The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.
To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?
i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.
To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?
i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
The crucifixion of Jesus is not just a Biblical tale, it is also a well documented event within Roman history.
where is it well documented?
Written in numerous accounts
4 accounts of 4 different men in the Bible
Tacitus
Julius Africanus
The Babylonian Talmud
Lucian of Samosata
Mara Bar-Serapion
Flavius Josephus
Like someone above said that not many things from 2000 years ago still exist.
The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.
To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?
i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
The Bible is unbelievable in the same way that any fantasy story is unbelievable. No one alive can say whether or not it's true (I don't think it is, but I'm only human, as are most of us). It has some good (though conflicting) messages, but if you believe it word for word then you should believe every story that's ever been published.
To me, the opposite is true: If you don't believe every book ever written, then why wouldn't you question the Bible as well?
i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
this god sounds like a really compassionate all knowing being :roll:
i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
What bible is that from?
Yours. Deuteronomy 22:28-29
hehe king james changed it but it's in a bunch of versions. i guess after a long time god changed his mind and whispered in James's ear
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=MSG
28-29 When a man comes upon a virgin who has never been engaged and grabs and rapes her and they are found out, the man who raped her has to give her father fifty pieces of silver. He has to marry her because he took advantage of her. And he can never divorce her.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=NIRV
28 Suppose a man happens to see a virgin who hasn't promised to marry another man. And the man who happens to see her rapes her. But someone discovers them. 29 Then the man must weigh out 20 ounces of silver. He must give it to the woman's father. The man must marry the woman, because he raped her. And he can never divorce her as long as he lives.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Well if we're gonna talk about some really progressive biblical principles... here are a few in regards to marriage that we should add to the Constitution:
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)
B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines, in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)
C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)
D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh10:30)
E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe. (Gen.38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Civilization was in a vastly different place thousands of years ago. The religious texts were literally compilations of hand me down stories, as well as a loose moral code which, as we know, was very much left open to interpretation. The religious leaders at the time were not the same as we think of them now...they were very much creators of what we now view as classic religions. There was no template. But at that time people were very curious, scared, illiterate, and very easily controlled. If you put your faith in a religious figure, who in turn tells you that there is an afterlife, and that being humble in this life will lead to a great afterlife, and that the Old Testament/et al are the word of god...do you have any reason to question him? No. You don't realize that you CAN question the words from the religious leaders. And if you don't question them, you obey.
And the funny thing is that, oddly enough, those religious leaders were usually the wealthy elite. So keeping people humble meant they could live a lavish lifestyle. Imagine that: those telling people to be humble were in fact not humble themselves. They knew how to exploit the uneducated. And you wonder why money and power corrupt.
Let's put it this way: If someone were alive today claiming to be the son of god, and said he had direct access to the big man himself and knew how we should live...would we believe him? No. We would call him the leader of a cult, or cast him of as a David Copperfield clone if he tried to do any of his magic tricks so to speak.
The key to the illusion of religion is realizing what the world was like when they came to be. As to why the masses continue to follow them, well, sometimes it's easier not to question things I suppose. That's my view at least.
I 100% agree with you. And particularly agree with "As to why the masses continue to follow them, well, sometimes it's easier not to question things I suppose."
Toronto - 2009
Hartford - 2010
Ed Solo - Hartford - 2011
Toronto X 2, Ottawa & Hamilton - 2011
Ed Solo - Jacksonville - 2012
London, Pittsburgh & Buffalo - 2013
No shows in 2014 :-(
...The beauty of the Bible is it was God breathed through men over thousands of years and yet it still upholds so much power today to those who emmerse themselves in it. I've honestly come to a place where I physically feel God in my life. The men who walked with Jesus and experienced the miracles and the resurrection where just the beginning.
...
I can only speak for myself... if you find comfort in the Bible... I'm happy for you.
...
I cannot because I do not trust the church. The church who decided what goes in and what stays out. The Old Testament is different. It was written to set laws for the times... that whole stoning a person for adultery or paying burnt offerings to the temple priests for wearing white after Labor Day thing.
The early Church of Rome... whose council of bishops (church's version of politicians) decided what we should be read. And the Bible was in the sole possession of the church for many centuries. The printing press did not get invented til the late 1500s and the masses were too poor and/or too illiterate to read for themselves. so, the church interpreted the Bible for them.
