I'm guessing no one has taken the time to watch this yet. It is a hard to refute argument against what is known as christianity. Take a few minutes, and be blown away. Would love to see one comment about this video.
I'm guessing no one has taken the time to watch this yet. It is a hard to refute argument against what is known as christianity. Take a few minutes, and be blown away. Would love to see one comment about this video.
Also, I thought Bill Mahr's movie "Religulous" broke a lot of it down very well.
actually Zeitgeist has been debated here a bunch of times since it originally came out like 2 years ago....
Religulous was ok but he seemed a bit biased near the end towards Judaism
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
i think you may be misreading here. In more context Philipians chapter 2 says this:
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Clearly what is being spoken to here is our need to humble ourselves and be servants of our fellow man putting their needs above our own. Christ, who was God in human flesh, did this and we should strive to be like him. i think thats what this passage is saying.
Jesus claimed to be God incarnate. He claimed to forgive sins, perform miracles, etc. all in Gods name. Rights and abilities reserved for God himself. According to jewish law and tradition, which Jesus was a direct product of and operating within, this would be highly blasphemous. Obviously Jesus was not equating himself with God in some metaphorical sense. He was equating himself with God quite literally. This is what separates Jesus from Buddha, Muhammad etc. They did not make this claim.
i suppose it all depends on which version of the christian bible you are willing to believe to be the one true message, not sure how to explain all the other, later versions, though....like some bibles say 'rape' while others that came after, like the king james version, changed 'rape' to 'lie with' or something like that...i'd say there's a pretty big difference in those 2 terms. who knows, maybe god spoke to king james and told him he had some revisions for him or maybe he told james moses was drunk and took something out of context....if the christian message is the only truth, which of your versions is the one true version? doesn't it get complicated?
anyway, versions like young's literal translation say:
5For, let this mind be in you that [is] also in Christ Jesus,
6who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,
7but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
8and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
i'm just sayin, that is the literal translation of the bible. so, if we are to assume this verse shouldn't be taken so literally why should we take him rising from the dead and all the miracles so literally??
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Well without trying to turn this into a ping-pong match where we'll merely be going back and forth, I'll try and explain what I mean.
I can post a million and one scientific facts that dispprove religious text from where we came from and similar. We're discovering things all the time, whether it's fossils, other details about earth's history or things about the big bang and universe. All of these things disprove the origin story from god and similar.
Also, there's two different lines of thought when looking at these issues, does a person take the bible and origin story literally or is it a mere loose interpretation in which things are left out and these texts as a whole are a mere overview of stories, moral codes and philosophies to follow? If it's the literal interpretation, then we can easily dissect the story and all the facts which we now know about the origins of earth, carbon dating, etc to disprove that. Also, if we take it as literal, this leaves out tons of details which don't match up with the facts as we know them now....something as simple as the existence of dinosaurs. On the other hand, if you want to say these religious texts are mere stories for moral code and philosophies, that is fine, but it still doesn't make it based on fact, instead it simply means people wrote down these things centuries ago, but after that, it leaves a vaccum to prove the existence of a god from it. The only proof of god is someone's belief in such, nothing substantial. It's no different from me saying the best color or everyone's favorite color should be blue... why? Because I like it that way and everyone should agree.
???
Really? That's news to me. What science are you referring to that "close to proves" the non-existence of God? There is no such science. None at all. i'm not being condescending here. i'd really like to know what science your talking about.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I'm guessing no one has taken the time to watch this yet. It is a hard to refute argument against what is known as christianity. Take a few minutes, and be blown away. Would love to see one comment about this video.
Also, I thought Bill Mahr's movie "Religulous" broke a lot of it down very well.
actually Zeitgeist has been debated here a bunch of times since it originally came out like 2 years ago....
Religulous was ok but he seemed a bit biased near the end towards Judaism
So what do you think of what Zeitgeist lays down?
Btw, everyone here spouting off personal opinions as some kind of historical or scientific "proof"...please take the time and watch and THINK about the information presented in this film. IF you watch it, you will learn that christianity AS WE KNOW IT, is a complete myth!! And if Jesus was real, it is a total corruption of what he would have been about.
