The burden of proof falls on the one making a claim.
.
???
Like the CLAIM that God does not exist? Or the CLAIM that science has all but proven that God does not exist? Don't come at me with this "burden of proof" nonsense. Its pure bullshit. A huge steaming pile.
It is impossible to prove a negative. I.E if I were to claim that Stephen Colbert was in fact Moses, and you were to say 'No he's not', then would you feel the need to PROVE that he isn't?
Yada, yada, yada...
The burden of proof nonsense is a ridiculous fucking load of nonsense and a copout of colossal proportions. i'm literally sick of going over it in this forum.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Yada, yada, yada...
The burden of proof nonsense is a ridiculous fucking load of nonsense and a copout of colossal proportions. i'm literally sick of going over it in this forum.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Yada, yada, yada...
The burden of proof nonsense is a ridiculous fucking load of nonsense and a copout of colossal proportions. i'm literally sick of going over it in this forum.
can I be a disciple? that would be cool
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Yada, yada, yada...
The burden of proof nonsense is a ridiculous fucking load of nonsense and a copout of colossal proportions. i'm literally sick of going over it in this forum.
can I be a disciple? that would be cool
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I think Bill Maher put it best...."we believe the fairy tale that exists in whatever country we are born in" or something to that effect.
Infinite knowledge from the mind of MIT scholar Bill Maher.
fucking sheesh.
It is a humerous quote and yet there is a lot behind it. Why do you believe in what you believe in? Because your parents believe in it, as did their parents and their parents etc etc. Where did the beliefs originate? Groups of people all have those beliefs, and they generally originated from the same area. Coincidence?
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Nowadays, if you speak to god, perform a miracle or similar, you're crazy, but 2 thousand yrs ago its all ok.
Ain't religion wonderful?
I've always respected the street preachers/Jehovah's Witnesses/Mormons more than the average church goer. At least these people believe so strongly they lay it out there for everyone to see.
Yes they are crazy but that shows a dedication beyond going to church once a week and talking about Jesus on message boards.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I don't begrudge people for their beliefs no matter how crazy or polar from mine they may be. I feel people are entitled to make their own decisions and thought processes. But I do have a problem when people say stuff like, this is the way it absolutely is and eveyone else is wrong.
I've always respected the street preachers/Jehovah's Witnesses/Mormons more than the average church goer. At least these people believe so strongly they lay it out there for everyone to see.
Yes they are crazy but that shows a dedication beyond going to church once a week and talking about Jesus on message boards.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I don't begrudge people for their beliefs no matter how crazy or polar from mine they may be. I feel people are entitled to make their own decisions and thought processes. But I do have a problem when people say stuff like, this is the way it absolutely is and eveyone else is wrong.
I've always respected the street preachers/Jehovah's Witnesses/Mormons more than the average church goer. At least these people believe so strongly they lay it out there for everyone to see.
Yes they are crazy but that shows a dedication beyond going to church once a week and talking about Jesus on message boards.
agreed....I take special offense because I used to be one of those people
and I was wrong...
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
It is a humerous quote and yet there is a lot behind it. Why do you believe in what you believe in? Because your parents believe in it, as did their parents and their parents etc etc. Where did the beliefs originate? Groups of people all have those beliefs, and they generally originated from the same area. Coincidence?
A humorous quote? Absolutely. A lot behind it? Meh.
Culture undoubtedly plays some role in the faith of some but you way overgeneralize here. You're going to have to explain to me the millions of Christians in China, Russia, Afghanistan and other places of the world where such faith is not only not the cultural norm and in fact very frowned upon, but the practice of which is illegal and carries a punishment up to and including death. You're going to have to explain to me all of the Muslims, Buddhists, Jews etc. in the united states where such faiths are not the cultural norm. You're going to have to explain to me someone like me who was not raised with my Christian faith and who, throughout adolescence was rather hostile towards it yet came to it completely independent of culture and parental upbringing. Your going to have to explain to me the large number of individuals with no faith at all come to faith through their truly scholarly approach to such matters within many different disciplines. Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
That being said i didn't enter into this thread to discuss Christianity or its merits. i didn't even mention it. i personally don't care what you or anyone else here believes.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
It is a humerous quote and yet there is a lot behind it. Why do you believe in what you believe in? Because your parents believe in it, as did their parents and their parents etc etc. Where did the beliefs originate? Groups of people all have those beliefs, and they generally originated from the same area. Coincidence?
