God... Christ... The Bible

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  • skippybrew
    skippybrew Posts: 283
    BinFrog wrote:
    skippybrew wrote:
    The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.

    To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?

    ...I don't think that's opposite, it's just another way of making the same connection. :) But the OP seems to believe in the bible so I used that angle.
  • melodious
    melodious Posts: 1,719
    I need all the God I can get...signing on!!!
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
  • EddieLedBetter
    EddieLedBetter Posts: 360
    edited January 2010
    CJMST3K wrote:
    To play devil's advocate...
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    Santa Claus and the tooth fairy never were publicly convicted, tortured or put to death. Not a good enough argument.

    Fair enough for that tooth-fairy comment made earlier. What about people who celebrate Muhammad? Why is Jesus the "real" god? Why isn't Buddah the real god? Or Muhammad? or so on...

    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    Why would one wish to make this story up and have it passed down through the ages?

    Because it's a scary thought that when we die, that is it. A very good motive, if you ask me. Religion is also about human culture, and in human culture there is peer pressure. If a person grew up going to (insert house of worship here), then they would probably end up bringing their children there. Hence why you see certain religions more in certain areas. ...or the god they worship only exists in that region.

    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    What would be the purpose of that if there wasnt some truth?

    see above...
    ...and what do you define as "some truth". Are you talking verifiable truth, with physical evidence, or some other truth which cannot be proved? If the latter, then would a neutral third-party call it the "truth"?[/quote]

    One could argue that Buddah, Joeseph Smith, or Muhammad never performed miracles or claimed to step down from their thrown as king of all and be tortured and put to death for all mankind. Is it strange that the 2 other major religions mention Jesus and the Flood of Noah?

    True that people can be influenced into believing by their upbringing but once reaching an age of self awareness everyone is given the choice what to believe. That was the case with me. I was raised learing these teachings then when I became old enough to test theories for myself I ventured away Ultimately returning to what I now know to be true. A lot of people actually experience God, Christ and the Bible by emmersing themselves in it. I dont think the people who wrote or passed down the stories of the Bible would have given up their lives if not for something they truely believed.

    Science is one finger on the hand of understanding. I believe it is a good thing but its only as true as what technology currently allows to be proven. They once knew they world was flat.

    The truth I'm speaking of is that a man came to earth performed miracles in the name of His Father then was ultimately crucified bridge the path between mankind and God.
    Post edited by EddieLedBetter on
  • melodious
    melodious Posts: 1,719
    I believe that all cultures celebrate God and Jesus in their own language. I wonder what is the difference between Jesus as a Profet and others such as Ghandi, Rumi, or Mother Teresa.
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
  • EddieLedBetter
    EddieLedBetter Posts: 360
    BinFrog wrote:
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    Santa Claus and the tooth fairy never were publicly convicted, tortured or put to death. Not a good enough argument. Why would one wish to make this story up and have it passed down through the ages? What would be the purpose of that if there wasnt some truth?

    Civilization was in a vastly different place thousands of years ago. The religious texts were literally compilations of hand me down stories, as well as a loose moral code which, as we know, was very much left open to interpretation. The religious leaders at the time were not the same as we think of them now...they were very much creators of what we now view as classic religions. There was no template. But at that time people were very curious, scared, illiterate, and very easily controlled. If you put your faith in a religious figure, who in turn tells you that there is an afterlife, and that being humble in this life will lead to a great afterlife, and that the Old Testament/et al are the word of god...do you have any reason to question him? No. You don't realize that you CAN question the words from the religious leaders. And if you don't question them, you obey.

    And the funny thing is that, oddly enough, those religious leaders were usually the wealthy elite. So keeping people humble meant they could live a lavish lifestyle. Imagine that: those telling people to be humble were in fact not humble themselves. They knew how to exploit the uneducated. And you wonder why money and power corrupt.

    Let's put it this way: If someone were alive today claiming to be the son of god, and said he had direct access to the big man himself and knew how we should live...would we believe him? No. We would call him the leader of a cult, or cast him of as a David Copperfield clone if he tried to do any of his magic tricks so to speak.

    The key to the illusion of religion is realizing what the world was like when they came to be. As to why the masses continue to follow them, well, sometimes it's easier not to question things I suppose. That's my view at least.


    You mean like they did to Jesus?

    Religion is of man, not God. I fully agree with you on the corruption of the church.

    The beauty of the Bible is it was God breathed through men over thousands of years and yet it still upholds so much power today to those who emmerse themselves in it. I've honestly come to a place where I physically feel God in my life. The men who walked with Jesus and experienced the miracles and the resurrection where just the beginning.
  • skippybrew
    skippybrew Posts: 283
    Shawshank wrote:
    You won't find the body of Jesus, no matter what the Discovery Channel may say.
    You won't find most things that were around 2000 years ago...
    Shawshank wrote:
    The crucifixion of Jesus is not just a Biblical tale, it is also a well documented event within Roman history.
    I don't think skeptics argue that Jesus wasn't around or wasn't crucified. It's pretty accepted that Jesus of Nazareth was a real guy, it's the whole "Son of God" thing that trips me up.
    Shawshank wrote:
    In other words, it would not make sense for early followers to make up the story of the crucifixion because from their perspective it would have been somewhat embarrassing.
    It would make perfect sense (whether they made it up or just it happen). A martyr is much more powerful than a living person.
    Shawshank wrote:
    So why on earth would people be willing to sacrifice themselves, their families, and be tortured in every way conceivable for something that they knew was a lie?
    I don't think they "knew it was a lie." I'm sure they believed it fully, just like any other suicide cult that is around today.