Evolution Music Studios presents:
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
I'm guessing no one has taken the time to watch this yet. It is a hard to refute argument against what is known as christianity. Take a few minutes, and be blown away. Would love to see one comment about this video.
Also, I thought Bill Mahr's movie "Religulous" broke a lot of it down very well.
actually Zeitgeist has been debated here a bunch of times since it originally came out like 2 years ago....
Religulous was ok but he seemed a bit biased near the end towards Judaism
So what do you think of what Zeitgeist lays down?
Btw, everyone here spouting off personal opinions as some kind of historical or scientific "proof"...please take the time and watch and THINK about the information presented in this film. IF you watch it, you will learn that christianity AS WE KNOW IT, is a complete myth!! And if Jesus was real, it is a total corruption of what he would have been about.
i think it helped solidify my opinion i had before that religions are basically the same, have the same overall message, but have minor differences due to their culture
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
And therein lies everything that is wrong with modern religion in a nutshell. "I am right and you are wrong". You have no idea and never will.
You have to be open to options in everytihng you do in life. Why is religion any different? That's like saying your way of making grilled cheese or strategizing in Tetris is right. Good luck convincing anyone of that.
Everyone needs to realize this very basic thought: religion and belief in God are exactly that: a belief. It's not an absolute, no matter how much you try and make it one. To a non-believer: Who cares that Jesus was the one to claim a direct link to God? That means NOTHING to someone with similar beliefs to mine. I mean nothing....at all.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
I can post a million and one scientific facts that dispprove religious text from where we came from and similar. We're discovering things all the time, whether it's fossils, other details about earth's history or things about the big bang and universe. All of these things disprove the origin story from god and similar.
1,000,001? Thats pretty impressive indeed. It should be very simple then to post one. i don't mind which scientific discipline you choose from. i'm still interested in hearing a "scientific fact that disproves God".
You mentioned the fossil record, for example. Is this the same fossil record that Charles Darwin himself said, if his theory on human origin was correct, would produce thousands of transitional species yet, to date hasn't really produced any? The same fossil record that evolutionary paleontologists once used Archaeopteryx as the capstone to prove a Darwinian origin, until fossils of ACTUAL birds that PREDATED Archaeopteryx forced them to reassess? Is it the same fossil record darwinian paleontologists had all mapped out until last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus once again has them scratching their collective head. "well... um... we... uh... FUCK!"
i believe you also alluded to archeology, astronomy, and cosmology. Again, i'm not being condescending and i don't care which of your "million and one facts" you choose from whichever scientific discipline you choose. i'm just interested in one.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
How's this for a start... where can the Bible, god or Genesis describe in the 7 days how the universe was created. This is actual proof of the Big Bang in action and the universe in its growth. This is actual fact, not a story written by humans or passed along by humans. Care to explain?
Also, we've proved the earth is an estimated 5 billion yrs old. This does not match what religion says. But if you would like to talk about one specific issue, how about the dinosaurs? It's the easiest and most blatantly red hering which has zero place in religion, the bible, god or genesis. Do you deny the existence of dinosaurs as a practicing Christian?? And if you do/don't, please give us your specific rational for the existence (or not) of dinosaurs and all the fossils we have from them.
1,000,001? Thats pretty impressive indeed. It should be very simple then to post one. i don't mind which scientific discipline you choose from. i'm still interested in hearing a "scientific fact that disproves God".
You mentioned the fossil record, for example. Is this the same fossil record that Charles Darwin himself said, if his theory on human origin was correct, would produce thousands of transitional species yet, to date hasn't really produced any? The same fossil record that evolutionary paleontologists once used Archaeopteryx as the capstone to prove a Darwinian origin, until fossils of ACTUAL birds that PREDATED Archaeopteryx forced them to reassess? Is it the same fossil record darwinian paleontologists had all mapped out until last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus once again has them scratching their collective head. "well... um... we... uh... FUCK!"
i believe you also alluded to archeology, astronomy, and cosmology. Again, i'm not being condescending and i don't care which of your "million and one facts" you choose from whichever scientific discipline you choose. i'm just interested in one.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i think you may be misreading here. In more context Philipians chapter 2 says this:
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Clearly what is being spoken to here is our need to humble ourselves and be servants of our fellow man putting their needs above our own. Christ, who was God in human flesh, did this and we should strive to be like him. i think thats what this passage is saying.