A humorous quote? Absolutely. A lot behind it? Meh.
Culture undoubtedly plays some role in the faith of some but you way overgeneralize here. You're going to have to explain to me the millions of Christians in China, Russia, Afghanistan and other places of the world where such faith is not only not the cultural norm and in fact very frowned upon, but the practice of which is illegal and carries a punishment up to and including death. You're going to have to explain to me all of the Muslims, Buddhists, Jews etc. in the united states where such faiths are not the cultural norm. You're going to have to explain to me someone like me who was not raised with my Christian faith and who, throughout adolescence was rather hostile towards it yet came to it completely independent of culture and parental upbringing. Your going to have to explain to me the large number of individuals with no faith at all come to faith through their truly scholarly approach to such matters within many different disciplines. Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
That being said i didn't enter into this thread to discuss Christianity or its merits. i didn't even mention it. i personally don't care what you or anyone else here believes.
The point being you are the religion you are born into....sure there are exceptions....I was born into a christian family and now I'm an atheist.
My kids were born into an atheist household and they consider the Jesus myth laughable. But if I beat them over the head with a bible you can bet they would be believing it.....just like I did when I was a kid.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
It is a humerous quote and yet there is a lot behind it. Why do you believe in what you believe in? Because your parents believe in it, as did their parents and their parents etc etc. Where did the beliefs originate? Groups of people all have those beliefs, and they generally originated from the same area. Coincidence?
A humorous quote? Absolutely. A lot behind it? Meh.
Culture undoubtedly plays some role in the faith of some but you way overgeneralize here. You're going to have to explain to me the millions of Christians in China, Russia, Afghanistan and other places of the world where such faith is not only not the cultural norm and in fact very frowned upon, but the practice of which is illegal and carries a punishment up to and including death. You're going to have to explain to me all of the Muslims, Buddhists, Jews etc. in the united states where such faiths are not the cultural norm. You're going to have to explain to me someone like me who was not raised with my Christian faith and who, throughout adolescence was rather hostile towards it yet came to it completely independent of culture and parental upbringing. Your going to have to explain to me the large number of individuals with no faith at all come to faith through their truly scholarly approach to such matters within many different disciplines. Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
That being said i didn't enter into this thread to discuss Christianity or its merits. i didn't even mention it. i personally don't care what you or anyone else here believes.
The point being you are the religion you are born into....sure there are exceptions....I was born into a christian family and now I'm an atheist.
My kids were born into an atheist household and they consider the Jesus myth laughable. But if I beat them over the head with a bible you can bet they would be believing it.....just like I did when I was a kid.
There are literally MILLIONS of exceptions around the globe. You're point is generalized almost to the point of not being a point at all.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
You're going to have to explain to me the millions of Christians in China, Russia, Afghanistan and other places of the world where such faith is not only not the cultural norm and in fact very frowned upon, but the practice of which is illegal and carries a punishment up to and including death.
Non sequitor but I'll oblige. These people truly believe in their faith for whatever reason: it gives them hope, or their family and close circle all practice, etc etc.
You're going to have to explain to me someone like me who was not raised with my Christian faith and who, throughout adolescence was rather hostile towards it yet came to it completely independent of culture and parental upbringing.
Your going to have to explain to me the large number of individuals with no faith at all come to faith through their truly scholarly approach to such matters within many different disciplines. Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
For every one person that comes to a new faith based on intense scholarly research, I'll show you 10,000 who do so because of coercion, proselytizing, peer pressure, lack of eduction & the pressure from missionaries, etc. There is no mass movement of people arriving at beliefs after spending years reading all of the holy books and delving into religious theory and doctrines. Again, there may be a handful here or there, but if you are trying to rule out exceptions, then this is invalid too.
