God... Christ... The Bible
Comments
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Pepe Silvia wrote:
what if the child rapist is never caught but repents on his death bed?
You reap what you sow. God is just. Not many people get a chance to do that anyway.0 -
I could try and refute every little rebuttal and it wont make people believe. Only Gods advances can be accepted or denied. I'll leave you with scripture.
Romans 3:23 "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death and suffering, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."
Romans 5:8 "but God proves His love for us by Christ's dying for us sinners when we are still sinners."
Romans 10:9 "That if you confess with your lips that the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:13"for everyone who calls on the Lord's name will be saved."
Peace, love and hope be with you.0 -
EddieLedBetter wrote:I could try and refute every little rebuttal and it wont make people believe. Only Gods advances can be accepted or denied. I'll leave you with scripture.
Romans 3:23 "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death and suffering, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."
Romans 5:8 "but God proves His love for us by Christ's dying for us sinners when we are still sinners."
Romans 10:9 "That if you confess with your lips that the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:13"for everyone who calls on the Lord's name will be saved."
Peace, love and hope be with you.
maybe you are taking this too literal?
peacedon't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
The thing I don't get is this... God is just... yet, He will forsake you because you question Him and the religions and do not accept on basic premise... to follow the doctrine of the Christian Church and accept Jesus Christ as you personal savior as the only way to God.
If this is the case...
Jews... you're fucked. No matter what great things you do... no matter how kind and generous... caring and forgiving... loving and joyful you are... you are FUCKED when you die and have not gone Christian. And you know the irony... YOU are the Chosen People... you are God's Children... yet, He forsakes you because there was this new contract that nullifies the old contract you had with Him.
Sorry... but, you know... it's just business.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
...EddieLedBetter wrote:How do you get that out of what I'm saying? He didnt create evil. It already exists, not by his creation, and he is an all powerful parent that wants to nurture you and make you learn from our own sinful nature by showing us what the world is like when we are in charge. So when your dog pisses all over your house you dont disciplen them. Man I dont want to come to your house either. Equate that to God and his house.
I'm not choosing which are wrong or right, merely stating that there are some who have it wrong and lead others astray because of the way they live their lives. Judging and pointing out others faults when they dont see their own faults in that. I know from experience, these are the types of people that pushed me away from God. I only stated this to warn of these people so you dont base your judgement of God soley on them which is what a lot of people do.
Back to your dog. In order for your dog not to piss and shit all over your house you just let him continue to do it I'm guessing. Your kid steals something from a store and you just turn your head because he doesnt need to be punished to learn that he cant steal. Do you hear how rediculous that sounds? "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
Miracles like a man walking on water. Rasing the dead. The 7 plagues of Moses. Casting out demons. God didnt want man in the natural world where that goose would fly into the engine. He wanted us in the security of the garden but he also wanted us to decide if we wanted to be there with him. Just like he now wants you to decide if you want to be born again in spirit for all eternity when you part. You think the world has beauty in it. Look at the heavens. What do you think those other galaxies and creations are? Satan is the ruler of this world if you are pissed about the way it is take it up with him.
Again... with the dog thing. I hope you know that learning (as in lessons) and discipline are two different things... right? My CATS... use a cat box. I didn't 'teach' them to use it... somehow, cats... even when little kittens... know that sand box means toilet. And yeah, sometimes they puke on the floor... but, I'm not going to punish them for it. I know that I don't go around puking for no reason... it's because i'm sick. Same thing with the cats. I'm not going to punish them because they are sick.
Oh... and by the way... this little gem of yours, "So when your dog pisses all over your house you dont disciplen them. Man I dont want to come to your house either."...
I was waiting for your Christian defensive nastiness to surface. It almost always does... except with two people I know i can have a descent conversation about belief, religion and God without them tossing out bullshit, petty comments.
...
Back to the dogs... you may punish your animals and children in order to 'teach' them... ME? not so much.
