Nugent pleads guilty over illegal bear killing

redrock

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

Hunting animals within the law is entirely different than abusing a pet, I think we
can all agree on that.

:?: Has anyone been talking about abusing pets? I don't think so.

Chad just questioned me about it ...

chadwick

pandora,
who will stick up for the elephants and bears that are murdered? do you run and hide when things you dislike happen to dogs? what about those who eat dogs? do you open your heart to them as i know you are a dog lover?

I think Chad was more looking at the possibility of hunting dogs for trophies and/or maybe eating them (in our culture) and wondering if you would have such an 'open heart' attitude towards an animal you may favour over another one (eg big game) if 'hunters' would do this. From your response, it would seem that hunting/killing a dog is animal abuse then, but for big game it's ok. Hmmmmm.... (Note: This obviously was theoretical as we are not talking about legality - we know it is illegal to hunt/kill a dog in the US. It is looking at the ethical side of things)

redrock

Godfather. wrote:

I think some train members resort to the extream and even....a little white lie to make a point,

Uh-hun....

pandora wrote:

...Ted respects animals, life and the hunt as many other hunters do.

redrock

lukin2006 wrote:

Unfortunately that seems to be true...hunting is a perfectly legal activity...unless a person is a vegan, we do not have much room to talk...why can't people see that.

So one is not allowed to comment, discuss, have thoughts about any legal activity? Do we have to be sheep and accept unconditionally everything that is 'legal'. Oil spills are from legal drilling, legal transport of oil, etc. Do we just hush every oil spill up? Death penalty is legal (in certain states/countries) - do we all have to accept this? And another one, for a bit of 'fun' for some, pooping in rivers, etc. is legal, can you imagine the pollution from the millions of people doing this? Can we not support a campaign for people to 'do the right thing' with their poop?

lukin2006

redrock wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Unfortunately that seems to be true...hunting is a perfectly legal activity...unless a person is a vegan, we do not have much room to talk...why can't people see that.

So one is not allowed to comment, discuss, have thoughts about any legal activity? Do we have to be sheep and accept unconditionally everything that is 'legal'. Oil spills are from legal drilling, legal transport of oil, etc. Do we just hush every oil spill up? Death penalty is legal (in certain states/countries) - do we all have to accept this? And another one, for a bit of 'fun' for some, pooping in rivers, etc. is legal, can you imagine the pollution from the millions of people doing this? Can we not support a campaign for people to 'do the right thing' with their poop?

Nope never said that all...discuss whatever you want to discuss and however you want it discuss it. I am saying that you can not condone the slaughter of cattle/pigs/chickens etc., and then in the other breath criticize another because they choose to hunt deer, bear or what ever they hunt...really unless your a vegan or non meat eater you are somewhat responsible for the death of an animal...and I'm not a vegan.

Godfather.

redrock wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Unfortunately that seems to be true...hunting is a perfectly legal activity...unless a person is a vegan, we do not have much room to talk...why can't people see that.

So one is not allowed to comment, discuss, have thoughts about any legal activity? Do we have to be sheep and accept unconditionally everything that is 'legal'. Oil spills are from legal drilling, legal transport of oil, etc. Do we just hush every oil spill up? Death penalty is legal (in certain states/countries) - do we all have to accept this? And another one, for a bit of 'fun' for some, pooping in rivers, etc. is legal, can you imagine the pollution from the millions of people doing this? Can we not support a campaign for people to 'do the right thing' with their poop?

support and comment on what ever you want but because A few of us don't have a problem with Ted's hunting some people on here make personal attacks which turns into back and forth meaningless arguments, I know you haven't but a few on here do and that's not o.k.
by the time this tread moves on a little who's knows what people will be saying about hunters.



Godfather.

redrock

lukin2006 wrote:

redrock wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Unfortunately that seems to be true...hunting is a perfectly legal activity...unless a person is a vegan, we do not have much room to talk...why can't people see that.