But above all: this argument is a complete change of subject. I don't think anyone here is saying anything that contradicts what you just brought up...so why do I/we have to "explain" anything. There's nothing you said that needs explaining. What you just said in your post does nothing to even remotely give substance to your whole (previous) point. People converting to Christianity doesn't make me "see" that the story of Jesus must be real and absolute. People convert to Islam all the time. Possibly more so than Christianity. What does that prove?
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Got a gun,...in fact I got two,...that's okay man 'cause I love...
oh sorry, wrong forum lol
This sort of argument could go on for years, it amazes me to see what people can do when they believe in something so blindly, (ex. the war overseas)
I think we are actually on the brink of a shift in religious beliefs, there is a growing minority of people who are agnostic, and I'm not saying that perhaps they will take over, because everyone does something different to achieve their level of faith, but can you imagine a world without religion? Imagine all the lifes saved from religious wars, or sacrifices made for their religion? Not trying to plagerize John Lennon or anything, but he was on to something, lol. I think we would've probably been traveling in space by now, lol.
One thing that's bothered me though about religion is how religious people ALWAYS try to push their faith on non religious people, yet non religous people don't try to push anything on them, at least that's always happened in my lifetime. I think the next step for mankind will be the real acceptance of all faiths and races.
Oh yes
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Well it did supposedly turn George bush's life around, you know he was born again.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
One thing that's bothered me though about religion is how religious people ALWAYS try to push their faith on non religious people, yet non religous people don't try to push anything on them, at least that's always happened in my lifetime. I think the next step for mankind will be the real acceptance of all faiths and races.
Some pretty hefty generalizations, don't you think so, John? By "religious people" i assume you mean people of faith. They always try to push their faith onto you? Always? Really? You even emphasized the word by using all caps. I haven't tried to push faith on anyone through my participation in this thread. In fact, i never do. Hmm. ALWAYS. Very interesting. Also interesting is your position that "non religious" folks never push anything on anyone. Have you read this thread? A bunch of "non religious" posters calling those of faith "idiots" and "blind followers". Even your Lennonesque ramblings may be seen as somwhat of a position push by your own standards. No?
The question i have, and its a sincere question, is this. Why so threatened? It seems many (not all, i, unlike some, will not make such generalizations) are so hostile towards people of faith that their very mention of god is seen as a forcing of religious belief. How is that. Because i am of a theistic worldview doesn't mean i'm insisting you should be.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
The question i have, and its a sincere question, is this. Why so threatened? It seems many (not all, i, unlike some, will not make such generalizations) are so hostile towards people of faith that their very mention of god is seen as a forcing of religious belief. How is that. Because i am of a theistic worldview doesn't mean i'm insisting you should be.
You are doing the same exact thing. We're trying to have a debate, and you're just rolling your eyes at everything we bring up.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
The question i have, and its a sincere question, is this. Why so threatened? It seems many (not all, i, unlike some, will not make such generalizations) are so hostile towards people of faith that their very mention of god is seen as a forcing of religious belief. How is that. Because i am of a theistic worldview doesn't mean i'm insisting you should be.
You are doing the same exact thing. We're trying to have a debate, and you're just rolling your eyes at everything we bring up.
Yeah that's what I was going to say. Forgive my slang, but I'm not hating on religious people, lol, I was just stating that one issue I have is that with most "people of faith that I have been in contact with", they make me feel like I'm strange for not being affilated with any of it, and numerous times have I been asked why I don't go to church, why don't I accept Jesus as my savior, and I'm sorry, but to me, it's a little uncomfortable, as if they are putting pressure on me or looking down upon me because I don't believe in what they do. This is not some unknown act, Christianty, for example, wouldn't have spread as it did if it wasn't forced on certain groups, at least that's what I've gathered from history. And it would be neat to eventually live in a world where everyone was actually accepted for who they are, what they look like, and what they believe in. That is my opinion, im not saying it's right nor wrong, just participating in the debate.
If you disagree, you can't 100% disprove my statement, but we both know from science, fact and knowledge, that it is in fact untrue. And that's religion compared to science. I can't sit here and say 100% that a god/creator doesn't exist although we have plenty of fact and science to disprove that one does.. perhaps it's close to proven, but not 100%. But you can't prove any percent that your particular religion or thought is fact other than that it is what you believe things to be.