First of... i would never have a dog unless I had a yard where he can be a dog. I don't have a yard, i have a patio.. so, no dog... cats instead. So, my dog would not be shitting and pissing all over my house because he would live outside... in a magnificent dog house I built for him.
As for children. You are supposed to TEACH your children that stealing is a CRIME, not a moral choice. When your kid steals... it is a crime. The difference is teaching that stealing is wrong does not need to involve punishment or suffering. The ACT of stealing, when knowing that stealing is wrong is what deserves punishment.
...
Bottom line... you will punish your dog for performing a bodily function that is necessary for him to sustain his life in places where YOU don't want him to... because YOU don't take him for a walk and leave him locked up is the places you don't want him to piss and shit. And that is how you see God operating.
You claim that good people suffer because God wants to teach them a lesson. That's called, 'fucking with us'... just like he did with Job.
Me... since I don't have the proper environment to have a dog... i don't have a dog. If I had a nice big yard with some grass and plenty of running room... i'd have a dog. I wouldn't have you 'Teach Him A Lesson' when he craps in the living room... because I wouldn't let him in the living room. I would let him be a dog.
As for my cats... I provide them with a couple of litter boxes and they use it... unless I fail to chang it out and it gets to the point where it is too disgusting for a cat to piss in... and they piss on on the junk mail pile in the corner. I DON'T punish them because it was MY fault for not changing the litter. Now... if I could teach them to clean their own cat boxes... that would be great. But, i can't... mostly because they are cats.
That's how I see God. He doesn't punish me or make me to suffer in order to teach me. If I live an honest live He accepts me... knowing that I'm imperfect and flawed. I do not have to follow a prescribed way to Him... I don't have to join the ranks along the Interstate 1-Way. I can find my way to God on this dirt path that runs along the beach... by myself.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
EddieLedBetter wrote:I could try and refute every little rebuttal and it wont make people believe. Only Gods advances can be accepted or denied.
I thought you said that wasn't your purpose in this discussion, to "make people believe"? In my opinion, only logic can be accepted as truth. God is illogical.Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
you know, people often yell out "God!" and "Christ!" when they stub their toe or fuck something up, but never "The Bible!" I'm going to start shouting out "The Bible!" - actually, I like "Holy Bible!" better.
"Holy Bible, that hurts!!!"0 -
EddieLedBetter wrote:Johnny Sitar wrote:FiveB247x wrote:If we are to believe that god is some being or figure of creation, and created the world and everything in it, where did god come from? Seems like a rather arbitrary question, yet very overlooked. Any answer?
there is no answer. it's the same old bs. I once asked this of the mother of a friend of mine, and it's the same old song and dance:
"where did god come from?"
"he's always been there"
"but when did he get there?"
"he's always been there"
"but you have to arrive at some point in time"
"he's always been there"
It's like she was programmed, and she actually believed what she was saying, without realizing how illogical it is. The answer always comes back to "you will find the answer in christ". No you won't. There is no answer.
At least scientists admit they can't explain where the universe started, what it's contained in, etc. It boggles the mind, and we can admit that. I have never met a christian like this guy who can admit that it's possible it doesn't exist. It's ridiculous.
Not as impossible as saying a wooden pencil just magically evolved into a mechanical one without something interveining and changing it, creating it for that matter. Or as impossible as something just coming from nothing like in the Big Bang? Or as impossible as light not being able to escape the forces of a black hole or dark matter's existance. Wanting Gods knowlege of these are things are what got us in this mess of death and suffering to begin with. We traded paradise and the presence of God for suffering and death because we wanted to know.
Haha even I can laugh at the Left Behind series. I dont believe in scaring people into believing in God. I believe you should already have fear of God because he is a greater being that has the power to do anything. Fear is respect.
as I stated before, the big bang is NOT something coming from nothing. it's an ultra-tiny SOMETHING expanding exponentially. There's a difference.
and those other things are hard to imagine, but forces of nature and the universe are something that I can grasp a helluva a lot easier than some dude being our puppetmaster for his own personal enjoyment, telling me he loves me but for him to accept me I have to bow down to his whim and accept his existence and superiority over me?
god is pretty insecure if you ask me. god needs counselling.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
Kenny Olav wrote:you know, people often yell out "God!" and "Christ!" when they stub their toe or fuck something up, but never "The Bible!" I'm going to start shouting out "The Bible!" - actually, I like "Holy Bible!" better.