So one is not allowed to comment, discuss, have thoughts about any legal activity? Do we have to be sheep and accept unconditionally everything that is 'legal'. Oil spills are from legal drilling, legal transport of oil, etc. Do we just hush every oil spill up? Death penalty is legal (in certain states/countries) - do we all have to accept this? And another one, for a bit of 'fun' for some, pooping in rivers, etc. is legal, can you imagine the pollution from the millions of people doing this? Can we not support a campaign for people to 'do the right thing' with their poop?

Nope never said that all...discuss whatever you want to discuss and however you want it discuss it. I am saying that you can not condone the slaughter of cattle/pigs/chickens etc., and then in the other breath criticize another because they choose to hunt deer, bear or what ever they hunt...really unless your a vegan or non meat eater you are somewhat responsible for the death of an animal...and I'm not a vegan.

I think a clear distinction has been made between killing an animal for food and the wanton killing of an animal for no other reason than ' sport'. The thrill the chase and the kill and the added bonus of a stuffed head on your wall. I also said that true vegetarians would probably take exception to this. Raising and slaughtering animals for our consumption does also raise numerous ethical questions (manner of farming, of slaughtering...).

Maybe a bit of an extreme example to try and explain the difference.. Whilst understanding that killing another human being is wrong, we may distinguish between someone killing in self defence and another going out with a gun looking for someone to kill ' for the heck of it'. People may accept that the first scenario is wrong but ' acceptable' whilst the second one is just plain sick. Others may think killing is killing, whatever the reasons (like vegetarians with meat eaters) think distinction has clearly been made between killing an animal for food and wanton killing for the thrill of the chase and kill with no other goal than ' sports' and trophies.

redrock

Sorry previous post went weird at the end. First sentence was ' lost' but then tagged at the end. Unable to correct!

lukin2006

redrock wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

redrock wrote:

]

So one is not allowed to comment, discuss, have thoughts about any legal activity? Do we have to be sheep and accept unconditionally everything that is 'legal'. Oil spills are from legal drilling, legal transport of oil, etc. Do we just hush every oil spill up? Death penalty is legal (in certain states/countries) - do we all have to accept this? And another one, for a bit of 'fun' for some, pooping in rivers, etc. is legal, can you imagine the pollution from the millions of people doing this? Can we not support a campaign for people to 'do the right thing' with their poop?

Nope never said that all...discuss whatever you want to discuss and however you want it discuss it. I am saying that you can not condone the slaughter of cattle/pigs/chickens etc., and then in the other breath criticize another because they choose to hunt deer, bear or what ever they hunt...really unless your a vegan or non meat eater you are somewhat responsible for the death of an animal...and I'm not a vegan.

I think a clear distinction has been made between killing an animal for food and the wanton killing of an animal for no other reason than ' sport'. The thrill the chase and the kill and the added bonus of a stuffed head on your wall. I also said that true vegetarians would probably take exception to this. Raising and slaughtering animals for our consumption does also raise numerous ethical questions (manner of farming, of slaughtering...).

Maybe a bit of an extreme example to try and explain the difference.. Whilst understanding that killing another human being is wrong, we may distinguish between someone killing in self defence and another going out with a gun looking for someone to kill ' for the heck of it'. People may accept that the first scenario is wrong but ' acceptable' whilst the second one is just plain sick. Others may think killing is killing, whatever the reasons (like vegetarians with meat eaters) think distinction has clearly been made between killing an animal for food and wanton killing for the thrill of the chase and kill with no other goal than ' sports' and trophies.

Well I'm just stating what my opinion is on the subject. I am not a Nugent fan nor do I condone harming an animal just to stuff and hang on your wall...but hunting for substances is really no different than going to a grocery store to buy a steak, except going to the grocery you don't get your hands dirty.

Now I've always read that any meat captured in the hunt by Nugent is not wasted...so if the meat is not wasted and he wants to stuff the animal should not be that big a deal...but I guess you would have to ask a hunter why the need to stuff an animal they've killed.

chadwick

pandora wrote:

chadwick wrote:

pandora,
who will stick up for the elephants and bears that are murdered? do you run and hide when things you dislike happen to dogs? what about those who eat dogs? do you open your heart to them as i know you are a dog lover?

