God... Christ... The Bible

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EddieLedBetter wrote:

He's not going to just give you what you don't deserve.

now we're getting to the heart of the matter. you somehow believe that you are better than others and you deserve something and they don't.

how very un-christian. this is what bothers me. most christians have no freaking clue what Christ was even about.

I believe he existed. I believe he had a message. I don't care where he believed he got his message from. that's irrelevant. The message was pure. He, in my opinion, would be ashamed of most christians in this age. he never judged. Most of you, however, can't say the same.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EddieLedBetter wrote:

dying for a cause speaking soley of Jesus an the apostles who were crucifiied and beheaded in such. Seemed like a certian father of lies was doing his best to snuff out christianity

ok, yes, in that instance, I think that Jesus was a great man (or the best con-artist the world has ever seen, either way, kudos to you, JC!).

when I read "dying for a cause", my back went up against the wall. When I read that sentence these days, I generally think of the word extremist.

EddieLedBetter

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

He's not going to just give you what you don't deserve.

now we're getting to the heart of the matter. you somehow believe that you are better than others and you deserve something and they don't.

how very un-christian. this is what bothers me. most christians have no freaking clue what Christ was even about.

I believe he existed. I believe he had a message. I don't care where he believed he got his message from. that's irrelevant. The message was pure. He, in my opinion, would be ashamed of most christians in this age. he never judged. Most of you, however, can't say the same.

not what I ment at all in "you" I ment the perverbial we, you I. We don't deserve to be in his presence because of our sinful nature.

EddieLedBetter

He created perfect beings... We became imperfect when we chose to sin. In a loving way I ask that you'd please just seek the full teachings of Christ before you decide to disbeleive them

BinFrog

EddieLedBetter wrote:

He created perfect beings... We became imperfect when we chose to sin. In a loving way I ask that you'd please just seek the full teachings of Christ before you decide to disbeleive them

I didn't choose anything. Period.

A guy who ate an apple in a garden, in a fictional story nonetheless, did not doom humanity to a life of pain and suffering.

EddieLedBetter

BinFrog wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

He created perfect beings... We became imperfect when we chose to sin. In a loving way I ask that you'd please just seek the full teachings of Christ before you decide to disbeleive them

I didn't choose anything. Period.

A guy who ate an apple in a garden, in a fictional story nonetheless, did not doom humaity to a life of pain and suffering.

True you didnt choose. You were born into it as your nature. Pretty powerful fiction if you ask me. As a child you couldn't choose not to be jealous when another child took your toy, you just were.

EddieLedBetter

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

dying for a cause speaking soley of Jesus an the apostles who were crucifiied and beheaded in such. Seemed like a certian father of lies was doing his best to snuff out christianity

ok, yes, in that instance, I think that Jesus was a great man (or the best con-artist the world has ever seen, either way, kudos to you, JC!).

when I read "dying for a cause", my back went up against the wall. When I read that sentence these days, I generally think of the word extremist.

No man could endure that pain without breaking or admitting to lying... unless of course that man was part God who stepped down from his perfect thrown to endure pain and suffering because he loved his creation.

Gern Blansten

EddieLedBetter wrote:

No man could endure that pain without breaking or admitting to lying... unless of course that man was part God who stepped down from his perfect thrown to endure pain and suffering because he loved his creation.

ridiculous....he's god...waves his big god hand and everything is perfect

no suffering, no Jesus in his underwear on the cross

markin ball

Gern Blansten wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

No man could endure that pain without breaking or admitting to lying... unless of course that man was part God who stepped down from his perfect thrown to endure pain and suffering because he loved his creation.

ridiculous....he's god...waves his big god hand and everything is perfect

no suffering, no Jesus in his underwear on the cross

Good band name!

FiveB247x

If we are to believe that god is some being or figure of creation, and created the world and everything in it, where did god come from? Seems like a rather arbitrary question, yet very overlooked. Any answer?

markin ball

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Why is it so unbelievable?

It's not unbelievable but it is unprovable, illogical and contradictory to reason at just about every level. There is no way to get to "God exists" without stepping over logic or making an exception somewhere. So, believe anything you want but just stop trying to rationalize it.

BinFrog

EddieLedBetter wrote:

True you didnt choose. You were born into it as your nature. Pretty powerful fiction if you ask me. As a child you couldn't choose not to be jealous when another child took your toy, you just were.

No offense, but this is a pretty weak argument. I can't help being jealous as a kid when another kid steals my toy because jealousy is human nature. Thinking that a single human being thousands of years ago ate an apple that a snake baited him into eating, which in turn doomed the rest of humanity until the end of time into an existence of sin and repentance. I am simply astounded that anyone would actually still believe this. It seems so obviously fictitious and archaic.

