god didn't write the king james version, which replaced other versions at that time and is still a widely accepted version among christianity.
In January 1604, King James I of England convened the Hampton Court Conference where a new English version was conceived in response to the perceived problems of the earlier translations as detected by the Puritans, a faction within the Church of England.[7]
James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy. The translation was by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.
Instructions were given to the translators that were intended to limit the Puritan influence on this new translation. The Bishop of London added a qualification that the translators would add no marginal notes (which had been an issue in the Geneva Bible). King James cited two passages in the Geneva translation where he found the marginal notes offensive:[25] Exodus 1:17, where the Geneva Bible had commended the example of civil disobedience showed by the Hebrew midwives; and also II Chronicles 15:16, where the Geneva Bible had criticized King Asa for not having executed his idolatrous grandmother, Queen Maachah. Further, the King gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology of the Church of England. Certain Greek and Hebrew words were to be translated in a manner that reflected the traditional usage of the church. For example, old ecclesiastical words such as the word "church" were to be retained and not to be translated as "congregation". The new translation would reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and traditional beliefs about ordained clergy.
so, is that really the word of god or the word of those in power?
they didn't like some of the messages so they changed it, NOT god
sounds like another scheme of the enemy to stray those from God/Jesus' teachings. God and Satan both add influence to a mans decision. Jesus said test everything and ask the Father and not rely on me. Thats where many christians and non believers alike fail. They take the bible to literally or take certain instances and only give those reverance.
so are you saying to not believe the bible because it has been corrupted?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
One thing that's bothered me though about religion is how religious people ALWAYS try to push their faith on non religious people, yet non religous people don't try to push anything on them, at least that's always happened in my lifetime. I think the next step for mankind will be the real acceptance of all faiths and races.
Not true. Look at the heap of people on here in argument against. The shoe fits both feet. From my side it would seem that the opposition is greater.
Most religious people who are truely saved by christ's teaching were the non religious people before they came to know him. Granted many fail at understanding the right way to do go about it. All they are doing is trying share what they were given. Dont take such offense to it. Wheres that john lennon love when they try to convey to you what they've experienced? People put up a wall of hate at the mention of God.
In January 1604, King James I of England convened the Hampton Court Conference where a new English version was conceived in response to the perceived problems of the earlier translations as detected by the Puritans, a faction within the Church of England.[7]
James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy. The translation was by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.
Instructions were given to the translators that were intended to limit the Puritan influence on this new translation. The Bishop of London added a qualification that the translators would add no marginal notes (which had been an issue in the Geneva Bible). King James cited two passages in the Geneva translation where he found the marginal notes offensive:[25] Exodus 1:17, where the Geneva Bible had commended the example of civil disobedience showed by the Hebrew midwives; and also II Chronicles 15:16, where the Geneva Bible had criticized King Asa for not having executed his idolatrous grandmother, Queen Maachah. Further, the King gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology of the Church of England. Certain Greek and Hebrew words were to be translated in a manner that reflected the traditional usage of the church. For example, old ecclesiastical words such as the word "church" were to be retained and not to be translated as "congregation". The new translation would reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and traditional beliefs about ordained clergy.
so are you saying to not believe the bible because it has been corrupted?
I'm saying test the bible through prayer and meditation. God will provide the truths.
I'm saying test the bible through prayer and meditation. God will provide the truths.
so then how do you know it's YOUR god? how do you know it isn't Buddha or Mohamed? how do you know they aren't all the same god but with different names? what if this 'MY god is the only true god' stuff is your devil trying to separate people and cultures or those in power trying to keep their power?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
oh boy... another person who thinks there is one immutable, concrete, and unquestionable "reality" that 100% of the world should agree upon. How medieval of you...
"I don't mind the idea of Christianity, I just can't stand christians." - can't remember who... :roll:
What about Muslims, Hindus and so on? What about about what they teach? Can you stand them?
Some people have no problem bashing Christians or denying Jesus, it's a shame. I feel sorry for you.