Yeah... I can see the stories and passages of the Bible being inspirational and uplifting... the same way I find the words of Shelley, Keats or Vedder insporational and uplifting. But, truth? Relative truths, to me... not absolute.
...
Finally... on miracles... I wonder...
If Chriss Angel were to go into a time machine set for 1 B.C. and performed his magic tricks to men with the knowledge of nature and science of 1 B.C...
Would there be a church established in Chriss Angel's name today?
...
Again.. not comparing Chriss Angel (douche) to Jesus (not a douche)... just asking what the Witnesses would have written.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
It seems to me the Bible is an attempt at many things. Some it accomplishes better than others. I think it worked wonders in making a downtrodden people feel much less powerless against enemies. It is also an attempt at a political system...and as such, again it worked well for a limited time for a small group of people. It is also an attempt to make comprehensible the Unknown, to make order from chaos. This has not been a very successful attempt with me personally, but worldwide has been a major hit with a little shift from literal tribes to a metaphorical set of tribes...anyone who believes in this particular deity. Most religions are just too much for me...it is very hard for me to reconcile a god who gives Hannibal Lecter a run for his money while at the same time claiming to be the prince of peace...as his other incarnation as his own son. I know the Old Testament was supposed to be forgotten when this God got a makeover. But, people still quote from the Old Testament as if it never went away to justify all kinds of injustices. Still, the Bible is fascinating. It's an attempt by people to try to understand themselves and their existence. It's a respectable try as that--and it's quite a mirror and insight into who and what we are, particularly--confused and insecure, yet powerful creatures for whom stories can actually supplant reality, for better and worse. "Just believe" is not only words from Disney movies, pep talks, and religions...if the human heart came engraved, I believe it is what would be our ultimate message...believing it so can make it so. And our magic is such--think placebos, etc., that it can be so at times. In my opinion God did not make us; we made him or her thousands and thousands of times over. It's a double edged sword for us, both a gift and a curse. Belief binds us together and blows us apart. And keeps us talking and talking....
The Bible = to me all scripture be it Christian, Buddhist or Hindu etc is a form of mythology. And more specifically a fictional story used as guiding principles to live a better life... or at some point possibly a form of control. They are not meant to be taken literally which is part of the problem with some "religious folk".
Anyway
God, Jesus and such are characters of the mythology that we call the bible. Does that explain our existence no, not really but we will never know that for certain. However science will continue to try to explain it to us.
Lastly when I went to the exhibit here in Chicago of the Dead sea scrolls some years ago one thing I took from it is that no one really knows what the ancient text says. They are old, hard to read, in little pieces and written in forms of languages that people do not speak any longer. When translating most of them, they took the best guess approach
Santa Claus and the tooth fairy never were publicly convicted, tortured or put to death. Not a good enough argument. Why would one wish to make this story up and have it passed down through the ages? What would be the purpose of that if there wasnt some truth?
Have you ever played telephone?
Well just do that over a few thousand years. Legend, rumor, myth, stories become fact. Remember, this was before the internet age, phone.. things were barely messages by horse. Some dude writes a bible story and over time it inspires and becomes truth.. same with any religion. There's plenty of literature for them. Guess they're all true, but prove each other wrong likewise.
Christianity is based off of the pagan religions of before.
I won't argue its false, because I am agnostic, but I just don't buy it. I'm sure there's some truth to some of the events, but not close to what people make of it.
Santa Claus and the tooth fairy never were publicly convicted, tortured or put to death. Not a good enough argument. Why would one wish to make this story up and have it passed down through the ages? What would be the purpose of that if there wasnt some truth?
Have you ever played telephone?
Well just do that over a few thousand years. Legend, rumor, myth, stories become fact. Remember, this was before the internet age, phone.. things were barely messages by horse. Some dude writes a bible story and over time it inspires and becomes truth.. same with any religion. There's plenty of literature for them. Guess they're all true, but prove each other wrong likewise.
Christianity is based off of the pagan religions of before.
I won't argue its false, because I am agnostic, but I just don't buy it. I'm sure there's some truth to some of the events, but not close to what people make of it.