"Holy Bible, that hurts!!!"
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
and just for the record, I checked, and Satan is not in my ear. Unless it was actually satan, but in earwax form. I conquered Satan with a q-tip!!Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
Johnny Sitar wrote:god is pretty insecure if you ask me. god needs counselling.
Buddha?? who the fuck is Buddha, it's God, bitch!!! :twisted:
i have a hard time with the concept that God is love unless you call him the wrong name. he seems like a pretty big dick to cast someone to hell to burn for all eternity if they call him the wrong name no matter how good that person is.
and what about kids? say a 2 year old is murdered. this 2 year old obviously never had a chance to even contemplate accepting Jesus as the 'only true path', so do they go to hell? purgatory? wouldn't God have known that kid would be murdered before they were conceived? what's the point? some divine plan, right? don't question but God had a reason for it yadda yadda yadda.don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
Cosmo wrote:Back to the dogs... you may punish your animals and children in order to 'teach' them... ME? not so much.
First of... i would never have a dog unless I had a yard where he can be a dog. I don't have a yard, i have a patio.. so, no dog... cats instead. So, my dog would not be shitting and pissing all over my house because he would live outside... in a magnificent dog house I built for him.
As for children. You are supposed to TEACH your children that stealing is a CRIME, not a moral choice. When your kid steals... it is a crime. The difference is teaching that stealing is wrong does not need to involve punishment or suffering. The ACT of stealing, when knowing that stealing is wrong is what deserves punishment.
...
Bottom line... you will punish your dog for performing a bodily function that is necessary for him to sustain his life in places where YOU don't want him to... because YOU don't take him for a walk and leave him locked up is the places you don't want him to piss and shit. And that is how you see God operating.
You claim that good people suffer because God wants to teach them a lesson. That's called, 'fucking with us'... just like he did with Job.
Me... since I don't have the proper environment to have a dog... i don't have a dog. If I had a nice big yard with some grass and plenty of running room... i'd have a dog. I wouldn't have you 'Teach Him A Lesson' when he craps in the living room... because I wouldn't let him in the living room. I would let him be a dog.
As for my cats... I provide them with a couple of litter boxes and they use it... unless I fail to chang it out and it gets to the point where it is too disgusting for a cat to piss in... and they piss on on the junk mail pile in the corner. I DON'T punish them because it was MY fault for not changing the litter. Now... if I could teach them to clean their own cat boxes... that would be great. But, i can't... mostly because they are cats.
That's how I see God. He doesn't punish me or make me to suffer in order to teach me. If I live an honest live He accepts me... knowing that I'm imperfect and flawed. I do not have to follow a prescribed way to Him... I don't have to join the ranks along the Interstate 1-Way. I can find my way to God on this dirt path that runs along the beach... by myself.
These are some very good points! I appologize for the remark that offended you as well. Like I said I dont know everything I'm only arguing from my subjective experience and the lessons I"ve learned.0 -
Johnny Sitar wrote:and just for the record, I checked, and Satan is not in my ear. Unless it was actually satan, but in earwax form. I conquered Satan with a q-tip!!
http://i.sme.sk/cdata/2/43/4345912/sata ... y-r289.jpg
watch out, Crosby, you have Satan in your ear!!!Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
How can we develop courage without experiencing danger?
How can we develop perseverance without obstacles?
How can we develop compassion without experiencing suffering?
How can we develop patience without tribulation
How can we develop character without adversity
How can we develop faith if we have no need for it?
The existance of evil brings forth greater good. The evil we've brought on ourselves God has to allow to play out.
