it's documented. Whether one illegally hunts one animal or 10, it's poaching; just as whether one steals a bottle of alcohol or a whole consignment, it's theft.
If some people are OK with illegal hunts and trophy hunting with no regard to the wildlife and our mother earth, it's sad, but it's their prerogative, but they should come out clean about this and not try to excuse this kind of behaviour (which Nugent does - he's not ashamed of what he does and how he behaves, even if it is against the law and he has been caught and punished).
i never understand the baiting and trolling bit. as in... what the hell is baiting/trolling?
and you and i are the catch
so someone spouts out stupid bullshit in hopes of someone else getting all fired up and upset in hopes that the person will react in a defensive manner and maybe using inappropriate language leading them to getting a ban?
i guess i am actually understanding this whole baiting and trolling thing as i type this up.
wow... i am not impressed with these fucking people
Chad... all this is a bit of trolling and baiting and you're the catch (so am I, actually :oops: )! We all know what a poacher is, we all know what poaching means (and those that claim they don't can look it up). Nugent has had several 'encounters' with the law ref illegal hunting (poaching) - we know - it's documented. Whether one illegally hunts one animal or 10, it's poaching; just as whether one steals a bottle of alcohol or a whole consignment, it's theft.
If some people are OK with illegal hunts and trophy hunting with no regard to the wildlife and our mother earth, it's sad, but it's their prerogative, but they should come out clean about this and not try to excuse this kind of behaviour (which Nugent does - he's not ashamed of what he does and how he behaves, even if it is against the law and he has been caught and punished).
If he's getting caught for a few of these incidents, imagine how many he might have gotten away with that nobody knows about.
thank you jonny pistachio! that is exactly the facts. no one hardly ever gets busted the first go' round. no no and no. usually the person is a repeated offender before they are even busted once. this is a fact as i have been around long enough to understand how shit works.
Chad... all this is a bit of trolling and baiting and you're the catch (so am I, actually :oops: )! We all know what a poacher is, we all know what poaching means (and those that claim they don't can look it up). Nugent has had several 'encounters' with the law ref illegal hunting (poaching) - we know - it's documented. Whether one illegally hunts one animal or 10, it's poaching; just as whether one steals a bottle of alcohol or a whole consignment, it's theft.
If some people are OK with illegal hunts and trophy hunting with no regard to the wildlife and our mother earth, it's sad, but it's their prerogative, but they should come out clean about this and not try to excuse this kind of behaviour (which Nugent does - he's not ashamed of what he does and how he behaves, even if it is against the law and he has been caught and punished).
If he's getting caught for a few of these incidents, imagine how many he might have gotten away with that nobody knows about.
thank you jonny pistachio! that is exactly the facts. no one hardly ever gets busted the first go' round. no no and no. usually the person is a repeated offender before they are even busted once. this is a fact as i have been around long enough to understand how shit works.
exactly. how many people have driven buzzed 100 times before they finally get busted for dui?
the man is a repeat offender. he has most likely poached many times in the past.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
And I don't say that to be baiting. The "legal offending" is his whole schtick. He's all about pissing people off, getting their goat, stirring the pot. The man is an embarrassment to the right which is why so many are distancing from him. I'm amazed when I see anyone sticking up up for him. That's their right of course, but why do it?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Well... there are people like Nugent who are quite happy to 'hunt' our 'everyday' wild animals (though already rounded up and baited for their pleasure) and also hunt species that are critically endangered, vulnerable or even extinct in the wild (again rounded up and baited) to have something to hang on their wall and there are people who are happy to support this kind of 'hunt'. Think what you want to think of them. There are some laws to protect the animals, though we see how easily their are broken.
But I bet for every person like this, there are 10/20/lots more who do care about our wildlife and work hard to keep the different species alive and well in the wild for the balance of the species, the ecological balance and also work hard so our children's children and their children, etc. will be able to enjoy these animals 'for real' and not just in books. This is what one needs to focus energy on.