Software programers create a program and then perfect it to run the way they want it to. Programs dont just boom appear out of no where for no reason. They dont create a program to just be they want it to do something for them. Thats what I dont get about science; it bases itself on the tangables but fails to recognize this one right in front of its face.
If a God can create a universe and an entire existence then why couldnt he work his hand in composing the story of "why" he wants his creation to live and send a guy who was him to die for his creation. Even scientist agree that its an extreme miracle that we exist for all the conditions to be so exact that life is able to flurish on a rock zooming through space/time.
I just doesnt seem to be a coincidence that a book that was composed over thousands of years by numerous people claiming to be spoken to by God and performing miracles can still have so much power and relevance in so many peoples lives. Only one story did a guy raise from the dead. Jim Jones, Buddah, L Ron Hubbard, and all those other fabrications by the opposing dark leader didnt do this. Why didnt they just throw it in there to make their stories more believable.
Sorry man, but none of your 'logic' is logic at all. Frankenstein also "raised a guy from the dead", which coincidentally enough was written also in a far different time and the societal issues of the day are seen throughout the story.
You are stretching, and I don't see anything, I mean at all, of value in some of your assertions.
If something can't come of nothing, then who is to say there ever was truly nothing at all? Time does not have to be linear. In fact, I don't think it can be. Not everything needs a start and a stop. That's a human construct, because that is all we see in our lives: life and death, sunrise and sunset, what goes up comes down. "God" conveniently gives an answer to where we came from: no more having to think about it. Is it any wonder how the idea of "God", as we know it to be today, came to be a few thousand years ago? Again, remember that society was a completely different entity back then. "God" easily explains SO many things that can't be easily explained. And with no education, scientists, Hubble telescope, institutions of learning and other ways of discovering the world and the universe...how else do you make sense of existence? You do so by not making sense of it and putting your faith in what the elite few tell you to.
Funny how that still exists today.
I find ironic humor in your use of the word "story". "Only one story can be true, right?". That thought is the very reason why we have had 90% of the wars in our history. It's a story, amongst many, and no-one will ever know if 1 is true over any of the other ones, or if any of them are true at all. They are all hand-me-down bits and pieces of social mores, folklore and mysticism gathered from all sorts of various tribes and civilizations.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
What bible is that from?
Yours. Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Talk about a different time and different place. Thats why its call Old testiment.
Talk about a different time and different place. Thats why its call Old testiment.
Ah, straight to the heart of the matter.
Exactly who decides what parts of this holy, true book is to be taken literally, and what parts we just skim past and ignore? If God dodn't mean any of that, why is it in his holy book? Or did he just use to be a horrible bloody god that somewhere along the way cleaned up his act and made the new testament and all that? Why even still use the old testament if it is outdated and upgraded in the new one?
It makes much more sense to read it in context as a combined law/folklore/history collection made in a time and place by a certain people, which explains why all their ways are ordained and sacntioned by God who must not be messed with. And "ordained by God" can be replaced with "because it is (was) tradition, and you dont mess with that".
As for the theme here, I am somewhat open to the idea of God in the sense of a force. Christ was a groovy guru fellow who had some nice sayings but executed by the romans who feared a rebellion among the jews(and rightly so in those days). The bible is culture, folklore mixed in with some history, very dependent on the time and place(s) it was written.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
oh boy... another person who thinks there is one immutable, concrete, and unquestionable "reality" that 100% of the world should agree upon. How medieval of you...
"I don't mind the idea of Christianity, I just can't stand christians." - can't remember who... :roll:
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
yes. I love it... and I love how some people think the dude who started it is serious.
My favorite passage from the bible is the one in Deuteronomy where is says if my brother dies I have to marry his wife... and if I don't I have to pay the fine of one shoe.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
yes. I love it... and I love how some people think the dude who started it is serious.
My favorite passage from the bible is the one in Deuteronomy where is says if my brother dies I have to marry his wife... and if I don't I have to pay the fine of one shoe.
One thing that always bugged me too - the Bible says I can't eat shrimp, mussels, clams or lobsters, but apparently I can eat locusts (Leviticus 11:22).
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
One thing that always bugged me too - the Bible says I can't eat shrimp, mussels, clams or lobsters, but apparently I can eat locusts (Leviticus 11:22).