Jesus claimed to be God incarnate. He claimed to forgive sins, perform miracles, etc. all in Gods name. Rights and abilities reserved for God himself. According to jewish law and tradition, which Jesus was a direct product of and operating within, this would be highly blasphemous. Obviously Jesus was not equating himself with God in some metaphorical sense. He was equating himself with God quite literally. This is what separates Jesus from Buddha, Muhammad etc. They did not make this claim.
i suppose it all depends on which version of the christian bible you are willing to believe to be the one true message, not sure how to explain all the other, later versions, though....like some bibles say 'rape' while others that came after, like the king james version, changed 'rape' to 'lie with' or something like that...i'd say there's a pretty big difference in those 2 terms. who knows, maybe god spoke to king james and told him he had some revisions for him or maybe he told james moses was drunk and took something out of context....if the christian message is the only truth, which of your versions is the one true version? doesn't it get complicated?
anyway, versions like young's literal translation say:
5For, let this mind be in you that [is] also in Christ Jesus,
6who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,
7but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
8and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
i'm just sayin, that is the literal translation of the bible. so, if we are to assume this verse shouldn't be taken so literally why should we take him rising from the dead and all the miracles so literally??
The translation of the passage you posted and the translation of the passage i posted (both are quoted above if you wish to go back and reference) upon close examination are not saying anything different. They say the same thing, just in different language. The meaning is the same. Your translation, in a nutshell, still says: "Jesus, though God in human flesh, humbled himself, took the role of obedient servant, and we should be of like mind."
i'll give a concrete example. It may not be the best analogy but i think it works. Have you ever studied a language other than, what i'm assuming, is your native English? If you have then you've probably noticed how translations are sometimes a little loose. For example, there is a phrase in German that says something like "Du hast ein vogel im kopf!" Now, literally translated into english that says " You have a bird in the head!" What!? A bird in my head?! That sounds like it could cause some serious cerebral damage. What it means is "You're crazy!"
Seen? "You have a bird in the head" and "You're crazy", in this case, are making the same statement. Point being, upon examination and assessment, you're version and my version are different only in verbiage. They mean the same thing.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
How's this for a start... where can the Bible, god or Genesis describe in the 7 days how the universe was created. This is actual proof of the Big Bang in action and the universe in its growth. This is actual fact, not a story written by humans or passed along by humans. Care to explain?
Also, we've proved the earth is an estimated 5 billion yrs old. This does not match what religion says. But if you would like to talk about one specific issue, how about the dinosaurs? It's the easiest and most blatantly red hering which has zero place in religion, the bible, god or genesis. Do you deny the existence of dinosaurs as a practicing Christian?? And if you do/don't, please give us your specific rational for the existence (or not) of dinosaurs and all the fossils we have from them.
1,000,001? Thats pretty impressive indeed. It should be very simple then to post one. i don't mind which scientific discipline you choose from. i'm still interested in hearing a "scientific fact that disproves God".
You mentioned the fossil record, for example. Is this the same fossil record that Charles Darwin himself said, if his theory on human origin was correct, would produce thousands of transitional species yet, to date hasn't really produced any? The same fossil record that evolutionary paleontologists once used Archaeopteryx as the capstone to prove a Darwinian origin, until fossils of ACTUAL birds that PREDATED Archaeopteryx forced them to reassess? Is it the same fossil record darwinian paleontologists had all mapped out until last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus once again has them scratching their collective head. "well... um... we... uh... FUCK!"
i believe you also alluded to archeology, astronomy, and cosmology. Again, i'm not being condescending and i don't care which of your "million and one facts" you choose from whichever scientific discipline you choose. i'm just interested in one.