Some posters have brought up the subject of Ted's previous illegal activity. I believe the chargers in the past for Ted were having to do with baiting laws in CA
I am learning while researching much about hunting, practices and the laws governing
so to keep informed and understand the hunting world I found this...
here's an informative article for those who are open minded and not biased
against all hunters and the sport of hunting if you are you will probably not gain anything by the read.
http://www.jdnews.com/articles/deer-596 ... nting.html I was at the Dixie Deer Classic sportsman's show in Raleigh a few years ago when Phil Robertson, better known to avid waterfowlers as "The Duck Commander," was one of the featured speakers. Hunters familiar with Robertson know that he has become famous (and probably rich) by selling duck calls, hunting videos and other outdoor paraphernalia. They also know he is prone to tell it like it is - or, at least, the way he thinks it should be. Even so, those gathered in Raleigh were taken aback when the long-haired, bearded Cajun said that he sees nothing wrong with baiting ducks.
As I remember it, he said, "What difference does it make to the duck? He's dead either way. Instead of the game wardens spending their time and effort trying to catch someone hunting over corn, they should be focusing on catching those folks who shoot two or three times their legal limit. They're the problem."
You could have heard a pin drop in the big room. Men wearing caps with DU embroidered on the front looked at one another with their mouths hanging open. What the heck had he said? Was the man actually condoning baiting for ducks? Actually, I think the Duck Commander was just trying to make the point that game hogs, no matter what techniques they use, are a blight on sport hunting.
The interesting thing is, he could have made the same comments regarding baiting for whitetail deer and there probably wouldn't have been so much as a raised eyebrow. In the view of many sportsmen in this part of the country, baiting deer is an acceptable and perfectly legitimate hunting technique.
Why the difference? One reason is a practical one. Hunting for waterfowl or any other migratory birds over grain spread for the purpose of drawing them into a specific area has been illegal since it was outlawed by federal legislation in the 1930s. The reason for the ban was simple. Ducks and geese had been nearly wiped out by unregulated sport hunting and market gunning and it was felt that, if something wasn't done, they would go the way of the passenger pigeon.
Deer were different. They weren't migratory and weren't as susceptible to congregating in a baited area. Plus, the most popular deer hunting method in North Carolina's coastal plain was running hounds. Bait wasn't needed down east and deer weren't plentiful enough in other parts of the state to make it worthwhile. Gradually though, thanks to the efforts of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission and sportsmen's groups, whitetails became commonplace throughout the state, to the point of becoming overpopulated in some places. At the same time, still hunting from stands became more and more popular, especially with bows. And, using bait to draw deer within range and keep them there long enough for a shot became an accepted practice.
As it presently stands, baiting deer is not addressed in the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission regulations except where it is stated that "The placement of commercially available mineral supplements specifically and exclusively marketed for attracting or feeding deer is allowed anywhere in the state, except on game lands." And, "Placing bait on game lands is prohibited without written authorization." Baiting bear, boar and other game, including birds, is specifically against the rules.
In short, there is no law against baiting deer anywhere in the state except on pubic lands designated as Gamelands. This is not the case in South Carolina where baiting is prohibited in the piedmont but allowed in the dense, swampy coastal plain. Nationally, 22 states allow the practice.
So, baiting deer is legal in North Carolina. The next question for those considering it is, "Is it practical?" The answer to that depends, to a great extent, on who you're talking with. Many biologists maintain that hunters who do not bait actually have more success than those who do. A study done in South Carolina found that, "Although baiting may increase deer harvest rates under certain conditions, statewide deer harvest figures indicate that in the Piedmont, where baiting is prohibited, hunters harvest 30 percent more deer per square mile than hunters in the Coastal Plain where baiting is the norm. Also, coastal hunters expend 24 percent more time afield in harvesting this reduced number of deer." The researchers attributed the negative impacts of baiting to hunter dependence on bait, increased nocturnal behavior by deer around bait, and increased body condition which affects deer movements.
Some hunters acknowledge that baiting may not be an effective technique over a large portion of the landscape but maintain that it may make a major difference in select sites, especially when bow hunting. They point out that bait may not draw deer into areas that they are naturally adverse to visiting but, when placed along a preferred travel corridor, may prompt does and bucks to hesitate or linger close to the hunter's stand. One hunter likened it to having a bowl of candy on a kitchen counter. "You won't go into the kitchen specifically for some M&Ms but you might pause each time you pass by and take a handful," was the analogy he used. That pause can be critical to a bowhunter who needs a stationary target within 30 yards or so to ensure a clean kill.