Dude I am SAFE! I can't eat shellfish... hallelujah! well... I do cheat sometimes and suffer through a mild allergic reaction. Maybe that'll at least get me there via a short stint in purgatory.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
One thing that always bugged me too - the Bible says I can't eat shrimp, mussels, clams or lobsters, but apparently I can eat locusts (Leviticus 11:22).
Pun intended?
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
One thing that always bugged me too - the Bible says I can't eat shrimp, mussels, clams or lobsters, but apparently I can eat locusts (Leviticus 11:22).
Dude I am SAFE! I can't eat shellfish... hallelujah! well... I do cheat sometimes and suffer through a mild allergic reaction. Maybe that'll at least get me there via a short stint in purgatory.
Makes me wonder how the women who follow the Bible literally get through their days, I mean, sheesh:
"When a woman has a discharge of blood, which is her regular discharge from her body, she shall be in her impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening." -- Leviticus 15:19-20
My ex GF would have thrown a fit if I had to avoid her while she was on her period... I'd have slept on the couch for a month.
and even better:
"When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand." -- Deuteronomy 25:11-12
So basically, if I fight with my friend, and his wife breaks up the fight by grabbing my crotch, she loses her hand? Is kicking me in the crotch OK then? :twisted:
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Software programers create a program and then perfect it to run the way they want it to. Programs dont just boom appear out of no where for no reason. They dont create a program to just be they want it to do something for them. Thats what I dont get about science; it bases itself on the tangables but fails to recognize this one right in front of its face.
If a God can create a universe and an entire existence then why couldnt he work his hand in composing the story of "why" he wants his creation to live and send a guy who was him to die for his creation. Even scientist agree that its an extreme miracle that we exist for all the conditions to be so exact that life is able to flurish on a rock zooming through space/time.
I just doesnt seem to be a coincidence that a book that was composed over thousands of years by numerous people claiming to be spoken to by God and performing miracles can still have so much power and relevance in so many peoples lives. Only one story did a guy raise from the dead. Jim Jones, Buddah, L Ron Hubbard, and all those other fabrications by the opposing dark leader didnt do this. Why didnt they just throw it in there to make their stories more believable.
Only one story can be true right?
...
Sticking with the Programmer/Program analogy... God's Beta version of Man was a Monkey (Release 1, v.1.00)... and we are the ongoing results of the upgrades using the programming language of Evolution and represent Monkey v.7.3.2.4?
And the Reference Manual, is actually 1,410 years old... unless you include the Old Reference Manual... that has the chapter that explains how the program was created... gets dismissed as old COBAL rules and no longer pertains to us.
...
As for Jesus... I'll give you His life here on Earth... but, His resurrection... that requires a leap of faith. The same way a Scientologist will take the leap of faith regarding L.Ron Hubbard's words. I like the message of Jesus and the lessons He teaches us... but, I'm not laying all my mistakes on His back. i made those mistakes... I'll accept them as mine as well as the responsibilities that came along with them.
Again... I am happy you have faith.. sometimes I wish i had something to believe in, too. But for right now... Christianity, Scientology, Islam... they're all the same to me... and not for me.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
i know, the bible said if you rape an unbetrothed virgin your punishment was you had to pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her! it was god's plan that women be forced to be sold and married off to their rapist... :roll:
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Yeah, it was a simpler time...
Written in numerous accounts
4 accounts of 4 different men in the Bible
Tacitus
Julius Africanus
The Babylonian Talmud
Lucian of Samosata
Mara Bar-Serapion
Flavius Josephus
Like someone above said that not many things from 2000 years ago still exist.
What bible is that from?
Yours. Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Yeah, I definitely did not say that
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
hehe king james changed it but it's in a bunch of versions. i guess after a long time god changed his mind and whispered in James's ear
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=MSG
28-29 When a man comes upon a virgin who has never been engaged and grabs and rapes her and they are found out, the man who raped her has to give her father fifty pieces of silver. He has to marry her because he took advantage of her. And he can never divorce her.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=NIRV
28 Suppose a man happens to see a virgin who hasn't promised to marry another man. And the man who happens to see her rapes her. But someone discovers them. 29 Then the man must weigh out 20 ounces of silver. He must give it to the woman's father. The man must marry the woman, because he raped her. And he can never divorce her as long as he lives.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)
B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines, in addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)
C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)
D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Gen24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh10:30)
E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe. (Gen.38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
I 100% agree with you. And particularly agree with "As to why the masses continue to follow them, well, sometimes it's easier not to question things I suppose."