There is only one way and thats throught Jesus.
actually, the Koran says if you encounter a nonbeliever or someone with different beliefs as long as they are a good person treat them as you would a Muslim...does the christian bible say that? i doubt king james and those in power would approve of such a message or if it did they changed it like they changed congregation to church, rape to lie with....
hell, the Koran even mentions Jesus, though, only as a prophet of god, not the son of god but on another hand according to christianity we are all the children of god, right? maybe christians are taking the son of god thing too lieterally?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
One thing that's bothered me though about religion is how religious people ALWAYS try to push their faith on non religious people, yet non religous people don't try to push anything on them, at least that's always happened in my lifetime. I think the next step for mankind will be the real acceptance of all faiths and races.
Not true. Look at the heap of people on here in argument against. The shoe fits both feet. From my side it would seem that the opposition is greater.
Most religious people who are truely saved by christ's teaching were the non religious people before they came to know him. Granted many fail at understanding the right way to do go about it. All they are doing is trying share what they were given. Dont take such offense to it. Wheres that john lennon love when they try to convey to you what they've experienced? People put up a wall of hate at the mention of God.
I can't speak for everyone, but people don't take offense to the message, we take offense to the arrogant stance that many christians take. The "let me save you,too" BS. The "I know the truth, and one day, you will too". I don't need saving, and I can be grounded enough that NONE of us know the truth. NONE. ZILCH. There is no knowledge in faith. Have faith in knowledge.
the opposition is greater? 95% of the world believes in God and you think the 5% who don't are a greater force? The church is duping you into believing there is actually a cause out there for you. When you have no cause, you lose your purpose, and heaven forbid the church loses its purpose.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
They take the bible to literally or take certain instances and only give those reverance.
this is what I find so hypocritical. how can you possibly, not only believe "the book", but also purport to know which passages are to be taken literally and which ones are mere metaphor? you can't have your cake and eat it too. either you believe it, or you don't.
And to answer your initial question "Why is it so unbelievable?", it is unbelieveable that we, as a species are so ignorant, arrogant, and weak, yes, I said weak, that we basically take everything that was "learned" and thought to be known as recently as 50 or 60 years ago, and called it false. Yet, we take this book, which was written 2000 years ago, by several different people, has evolved several different times, in a time where they thought any number of laughable beliefs, and say "yeah, but this book is good".
Why don't we still believe that the earth is flat?
Why don't we still believe that the universe revolves around the Earth?
Google the phrase "once believed to be...", and you'll come up with millions of scenarios where something which was once thought to be factual was in fact false.
Why do we hold up the Bible as still believable? Because we NEED to. People need faith to get by. If they don't think there's an afterlife, they see no point in this life. And on and on we could go.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I didnt say I didnt believe in the book. I said I test it. We are allowed to question and test God.
A desire to share what they've attained isnt such a bad thing. I agree many christian believers views or methods screw up the true message.
If there is no purpose to life, meaning we are just here by random chance with no purpose, then why is evil such a bad thing? Why cant we have wars? Why cant I kill my neighbor for strealing something from me or have sex with his wife because I want to? Why cant I kill millions of animals to help my race survive? Why cant I just live and be a drug addict and have fun without any consequence? A purposeless life is more silly to me than the one I've been presented.
Why do people that dont believe in God hate him so much? Why does it offend one in such a way that they think me to be silly?
If there is no purpose to life, meaning we are just here by random chance with no purpose, then why is evil such a bad thing? Why cant we have wars? Why cant I kill my neighbor for strealing something from me or have sex with his wife because I want to? Why cant I kill millions of animals to help my race survive? Why cant I just live and be a drug addict and have fun without any consequence? A purposeless life is more silly to me than the one I've been presented.
I don't need the fear/belief in god to know what is morally right, or at least what I think is sound judgment. Sure, the ten commandments are a great basis for a moral code, but that doesn't mean I think they originated from some divine being. Again, these are hand me down stories.
Why do people that dont believe in God hate him so much? Why does it offend one in such a way that they think me to be silly?
I don't hate God. Non-belief does not equal hatred. And I also don't think you are silly for believing in something that I don't. We can't all be like-minded: Earth would be a very boring place to live.