Any “God” that would be so evil as to surround his precious being with temptations and then not let the creature indulge in them is not a God I want to meet in the afterlife anyway. What an absolutely cruel concept. Add to that the fact that I want no part in a God that would only allow certain believers in and not others, and yet let them make up their owns minds in the hopes that they are right because there is no true way to know.

Life is freewill. Freewill has no omnipresent deity. It can’t happen.

Cosmo

Well... from reading through this, i have learned several things:
God likes to fuck with us. I mean, He created us to bring joy to Him... like we are nothing more than pets to Him. Don't get me wrong, I love my pets... nothing wrong with love. But, i don't expcet them to love me back and punish them if they don't. That would make me... well, kind of an asshole if I did that, doncha think?
I also learned that 'Some Christians' get to choose which Christians are 'Real Christians'. That most Christians don't get it... and they won't get to know the truth. only the ones that see life through their own eyes seem to be able to tell.
Another thing I learned... in order to learn... we have to be punished... or go through suffering. i don't know about that... last time I remember.... learning was difficult, but it did not involve lashes of the whip or the suffering pain of losing a loved one to heart failure. Yet, God doles these thing out on a regular basis because He want to teach us. In fact, if you close your eyes and concentrate... you may hear God utter the words, "I am going to teach you a lesson"... then, gives us cancer of the dick.
And miracles. What fucking miracles? Miracles like Capt. Sullivan landing that jet in the Hudson? If God didn't shove that goose into the port engine... there wouldn't have been a need for that landing. And even when He did... give Capt. Sullivan some credit. His lifelong experience in flying... the thousands of flight hours under his belt, the trainning he recieves on a continual basis for all sorts of scenarios, his knowledge of the flight characteristics of the airliner and his knowledge of georgaphy all may have been the contributing factors. Miracle? Nope. Science, knowledge, logic.
Then there's Usama Bin Laden. Evil. But, according to who? Of course he is evil... he is not one of us. But try to think of it from the other side of the gun. He could be portrayed as their David to our Goliath, couldn't he. If the Bible was still open to be written to... how would those authors portray us? All depends on whether the authors are on their side or our, right? The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?
**
NOTE TO ASSHOLES: I am NOT endorsing, commending or sympathetic to Usama Bin Laden, al qeada or The Taliban. I am just trying to make a point that there are always two sides to a story... listening to only one side will NOT get you to the Truth. So, in a pre-emptive move I am saying, "Fuck you and put your head up your ass" if you are going to try that Usama lover busllshit on me.
**
Finally... the truth. I have found that anyone who claims to know the truth (other than those truths found in places, such as mathematics) is either ignorant... or a liar. They may believe they know the truth... but, they don't. Theirs is a relative truth, not the one and only absolute truth.
...
Well, here's a relative truth... my relative truth. I believe religion in not a conduit between me and God... it is a barrier between us. A barrier that is built with doctrinre and dogma of 1400 years of political power grabs within the corridors of power. I prescribe to no religion because no religion believes in me. i'm on my own out here... but, you know... i'm doing just fine.

markin ball

EddieLedBetter wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

In one hand you ask why someone is only critical of Christianity, yet follow your comment with a comment warranting that kind of response. There's been thousands of religions throughout the history of the world, and if a persons' stance is to believe theirs' is the right way and everyone has that decision to make and think on their own, so be it and leave it at that, but don't be so brazen to say yours is a proven, more right or somehow the only way. For me personally, this is why I hate religion, because it is not kept to thy-self, it's spoken as fact or knowledge when it is nothing of the sort. I can believe pink unicorns walk the earth today and say I wholeheartedly belive this and anyone who doesn't is wrong. If you disagree, you can't 100% disprove my statement, but we both know from science, fact and knowledge, that it is in fact untrue. And that's religion compared to science. I can't sit here and say 100% that a god/creator doesn't exist although we have plenty of fact and science to disprove that one does.. perhaps it's close to proven, but not 100%. But you can't prove any percent that your particular religion or thought is fact other than that it is what you believe things to be.

What about Muslims, Hindus and so on? What about about what they teach? Can you stand them?
Some people have no problem bashing Christians or denying Jesus, it's a shame. I feel sorry for you.


There is only one way and thats throught Jesus.

[/quote]

That factual science is the same as the factual science that believed the world to be flat or that everything revolved around the earth. Its only what man has been so lucky enough to prove up to this point. One puting their faith in that is just as silly as me putting my faith in the intangible. Thousands of years from now if God came down and said I am the way the the truth and life in human form, again for that matter, people would still not be able to believe. The truth is what we cant see and cant prove.[/quote]

There is no 100% factual science. There are just leading theories of the time such as "the earth is flat" or the "big bang theory". These, and all theories can be thrown out or modified when better ideas or testable information comes along or is discovered. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers pinned down for all time. It is the search for answers based on evidence and all hypotheses, theories and experiments should be open to ultimate scrutiny and criticism. A real scientist should welcome this criticism and be the head criticizer of his own work.