Hartford - 2010
Ed Solo - Hartford - 2011
Toronto X 2, Ottawa & Hamilton - 2011
Ed Solo - Jacksonville - 2012
London, Pittsburgh & Buffalo - 2013
No shows in 2014 :-(
I can only speak for myself... if you find comfort in the Bible... I'm happy for you.
...
I cannot because I do not trust the church. The church who decided what goes in and what stays out. The Old Testament is different. It was written to set laws for the times... that whole stoning a person for adultery or paying burnt offerings to the temple priests for wearing white after Labor Day thing.
The early Church of Rome... whose council of bishops (church's version of politicians) decided what we should be read. And the Bible was in the sole possession of the church for many centuries. The printing press did not get invented til the late 1500s and the masses were too poor and/or too illiterate to read for themselves. so, the church interpreted the Bible for them.
Yeah... I can see the stories and passages of the Bible being inspirational and uplifting... the same way I find the words of Shelley, Keats or Vedder insporational and uplifting. But, truth? Relative truths, to me... not absolute.
...
Finally... on miracles... I wonder...
If Chriss Angel were to go into a time machine set for 1 B.C. and performed his magic tricks to men with the knowledge of nature and science of 1 B.C...
Would there be a church established in Chriss Angel's name today?
...
Again.. not comparing Chriss Angel (douche) to Jesus (not a douche)... just asking what the Witnesses would have written.
Hail, Hail!!!
Anyway
God, Jesus and such are characters of the mythology that we call the bible. Does that explain our existence no, not really but we will never know that for certain. However science will continue to try to explain it to us.
Lastly when I went to the exhibit here in Chicago of the Dead sea scrolls some years ago one thing I took from it is that no one really knows what the ancient text says. They are old, hard to read, in little pieces and written in forms of languages that people do not speak any longer. When translating most of them, they took the best guess approach
Well just do that over a few thousand years. Legend, rumor, myth, stories become fact. Remember, this was before the internet age, phone.. things were barely messages by horse. Some dude writes a bible story and over time it inspires and becomes truth.. same with any religion. There's plenty of literature for them. Guess they're all true, but prove each other wrong likewise.
Christianity is based off of the pagan religions of before.
I won't argue its false, because I am agnostic, but I just don't buy it. I'm sure there's some truth to some of the events, but not close to what people make of it.
I was always fascinated with the evolution of christianity from sun worship....great information and it's obvious as hell
something as simple as the symbolism of the 12 disciples inserts itself into many different belief systems
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Software programers create a program and then perfect it to run the way they want it to. Programs dont just boom appear out of no where for no reason. They dont create a program to just be they want it to do something for them. Thats what I dont get about science; it bases itself on the tangables but fails to recognize this one right in front of its face.
If a God can create a universe and an entire existence then why couldnt he work his hand in composing the story of "why" he wants his creation to live and send a guy who was him to die for his creation. Even scientist agree that its an extreme miracle that we exist for all the conditions to be so exact that life is able to flurish on a rock zooming through space/time.
I just doesnt seem to be a coincidence that a book that was composed over thousands of years by numerous people claiming to be spoken to by God and performing miracles can still have so much power and relevance in so many peoples lives. Only one story did a guy raise from the dead. Jim Jones, Buddah, L Ron Hubbard, and all those other fabrications by the opposing dark leader didnt do this. Why didnt they just throw it in there to make their stories more believable.
Only one story can be true right?
Sorry man, but none of your 'logic' is logic at all. Frankenstein also "raised a guy from the dead", which coincidentally enough was written also in a far different time and the societal issues of the day are seen throughout the story.
You are stretching, and I don't see anything, I mean at all, of value in some of your assertions.