One factor that hunters who bait for deer have to consider, especially in today's economic climate, is the cost-benefit ratio of the practice. A few years ago corn, the preferred bait in most places, was selling for $6 per 100 pound bag. Today it's going for over three times that amount. Not only that, but it has to be hauled to the bait site and distributed in a manner that is effective. In many regions of the coastal plain, bears are a consideration. If corn is simply dumped in a pile, they will find it in short order, eat it up and run the deer off. Likewise, if there are turkeys around, they will move like a vacuum cleaner through where corn has been broadcast.
The solution to those problems in many instances may be a battery-powered feeder. Of course, that is yet another expense and added maintenance. And, there is no guarantee that an acrobatic bear won't be able to reach a suspended feeder and its contents.
Scott Overly of New Bern, an avid bow and gun hunter, is a firm believer in the effectiveness of using bait for deer and said recently that he has spread as much a 100 lb. per week in past seasons. He noted that he has never had a trophy buck come to consume the corn he put out but that he has had bucks follow does who came to the bait. He pointed out that the shots he has at animals near a bait site are generally more controlled and consistent, in other words more effective - a major concern for conscientious sportsmen.
Perhaps the greatest concern about baiting deer relates to the question of fair chase. Is harvesting an animal over spread corn "sporting?" Does the presence of bait in any way diminish the value of a trophy? It's interesting to note that the Boone and Crockett Club, the acknowledged authority on big game trophies, says only that entries are ineligible if they are "Not in full compliance with game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands." B & C defines "fair chase" as "the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such game animals."
Does bait give a hunter "an improper advantage?" Some think so, others don't. As long as state regulations don't prohibit baiting, sportsmen will have to decide for themselves whether it's the right thing to do. And, if it is, is it worth doing? Beyond that, what are the most effective methods? Those are questions each hunter has to address for himself - maybe while he's sitting at home, waiting for the rain to stop so he can go to the deer woods.
I am not in the judging profession as others seem to be,
my life has taught me that never works out.
As soon as you think you got someone pegged by gosh they grow, learn and change a bit,
as we all do.
And it is not baiting nor trolling to have a different opinion than yours.
is breaking california law still not breaking the law???
seriously, wtf???
how can you excuse it?
Right! I'm from California and crazy as people seem to think this place is, breaking the law here is still breaking the law. His crime is inexcusable, here or anywhere that has similar laws.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
Well... there are people like Nugent who are quite happy to 'hunt' our 'everyday' wild animals (though already rounded up and baited for their pleasure) and also hunt species that are critically endangered, vulnerable or even extinct in the wild (again rounded up and baited) to have something to hang on their wall and there are people who are happy to support this kind of 'hunt'. Think what you want to think of them. There are some laws to protect the animals, though we see how easily their are broken.
But I bet for every person like this, there are 10/20/lots more who do care about our wildlife and work hard to keep the different species alive and well in the wild for the balance of the species, the ecological balance and also work hard for our children and their children, etc. to be able to enjoy these animals 'for real' and not just in books. This is what one needs to focus energy on.
Good point, Redrock, and yes we should encourage more people to be active in animal rights and wildlife and applaud those who are active that way.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I am not excusing any illegal behavior just attempting to understand it
and the man as I always do. I'd do the same for anyone.
That's the dealy bob here I am not biased against Ted nor hunters so I am keeping an open mind,
realizing that people learn from their mistakes and all have the right
to live their lives as they choose within the law. I don't pass judgement.
The Baiting info for me was very informative, an insight into the hunting world and its laws.
Some posters have brought up the subject of Ted's previous illegal activity. I believe the chargers in the past for Ted were having to do with baiting laws in CA
I am learning while researching much about hunting, practices and the laws governing
so to keep informed and understand the hunting world I found this...
here's an informative article for those who are open minded and not biased
against all hunters and the sport of hunting if you are you will probably not gain anything by the read.
http://www.jdnews.com/articles/deer-596 ... nting.html I was at the Dixie Deer Classic sportsman's show in Raleigh a few years ago when Phil Robertson, better known to avid waterfowlers as "The Duck Commander," was one of the featured speakers. Hunters familiar with Robertson know that he has become famous (and probably rich) by selling duck calls, hunting videos and other outdoor paraphernalia. They also know he is prone to tell it like it is - or, at least, the way he thinks it should be. Even so, those gathered in Raleigh were taken aback when the long-haired, bearded Cajun said that he sees nothing wrong with baiting ducks.