"Evil is God's megaphone to arouse a deaf world." -C.S.Lewis0 -
EddieLedBetter wrote:"Evil is God's megaphone to arouse a deaf world." -C.S.Lewis
so evil is a tool of God??don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
Cosmo wrote:I also learned that 'Some Christians' get to choose which Christians are 'Real Christians'. That most Christians don't get it... and they won't get to know the truth. only the ones that see life through their own eyes seem to be able to tell.
**
Truer words...........So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me0 -
I think any reasonable religious person would have to admit, even if at best case scenario the below is true:
1 - God is an absentee landlord
2 - God didn't do a very thorough job
In regards to 1, if we are to believe there is a god and he created all the universe and everything within it (people, animals, miracles, laws, etc), then we must wonder what is the point? Is it really to challenge us and not control free will? Or to give free will in wait of punishment? At best, seems very spiteful. According to religious texts (bible, koran, etc), gods rules and punishments seem outdated, sexist and vengeful. Seems to me this part is more of a sign of the times when it was written (by people), compared to ordained by god or a creator/being.
In regards to 2, if we are to believe there is a god and he created all the universe and everything within it (people, animal, miracles, laws, etc), then we must wonder what kind of judgement this god has. Are we to believe he merely watches, listens and acknowledges all that goes on in the world, but at the same time sits on his hands, or unjustly punishes innocents to make a point or test their faith? Are we to believe that god doesn't like women or minorities and that's why over the course of history they've been tested more than some others? Doesn't seem very logical that different groups of people have different levels of testing of faith and resolve, all to end up in the same two places (heaven/hell). Seems to me that that these glaring ommisions seem to be more a sign of the times and practices of when these religious texts and beliefs came to be compared to some life altering intervention which is known as a doctrine of kindness, fairness and a path to the afterlife.CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
FiveB247x wrote:I think any reasonable religious person would have to admit, even if at best case scenario the below is true:
1 - God is an absentee landlord
2 - God didn't do a very thorough job
In regards to 1, if we are to believe there is a god and he created all the universe and everything within it (people, animals, miracles, laws, etc), then we must wonder what is the point? Is it really to challenge us and not control free will? Or to give free will in wait of punishment? At best, seems very spiteful. According to religious texts (bible, koran, etc), gods rules and punishments seem outdated, sexist and vengeful. Seems to me this part is more of a sign of the times when it was written (by people), compared to ordained by god or a creator/being.
In regards to 2, if we are to believe there is a god and he created all the universe and everything within it (people, animal, miracles, laws, etc), then we must wonder what kind of judgement this god has. Are we to believe he merely watches, listens and acknowledges all that goes on in the world, but at the same time sits on his hands, or unjustly punishes innocents to make a point or test their faith? Are we to believe that god doesn't like women or minorities and that's why over the course of history they've been tested more than some others? Doesn't seem very logical that different groups of people have different levels of testing of faith and resolve, all to end up in the same two places (heaven/hell). Seems to me that that these glaring ommisions seem to be more a sign of the times and practices of when these religious texts and beliefs came to be compared to some life altering intervention which is known as a doctrine of kindness, fairness and a path to the afterlife.
excellently put.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
EddieLedBetter wrote:How can we develop courage without experiencing danger?
How can we develop perseverance without obstacles?
How can we develop compassion without experiencing suffering?
How can we develop patience without tribulation
How can we develop character without adversity
How can we develop faith if we have no need for it?
The existance of evil brings forth greater good. The evil we've brought on ourselves God has to allow to play out.
"Evil is God's megaphone to arouse a deaf world." -C.S.Lewis
life situations are not evil. it's just life. random circumstance. if you believe life itself is inherently evil, well then, we might have another discussion on our hands.
"God has to allow....". God, if he is all-knowing/controlling/whathaveyou, he doesn't HAVE to do anything. Life is beautiful, but the existence of tragedy and injustice in the world is proof enough to me that there is no god. If we're all so bad, what's stopping him from dealing us the next great flood, whatever it might be this time? Cause we surely must be worse than man was back in Noah's time. What with homosexuality and all that stuff the church thinks is evil and unnatural.Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140
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