EddieLedBetter

BinFrog wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

True you didnt choose. You were born into it as your nature. Pretty powerful fiction if you ask me. As a child you couldn't choose not to be jealous when another child took your toy, you just were.

No offense, but this is a pretty weak argument. I can't help being jealous as a kid when another kid steals my toy because jealousy is human nature. Thinking that a single human being thousands of years ago ate an apple that a snake baited him into eating, which in turn doomed the rest of humanity until the end of time into an existence of sin and repentance. I am simply astounded that anyone would actually still believe this. It seems so obviously fictitious and archaic.

Any “God” that would be so evil as to surround his precious being with temptations and then not let the creature indulge in them is not a God I want to meet in the afterlife anyway. What an absolutely cruel concept. Add to that the fact that I want no part in a God that would only allow certain believers in and not others, and yet let them make up their owns minds in the hopes that they are right because there is no true way to know.

Life is freewill. Freewill has no omnipresent deity. It can’t happen.

You know maybe that wasnt the way it went down. Maybe it was put in that perspective because our weak lower being human minds cant even begin to grasp the vastness of God. Thats not for me to decided. It wasnt one mans fault it was all men. We are all the same in nature. Sinful. Maybe your sin isnt as bad as Osama but you still are sinful and cant help being sinful at times.

Again God didnt create evil. It existed along side God. The balance, the ying and yang. Thats why there was the barrier of protection in "the Garden". Dinosaurs, earthquakes, tornados, cancer death and destruction plagued the world around them but God loved his NEW creation. All those other things existed long before man came correct? He gave man free will. The snake represents temptation and free will. The tree of life is the knowlage of this evil that God didnt want us to have. Like LSD is opening doors to things humans arent supposed to know because it blows our weak little human minds.

EddieLedBetter

Cosmo wrote:

Well... from reading through this, i have learned several things:
God likes to fuck with us. I mean, He created us to bring joy to Him... like we are nothing more than pets to Him. Don't get me wrong, I love my pets... nothing wrong with love. But, i don't expcet them to love me back and punish them if they don't. That would make me... well, kind of an asshole if I did that, doncha think?

How do you get that out of what I'm saying? He didnt create evil. It already exists, not by his creation, and he is an all powerful parent that wants to nurture you and make you learn from our own sinful nature by showing us what the world is like when we are in charge. So when your dog pisses all over your house you dont disciplen them. Man I dont want to come to your house either. Equate that to God and his house.

I also learned that 'Some Christians' get to choose which Christians are 'Real Christians'. That most Christians don't get it... and they won't get to know the truth. only the ones that see life through their own eyes seem to be able to tell.

I'm not choosing which are wrong or right, merely stating that there are some who have it wrong and lead others astray because of the way they live their lives. Judging and pointing out others faults when they dont see their own faults in that. I know from experience, these are the types of people that pushed me away from God. I only stated this to warn of these people so you dont base your judgement of God soley on them which is what a lot of people do.

Another thing I learned... in order to learn... we have to be punished... or go through suffering. i don't know about that... last time I remember.... learning was difficult, but it did not involve lashes of the whip or the suffering pain of losing a loved one to heart failure. Yet, God doles these thing out on a regular basis because He want to teach us. In fact, if you close your eyes and concentrate... you may hear God utter the words, "I am going to teach you a lesson"... then, gives us cancer of the dick.

Back to your dog. In order for your dog not to piss and shit all over your house you just let him continue to do it I'm guessing. Your kid steals something from a store and you just turn your head because he doesnt need to be punished to learn that he cant steal. Do you hear how rediculous that sounds? "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

And miracles. What fucking miracles? Miracles like Capt. Sullivan landing that jet in the Hudson? If God didn't shove that goose into the port engine... there wouldn't have been a need for that landing. And even when He did... give Capt. Sullivan some credit. His lifelong experience in flying... the thousands of flight hours under his belt, the trainning he recieves on a continual basis for all sorts of scenarios, his knowledge of the flight characteristics of the airliner and his knowledge of georgaphy all may have been the contributing factors. Miracle? Nope. Science, knowledge, logic.