As I remember it, he said, "What difference does it make to the duck? He's dead either way. Instead of the game wardens spending their time and effort trying to catch someone hunting over corn, they should be focusing on catching those folks who shoot two or three times their legal limit. They're the problem."
You could have heard a pin drop in the big room. Men wearing caps with DU embroidered on the front looked at one another with their mouths hanging open. What the heck had he said? Was the man actually condoning baiting for ducks? Actually, I think the Duck Commander was just trying to make the point that game hogs, no matter what techniques they use, are a blight on sport hunting.
The interesting thing is, he could have made the same comments regarding baiting for whitetail deer and there probably wouldn't have been so much as a raised eyebrow. In the view of many sportsmen in this part of the country, baiting deer is an acceptable and perfectly legitimate hunting technique.
Why the difference? One reason is a practical one. Hunting for waterfowl or any other migratory birds over grain spread for the purpose of drawing them into a specific area has been illegal since it was outlawed by federal legislation in the 1930s. The reason for the ban was simple. Ducks and geese had been nearly wiped out by unregulated sport hunting and market gunning and it was felt that, if something wasn't done, they would go the way of the passenger pigeon.
Deer were different. They weren't migratory and weren't as susceptible to congregating in a baited area. Plus, the most popular deer hunting method in North Carolina's coastal plain was running hounds. Bait wasn't needed down east and deer weren't plentiful enough in other parts of the state to make it worthwhile. Gradually though, thanks to the efforts of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission and sportsmen's groups, whitetails became commonplace throughout the state, to the point of becoming overpopulated in some places. At the same time, still hunting from stands became more and more popular, especially with bows. And, using bait to draw deer within range and keep them there long enough for a shot became an accepted practice.
As it presently stands, baiting deer is not addressed in the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission regulations except where it is stated that "The placement of commercially available mineral supplements specifically and exclusively marketed for attracting or feeding deer is allowed anywhere in the state, except on game lands." And, "Placing bait on game lands is prohibited without written authorization." Baiting bear, boar and other game, including birds, is specifically against the rules.
In short, there is no law against baiting deer anywhere in the state except on pubic lands designated as Gamelands. This is not the case in South Carolina where baiting is prohibited in the piedmont but allowed in the dense, swampy coastal plain. Nationally, 22 states allow the practice.
So, baiting deer is legal in North Carolina. The next question for those considering it is, "Is it practical?" The answer to that depends, to a great extent, on who you're talking with. Many biologists maintain that hunters who do not bait actually have more success than those who do. A study done in South Carolina found that, "Although baiting may increase deer harvest rates under certain conditions, statewide deer harvest figures indicate that in the Piedmont, where baiting is prohibited, hunters harvest 30 percent more deer per square mile than hunters in the Coastal Plain where baiting is the norm. Also, coastal hunters expend 24 percent more time afield in harvesting this reduced number of deer." The researchers attributed the negative impacts of baiting to hunter dependence on bait, increased nocturnal behavior by deer around bait, and increased body condition which affects deer movements.
Some hunters acknowledge that baiting may not be an effective technique over a large portion of the landscape but maintain that it may make a major difference in select sites, especially when bow hunting. They point out that bait may not draw deer into areas that they are naturally adverse to visiting but, when placed along a preferred travel corridor, may prompt does and bucks to hesitate or linger close to the hunter's stand. One hunter likened it to having a bowl of candy on a kitchen counter. "You won't go into the kitchen specifically for some M&Ms but you might pause each time you pass by and take a handful," was the analogy he used. That pause can be critical to a bowhunter who needs a stationary target within 30 yards or so to ensure a clean kill.
One factor that hunters who bait for deer have to consider, especially in today's economic climate, is the cost-benefit ratio of the practice. A few years ago corn, the preferred bait in most places, was selling for $6 per 100 pound bag. Today it's going for over three times that amount. Not only that, but it has to be hauled to the bait site and distributed in a manner that is effective. In many regions of the coastal plain, bears are a consideration. If corn is simply dumped in a pile, they will find it in short order, eat it up and run the deer off. Likewise, if there are turkeys around, they will move like a vacuum cleaner through where corn has been broadcast.
