***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Some interesting reaction on MLBTR

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/b ... tions.html

Seems like the consensus is that the Mariners made out the best, the Phillies did well and the Jays got robbed.

Felix and Lee in the same rotation is scary

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Some interesting reaction on MLBTR

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/b ... tions.html

Seems like the consensus is that the Mariners made out the best, the Phillies did well and the Jays got robbed.

Felix and Lee in the same rotation is scary

Yeah, that's gonna be nasty. Snell's not atrocious either.

I think the AL West is gonna be sexy next year.

Yeah man, for sure. 3 legit teams. The Angels need some pitching though.

Left-hander Cliff Lee's agent stepped forward Tuesday to set the record straight: His client did not force his way out of Philadelphia by overreaching in contract negotiations.

Mike & Mike in the Morning

ESPN.com senior MLB writer Jayson Stark says that the Roy Halladay-Cliff Lee deal isn't done yet, but signs point to it happening in the next few days. Stark also explains why the Phillies made this deal and talks about the Red Sox signing John Lackey.

More Podcasts »

Lee, one of baseball premier starting pitchers, is on his way to Seattle as part of a blockbuster trade that will bring Roy Halladay to the Phillies. While Halladay has reportedly agreed to a guaranteed three-year, $60 million contract extension with two vesting options, numerous reports said the Phillies pursued the trade after failing to make any headway in contract talks with Lee.

Agent Darek Braunecker disputed the characterization of the talks, telling ESPN.com that he had three brief discussions with the Phillies "for a total of about an hour." Braunecker said length of contract and total dollars were discussed, but that he and Lee did not stake out a position or give the team an indication that Lee was unwilling to sign a long-term deal.

"At no point did we make any sort of financial demands," Braunecker said. "The negotiations were in the very preliminary stages. As recently as [Monday], both sides would have characterized the discussions as encouraging. Unfortunately, something transpired that we had no control over that dictated this move.

"What's being portrayed in the media is completely inaccurate -- that we presented something or the club thought our position was going to preclude them from being able to do a deal. We didn't get far enough down the road in negotiations to really [explore] the details."

Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. didn't immediately respond to an e-mail seeking comment. Halladay was in Philadelphia on Tuesday undergoing a physical, and signs point toward the trade becoming official by Wednesday.

Lee, 31, made a big impact in Philadelphia after coming over from Cleveland by trade in late July. He was 7-4 with a 3.39 ERA for the Phillies in August and September, and went 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA in the postseason. With Halladay on the verge of a new contract, Lee, Boston's Josh Beckett and Atlanta's Javier Vazquez will be the top free-agent starters on the market next winter.

Lee went 22-3 with a 2.54 ERA in Cleveland to win the American League Cy Young Award in 2008. Now he'll spend his free agent "platform year" back in the AL with Seattle.

"All I can say is, Cliff really enjoyed Philadelphia," Braunecker said. "Since the end of the postseason, his intent was to remain there beyond next season. That's been the goal. Unfortunately, some circumstances transpired that we couldn't control."

Jerry Crasnick covers Major League Baseball for ESPN.com and ESPN Insider.

Lee's agent was just on with Mikey Miss

He said nothing is done yet and hasn't been told other wise

I hate to see Lee go...he was a friggin stud in the playoffs

This self imposed salary cap is getting annoying

We're not the Yank-mees but I see no problem with having Lee here another year and adding Halladay

Stop crying poor mouth Phillies the place has been sold-out and we have back to back runs to the WS

If you wanna play with the big boys you have to spend with the big boys you can't have it both ways

chromiam wrote:

Phantom Pain wrote:

Lee's agent was just on with Mikey Miss

He said nothing is done yet and hasn't been told other wise

I hate to see Lee go...he was a friggin stud in the playoffs

This self imposed salary cap is getting annoying

We're not the Yank-mees but I see no problem with having Lee here another year and adding Halladay

Stop crying poor mouth Phillies the place has been sold-out and we have back to back runs to the WS

If you wanna play with the big boys you have to spend with the big boys you can't have it both ways

Here's my problem with this line of thought: at some point the revenue from the ballpark and merchandise is going to level out or drop off. Now if the Phils say fuck it lets spend $160 mil this year, then turn around and can only spend $140 next year, thereby having to forego resigning or renegotiating someone's contract (J-Roll, Werth, whoever) then what will the fans say??? I mean the Phils are looking to pick up a top 3 pitcher in ALL of baseball and lock him up for at least 4 years... that's HUGE. With the lineup they have and the offense the team can put up over the next couple of seasons (until some contracts come up for renewal, Howard's at the top of that list) I see no reason to complain other than the sheer fact that as fans, we're greedy.