If something can't come of nothing, then who is to say there ever was truly nothing at all? Time does not have to be linear. In fact, I don't think it can be. Not everything needs a start and a stop. That's a human construct, because that is all we see in our lives: life and death, sunrise and sunset, what goes up comes down. "God" conveniently gives an answer to where we came from: no more having to think about it. Is it any wonder how the idea of "God", as we know it to be today, came to be a few thousand years ago? Again, remember that society was a completely different entity back then. "God" easily explains SO many things that can't be easily explained. And with no education, scientists, Hubble telescope, institutions of learning and other ways of discovering the world and the universe...how else do you make sense of existence? You do so by not making sense of it and putting your faith in what the elite few tell you to.
Funny how that still exists today.
I find ironic humor in your use of the word "story". "Only one story can be true, right?". That thought is the very reason why we have had 90% of the wars in our history. It's a story, amongst many, and no-one will ever know if 1 is true over any of the other ones, or if any of them are true at all. They are all hand-me-down bits and pieces of social mores, folklore and mysticism gathered from all sorts of various tribes and civilizations.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Talk about a different time and different place. Thats why its call Old testiment.
Ah, straight to the heart of the matter.
Exactly who decides what parts of this holy, true book is to be taken literally, and what parts we just skim past and ignore? If God dodn't mean any of that, why is it in his holy book? Or did he just use to be a horrible bloody god that somewhere along the way cleaned up his act and made the new testament and all that? Why even still use the old testament if it is outdated and upgraded in the new one?
It makes much more sense to read it in context as a combined law/folklore/history collection made in a time and place by a certain people, which explains why all their ways are ordained and sacntioned by God who must not be messed with. And "ordained by God" can be replaced with "because it is (was) tradition, and you dont mess with that".
As for the theme here, I am somewhat open to the idea of God in the sense of a force. Christ was a groovy guru fellow who had some nice sayings but executed by the romans who feared a rebellion among the jews(and rightly so in those days). The bible is culture, folklore mixed in with some history, very dependent on the time and place(s) it was written.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
oh boy... another person who thinks there is one immutable, concrete, and unquestionable "reality" that 100% of the world should agree upon. How medieval of you...
"I don't mind the idea of Christianity, I just can't stand christians." - can't remember who... :roll:
You realize there's already an initiative to ban divorce in California?
yes. I love it... and I love how some people think the dude who started it is serious.
My favorite passage from the bible is the one in Deuteronomy where is says if my brother dies I have to marry his wife... and if I don't I have to pay the fine of one shoe.
Kinda like how conservatives think Stephen Colbert is serious too.
One thing that always bugged me too - the Bible says I can't eat shrimp, mussels, clams or lobsters, but apparently I can eat locusts (Leviticus 11:22).
Dude I am SAFE! I can't eat shellfish... hallelujah! well... I do cheat sometimes and suffer through a mild allergic reaction. Maybe that'll at least get me there via a short stint in purgatory.
Pun intended?
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Makes me wonder how the women who follow the Bible literally get through their days, I mean, sheesh:
"When a woman has a discharge of blood, which is her regular discharge from her body, she shall be in her impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening." -- Leviticus 15:19-20
My ex GF would have thrown a fit if I had to avoid her while she was on her period... I'd have slept on the couch for a month.
and even better:
"When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand." -- Deuteronomy 25:11-12
So basically, if I fight with my friend, and his wife breaks up the fight by grabbing my crotch, she loses her hand? Is kicking me in the crotch OK then?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100105/ap_on_sc/us_sci_hubble_photo
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Sticking with the Programmer/Program analogy... God's Beta version of Man was a Monkey (Release 1, v.1.00)... and we are the ongoing results of the upgrades using the programming language of Evolution and represent Monkey v.7.3.2.4?
And the Reference Manual, is actually 1,410 years old... unless you include the Old Reference Manual... that has the chapter that explains how the program was created... gets dismissed as old COBAL rules and no longer pertains to us.
...
As for Jesus... I'll give you His life here on Earth... but, His resurrection... that requires a leap of faith. The same way a Scientologist will take the leap of faith regarding L.Ron Hubbard's words. I like the message of Jesus and the lessons He teaches us... but, I'm not laying all my mistakes on His back. i made those mistakes... I'll accept them as mine as well as the responsibilities that came along with them.
Again... I am happy you have faith.. sometimes I wish i had something to believe in, too. But for right now... Christianity, Scientology, Islam... they're all the same to me... and not for me.
Hail, Hail!!!
that means we were all created out of incest
fucking nasty