]
???
Really? That's news to me. What science are you referring to that "close to proves" the non-existence of God? There is no such science. None at all. i'm not being condescending here. i'd really like to know what science your talking about.
I don't buy in to Christianity, but I have to go along with cornnifer's question... How do you "disprove" God (without bashing in the opposition's skull)?
There are actually a remarkably few things that science can prove. Even "laws" (gravity, for example) are only considered to be accepted rules that stand until someone can disprove them. That's the scientific method. There are a hell of a lot more things that we don't understand than things that we do.
Quite frankly, it's a miracle that we're even here. Cellular biology, cognition, the wacky (and not fully understood) principles of water - we can basically explain what happens, but not why or sometimes even how. Even the chances that we have a planet with all the proper ingredients to sustain life as we know it are staggeringly infinitesimal. Who's to say a higher power didn't orchestrate it all?
For a miracle to exist it has to be based on some intangible correct? God is the intangible. Jesus said he came only to testify to the TRUTH. In which since the fall of man, Satan has been supplying lies for.
People argue; if God exists where did God come from? Yet they find it so easy to believe in the big bang theory which is based on something coming from nothing.
God created man perfect but left free will to man to chose to follow him or the lies of the world and Satan, and we chose poorly.
The bible teaches unlike other teachings that we are now of our father while we are in our worldly bodies, which is Satan. This explains why evil exists. This is so since the fall. Jesus came to bring truth to the lies that have been veiling our eyes for centuries. What would be the point of Him coming to lie about an already existing lie that we are so blindly following?
As for the above comment... Man many men who are faulty, speaking of todays christians, view Gods teachings wrongly further leading people away from God.
You're going to have to explain to me the millions of Christians in China, Russia, Afghanistan and other places of the world where such faith is not only not the cultural norm and in fact very frowned upon, but the practice of which is illegal and carries a punishment up to and including death.
Non sequitor but I'll oblige. These people truly believe in their faith for whatever reason: it gives them hope, or their family and close circle all practice, etc etc.
You're going to have to explain to me someone like me who was not raised with my Christian faith and who, throughout adolescence was rather hostile towards it yet came to it completely independent of culture and parental upbringing.
Your going to have to explain to me the large number of individuals with no faith at all come to faith through their truly scholarly approach to such matters within many different disciplines. Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
For every one person that comes to a new faith based on intense scholarly research, I'll show you 10,000 who do so because of coercion, proselytizing, peer pressure, lack of eduction & the pressure from missionaries, etc. There is no mass movement of people arriving at beliefs after spending years reading all of the holy books and delving into religious theory and doctrines. Again, there may be a handful here or there, but if you are trying to rule out exceptions, then this is invalid too.
But above all: this argument is a complete change of subject. I don't think anyone here is saying anything that contradicts what you just brought up...so why do I/we have to "explain" anything. There's nothing you said that needs explaining. What you just said in your post does nothing to even remotely give substance to your whole (previous) point. People converting to Christianity doesn't make me "see" that the story of Jesus must be real and absolute. People convert to Islam all the time. Possibly more so than Christianity. What does that prove?
What is truth? Can you explain that to me? What do you believe to be truth?
So many that are brought to faith by coercion as you say often turn away because of their lack of personal faith or willingness to see the actual lie.
i dont have faith because it gives me hope or a close circle of practice. I believe because i have searched for truth my entire life in all these aspects that are being brought up and nothing worldly gives me a good enough explaination as to the unexplainable like God does. I seek him and he gives me answers.
What is truth? Can you explain that to me? What do you believe to be truth?
So many that are brought to faith by coercion as you say often turn away because of their lack of personal faith or willingness to see the actual lie.
i dont have faith because it gives me hope or a close circle of practice. I believe because i have searched for truth my entire life in all these aspects that are being brought up and nothing worldly gives me a good enough explaination as to the unexplainable like God does. I seek him and he gives me answers.