The only thing that offends me about some believers is when they claim that they "just know" their way is the only right way. That attitude has been the basis for millions of deaths, war and misery on this planet for thousands of years now and it's time we move past that. No-one knows ANYTHING about God or the afterlife for sure. Period. There is no discussion to be had there. Your faith is a guess.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
They take the bible to literally or take certain instances and only give those reverance.
this is what I find so hypocritical. how can you possibly, not only believe "the book", but also purport to know which passages are to be taken literally and which ones are mere metaphor? you can't have your cake and eat it too. either you believe it, or you don't.
And to answer your initial question "Why is it so unbelievable?", it is unbelieveable that we, as a species are so ignorant, arrogant, and weak, yes, I said weak, that we basically take everything that was "learned" and thought to be known as recently as 50 or 60 years ago, and called it false. Yet, we take this book, which was written 2000 years ago, by several different people, has evolved several different times, in a time where they thought any number of laughable beliefs, and say "yeah, but this book is good".
Why do we hold up the Bible as still believable? Because we NEED to. People need faith to get by. If they don't think there's an afterlife, they see no point in this life. And on and on we could go.
And a 100 years from now things we now know will beconsidered false. Even Darwin said it himself that if he evolved from this simplistic life form why should he believe the thoughts that he is having about his origination.
No one needs faith to get by. You dont do you? So everyone isnt as smart as you then is what you are saying? The bible teaches that all men have sinned which separates them from God. So you're saying you have no sin in your life and the line between good and evil starts and stops with you? Its a much easier life to live withouth believing. Why do so many choose to believe if its much easier on the side of the opposition?
If there is no purpose to life, meaning we are just here by random chance with no purpose, then why is evil such a bad thing? Why cant we have wars? Why cant I kill my neighbor for strealing something from me or have sex with his wife because I want to? Why cant I kill millions of animals to help my race survive? Why cant I just live and be a drug addict and have fun without any consequence? A purposeless life is more silly to me than the one I've been presented.
I don't need the fear/belief in god to know what is morally right, or at least what I think is sound judgment. Sure, the ten commandments are a great basis for a moral code, but that doesn't mean I think they originated from some divine being. Again, these are hand me down stories.
Why do people that dont believe in God hate him so much? Why does it offend one in such a way that they think me to be silly?
I don't hate God. Non-belief does not equal hatred. And I also don't think you are silly for believing in something that I don't. We can't all be like-minded: Earth would be a very boring place to live.
The only thing that offends me about some believers is when they claim that they "just know" their way is the only right way. That attitude has been the basis for millions of deaths, war and misery on this planet for thousands of years now and it's time we move past that. No-one knows ANYTHING about God or the afterlife for sure. Period. There is no discussion to be had there. Your faith is a guess.
What is the point of morals if there is no purpose? Why cant i just do what I want because your morals dont have to apply to me?
How many times do I have to say it that most christians have a wrong idea of how to go about their faith.
God allows evil and wars and death to gauge the opposition. If the world was good and gravy we wouldnt be able to recognize our sinful nature that separates us from God. He fights fire with fire. The sin in this world reflects our own sinful nature so that we may see it. One cant learn courage unless faced with adversity and fear. You cant learn sin unless you are tested by its nature. God wants to fix the problem at the heart of the matter. He cant just go around forgiving us for our true nature. What child learns what is right or wrong by enabling?
Do you not think you have sin in your life? You dont have jealousy, envy, anger towards others? So the line between good and evil starts bellow you? You are perfect?
Its a much easier life to live withouth believing. Why do so many choose to believe if its much easier on the side of the opposition?
100% not true.
Elaborate on that. Why not?
If I was a believer I would have a whole community to belong to for support. Some people wouldn't look at me like I was crazy when I tell them I don't believe in God and I don't go to temple. And in other parts of the world, my belief, or lack thereof, would be grounds for being killed. Don't for a second think that being a non-believer is the easy way out.
(Edit): I would also have something to pray to when life was not going my way that I could find solace in. I would have comfort in "knowing" God was behind me.
Post edited by BinFrog on
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
What is the point of morals if there is no purpose? Why cant i just do what I want because your morals dont have to apply to me?
Ah yes, this old argument. Morals don't need a purpose. If you ask 1000 people what is right and what is wrong, they will agree on 95% of the issues. I don't need to live a good life in hopes of making it to some after party. I try to live a good life because it is the right thing to do. Golden rule.