The solution to those problems in many instances may be a battery-powered feeder. Of course, that is yet another expense and added maintenance. And, there is no guarantee that an acrobatic bear won't be able to reach a suspended feeder and its contents.
Scott Overly of New Bern, an avid bow and gun hunter, is a firm believer in the effectiveness of using bait for deer and said recently that he has spread as much a 100 lb. per week in past seasons. He noted that he has never had a trophy buck come to consume the corn he put out but that he has had bucks follow does who came to the bait. He pointed out that the shots he has at animals near a bait site are generally more controlled and consistent, in other words more effective - a major concern for conscientious sportsmen.
Perhaps the greatest concern about baiting deer relates to the question of fair chase. Is harvesting an animal over spread corn "sporting?" Does the presence of bait in any way diminish the value of a trophy? It's interesting to note that the Boone and Crockett Club, the acknowledged authority on big game trophies, says only that entries are ineligible if they are "Not in full compliance with game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands." B & C defines "fair chase" as "the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such game animals."
Does bait give a hunter "an improper advantage?" Some think so, others don't. As long as state regulations don't prohibit baiting, sportsmen will have to decide for themselves whether it's the right thing to do. And, if it is, is it worth doing? Beyond that, what are the most effective methods? Those are questions each hunter has to address for himself - maybe while he's sitting at home, waiting for the rain to stop so he can go to the deer woods.
I am not in the judging profession as others seem to be,
my life has taught me that never works out.
As soon as you think you got someone pegged by gosh they grow, learn and change a bit,
as we all do.
And it is not baiting nor trolling to have a different opinion than yours.
I get what you are saying about not judging the person, but let's not confuse that with condoning their actions or finding their behavior accepatable. I think many here could be confusing this with your position.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
What do you mean 'I am not excusing any illegal behavior just attempting to understand it ". The man knowingly broke the law - what is there to understand? 'Poor lil' Ted.. he was in California and there they don't allow baiting but maybe it's because he thought he was in NC where it's allowed'?
Well... there are people like Nugent who are quite happy to 'hunt' our 'everyday' wild animals (though already rounded up and baited for their pleasure) and also hunt species that are critically endangered, vulnerable or even extinct in the wild (again rounded up and baited) to have something to hang on their wall and there are people who are happy to support this kind of 'hunt'. Think what you want to think of them. There are some laws to protect the animals, though we see how easily their are broken.
But I bet for every person like this, there are 10/20/lots more who do care about our wildlife and work hard to keep the different species alive and well in the wild for the balance of the species, the ecological balance and also work hard for our children and their children, etc. to be able to enjoy these animals 'for real' and not just in books. This is what one needs to focus energy on.
Good point, Redrock, and yes we should encourage more people to be active in animal rights and wildlife and applaud those who are active that way.
It's not that difficult to do. Just a bit of spare time. Doesn't have to be working on major projects or demonstrating or anything like that. Locally, my daughter and I are involved in all kinds of 'small' projects which help wildlife (I'm also a bit more active with animal rights issues but that's because I'm older!) - anywhere from animal welfare to rehab to habitat management (in order to get certain animals back where they belong) to education and dissemination of information and yes, also illegal killing of animals (and that includes squirrels!). Every little bit helps. But I digress - as we were reminded, the thread is about Nugent and his killings - not saving animals!
I am not excusing any illegal behavior just attempting to understand it
and the man as I always do. I'd do the same for anyone.
That's the dealy bob here I am not biased against Ted nor hunters so I am keeping an open mind,
realizing that people learn from their mistakes and all have the right
to live their lives as they choose within the law. I don't pass judgement.
The Baiting info for me was very informative, an insight into the hunting world and its laws.
but he HAS NOT learned from his "mistakes".
how much evidence and how many screw ups does it take for you or anyone else to recognize that there is a pattern of lawless behavior? 10? 20? 100?
you can reserve your judgement if you want to, but as for me and most people in this thread, and on behalf of the animals he has slaughtered in those cases, i judge him guilty as charged.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I am not excusing any illegal behavior just attempting to understand it
and the man as I always do. I'd do the same for anyone.
That's the dealy bob here I am not biased against Ted nor hunters so I am keeping an open mind,
realizing that people learn from their mistakes and all have the right
to live their lives as they choose within the law. I don't pass judgement.