I don't believe in any truth per se. I just don't put my faith in something as intangible as a "God" to make the unknown much more easy to digest. My view: I realize the universe is beyond my comprehension. There are some things I will never understand (existence, time, etc). That's not to say I don't have my own theories, but I'm not going to believe in some omnipotent, omnipresent deity to help 'explain' the unexplainable. To me, "God" was invented by humans to help explain things they could not comprehend. I find that idea strikingly easy to digest. It's just part of human history. You choose to believe in a God, for whatever reason, and that's fine by me. Who am I to say you are right or wrong? I don't mean this in an insulting way, but I think the belief in "God" is the easy way out:
"Why does x, y and z happen?"
"God." Done.
I know there's a lot more to it than that. Religion can give people a sense of ancestry and community. It's a way to belong and it can be there for moral support & guidance. I'm not saying there are not redeeming qualities to belonging to a religious organization. I don't believe in God. I don't believe in Jesus as the son of God. I don't think spending 4 hours every Sunday in a stained-glass filled building repeating the same words over and over has any relevance on my life or any possible after-life. You can't deny that there is no possible way for humans to EVER know what the "truth" is, if there even is one at all. You have your beliefs, and they are all tied up in folklore and stories handed down over centuries and finally written down. There is absolutely no denying that, and to say to the contrary is just being stubborn.
In one hand you ask why someone is only critical of Christianity, yet follow your comment with a comment warranting that kind of response. There's been thousands of religions throughout the history of the world, and if a persons' stance is to believe theirs' is the right way and everyone has that decision to make and think on their own, so be it and leave it at that, but don't be so brazen to say yours is a proven, more right or somehow the only way. For me personally, this is why I hate religion, because it is not kept to thy-self, it's spoken as fact or knowledge when it is nothing of the sort. I can believe pink unicorns walk the earth today and say I wholeheartedly belive this and anyone who doesn't is wrong. If you disagree, you can't 100% disprove my statement, but we both know from science, fact and knowledge, that it is in fact untrue. And that's religion compared to science. I can't sit here and say 100% that a god/creator doesn't exist although we have plenty of fact and science to disprove that one does.. perhaps it's close to proven, but not 100%. But you can't prove any percent that your particular religion or thought is fact other than that it is what you believe things to be.
What about Muslims, Hindus and so on? What about about what they teach? Can you stand them?
Some people have no problem bashing Christians or denying Jesus, it's a shame. I feel sorry for you.
There is only one way and thats throught Jesus.[/quote][/quote]
That factual science is the same as the factual science that believed the world to be flat or that everything revolved around the earth. Its only what man has been so lucky enough to prove up to this point. One puting their faith in that is just as silly as me putting my faith in the intangible. Thousands of years from now if God came down and said I am the way the the truth and life in human form, again for that matter, people would still not be able to believe. The truth is what we cant see and cant prove.
god didn't write the king james version, which replaced other versions at that time and is still a widely accepted version among christianity.
In January 1604, King James I of England convened the Hampton Court Conference where a new English version was conceived in response to the perceived problems of the earlier translations as detected by the Puritans, a faction within the Church of England.[7]
James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy. The translation was by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.
Instructions were given to the translators that were intended to limit the Puritan influence on this new translation. The Bishop of London added a qualification that the translators would add no marginal notes (which had been an issue in the Geneva Bible). King James cited two passages in the Geneva translation where he found the marginal notes offensive:[25] Exodus 1:17, where the Geneva Bible had commended the example of civil disobedience showed by the Hebrew midwives; and also II Chronicles 15:16, where the Geneva Bible had criticized King Asa for not having executed his idolatrous grandmother, Queen Maachah. Further, the King gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology of the Church of England. Certain Greek and Hebrew words were to be translated in a manner that reflected the traditional usage of the church. For example, old ecclesiastical words such as the word "church" were to be retained and not to be translated as "congregation". The new translation would reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and traditional beliefs about ordained clergy.
so, is that really the word of god or the word of those in power?
they didn't like some of the messages so they changed it, NOT god
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
What people thousands of years ago claimed he said gives you answers.[/quote]
No i pray for things, wisdom, insight, and guidance for example and see them manifested in my life in lessons brought to me through experience. The mountains and valleys I'm sure you've heard. The bible was human composed but God breathed and I cant deny that when I am in the word and praying and seeking answers that they manifest in my life and still uphold so much truths to what are written even though thousands of years down the road. Its unexplainable to someone who wont give it a shot. I've realized that "me" is nothing. That everything i touch see and feel is a direct result of the energy that God has given me. I came into being because of him, not by my own accord or some random chance. I evolved from a monkey like a mechanical pencil evolved from a wooden one... by creative intelligent design.
god didn't write the king james version, which replaced other versions at that time and is still a widely accepted version among christianity.