I was just thinking about this...
I thought about those who have lived an entire lifetime without knowing the love
of a pet :shock: for me that is inconceivable but for them it is right, they feel
they are missing nothing.
Should I judge those who choose not to love dogs or who are afraid of them?
Those who choose to hate cats or think snakes are grotesque?

It is the same situation, in that it not up to me to choose another's values nor tell
them what they should do in their life. I manage my own. This is all I can do.

Hunting animals within the law is entirely different than abusing a pet, I think we
can all agree on that. I have gotten involved in animal abuse issues but that is not
what this thread is about.

It is about big game hunting and as I have said I will not judge another simply because
they are hunters. I have valid personal reasons, I have done so in my life
and been very wrong. You can not judge a heart by this alone and no one can know
another's motives nor what drives them individually.

i only need read your first few lines before replying. i try very hard to not ever ever use the word pet when refering to any of the animals i may have ever befriended and took into my home. they never ever were a pet of mine. i never ever were ever their master. not ever. that is the difference in you and i, pandora. i hope you think on that and let it roam around in your thoughts for awhile.

chadwick

Godfather. wrote:

redrock wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Unfortunately that seems to be true...hunting is a perfectly legal activity...unless a person is a vegan, we do not have much room to talk...why can't people see that.

So one is not allowed to comment, discuss, have thoughts about any legal activity? Do we have to be sheep and accept unconditionally everything that is 'legal'. Oil spills are from legal drilling, legal transport of oil, etc. Do we just hush every oil spill up? Death penalty is legal (in certain states/countries) - do we all have to accept this? And another one, for a bit of 'fun' for some, pooping in rivers, etc. is legal, can you imagine the pollution from the millions of people doing this? Can we not support a campaign for people to 'do the right thing' with their poop?

support and comment on what ever you want but because A few of us don't have a problem with Ted's hunting some people on here make personal attacks which turns into back and forth meaningless arguments, I know you haven't but a few on here do and that's not o.k.
by the time this tread moves on a little who's knows what people will be saying about hunters.



Godfather.

funny. personal attacks? you call this conversation and debate and even heated online back and forth writing between several folks, personal attacks? i am not seeing everything i guess.

pandora

chadwick wrote:

pandora wrote:

chadwick wrote:

pandora,
who will stick up for the elephants and bears that are murdered? do you run and hide when things you dislike happen to dogs? what about those who eat dogs? do you open your heart to them as i know you are a dog lover?

I was just thinking about this...
I thought about those who have lived an entire lifetime without knowing the love
of a pet :shock: for me that is inconceivable but for them it is right, they feel
they are missing nothing.
Should I judge those who choose not to love dogs or who are afraid of them?
Those who choose to hate cats or think snakes are grotesque?

It is the same situation, in that it not up to me to choose another's values nor tell
them what they should do in their life. I manage my own. This is all I can do.

Hunting animals within the law is entirely different than abusing a pet, I think we
can all agree on that. I have gotten involved in animal abuse issues but that is not
what this thread is about.

It is about big game hunting and as I have said I will not judge another simply because
they are hunters. I have valid personal reasons, I have done so in my life
and been very wrong. You can not judge a heart by this alone and no one can know
another's motives nor what drives them individually.

i only need read your first few lines before replying. i try very hard to not ever ever use the word pet when refering to any of the animals i may have ever befriended and took into my home. they never ever were a pet of mine. i never ever were ever their master. not ever. that is the difference in you and i, pandora. i hope you think on that and let it roam around in your thoughts for awhile.

semantics Chad :? I'm the alpha dog not the master and for me pet+ me = love

I'd rather be with an animal !

chadwick

i'd rather be with an animal is fantastic until someone calls up ole uncle ted. i am curious if ole uncle ted kills snakes for entertainment purposes? this is my new quest for the day. somehow i gotta find out.

enjoy your day, pandora.

pandora

chadwick wrote:

i'd rather be with an animal is fantastic until someone calls up ole uncle ted. i am curious if ole uncle ted kills snakes for entertainment purposes? this is my new quest for the day. somehow i gotta find out.

enjoy your day, pandora.