The Baiting info for me was very informative, an insight into the hunting world and its laws.
but he HAS NOT learned from his "mistakes".
how much evidence and how many screw ups does it take for you or anyone else to recognize that there is a pattern of lawless behavior? 10? 20? 100?
you can reserve your judgement if you want to, but as for me and most people in this thread, and on behalf of the animals he has slaughtered in those cases, i judge him guilty as charged.
I think a comparison to a Dui situation was a good one. Ted is on probation...
his first, he will hopefully learn to follow the hunting regulations per state now,
just as person who loses his license, is on probation, learns to not drink and drive.
Until that point often they don't learn. This a analogy we can relate to not being hunters.
I wonder though if it is not the hunting itself you hold him accountable for,
not only that outside the law.
The pics you posted of animals with souls, you being a vegetarian,
this means you are not hypocritical in your beliefs against hunting.
Comments
yep ! a real stand up American, have you heard his views on crimes ?
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Ok ...
-Hippocrates
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i am surprised though at how many do not support this belief
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"With our thoughts we make the world"
a tarantula?
a scorpion?
a giant flying cockroach?
the spider on catefrances' window?
what about the rat in the drain ditch?
the fly?
the ant?
the gnat?
Good question, Rollings! I'd say from my experiences with frog and spider digging PJ, it must be very small. Music is soul. Spider and Frogs love music. Spiders and frogs have soul. Good logic, huh?
Oh, and when I get around it it I'll tell you about the centipede the other day that...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Well, I don't know. Describe how said frog & spider were digging it.
Were their heads bobbing? Were they jumping straight up and down?....
Or could it be that they were merely reacting to vibrations they were receiving?
How on earth did we get from Nugent to spiders to Debbie?
It's looking like we're done with Ted here. How much more can be said anyway?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"As part of the plea deal, Nugent has agreed to pay a $10,000 fine, not to hunt or fish within Alaska or on any other U.S. Forest Service lands for one year. The deal also includes two years probation." Seems a perfectly 'normal' sentence (looking at others). Eg. a man got fined $28,000 for killing 4 animals, another one £10,000 for 2 animals, another $6,000 for one animal... Yes, some others got fined more, but others less. See... though a plea bargain, nothing strange in his sentence. Nugent IS considered a poacher in the eyes of the law and government and most decent people.
decide who is decent or not :? I learned 15 years ago that is not up to me to decide.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/galle ... fines-ever
wow I had no idea the punishments and fines and what real poachers are doing...
the government has it's hands full :shock:
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Chad... all this is a bit of trolling and baiting and you're the catch (so am I, actually :oops: )! We all know what a poacher is, we all know what poaching means (and those that claim they don't can look it up). Nugent has had several 'encounters' with the law ref illegal hunting (poaching) - we know - it's documented. Whether one illegally hunts one animal or 10, it's poaching; just as whether one steals a bottle of alcohol or a whole consignment, it's theft.
If some people are OK with illegal hunts and trophy hunting with no regard to the wildlife and our mother earth, it's sad, but it's their prerogative, but they should come out clean about this and not try to excuse this kind of behaviour (which Nugent does - he's not ashamed of what he does and how he behaves, even if it is against the law and he has been caught and punished).
If he's getting caught for a few of these incidents, imagine how many he might have gotten away with that nobody knows about.
and you and i are the catch
so someone spouts out stupid bullshit in hopes of someone else getting all fired up and upset in hopes that the person will react in a defensive manner and maybe using inappropriate language leading them to getting a ban?
i guess i am actually understanding this whole baiting and trolling thing as i type this up.
wow... i am not impressed with these fucking people
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
the man is a repeat offender. he has most likely poached many times in the past.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Well said, gimme. Both legally and illegally!
And I don't say that to be baiting. The "legal offending" is his whole schtick. He's all about pissing people off, getting their goat, stirring the pot. The man is an embarrassment to the right which is why so many are distancing from him. I'm amazed when I see anyone sticking up up for him. That's their right of course, but why do it?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
But I bet for every person like this, there are 10/20/lots more who do care about our wildlife and work hard to keep the different species alive and well in the wild for the balance of the species, the ecological balance and also work hard so our children's children and their children, etc. will be able to enjoy these animals 'for real' and not just in books. This is what one needs to focus energy on.