In January 1604, King James I of England convened the Hampton Court Conference where a new English version was conceived in response to the perceived problems of the earlier translations as detected by the Puritans, a faction within the Church of England.[7]
James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy. The translation was by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.
Instructions were given to the translators that were intended to limit the Puritan influence on this new translation. The Bishop of London added a qualification that the translators would add no marginal notes (which had been an issue in the Geneva Bible). King James cited two passages in the Geneva translation where he found the marginal notes offensive:[25] Exodus 1:17, where the Geneva Bible had commended the example of civil disobedience showed by the Hebrew midwives; and also II Chronicles 15:16, where the Geneva Bible had criticized King Asa for not having executed his idolatrous grandmother, Queen Maachah. Further, the King gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology of the Church of England. Certain Greek and Hebrew words were to be translated in a manner that reflected the traditional usage of the church. For example, old ecclesiastical words such as the word "church" were to be retained and not to be translated as "congregation". The new translation would reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and traditional beliefs about ordained clergy.
so, is that really the word of god or the word of those in power?
they didn't like some of the messages so they changed it, NOT god
sounds like another scheme of the enemy to stray those from God/Jesus' teachings. God and Satan both add influence to a mans decision. Jesus said test everything and ask the Father and not rely on me. Thats where many christians and non believers alike fail. They take the bible to literally or take certain instances and only give those reverance.
Comments
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Yada, yada, yada...
The burden of proof nonsense is a ridiculous fucking load of nonsense and a copout of colossal proportions. i'm literally sick of going over it in this forum.
Infinite knowledge from the mind of MIT scholar Bill Maher.
fucking sheesh.
dude...at least he doesn't believe in zombies and talking shrubbery
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I died yesterday, rose from the dead today and I call myself god. Prove me wrong.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
can I be a disciple? that would be cool
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Nowadays, if you speak to god, perform a miracle or similar, you're crazy, but 2 thousand yrs ago its all ok.
Ain't religion wonderful?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Doug Stanhope. Here is another good one of his regarding christianity and religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS5DaTIF1a0
It is a humerous quote and yet there is a lot behind it. Why do you believe in what you believe in? Because your parents believe in it, as did their parents and their parents etc etc. Where did the beliefs originate? Groups of people all have those beliefs, and they generally originated from the same area. Coincidence?
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
I've always respected the street preachers/Jehovah's Witnesses/Mormons more than the average church goer. At least these people believe so strongly they lay it out there for everyone to see.
Yes they are crazy but that shows a dedication beyond going to church once a week and talking about Jesus on message boards.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
agreed....I take special offense because I used to be one of those people
and I was wrong...
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
A humorous quote? Absolutely. A lot behind it? Meh.
Culture undoubtedly plays some role in the faith of some but you way overgeneralize here. You're going to have to explain to me the millions of Christians in China, Russia, Afghanistan and other places of the world where such faith is not only not the cultural norm and in fact very frowned upon, but the practice of which is illegal and carries a punishment up to and including death. You're going to have to explain to me all of the Muslims, Buddhists, Jews etc. in the united states where such faiths are not the cultural norm. You're going to have to explain to me someone like me who was not raised with my Christian faith and who, throughout adolescence was rather hostile towards it yet came to it completely independent of culture and parental upbringing. Your going to have to explain to me the large number of individuals with no faith at all come to faith through their truly scholarly approach to such matters within many different disciplines. Its not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
That being said i didn't enter into this thread to discuss Christianity or its merits. i didn't even mention it. i personally don't care what you or anyone else here believes.