Miracles like a man walking on water. Rasing the dead. The 7 plagues of Moses. Casting out demons. God didnt want man in the natural world where that goose would fly into the engine. He wanted us in the security of the garden but he also wanted us to decide if we wanted to be there with him. Just like he now wants you to decide if you want to be born again in spirit for all eternity when you part. You think the world has beauty in it. Look at the heavens. What do you think those other galaxies and creations are? Satan is the ruler of this world if you are pissed about the way it is take it up with him.

EddieLedBetter

Then there's Usama Bin Laden. Evil. But, according to who? Of course he is evil... he is not one of us. But try to think of it from the other side of the gun. He could be portrayed as their David to our Goliath, couldn't he. If the Bible was still open to be written to... how would those authors portray us? All depends on whether the authors are on their side or our, right? The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?

**

If you knew the teachings of Jesus you would know that HE is the only way to the Father. By accepting him. So the god that Osama follows is Satan. A tool of satan used to tempt people away from god. Into believing the lie just as he did when he tempted us humans into believing that we should know about this knowlege that god posseses in the tree of knowlage.

Finally... the truth. I have found that anyone who claims to know the truth (other than those truths found in places, such as mathematics) is either ignorant... or a liar. They may believe they know the truth... but, they don't. Theirs is a relative truth, not the one and only absolute truth.
...
Well, here's a relative truth... my relative truth. I believe religion in not a conduit between me and God... it is a barrier between us. A barrier that is built with doctrinre and dogma of 1400 years of political power grabs within the corridors of power. I prescribe to no religion because no religion believes in me. i'm on my own out here... but, you know... i'm doing just fine

This world will fade and pass, god never does. He is outside of time because time is a human invention. Thats why he knows what happened and will happen and can play off it. The thing he cant and wont do is make you believe and follow him. Its only up to you. So your truth is fading. It will fade with the swipe of a finger and the falling of an asteriod. Religion isnt a conduit. Jesus is. Man named the follow of Christ a religion. Man is a failure weak being compared to eternity and the vastness of the universe. So by you're belief we are a speck of dust stuck to a rock floating through space/time. You arent doing just fine. Happieness fades and there is only suffering for you forever if you fail to recognize God. Thats all he wants. A little freaking acknowlagement every once and a while for giving you this life.

EddieLedBetter

The same could be said for Hitler (a devout Catholic) who believed he was carrying out God's will by ridding the whole of Europe of the 'Jewish scourge'. and according to Christian belief... if he accepted Jesus as his personal savior and asked forgivness for his sins... he (Hitler) is in Heaven... while the 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs, russians, non-aryan that were murdered by his policies are cast into the lake of fire. How does that work?

Hitler wasnt a devout catholic he was a devout meth head. You and I have no idea why that happened we cant. Its just as unexplainable as the beginning of the universe. It does remind me of, in Exodus, the Jews wondering through the desert for 40 years suffering after Moses extracted them from Pharaohs grips. They were made to wander and suffer all those years because they still failed to acknowlage Gods work in their lives and they couldnt yet receive the promised land because they werent ready. What happened when they began to except the law? They ransacked all of the most protected cities at the time in Israel and received Gods promise. Do the Jews still not acknowlage Jesus as the one true saviour? Thats just speculation on my part so dont take my word for it.

We suffer here a little while. A blink compared to eternity. If you heed Gods laws and accept Christs sacrifice you too can receive Gods promised land and no longer be under the power of Satan and sin.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

dying for a cause speaking soley of Jesus an the apostles who were crucifiied and beheaded in such. Seemed like a certian father of lies was doing his best to snuff out christianity

ok, yes, in that instance, I think that Jesus was a great man (or the best con-artist the world has ever seen, either way, kudos to you, JC!).

when I read "dying for a cause", my back went up against the wall. When I read that sentence these days, I generally think of the word extremist.

No man could endure that pain without breaking or admitting to lying... unless of course that man was part God who stepped down from his perfect thrown to endure pain and suffering because he loved his creation.

um, I'm pretty sure there have been several people over the years that have stayed silent in order to further their cause, no matter what the pain. Many have suffered more than Jesus could have ever dreamed. He was on the cross 3 paltry days. People have been tortured without mercy for decades.

The crucifixion was a cakewalk.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Miracles like a man walking on water. Rasing the dead. The 7 plagues of Moses. Casting out demons. God didnt want man in the natural world where that goose would fly into the engine. He wanted us in the security of the garden but he also wanted us to decide if we wanted to be there with him. Just like he now wants you to decide if you want to be born again in spirit for all eternity when you part. You think the world has beauty in it. Look at the heavens. What do you think those other galaxies and creations are? Satan is the ruler of this world if you are pissed about the way it is take it up with him.

you speak of these events like you saw them with your own eyes. you admit in other posts that people take the bible too literally. is it not possible that all of the above are also metaphors for something explainable, something not so miraculous?