I believe the chargers in the past for Ted were having to do with baiting laws in CA
I am learning while researching much about hunting, practices and the laws governing
so to keep informed and understand the hunting world I found this...
here's an informative article for those who are open minded and not biased
against all hunters and the sport of hunting
if you are you will probably not gain anything by the read.
http://www.jdnews.com/articles/deer-596 ... nting.html
I was at the Dixie Deer Classic sportsman's show in Raleigh a few years ago when Phil Robertson, better known to avid waterfowlers as "The Duck Commander," was one of the featured speakers. Hunters familiar with Robertson know that he has become famous (and probably rich) by selling duck calls, hunting videos and other outdoor paraphernalia. They also know he is prone to tell it like it is - or, at least, the way he thinks it should be. Even so, those gathered in Raleigh were taken aback when the long-haired, bearded Cajun said that he sees nothing wrong with baiting ducks.
As I remember it, he said, "What difference does it make to the duck? He's dead either way. Instead of the game wardens spending their time and effort trying to catch someone hunting over corn, they should be focusing on catching those folks who shoot two or three times their legal limit. They're the problem."
You could have heard a pin drop in the big room. Men wearing caps with DU embroidered on the front looked at one another with their mouths hanging open. What the heck had he said? Was the man actually condoning baiting for ducks? Actually, I think the Duck Commander was just trying to make the point that game hogs, no matter what techniques they use, are a blight on sport hunting.
The interesting thing is, he could have made the same comments regarding baiting for whitetail deer and there probably wouldn't have been so much as a raised eyebrow. In the view of many sportsmen in this part of the country, baiting deer is an acceptable and perfectly legitimate hunting technique.
Why the difference? One reason is a practical one. Hunting for waterfowl or any other migratory birds over grain spread for the purpose of drawing them into a specific area has been illegal since it was outlawed by federal legislation in the 1930s. The reason for the ban was simple. Ducks and geese had been nearly wiped out by unregulated sport hunting and market gunning and it was felt that, if something wasn't done, they would go the way of the passenger pigeon.
Deer were different. They weren't migratory and weren't as susceptible to congregating in a baited area. Plus, the most popular deer hunting method in North Carolina's coastal plain was running hounds. Bait wasn't needed down east and deer weren't plentiful enough in other parts of the state to make it worthwhile. Gradually though, thanks to the efforts of the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission and sportsmen's groups, whitetails became commonplace throughout the state, to the point of becoming overpopulated in some places. At the same time, still hunting from stands became more and more popular, especially with bows. And, using bait to draw deer within range and keep them there long enough for a shot became an accepted practice.
As it presently stands, baiting deer is not addressed in the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission regulations except where it is stated that "The placement of commercially available mineral supplements specifically and exclusively marketed for attracting or feeding deer is allowed anywhere in the state, except on game lands." And, "Placing bait on game lands is prohibited without written authorization." Baiting bear, boar and other game, including birds, is specifically against the rules.
In short, there is no law against baiting deer anywhere in the state except on pubic lands designated as Gamelands. This is not the case in South Carolina where baiting is prohibited in the piedmont but allowed in the dense, swampy coastal plain. Nationally, 22 states allow the practice.
So, baiting deer is legal in North Carolina. The next question for those considering it is, "Is it practical?" The answer to that depends, to a great extent, on who you're talking with. Many biologists maintain that hunters who do not bait actually have more success than those who do. A study done in South Carolina found that, "Although baiting may increase deer harvest rates under certain conditions, statewide deer harvest figures indicate that in the Piedmont, where baiting is prohibited, hunters harvest 30 percent more deer per square mile than hunters in the Coastal Plain where baiting is the norm. Also, coastal hunters expend 24 percent more time afield in harvesting this reduced number of deer." The researchers attributed the negative impacts of baiting to hunter dependence on bait, increased nocturnal behavior by deer around bait, and increased body condition which affects deer movements.
Some hunters acknowledge that baiting may not be an effective technique over a large portion of the landscape but maintain that it may make a major difference in select sites, especially when bow hunting. They point out that bait may not draw deer into areas that they are naturally adverse to visiting but, when placed along a preferred travel corridor, may prompt does and bucks to hesitate or linger close to the hunter's stand. One hunter likened it to having a bowl of candy on a kitchen counter. "You won't go into the kitchen specifically for some M&Ms but you might pause each time you pass by and take a handful," was the analogy he used. That pause can be critical to a bowhunter who needs a stationary target within 30 yards or so to ensure a clean kill.