The sin in this world reflects our own sinful nature so that we may see it. One can't learn courage unless faced with adversity and fear. You cant learn sin unless you are tested by its nature. God wants to fix the problem at the heart of the matter. He cant just go around forgiving us for our true nature. What child learns what is right or wrong by enabling?
So you learn ourage when your dad or son dies in battle? You learn courage through losing a mother to cancer? Please.
Do you not think you have sin in your life? You dont have jealousy, envy, anger towards others? So the line between good and evil starts bellow you? You are perfect?
I am far from perfect. No-one is perfect. By what basis? Who knows, yet we all sort of do now don't we?
I am no moral guide. I think I live a meaningful existence: I've never killed anyone, I try not to hurt people, I lend a hand when I can, I donate money from time to time when my budget allows, I like being an ear for friends and family who need support. I surround myself with a great support system of friends and family. Of course I have jealousy and anger and envy. I am human. I don't need the fear of God and the afterlife to make these any more or less real, or any more or less relevant. Do I "sin"? Depends on what sinning actually is. Do I "sin" in the eyes of a God? Not in my view.
Having to ultimately report to a deity makes sinning/crime/morality easier to enforce upon people...as was done thousands of years ago when organized religion came to light. Religion was used to make people follow a code of ethics. This is an unbelievably simple concept that believers like to brush over.
Look, I have no problems with your belief system. You seem like you are passionate about this stuff and I appreciate that.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
If I was a believer I would have a whole community to belong to for support. Some people wouldn't look at me like I was crazy when I tell them I don't believe in God and I don't go to temple. And in other parts of the world, my belief, or lack thereof, would be grounds for being killed. Don't for a second think that being a non-believer is the easy way out.
(Edit): I would also have something to pray to when life was not going my way that I could find solace in. I would have comfort in "knowing" God was behind me.
But these things hold no validity to you so that argument is invalid. Why do you care about "some people" if they are infact to you "crazy" as well? Its easier because you answer to no one on your sinful nature. You can do as you please. Sure you have hard times just like a believer but you dont have to look at those times as a lesson being taught because they infact have no purpose. The world is yours if you are a non believer. You belong to it.
Its easier because you answer to no one on your sinful nature. You can do as you please. Sure you have hard times just like a believer but you dont have to look at those times as a lesson being taught because they infact have no purpose. The world is yours if you are a non believer. You belong to it.
No, I can't "do as I please". We live in a society, with rules, and I don't need the fear of god to make me act in the right way. That's such a copout. The world is not "mine" just because there is no higher power that I ultimately report to. Believers don't seem to understand this: It is possible to lead a good life without doing so for a deity or the afterlife. It's not a hard concept: I live a good life because I like life and find it beautiful. I don't kill because killing is wrong. I don't need the fear of hell to make me believe this way. I "get" life. We get one shot at this, and I don't want to spend my life in misery or as a sloth. The "greater good" makes sense to me and I act as such.
Post edited by BinFrog on
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
If I was a believer I would have a whole community to belong to for support. Some people wouldn't look at me like I was crazy when I tell them I don't believe in God and I don't go to temple. And in other parts of the world, my belief, or lack thereof, would be grounds for being killed. Don't for a second think that being a non-believer is the easy way out.
(Edit): I would also have something to pray to when life was not going my way that I could find solace in. I would have comfort in "knowing" God was behind me.
But these things hold no validity to you so that argument is invalid. Why do you care about "some people" if they are infact to you "crazy" as well? Its easier because you answer to no one on your sinful nature. You can do as you please. Sure you have hard times just like a believer but you dont have to look at those times as a lesson being taught because they infact have no purpose. The world is yours if you are a non believer. You belong to it.
just because someone chooses not to subscribe to organized religion and this concept of an old white guy with a beard sittin up in the clouds doesn't mean they don't believe in being decent to their fellow wo/man or that there's some sort of balance, karma or purpose to life
if your god made this planet for us why do we treat it so poorly? it's like spoiled brats who have some false sense of entitlement
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Ah yes, this old argument. Morals don't need a purpose. If you ask 1000 people what is right and what is wrong, they will agree on 95% of the issues. I don't need to live a good life in hopes of making it to some after party. I try to live a good life because it is the right thing to do. Golden rule.