Wow, now at the risk of sounding condescending, which i'm still not being, you're an amateur. First off, the Hebrew translation for the word day can mean several things. One of which is not a 24 hour day as we know it but a much longer, extended period of time. So 7 "days" doesn't solidly imply 7 24 hour time periods. The Big bang, if you examine it carefully points more to a creation event than it does away from one. But all that is beside the point.
i didn't even mention Christianity or the Blble, though i am of Christian faith. i asked foe one of your "million and one scientific facts" that disprove God or a theistic worldview. You can't give me one, Bro. There aren't any. Perhaps i unintentionally baited you a little bit and for THAT i apologize. Carry on with the red herrings.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Listen, neither of us are going to say the other is correct, but I can atleast be honest about my viewpoint. I will never say we know 100% we know for a fact, but this is something religion seems to ignore. Apparently it's ok to just blindly accept something because you feel it and want it to be so. I consider myself a rational and logical person and base my believes on proof, justification and fact. You can sit here and claim language as a scapegoat, but in the end, you accept and acknowledge talking snakes, rising from the dead, woman from a rib, and all the other absurdities religion offers. And in the end, you have to defy logic, rational and fact to accept these things. To some that's a good thing called hope, to me it's idiocy. Just as I don't believe in zombies, pink unicorns or the tooth fairy, I don't believe in a god.
Wow, now at the risk of sounding condescending, which i'm still not being, you're an amateur. First off, the Hebrew translation for the word day can mean several things. One of which is not a 24 hour day as we know it but a much longer, extended period of time. So 7 "days" doesn't solidly imply 7 24 hour time periods. The Big bang, if you examine it carefully points more to a creation event than it does away from one. But all that is beside the point.
i didn't even mention Christianity or the Blble, though i am of Christian faith. i asked foe one of your "million and one scientific facts" that disprove God or a theistic worldview. You can't give me one, Bro. There aren't any. Perhaps i unintentionally baited you a little bit and for THAT i apologize. Carry on with the red herrings.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Listen, neither of us are going to say the other is correct, but I can atleast be honest about my viewpoint. I will never say we know 100% we know for a fact, but this is something religion seems to ignore. Apparently it's ok to just blindly accept something because you feel it and want it to be so. I consider myself a rational and logical person and base my believes on proof, justification and fact. You can sit here and claim language as a scapegoat, but in the end, you accept and acknowledge talking snakes, rising from the dead, woman from a rib, and all the other absurdities religion offers. And in the end, you have to defy logic, rational and fact to accept these things. To some that's a good thing called hope, to me it's idiocy. Just as I don't believe in zombies, pink unicorns or the tooth fairy, I don't believe in a god.
Wow, now at the risk of sounding condescending, which i'm still not being, you're an amateur. First off, the Hebrew translation for the word day can mean several things. One of which is not a 24 hour day as we know it but a much longer, extended period of time. So 7 "days" doesn't solidly imply 7 24 hour time periods. The Big bang, if you examine it carefully points more to a creation event than it does away from one. But all that is beside the point.
i didn't even mention Christianity or the Blble, though i am of Christian faith. i asked foe one of your "million and one scientific facts" that disprove God or a theistic worldview. You can't give me one, Bro. There aren't any. Perhaps i unintentionally baited you a little bit and for THAT i apologize. Carry on with the red herrings.
Um... i suppose i'll accept that as concession on your part. You have been reduced to accusing me of denying logic, rationality and fact yet cannot produce one of an alleged "miillion and one facts" that can disprove a theistic worldview while insisting YOUR belief is rooted in said facts. O.K.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
L Just as I don't believe in zombies, pink unicorns or the tooth fairy, I don't believe in a god.
]
Dude, you forgot the flying spaghetti monster! i've never engaged in this type of conversation in this forum without some numbskull making a ridiculous comment about some stupid ass "flying spaghetti monster". You're seriously running the risk of disappointing your peeps.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
L Just as I don't believe in zombies, pink unicorns or the tooth fairy, I don't believe in a god.
]
Dude, you forgot the flying spaghetti monster! i've never engaged in this type of conversation in this forum without some numbskull making a ridiculous comment about some stupid ass "flying spaghetti monster". You're seriously running the risk of disappointing your peeps.