The point being you are the religion you are born into....sure there are exceptions....I was born into a christian family and now I'm an atheist.
My kids were born into an atheist household and they consider the Jesus myth laughable. But if I beat them over the head with a bible you can bet they would be believing it.....just like I did when I was a kid.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
There are literally MILLIONS of exceptions around the globe. You're point is generalized almost to the point of not being a point at all.
Actually there is a LOT of truth behind it
Non sequitor but I'll oblige. These people truly believe in their faith for whatever reason: it gives them hope, or their family and close circle all practice, etc etc.
And where do most of them originate from? We're a country that is relatively open to religious freedom. What's your point?
(And as you said in another reply, there are always exceptions so don't bring up random individuals that convert)
Exceptions. You're in the vast, vast minority.
For every one person that comes to a new faith based on intense scholarly research, I'll show you 10,000 who do so because of coercion, proselytizing, peer pressure, lack of eduction & the pressure from missionaries, etc. There is no mass movement of people arriving at beliefs after spending years reading all of the holy books and delving into religious theory and doctrines. Again, there may be a handful here or there, but if you are trying to rule out exceptions, then this is invalid too.
But above all: this argument is a complete change of subject. I don't think anyone here is saying anything that contradicts what you just brought up...so why do I/we have to "explain" anything. There's nothing you said that needs explaining. What you just said in your post does nothing to even remotely give substance to your whole (previous) point. People converting to Christianity doesn't make me "see" that the story of Jesus must be real and absolute. People convert to Islam all the time. Possibly more so than Christianity. What does that prove?
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
oh sorry, wrong forum lol
This sort of argument could go on for years, it amazes me to see what people can do when they believe in something so blindly, (ex. the war overseas)
I think we are actually on the brink of a shift in religious beliefs, there is a growing minority of people who are agnostic, and I'm not saying that perhaps they will take over, because everyone does something different to achieve their level of faith, but can you imagine a world without religion? Imagine all the lifes saved from religious wars, or sacrifices made for their religion? Not trying to plagerize John Lennon or anything, but he was on to something, lol. I think we would've probably been traveling in space by now, lol.
One thing that's bothered me though about religion is how religious people ALWAYS try to push their faith on non religious people, yet non religous people don't try to push anything on them, at least that's always happened in my lifetime. I think the next step for mankind will be the real acceptance of all faiths and races.
Well it did supposedly turn George bush's life around, you know he was born again.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Some pretty hefty generalizations, don't you think so, John? By "religious people" i assume you mean people of faith. They always try to push their faith onto you? Always? Really? You even emphasized the word by using all caps. I haven't tried to push faith on anyone through my participation in this thread. In fact, i never do. Hmm. ALWAYS. Very interesting. Also interesting is your position that "non religious" folks never push anything on anyone. Have you read this thread? A bunch of "non religious" posters calling those of faith "idiots" and "blind followers". Even your Lennonesque ramblings may be seen as somwhat of a position push by your own standards. No?
The question i have, and its a sincere question, is this. Why so threatened? It seems many (not all, i, unlike some, will not make such generalizations) are so hostile towards people of faith that their very mention of god is seen as a forcing of religious belief. How is that. Because i am of a theistic worldview doesn't mean i'm insisting you should be.
You are doing the same exact thing. We're trying to have a debate, and you're just rolling your eyes at everything we bring up.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Yeah that's what I was going to say. Forgive my slang, but I'm not hating on religious people, lol, I was just stating that one issue I have is that with most "people of faith that I have been in contact with", they make me feel like I'm strange for not being affilated with any of it, and numerous times have I been asked why I don't go to church, why don't I accept Jesus as my savior, and I'm sorry, but to me, it's a little uncomfortable, as if they are putting pressure on me or looking down upon me because I don't believe in what they do. This is not some unknown act, Christianty, for example, wouldn't have spread as it did if it wasn't forced on certain groups, at least that's what I've gathered from history. And it would be neat to eventually live in a world where everyone was actually accepted for who they are, what they look like, and what they believe in. That is my opinion, im not saying it's right nor wrong, just participating in the debate.