Still why is it the right thing to do if there is no purpose to life? We are made in His image. Do you have kids? If we dont correct them they never learn.
The sin in this world reflects our own sinful nature so that we may see it. One can't learn courage unless faced with adversity and fear. You cant learn sin unless you are tested by its nature. God wants to fix the problem at the heart of the matter. He cant just go around forgiving us for our true nature. What child learns what is right or wrong by enabling?
So you learn ourage when your dad or son dies in battle? You learn courage through losing a mother to cancer? Please.
You learn something.
I am far from perfect. No-one is perfect. By what basis? Who knows, yet we all sort of do now don't we?
I am no moral guide. I think I live a meaningful existence: I've never killed anyone, I try not to hurt people, I lend a hand when I can, I donate money from time to time when my budget allows, I like being an ear for friends and family who need support. I surround myself with a great support system of friends and family. Of course I have jealousy and anger and envy. I am human. I don't need the fear of God and the afterlife to make these any more or less real, or any more or less relevant. Do I "sin"? Depends on what sinning actually is. Do I "sin" in the eyes of a God? Not in my view.
Having to ultimately report to a deity makes sinning/crime/morality easier to enforce upon people...as was done thousands of years ago when organized religion came to light. Religion was used to make people follow a code of ethics. This is an unbelievably simple concept that believers like to brush over.
Look, I have no problems with your belief system. You seem like you are passionate about this stuff and I appreciate that.
[/quote]
So by not doing wrong that makes your life meaningful?
Yes you do good but you are still a sinner judged not by man but by your creator. I agree that in the past the churchs have used it to control people but that doesnt make it false. I doubt religion but i dont doubt the spiritual and God. Anywhere man is in play there is room for error. With God there is no error. People die in your family to try and bring light to God, bad things happen in your life due to mans sinful nature. Thats all Christ taught.
1.we are sinners
2 . how to live morally sound
3. we have to accept his sacrifice to redeem the sin
I'm merely bringing cause to the debate. I completely respect and know where you are coming from having been you at one time in my life.
You cant doubt the intangible until its been shown to your eyes. Thats why many believers have a revelation or an opening of their eyes. Their subjective experiences in life and Gods truths begin to merge and it becomes so clear.
Do you have kids? If we dont correct them they never learn.
I have one on the way, and he/she will learn what is right and what is wrong. My children will be exposed to religion and they are free to make their own decision, but I am not having a religious household.
I'm merely bringing cause to the debate. I completely respect and know where you are coming from having been you at one time in my life.
No, I guarantee you have never shared my beliefs nor have you "been" me at any point. By the way you are talking I know so. You may have questioned your faith at some point and even veered away from religion for a time. I started down this path a good 17-18 years ago and have solidified it more and more at time goes on. It's discussions like this that help me realize I've made the right choice, at least for my life.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Why do you feel like you need someone to answer to? Can't you just behave yourself without an invisible man threatening to torture you?
Sure I can but then my life still has no purpose. I need a purpose because I believe that in life everything has a purpose. That nothing is just random chance. That there are gears at work in every nano second.
I never could understand God until I had a child of my own. In that creation of life you see the love that God has for us. My son was born for a reason and I see the reason.
Why do you feel like you need someone to answer to? Can't you just behave yourself without an invisible man threatening to torture you?
Sure I can but then my life still has no purpose. I need a purpose because I believe that in life everything has a purpose. That nothing is just random chance. That there are gears at work in every nano second.
I never could understand God until I had a child of my own. In that creation of life you see the love that God has for us. My son was born for a reason and I see the reason.
So god created Osama bin Laden for a purpose? got it....makes perfect sense
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Do you have kids? If we dont correct them they never learn.
I have one on the way, and he/she will learn what is right and what is wrong. My children will be exposed to religion and they are free to make their own decision, but I am not having a religious household.
I'm merely bringing cause to the debate. I completely respect and know where you are coming from having been you at one time in my life.
No, I guarantee you have never shared my beliefs nor have you "been" me at any point. By the way you are talking I know so. You may have questioned your faith at some point and even veered away from religion for a time. I started down this path a good 17-18 years ago and have solidified it more and more at time goes on. It's discussions like this that help me realize I've made the right choice, at least for my life.