Because to them (me), the story of God and Jesus and the resurrection/etc is just as fictitious.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Concession has nothing to do with it. I can be honest about my belief system and say albeit it's not 100%, it's certainly a work in progress through history, discovery, science and similar. What can you really say about proving god or religion other than saying "it just is because it is and I believe it"? That's no different an answer than you defending why your favorite color is what it is. That's not a work in progress, not based on fact or anything legitimate other than a persons specific wanting it to be true. And in the end that is the difference between me and most religious people, I accept my uncertainly or unproven aspect, but religious people are brazen, devout and deal in absolutes which is not practical to say the least.
L Just as I don't believe in zombies, pink unicorns or the tooth fairy, I don't believe in a god.
]
Dude, you forgot the flying spaghetti monster! i've never engaged in this type of conversation in this forum without some numbskull making a ridiculous comment about some stupid ass "flying spaghetti monster". You're seriously running the risk of disappointing your peeps.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Because to them (me), the story of God and Jesus and the resurrection/etc is just as fictitious.
yeah I told another guy in a PM that he needed to try to understand my point of view that arguing about god was kind of like arguing about blue monkeys living on the moon....equally absurd
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
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Because to them (me), the story of God and Jesus and the resurrection/etc is just as fictitious.
yeah I told another guy in a PM that he needed to try to understand my point of view that arguing about god was kind of like arguing about blue monkeys living on the moon....equally absurd
Yeah. You got me. A real think tank you two are.
:roll:
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
You're very quick to jump at details and facts, yet don't add anything to actually prove your side... so please go ahead and provide fact and detail about the existence of god. Oh that's right, you can't in the least bit.. zero percent...
Just in terms of imaginary characters, I always prefered Snuphalupagus, but that's just me...
Yeah. You got me. A real think tank you two are.
:roll:
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Yeah. You got me. A real think tank you two are.
:roll:
I actually think I have contributed quite a lot to this thread. I am not trying to bait anyone and I am not hurling insults at anyone. I believe in what I believe and am just trying to convey "the other side". When someone says to me "Jesus is the only way", my response is "How do you know", and when they continue saying he is the only one, apparently, who claims a direct link to God my response is: So?
We're debating. It has been civil so far. Don't insult my intelligence just because you don't agree with me.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
You're very quick to jump at details and facts, yet don't add anything to actually prove your side... so please go ahead and provide fact and detail about the existence of god. Oh that's right, you can't in the least bit.. zero percent...
Just in terms of imaginary characters, I always prefered Snuphalupagus, but that's just me...
Yeah. You got me. A real think tank you two are.
:roll:
As i recall, Einstein, you're the one who claimed to have access to a "million and one scientific facts" that prove God does not exist. Yet you can't produce any. i didn't make that claim.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
I can't produce any? Religion is pretty much in direct polar opposite of science. Do you not believe in basic sciences? You're very non-chalant about discrediting basic details and facts, yet go ahead and please explain the origins of man or Jesus - these things are not rational, factual nor logical. Next time you speak to a snake or create a spouse from one of your own parts, then please do take those very same wagging fingers you use towards everyone and aim them at yourself. Simply saying, I can recant or debate parts of your philosophy, doesn't equate to you being correct, in fact, you add nothing but "I believe it cause it's how I like it to be".
As i recall, Einstein, you're the one who claimed to have access to a "million and one scientific facts" that prove God does not exist. Yet you can't produce any. i didn't make that claim.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I can't produce any? Religion is pretty much in direct polar opposite of science. Do you not believe in basic sciences? You're very non-chalant about discrediting basic details and facts, yet go ahead and please explain the origins of man or Jesus - these things are not rational, factual nor logical. Next time you speak to a snake or create a spouse from one of your own parts, then please do take those very same wagging fingers you use towards everyone and aim them at yourself. Simply saying, I can recant or debate parts of your philosophy, doesn't equate to you being correct, in fact, you add nothing but "I believe it cause it's how I like it to be".
As i recall, Einstein, you're the one who claimed to have access to a "million and one scientific facts" that prove God does not exist. Yet you can't produce any. i didn't make that claim.