One factor that hunters who bait for deer have to consider, especially in today's economic climate, is the cost-benefit ratio of the practice. A few years ago corn, the preferred bait in most places, was selling for $6 per 100 pound bag. Today it's going for over three times that amount. Not only that, but it has to be hauled to the bait site and distributed in a manner that is effective. In many regions of the coastal plain, bears are a consideration. If corn is simply dumped in a pile, they will find it in short order, eat it up and run the deer off. Likewise, if there are turkeys around, they will move like a vacuum cleaner through where corn has been broadcast.
The solution to those problems in many instances may be a battery-powered feeder. Of course, that is yet another expense and added maintenance. And, there is no guarantee that an acrobatic bear won't be able to reach a suspended feeder and its contents.
Scott Overly of New Bern, an avid bow and gun hunter, is a firm believer in the effectiveness of using bait for deer and said recently that he has spread as much a 100 lb. per week in past seasons. He noted that he has never had a trophy buck come to consume the corn he put out but that he has had bucks follow does who came to the bait. He pointed out that the shots he has at animals near a bait site are generally more controlled and consistent, in other words more effective - a major concern for conscientious sportsmen.
Perhaps the greatest concern about baiting deer relates to the question of fair chase. Is harvesting an animal over spread corn "sporting?" Does the presence of bait in any way diminish the value of a trophy? It's interesting to note that the Boone and Crockett Club, the acknowledged authority on big game trophies, says only that entries are ineligible if they are "Not in full compliance with game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands." B & C defines "fair chase" as "the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such game animals."
Does bait give a hunter "an improper advantage?" Some think so, others don't. As long as state regulations don't prohibit baiting, sportsmen will have to decide for themselves whether it's the right thing to do. And, if it is, is it worth doing? Beyond that, what are the most effective methods? Those are questions each hunter has to address for himself - maybe while he's sitting at home, waiting for the rain to stop so he can go to the deer woods.
I am not in the judging profession as others seem to be,
my life has taught me that never works out.
As soon as you think you got someone pegged by gosh they grow, learn and change a bit,
as we all do.
And it is not baiting nor trolling to have a different opinion than yours.
seriously, wtf???
how can you excuse it?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Right! I'm from California and crazy as people seem to think this place is, breaking the law here is still breaking the law. His crime is inexcusable, here or anywhere that has similar laws.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Good point, Redrock, and yes we should encourage more people to be active in animal rights and wildlife and applaud those who are active that way.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
and the man as I always do. I'd do the same for anyone.
That's the dealy bob here I am not biased against Ted nor hunters so I am keeping an open mind,
realizing that people learn from their mistakes and all have the right
to live their lives as they choose within the law. I don't pass judgement.
The Baiting info for me was very informative, an insight into the hunting world and its laws.
I get what you are saying about not judging the person, but let's not confuse that with condoning their actions or finding their behavior accepatable. I think many here could be confusing this with your position.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
It's not that difficult to do. Just a bit of spare time. Doesn't have to be working on major projects or demonstrating or anything like that. Locally, my daughter and I are involved in all kinds of 'small' projects which help wildlife (I'm also a bit more active with animal rights issues but that's because I'm older!) - anywhere from animal welfare to rehab to habitat management (in order to get certain animals back where they belong) to education and dissemination of information and yes, also illegal killing of animals (and that includes squirrels!). Every little bit helps. But I digress - as we were reminded, the thread is about Nugent and his killings - not saving animals!
how much evidence and how many screw ups does it take for you or anyone else to recognize that there is a pattern of lawless behavior? 10? 20? 100?
you can reserve your judgement if you want to, but as for me and most people in this thread, and on behalf of the animals he has slaughtered in those cases, i judge him guilty as charged.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I think a comparison to a Dui situation was a good one. Ted is on probation...
his first, he will hopefully learn to follow the hunting regulations per state now,
just as person who loses his license, is on probation, learns to not drink and drive.
Until that point often they don't learn. This a analogy we can relate to not being hunters.
I wonder though if it is not the hunting itself you hold him accountable for,
not only that outside the law.
The pics you posted of animals with souls, you being a vegetarian,
this means you are not hypocritical in your beliefs against hunting.
I understand and admire your noble stance.