    I don't think we can speak in terms of what "did" or "didn't" happen - there are things from last month that we can't prove or disprove, and this all went down thousands of years ago. As I said, there's not much dispute that Jesus was real, and that he had some real, dedicated followers. I even think he had some pretty groovy ideas. In the end, it's all about faith and belief, and everyone is certainly entitled to their own.
  • BinFrog
    BinFrog MA Posts: 7,314
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    You mean like they did to Jesus?

    Religion is of man, not God. I fully agree with you on the corruption of the church.

    The beauty of the Bible is it was God breathed through men over thousands of years and yet it still upholds so much power today to those who emmerse themselves in it. I've honestly come to a place where I physically feel God in my life. The men who walked with Jesus and experienced the miracles and the resurrection where just the beginning.


    I can't have a debate with you. You've come to 'knowledge' based on your faith, and nothing either of us says will have an affect on the other person. Religion, the story of Jesus, and the concept of the religious texts somehow being the word of God passed through men to me seems (laughably) silly. To each their own. I hope your faith gives you piece of mind.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • skippybrew
    skippybrew Posts: 283
    melodious wrote:
    I believe that all cultures celebrate God and Jesus in their own language. I wonder what is the difference between Jesus as a Profet and others such as Ghandi, Rumi, or Mother Teresa.
    Amen.
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,291
    Shawshank wrote:
    The crucifixion of Jesus is not just a Biblical tale, it is also a well documented event within Roman history.

    where is it well documented?
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  • EddieLedBetter
    EddieLedBetter Posts: 360
    BinFrog wrote:
    EddieLedBetter wrote:
    You mean like they did to Jesus?

    Religion is of man, not God. I fully agree with you on the corruption of the church.

    The beauty of the Bible is it was God breathed through men over thousands of years and yet it still upholds so much power today to those who emmerse themselves in it. I've honestly come to a place where I physically feel God in my life. The men who walked with Jesus and experienced the miracles and the resurrection where just the beginning.


    I can't have a debate with you. You've come to 'knowledge' based on your faith, and nothing either of us says will have an affect on the other person. Religion, the story of Jesus, and the concept of the religious texts somehow being the word of God passed through men to me seems (laughably) silly. To each their own. I hope your faith gives you piece of mind.

    What is science based on or personal experience then if not faith?
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    BinFrog wrote:
    skippybrew wrote:
    The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.

    To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?


    i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • skippybrew
    skippybrew Posts: 283
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    BinFrog wrote:
    skippybrew wrote:
    The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.

    To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?


    i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:

    Yeah, it was a simpler time... ;)
  • EddieLedBetter
    EddieLedBetter Posts: 360
    Gern Blansten wrote:
    Shawshank wrote:
    The crucifixion of Jesus is not just a Biblical tale, it is also a well documented event within Roman history.

    where is it well documented?

    Written in numerous accounts
    4 accounts of 4 different men in the Bible
    Tacitus
    Julius Africanus
    The Babylonian Talmud
    Lucian of Samosata
    Mara Bar-Serapion
    Flavius Josephus


    Like someone above said that not many things from 2000 years ago still exist.
  • EddieLedBetter
    EddieLedBetter Posts: 360
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    BinFrog wrote:
    skippybrew wrote:
    The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.

    To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?


    i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:

    What bible is that from?
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    BinFrog wrote:
    skippybrew wrote:
    The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.

    To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?


    i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
    this god sounds like a really compassionate all knowing being :roll:
  • skippybrew
    skippybrew Posts: 283
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    BinFrog wrote:

    i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:

    What bible is that from?

    Yours. Deuteronomy 22:28-29
  • skippybrew
    skippybrew Posts: 283
    Oops. Sorry, Pepe. Did that wrong.
  • BinFrog
    BinFrog MA Posts: 7,314
    skippybrew wrote:
    Oops. Sorry, Pepe. Did that wrong.

    Yeah, I definitely did not say that :)
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    skippybrew wrote:
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    BinFrog wrote:

    i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:

    What bible is that from?

    Yours. Deuteronomy 22:28-29

    hehe king james changed it but it's in a bunch of versions. i guess after a long time god changed his mind and whispered in James's ear

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=MSG
    28-29 When a man comes upon a virgin who has never been engaged and grabs and rapes her and they are found out, the man who raped her has to give her father fifty pieces of silver. He has to marry her because he took advantage of her. And he can never divorce her.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=NIRV
    28 Suppose a man happens to see a virgin who hasn't promised to marry another man. And the man who happens to see her rapes her. But someone discovers them. 29 Then the man must weigh out 20 ounces of silver. He must give it to the woman's father. The man must marry the woman, because he raped her. And he can never divorce her as long as he lives.
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    Well if we're gonna talk about some really progressive biblical principles... here are a few in regards to marriage that we should add to the Constitution:

    A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)

    B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines, in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)

    C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)

    D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh10:30)

    E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)

    F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe. (Gen.38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.

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