None of the incoherent babble you've put forth just now can be contributed to me or anything i've posted here. i didn't say any of it. When did i say "i believe it cause it's how i like it to be?" When? Point to where i said it? When did i "nonchalantly" discredit basic details and facts? You didn't OFFER any basic details or facts! Not a single one! You went on something about fossil records proved there was no God. i asked how? You didn't respond to that. i even pointed out specific details regarding the fossil record that you ignored. You gave no specific facts for me to "nonchalantly discredit"! i never even said my theistic worldview was proven correct. i never even claimed to KNOW absolutely my theistic worldview was correct. i never said it. What i DID, rather politely, claim is that you could not produce even one of your insisted upon "facts" that prove God doesn't exist. And in THAT, i am absolutely correct. You can't.
As far as your ignorance based quip about my disbelief in basic science, where the heck does that come from? When did i say i didn't believe in basic science? Of course i believe and accept scientific truths. My only comment was that no science, be it basic or highly advanced proves God does not exist. None of it. i've "wagged no fingers" here. Get over it and stop putting words in my metaphorical mouth.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
I can't produce any? Religion is pretty much in direct polar opposite of science.
Furthermore, i'm assuming, please correct me if i'm wrong, that by "religion" you mean theistic faith (which is a huge mistake in its own right. The two are not interchangeable concepts), and this statement of yours clearly manifests an ignorance of science AND faith. It simply isn't true.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
The burden of proof falls on the one making a claim.
.
???
Like the CLAIM that God does not exist? Or the CLAIM that science has all but proven that God does not exist? Don't come at me with this "burden of proof" nonsense. Its pure bullshit. A huge steaming pile.
It is impossible to prove a negative. I.E if I were to claim that Stephen Colbert was in fact Moses, and you were to say 'No he's not', then would you feel the need to PROVE that he isn't?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYSZZk9pIz8&feature=PlayList&p=C7EC93EE5B47F2CE&index=0
Also, I thought Bill Mahr's movie "Religulous" broke a lot of it down very well.
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
actually Zeitgeist has been debated here a bunch of times since it originally came out like 2 years ago....
Religulous was ok but he seemed a bit biased near the end towards Judaism
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
i'm just sayin, that is the literal translation of the bible. so, if we are to assume this verse shouldn't be taken so literally why should we take him rising from the dead and all the miracles so literally??
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I can post a million and one scientific facts that dispprove religious text from where we came from and similar. We're discovering things all the time, whether it's fossils, other details about earth's history or things about the big bang and universe. All of these things disprove the origin story from god and similar.
Also, there's two different lines of thought when looking at these issues, does a person take the bible and origin story literally or is it a mere loose interpretation in which things are left out and these texts as a whole are a mere overview of stories, moral codes and philosophies to follow? If it's the literal interpretation, then we can easily dissect the story and all the facts which we now know about the origins of earth, carbon dating, etc to disprove that. Also, if we take it as literal, this leaves out tons of details which don't match up with the facts as we know them now....something as simple as the existence of dinosaurs. On the other hand, if you want to say these religious texts are mere stories for moral code and philosophies, that is fine, but it still doesn't make it based on fact, instead it simply means people wrote down these things centuries ago, but after that, it leaves a vaccum to prove the existence of a god from it. The only proof of god is someone's belief in such, nothing substantial. It's no different from me saying the best color or everyone's favorite color should be blue... why? Because I like it that way and everyone should agree.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
So what do you think of what Zeitgeist lays down?
Btw, everyone here spouting off personal opinions as some kind of historical or scientific "proof"...please take the time and watch and THINK about the information presented in this film. IF you watch it, you will learn that christianity AS WE KNOW IT, is a complete myth!! And if Jesus was real, it is a total corruption of what he would have been about.
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
i think it helped solidify my opinion i had before that religions are basically the same, have the same overall message, but have minor differences due to their culture
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
And therein lies everything that is wrong with modern religion in a nutshell. "I am right and you are wrong". You have no idea and never will.
You have to be open to options in everytihng you do in life. Why is religion any different? That's like saying your way of making grilled cheese or strategizing in Tetris is right. Good luck convincing anyone of that.