you too chadwick

brianlux

Oops... I'm not here, you didn't see that...

gimmesometruth27

true or false. ted nugent illegally killed a bear and plead guilty for it.


from
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poaching



POACH:
verb (used without object)
1. to trespass, especially on another's game preserve, in order to steal animals or to hunt.
2. to take game or fish illegally.
3. (of land) to become broken up or slushy by being trampled.
4. (in tennis, squash, handball, etc.) to play a ball hit into the territory of one's partner that is properly the partner's ball to play.
5. Informal . to cheat in a game or contest.


we know he has done it at least once. by killing that second bear, be took it illegally. and he has copped to it. so he is an admitted poacher.

gimmesometruth27

here is another example from 2010. it is the first one that popped up in google search of "ted nugent and poaching"...this is the kind of sick heartless person we are talking about here...

Ted Nugent Caught Poaching on the Outdoor Channel

http://news.change.org/stories/ted-nuge ... or-channel

Ted Nugent, musician and hunting fanatic, was brought up on 11 charges of poaching, including baiting and killing a deer too young to be legally hunted. Ted Nugent pleaded no contest to the poaching charges and was fined $1,750 by the state of California.

Poaching is a serious crime against animals. Poachers shoot animals out of season or beyond legal limits. Poachers often use illegal methods of killing, and kill protected species.

Ironically, Ted Nugent was caught poaching because of his hunting television show, Spirit of the Wild on the Outdoor Channel. Apparently, game wardens saw Nugent kill an immature buck on a February episode of the show. An investigation was launched and California officials found that the immature deer had been eating bait called C’mere Deer. Baiting wildlife is illegal in California.

Nugent is a longserving board member of the National Rifle Association, referred to as "Uncle Ted" on the NRA website. The NRA says it "strongly supports every law-abiding American's privledge to hunt." The website also states that hunters are an important part of wildlife conservation and wildlife management.

As the President of the Humane Society of the United States pointed out, if the NRA is serious about abiding by a hunter's code of ethics, they should oust Nugent from their board for breaking the law.

Ted Nugent said earlier this year: “My name is Ted Nugent and because of Pam Anderson ... and because of Paul McCartney, all the members of PETA, whenever I hear the word animal or rights in the same paragraph, I’m killing an extra hundred of something this year. I have unlimited deer tags in Michigan and Texas, and I don’t even need to kill them really, but I’m going to. "

He continued on this tirade, using much more colorful language.

Ted Nugent has proven himself to be an enemy of wildlife. But Nugent wasn't alone when he baited and shot that young deer. He was followed by a television crew from the Outdoor Channel.

Outdoor Channel claims that they have "always understood the delicate balance between man, wildlife and the environment" and that the core values of the channel are "conservation, outreach, responsibility and education." Yet they have a show about a Nugent who says he aims "not just killing" but "slaughtering ... and "gut them and skin them, quarter them and butcher them." Oh dear.

gimmesometruth27

here is a petition to get nugent off of the air. i admit that i do not know when this was posted or if they even show his show on vh1 anymore, so i am guessing that this is a few years old. the quotes are cited to whatever source they came from. but i am putting this out here so people can read more about the monster that nugent is...

GET TED NUGENT OFF THE AIR
http://www.petitiononline.com/noabuse4/petition.html

This petition will be forwarded to VH1, to let them know that we will not give up until the barbaric, cruel and evil ignorant that is Ted Nugent, is taken off the air.

VH1 regularly airs the Ted Nugent show in which animals are brutally and callously slaughtered, all in the name of entertainment. In a time when we call ourselves civilised and intelligent beings, it is a travesty that such acts can be accepted.
Ted Nugent publicly boasts of his torture, slaughter, cruelty, and violation of animal life. He publicly takes sadistic pleasure in the extreme suffering of others. The world needs less people like this. For VH1 to show such horrific and barbaric scenes is unacceptable.