When she gets here look at her and tell me that something didnt create her... being you, and nothing she does will make you not be tied to her in some way whether you love or hate her.
I may not have experienced the same things you have but I am in the same ballpark on the same playing field.
Why do you feel like you need someone to answer to? Can't you just behave yourself without an invisible man threatening to torture you?
Sure I can but then my life still has no purpose. I need a purpose because I believe that in life everything has a purpose. That nothing is just random chance. That there are gears at work in every nano second.
I never could understand God until I had a child of my own. In that creation of life you see the love that God has for us. My son was born for a reason and I see the reason.
So god created Osama bin Laden for a purpose? got it....makes perfect sense
God created life, man flourished.
The evil in man made Osama what he is not God.
Why do you feel like you need someone to answer to? Can't you just behave yourself without an invisible man threatening to torture you?
Sure I can but then my life still has no purpose. I need a purpose because I believe that in life everything has a purpose. That nothing is just random chance. That there are gears at work in every nano second.
I never could understand God until I had a child of my own. In that creation of life you see the love that God has for us. My son was born for a reason and I see the reason.
So god created Osama bin Laden for a purpose? got it....makes perfect sense
and all those kids who get raped and/or murdered were all some part of his divine plan...the kids parents and family may not realize it....ingrates
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
So god created Osama bin Laden for a purpose? got it....makes perfect sense
and all those kids who get raped and/or murdered were all some part of his divine plan...the kids parents and family may not realize it....ingrates
God is Light = Good
Satan is Darkness = Evil
God created = man took the reigns
He still works his hand in it just as the devil does.
You look at the sun and see the light that it causes. you look at man in the sun and you see a shadow. What do you think that shadow is? Its the absence of light. The absence of God. God is not the cause of evil but God uses the evil things that happen to teach lessons in a divine way.
Comments
so are you saying to not believe the bible because it has been corrupted?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Not true. Look at the heap of people on here in argument against. The shoe fits both feet. From my side it would seem that the opposition is greater.
Most religious people who are truely saved by christ's teaching were the non religious people before they came to know him. Granted many fail at understanding the right way to do go about it. All they are doing is trying share what they were given. Dont take such offense to it. Wheres that john lennon love when they try to convey to you what they've experienced? People put up a wall of hate at the mention of God.
I'm saying test the bible through prayer and meditation. God will provide the truths.
so then how do you know it's YOUR god? how do you know it isn't Buddha or Mohamed? how do you know they aren't all the same god but with different names? what if this 'MY god is the only true god' stuff is your devil trying to separate people and cultures or those in power trying to keep their power?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
actually, the Koran says if you encounter a nonbeliever or someone with different beliefs as long as they are a good person treat them as you would a Muslim...does the christian bible say that? i doubt king james and those in power would approve of such a message or if it did they changed it like they changed congregation to church, rape to lie with....
hell, the Koran even mentions Jesus, though, only as a prophet of god, not the son of god but on another hand according to christianity we are all the children of god, right? maybe christians are taking the son of god thing too lieterally?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
NICE!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I can't speak for everyone, but people don't take offense to the message, we take offense to the arrogant stance that many christians take. The "let me save you,too" BS. The "I know the truth, and one day, you will too". I don't need saving, and I can be grounded enough that NONE of us know the truth. NONE. ZILCH. There is no knowledge in faith. Have faith in knowledge.
the opposition is greater? 95% of the world believes in God and you think the 5% who don't are a greater force? The church is duping you into believing there is actually a cause out there for you. When you have no cause, you lose your purpose, and heaven forbid the church loses its purpose.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
this is what I find so hypocritical. how can you possibly, not only believe "the book", but also purport to know which passages are to be taken literally and which ones are mere metaphor? you can't have your cake and eat it too. either you believe it, or you don't.
And to answer your initial question "Why is it so unbelievable?", it is unbelieveable that we, as a species are so ignorant, arrogant, and weak, yes, I said weak, that we basically take everything that was "learned" and thought to be known as recently as 50 or 60 years ago, and called it false. Yet, we take this book, which was written 2000 years ago, by several different people, has evolved several different times, in a time where they thought any number of laughable beliefs, and say "yeah, but this book is good".
Why don't we still believe that the earth is flat?