For a miracle to exist it has to be based on some intangible correct? God is the intangible. Jesus said he came only to testify to the TRUTH. In which since the fall of man, Satan has been supplying lies for.
People argue; if God exists where did God come from? Yet they find it so easy to believe in the big bang theory which is based on something coming from nothing.
God created man perfect but left free will to man to chose to follow him or the lies of the world and Satan, and we chose poorly.
The bible teaches unlike other teachings that we are now of our father while we are in our worldly bodies, which is Satan. This explains why evil exists. This is so since the fall. Jesus came to bring truth to the lies that have been veiling our eyes for centuries. What would be the point of Him coming to lie about an already existing lie that we are so blindly following?
As for the above comment... Man many men who are faulty, speaking of todays christians, view Gods teachings wrongly further leading people away from God.
What is truth? Can you explain that to me? What do you believe to be truth?
So many that are brought to faith by coercion as you say often turn away because of their lack of personal faith or willingness to see the actual lie.
i dont have faith because it gives me hope or a close circle of practice. I believe because i have searched for truth my entire life in all these aspects that are being brought up and nothing worldly gives me a good enough explaination as to the unexplainable like God does. I seek him and he gives me answers.
I don't believe in any truth per se. I just don't put my faith in something as intangible as a "God" to make the unknown much more easy to digest. My view: I realize the universe is beyond my comprehension. There are some things I will never understand (existence, time, etc). That's not to say I don't have my own theories, but I'm not going to believe in some omnipotent, omnipresent deity to help 'explain' the unexplainable. To me, "God" was invented by humans to help explain things they could not comprehend. I find that idea strikingly easy to digest. It's just part of human history. You choose to believe in a God, for whatever reason, and that's fine by me. Who am I to say you are right or wrong? I don't mean this in an insulting way, but I think the belief in "God" is the easy way out:
"Why does x, y and z happen?"
"God."
Done.
I know there's a lot more to it than that. Religion can give people a sense of ancestry and community. It's a way to belong and it can be there for moral support & guidance. I'm not saying there are not redeeming qualities to belonging to a religious organization. I don't believe in God. I don't believe in Jesus as the son of God. I don't think spending 4 hours every Sunday in a stained-glass filled building repeating the same words over and over has any relevance on my life or any possible after-life. You can't deny that there is no possible way for humans to EVER know what the "truth" is, if there even is one at all. You have your beliefs, and they are all tied up in folklore and stories handed down over centuries and finally written down. There is absolutely no denying that, and to say to the contrary is just being stubborn.
What people thousands of years ago claimed he said gives you answers.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Some people have no problem bashing Christians or denying Jesus, it's a shame. I feel sorry for you.
There is only one way and thats throught Jesus.[/quote][/quote]
That factual science is the same as the factual science that believed the world to be flat or that everything revolved around the earth. Its only what man has been so lucky enough to prove up to this point. One puting their faith in that is just as silly as me putting my faith in the intangible. Thousands of years from now if God came down and said I am the way the the truth and life in human form, again for that matter, people would still not be able to believe. The truth is what we cant see and cant prove.
so, is that really the word of god or the word of those in power?
they didn't like some of the messages so they changed it, NOT god
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
What people thousands of years ago claimed he said gives you answers.[/quote]
No i pray for things, wisdom, insight, and guidance for example and see them manifested in my life in lessons brought to me through experience. The mountains and valleys I'm sure you've heard. The bible was human composed but God breathed and I cant deny that when I am in the word and praying and seeking answers that they manifest in my life and still uphold so much truths to what are written even though thousands of years down the road. Its unexplainable to someone who wont give it a shot. I've realized that "me" is nothing. That everything i touch see and feel is a direct result of the energy that God has given me. I came into being because of him, not by my own accord or some random chance. I evolved from a monkey like a mechanical pencil evolved from a wooden one... by creative intelligent design.
sounds like another scheme of the enemy to stray those from God/Jesus' teachings. God and Satan both add influence to a mans decision. Jesus said test everything and ask the Father and not rely on me. Thats where many christians and non believers alike fail. They take the bible to literally or take certain instances and only give those reverance.