These are quotes from Ted Nugent himself:

"unethical," says Mr. Caires, who was angered after he took Nugent out on a hunt in April. "He shoots at anything," Mr. Cairnes claims. "You should kill what you can use. He just likes to kill a lot of animals." (Cairnes is a hunting guide who takes people out to stab wild pigs in Hawaii) - The Wall Street Journal , July 25, 1995, 'Why Sit on the Beach When You Could Stab a Wild Pig?

"... First thing I slayed...I was nine years old. It was a squirrel, these ladies were feeding it, you know, and I said, 'excuse me, bam.' No it wasn't a pet squirrel. I had it stuffed and petted it for years after that." - WRIF-FM, Detroit, Ted Nugent as guest D.J., September 26, 1991

Whacking is a term Nugent uses to describe what he does to his prey with bow and arrow. Whack 'em and stack 'em,' he says. - Detroit Free Press Magazine , July 15, 1990

Participants pay the Renegade Ranch (a fenced in, 300-acre canned hunting recreation area) for the animals they kill - anywhere from $500 for a wild boar to $5,500 for a six-point elk. Nugent tacks on a $250 fee for serving as celebrity guide. - Detroit Free Press Magazine , July 15, 1990

"I don't hunt for sport, I don't hunt for recreation, I don't hunt for meat, I hunt to hunt ..." - Detroit Free Press , p. 12D, April 17, 1989

Ted Nugent's Down to Earth, promises raw, unedited footage of America's no. 1 rock 'n' roll bowhunter as he whacks 'em and stacks 'em. Nor was it hyperbole. In the first 10 minutes, viewers got bird's-eye of broadheads fatally piercing such fearsome creatures as an armadillo, a squirrel perched in a tree, some pigs and a goat. 'I love that part,' said the glinty-eyed Nugent after running death scenes in sequence. 'Let's see it again.' And the appalling whack 'em and stack 'em compendium ran all over in slow-motion replay. - The Washington Post , Recreation Section, September 23, 1990

Nobody hunts just to put meat on the table because it's too expensive, time consuming and extremely inconsistent. - Ted Nugent's World Bowhunters Magazine , Volume 1/ Number 3, March/April 1990, p.7

"On my first bowhunt on the property a few years back, I was on my own for twenty-two days and killed an amazing thirty-three head of big game. I'm surprised I even came home. I was in heaven." - Ted Nugent's World Bowhunters Magazine , Volume 1/ Number 3, March/April 1990, p.15

"... My deer were put here on the earth. God even said, 'Hey Ted, whack 'em.' He said this, right in the bible, Genesis, 'Dear Ted, whack me a buck ...'" - WRIF-FM, Detroit, Ted Nugent as guest D.J., Sept. 24, 1991

"I contribute to the dead of winter and the moans of silence, blood trails are music to my ears ... I'm a gut pile addict ... The pig didn't know I was there ... it's my kick ... I love shafting animals ... it's rock 'n' roll power." - Ted Nugent's World Bowhunters Magazine , Volume 1/Number 4, May 1990, p.12

ON SKULL PAINTING

"The first thing I do is be sure to cut the entire head off the animal I wish to bleach and/or paint Most butchers saw the skull plate off at the base of the antlers, thus eliminating the major skull section that we desire. Since I butcher most of my own deer and big game, I take special pride in the personal handling of all the precious by-products of my kills. I cut the head off at the base of the skull and begin the meticulous task of skinning and fleshing the entire skull down to the minimal meat and bare bone. I will actually scrape the remaining flesh from the skull bone with the edge of my knife blade, but stop short of taking any actual skull material. ... Hunt on. Kill on. Eat on. Paint on. Live on."


We need to let VH1 know that we will not tolerate such evil, and that we do not wish them to allow Ted Nugent to brainwash our children with his Neanderthal-like primitive sadism.

JonnyPistachio

Ted Nugent might be the only person who could've made Bob Ross fly off the handle.

redrock

But gimme, didn't you know that under all of this.......

pandora wrote:

...Ted respects animals, life and the hunt as many other hunters do.

I think it's obvious what kind of 'hunter' and person Nugent is. How anyone can make excuses for this poor example of a man is beyond me. He is an insult to true hunters.

Godfather.

you guy's are killin me you just can't get enough of Uncle Teddy


Godfather.