Why don't we still believe that the universe revolves around the Earth?
Google the phrase "once believed to be...", and you'll come up with millions of scenarios where something which was once thought to be factual was in fact false.
Why do we hold up the Bible as still believable? Because we NEED to. People need faith to get by. If they don't think there's an afterlife, they see no point in this life. And on and on we could go.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I didnt say I didnt believe in the book. I said I test it. We are allowed to question and test God.
A desire to share what they've attained isnt such a bad thing. I agree many christian believers views or methods screw up the true message.
If there is no purpose to life, meaning we are just here by random chance with no purpose, then why is evil such a bad thing? Why cant we have wars? Why cant I kill my neighbor for strealing something from me or have sex with his wife because I want to? Why cant I kill millions of animals to help my race survive? Why cant I just live and be a drug addict and have fun without any consequence? A purposeless life is more silly to me than the one I've been presented.
Why do people that dont believe in God hate him so much? Why does it offend one in such a way that they think me to be silly?
I don't need the fear/belief in god to know what is morally right, or at least what I think is sound judgment. Sure, the ten commandments are a great basis for a moral code, but that doesn't mean I think they originated from some divine being. Again, these are hand me down stories.
I don't hate God. Non-belief does not equal hatred. And I also don't think you are silly for believing in something that I don't. We can't all be like-minded: Earth would be a very boring place to live.
The only thing that offends me about some believers is when they claim that they "just know" their way is the only right way. That attitude has been the basis for millions of deaths, war and misery on this planet for thousands of years now and it's time we move past that. No-one knows ANYTHING about God or the afterlife for sure. Period. There is no discussion to be had there. Your faith is a guess.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
And a 100 years from now things we now know will beconsidered false. Even Darwin said it himself that if he evolved from this simplistic life form why should he believe the thoughts that he is having about his origination.
No one needs faith to get by. You dont do you? So everyone isnt as smart as you then is what you are saying? The bible teaches that all men have sinned which separates them from God. So you're saying you have no sin in your life and the line between good and evil starts and stops with you? Its a much easier life to live withouth believing. Why do so many choose to believe if its much easier on the side of the opposition?
100% not true.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
What is the point of morals if there is no purpose? Why cant i just do what I want because your morals dont have to apply to me?
How many times do I have to say it that most christians have a wrong idea of how to go about their faith.
God allows evil and wars and death to gauge the opposition. If the world was good and gravy we wouldnt be able to recognize our sinful nature that separates us from God. He fights fire with fire. The sin in this world reflects our own sinful nature so that we may see it. One cant learn courage unless faced with adversity and fear. You cant learn sin unless you are tested by its nature. God wants to fix the problem at the heart of the matter. He cant just go around forgiving us for our true nature. What child learns what is right or wrong by enabling?
Do you not think you have sin in your life? You dont have jealousy, envy, anger towards others? So the line between good and evil starts bellow you? You are perfect?
Elaborate on that. Why not?
If I was a believer I would have a whole community to belong to for support. Some people wouldn't look at me like I was crazy when I tell them I don't believe in God and I don't go to temple. And in other parts of the world, my belief, or lack thereof, would be grounds for being killed. Don't for a second think that being a non-believer is the easy way out.
(Edit): I would also have something to pray to when life was not going my way that I could find solace in. I would have comfort in "knowing" God was behind me.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Ah yes, this old argument. Morals don't need a purpose. If you ask 1000 people what is right and what is wrong, they will agree on 95% of the issues. I don't need to live a good life in hopes of making it to some after party. I try to live a good life because it is the right thing to do. Golden rule.
So you learn ourage when your dad or son dies in battle? You learn courage through losing a mother to cancer? Please.
I am far from perfect. No-one is perfect. By what basis? Who knows, yet we all sort of do now don't we?
I am no moral guide. I think I live a meaningful existence: I've never killed anyone, I try not to hurt people, I lend a hand when I can, I donate money from time to time when my budget allows, I like being an ear for friends and family who need support. I surround myself with a great support system of friends and family. Of course I have jealousy and anger and envy. I am human. I don't need the fear of God and the afterlife to make these any more or less real, or any more or less relevant. Do I "sin"? Depends on what sinning actually is. Do I "sin" in the eyes of a God? Not in my view.