Everyone needs to realize this very basic thought: religion and belief in God are exactly that: a belief. It's not an absolute, no matter how much you try and make it one. To a non-believer: Who cares that Jesus was the one to claim a direct link to God? That means NOTHING to someone with similar beliefs to mine. I mean nothing....at all.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
1,000,001? Thats pretty impressive indeed. It should be very simple then to post one. i don't mind which scientific discipline you choose from. i'm still interested in hearing a "scientific fact that disproves God".
You mentioned the fossil record, for example. Is this the same fossil record that Charles Darwin himself said, if his theory on human origin was correct, would produce thousands of transitional species yet, to date hasn't really produced any? The same fossil record that evolutionary paleontologists once used Archaeopteryx as the capstone to prove a Darwinian origin, until fossils of ACTUAL birds that PREDATED Archaeopteryx forced them to reassess? Is it the same fossil record darwinian paleontologists had all mapped out until last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus once again has them scratching their collective head. "well... um... we... uh... FUCK!"
i believe you also alluded to archeology, astronomy, and cosmology. Again, i'm not being condescending and i don't care which of your "million and one facts" you choose from whichever scientific discipline you choose. i'm just interested in one.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100105/ap_on_sc/us_sci_hubble_photo
Also, we've proved the earth is an estimated 5 billion yrs old. This does not match what religion says. But if you would like to talk about one specific issue, how about the dinosaurs? It's the easiest and most blatantly red hering which has zero place in religion, the bible, god or genesis. Do you deny the existence of dinosaurs as a practicing Christian?? And if you do/don't, please give us your specific rational for the existence (or not) of dinosaurs and all the fossils we have from them.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
The translation of the passage you posted and the translation of the passage i posted (both are quoted above if you wish to go back and reference) upon close examination are not saying anything different. They say the same thing, just in different language. The meaning is the same. Your translation, in a nutshell, still says: "Jesus, though God in human flesh, humbled himself, took the role of obedient servant, and we should be of like mind."
i'll give a concrete example. It may not be the best analogy but i think it works. Have you ever studied a language other than, what i'm assuming, is your native English? If you have then you've probably noticed how translations are sometimes a little loose. For example, there is a phrase in German that says something like "Du hast ein vogel im kopf!" Now, literally translated into english that says " You have a bird in the head!" What!? A bird in my head?! That sounds like it could cause some serious cerebral damage. What it means is "You're crazy!"
Seen? "You have a bird in the head" and "You're crazy", in this case, are making the same statement. Point being, upon examination and assessment, you're version and my version are different only in verbiage. They mean the same thing.
i didn't even mention Christianity or the Blble, though i am of Christian faith. i asked foe one of your "million and one scientific facts" that disprove God or a theistic worldview. You can't give me one, Bro. There aren't any. Perhaps i unintentionally baited you a little bit and for THAT i apologize. Carry on with the red herrings.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Because to them (me), the story of God and Jesus and the resurrection/etc is just as fictitious.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
yeah I told another guy in a PM that he needed to try to understand my point of view that arguing about god was kind of like arguing about blue monkeys living on the moon....equally absurd
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Yeah. You got me. A real think tank you two are.
:roll:
Just in terms of imaginary characters, I always prefered Snuphalupagus, but that's just me...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I actually think I have contributed quite a lot to this thread. I am not trying to bait anyone and I am not hurling insults at anyone. I believe in what I believe and am just trying to convey "the other side". When someone says to me "Jesus is the only way", my response is "How do you know", and when they continue saying he is the only one, apparently, who claims a direct link to God my response is: So?
We're debating. It has been civil so far. Don't insult my intelligence just because you don't agree with me.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
As far as your ignorance based quip about my disbelief in basic science, where the heck does that come from? When did i say i didn't believe in basic science? Of course i believe and accept scientific truths. My only comment was that no science, be it basic or highly advanced proves God does not exist. None of it. i've "wagged no fingers" here. Get over it and stop putting words in my metaphorical mouth.
Furthermore, i'm assuming, please correct me if i'm wrong, that by "religion" you mean theistic faith (which is a huge mistake in its own right. The two are not interchangeable concepts), and this statement of yours clearly manifests an ignorance of science AND faith. It simply isn't true.
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkRYaMiP4K8
It does not get any better.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Funny stuff!
i'm not familiar with that guy but he made me laugh. Good show.