Having to ultimately report to a deity makes sinning/crime/morality easier to enforce upon people...as was done thousands of years ago when organized religion came to light. Religion was used to make people follow a code of ethics. This is an unbelievably simple concept that believers like to brush over.
Look, I have no problems with your belief system. You seem like you are passionate about this stuff and I appreciate that.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
But these things hold no validity to you so that argument is invalid. Why do you care about "some people" if they are infact to you "crazy" as well? Its easier because you answer to no one on your sinful nature. You can do as you please. Sure you have hard times just like a believer but you dont have to look at those times as a lesson being taught because they infact have no purpose. The world is yours if you are a non believer. You belong to it.
No, I can't "do as I please". We live in a society, with rules, and I don't need the fear of god to make me act in the right way. That's such a copout. The world is not "mine" just because there is no higher power that I ultimately report to. Believers don't seem to understand this: It is possible to lead a good life without doing so for a deity or the afterlife. It's not a hard concept: I live a good life because I like life and find it beautiful. I don't kill because killing is wrong. I don't need the fear of hell to make me believe this way. I "get" life. We get one shot at this, and I don't want to spend my life in misery or as a sloth. The "greater good" makes sense to me and I act as such.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
just because someone chooses not to subscribe to organized religion and this concept of an old white guy with a beard sittin up in the clouds doesn't mean they don't believe in being decent to their fellow wo/man or that there's some sort of balance, karma or purpose to life
if your god made this planet for us why do we treat it so poorly? it's like spoiled brats who have some false sense of entitlement
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Still why is it the right thing to do if there is no purpose to life? We are made in His image. Do you have kids? If we dont correct them they never learn.
You learn something.
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So by not doing wrong that makes your life meaningful?
Yes you do good but you are still a sinner judged not by man but by your creator. I agree that in the past the churchs have used it to control people but that doesnt make it false. I doubt religion but i dont doubt the spiritual and God. Anywhere man is in play there is room for error. With God there is no error. People die in your family to try and bring light to God, bad things happen in your life due to mans sinful nature. Thats all Christ taught.
1.we are sinners
2 . how to live morally sound
3. we have to accept his sacrifice to redeem the sin
I'm merely bringing cause to the debate. I completely respect and know where you are coming from having been you at one time in my life.
You cant doubt the intangible until its been shown to your eyes. Thats why many believers have a revelation or an opening of their eyes. Their subjective experiences in life and Gods truths begin to merge and it becomes so clear.
I have one on the way, and he/she will learn what is right and what is wrong. My children will be exposed to religion and they are free to make their own decision, but I am not having a religious household.
No, I guarantee you have never shared my beliefs nor have you "been" me at any point. By the way you are talking I know so. You may have questioned your faith at some point and even veered away from religion for a time. I started down this path a good 17-18 years ago and have solidified it more and more at time goes on. It's discussions like this that help me realize I've made the right choice, at least for my life.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Sure I can but then my life still has no purpose. I need a purpose because I believe that in life everything has a purpose. That nothing is just random chance. That there are gears at work in every nano second.
I never could understand God until I had a child of my own. In that creation of life you see the love that God has for us. My son was born for a reason and I see the reason.
So god created Osama bin Laden for a purpose? got it....makes perfect sense
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
When she gets here look at her and tell me that something didnt create her... being you, and nothing she does will make you not be tied to her in some way whether you love or hate her.
I may not have experienced the same things you have but I am in the same ballpark on the same playing field.
God created life, man flourished.
The evil in man made Osama what he is not God.
and all those kids who get raped and/or murdered were all some part of his divine plan...the kids parents and family may not realize it....ingrates
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
no man you said he was born with a purpose....his purpose is apparent (unfortunately)
PRAISE!!! THANK YOU JESUS!!!
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
God is Light = Good
Satan is Darkness = Evil
God created = man took the reigns
He still works his hand in it just as the devil does.
You look at the sun and see the light that it causes. you look at man in the sun and you see a shadow. What do you think that shadow is? Its the absence of light. The absence of God. God is not the cause of evil but God uses the evil things that happen to teach lessons in a divine way.
and he strayed from his purpose and chose evil or the world.