But I'd rather have Doc and Hamels for a couple of years with this offensive team, then to have Doc, Hamels and Lee with it costing a position player or two next year. I could just see what would happen if the Phils inflate their salary threshold this year and then pull back abit over the next two years before Howard becomes a FA, and then not be able to resign him... the fans would go nuts.

The most sense I've heard here today.

Phantom Pain wrote:

Lee's agent was just on with Mikey Miss

He said nothing is done yet and hasn't been told other wise

I hate to see Lee go...he was a friggin stud in the playoffs

This self imposed salary cap is getting annoying

We're not the Yank-mees but I see no problem with having Lee here another year and adding Halladay

Stop crying poor mouth Phillies the place has been sold-out and we have back to back runs to the WS

If you wanna play with the big boys you have to spend with the big boys you can't have it both ways

If we dont offer Blanton arbiration we would save close to 7million,Lee makes 9million halladay is making 15plus this yr but toronto is gonna pay 6million of his salary. If u add them 2 up the phillies would be paying roughly 18 million for lee and halladay in 2010. Next year they both will make 20 plus,so you won't pay 18mill for one yr and have them both in the staff. Sea isnt giving any players to toronto and if lee walks next year we would get 2 1st picks in the future. Seems pretty simple to me keep the 2 studs for 1 year and win another world series. Why in the world they set a 140 max cap,when if u keep the 2 you make even more money in attendance and merchandise. And the 4 lefty arguetment goes out the door because lee is a lefty and kills all hitters righty or lefty and if cole is cole from 2yrs ago then u have 3 #1 pitchers and happ and moyer.

chromiam wrote:

Phantom Pain wrote:

Lee's agent was just on with Mikey Miss

He said nothing is done yet and hasn't been told other wise

I hate to see Lee go...he was a friggin stud in the playoffs

This self imposed salary cap is getting annoying

We're not the Yank-mees but I see no problem with having Lee here another year and adding Halladay

Stop crying poor mouth Phillies the place has been sold-out and we have back to back runs to the WS

If you wanna play with the big boys you have to spend with the big boys you can't have it both ways

Here's my problem with this line of thought: at some point the revenue from the ballpark and merchandise is going to level out or drop off. Now if the Phils say fuck it lets spend $160 mil this year, then turn around and can only spend $140 next year, thereby having to forego resigning or renegotiating someone's contract (J-Roll, Werth, whoever) then what will the fans say??? I mean the Phils are looking to pick up a top 3 pitcher in ALL of baseball and lock him up for at least 4 years... that's HUGE. With the lineup they have and the offense the team can put up over the next couple of seasons (until some contracts come up for renewal, Howard's at the top of that list) I see no reason to complain other than the sheer fact that as fans, we're greedy.

But I'd rather have Doc and Hamels for a couple of years with this offensive team, then to have Doc, Hamels and Lee with it costing a position player or two next year. I could just see what would happen if the Phils inflate their salary threshold this year and then pull back abit over the next two years before Howard becomes a FA, and then not be able to resign him... the fans would go nuts.

I hear what you're saying but what IF we got another ring by keeping Lee and adding Halladay ?

Like I responded in the other post we shed some hefty cash recently I believe so $9mil for one year isn't going to kill anything

I still think we're in the same boat as needing a soild starter not a number 1 per se or bullpen help even if we trade Lee..where is that money coming from ?

Phantom Pain wrote:

Then why not keep Lee ?

You would know better than I but didn't we just shed the salaries of Eaton,Myers and Thome ?

Isn't that enought money to keep Lee here for 1 more year at $9mil ?

Myers 12 mil, Eaton's 8.8 and Jenkins 6.75 are off the books. the Phils only paid like 1.5 on Thome last year and still owe Jenkins 1.25 and Eaton 500k as well as Feliz 500k this year.

That money is already up because Howard went up 4 mil, Utley went up 4 mil, Raul went up 3, Hamels went up 2, Werth went up 5, and Madson went up 2.5. Polanco signed for 5.5 this year and when you add in the bench signings (Schneider, Gload, Castro, etc.) - the Phils have already spent the money they saved from expiring contracts.

Plus they still have to formulate a bullpen and deal with arbitration with Victorino, Blanton, Durbin and Ruiz.

The Phils are at 117 million right now without going to arb (Victorino should get around 7 and Blanton 8) and you factor in the bullpen and if you resign Eyre or Park, you are at the 140 mil mark.

jamminpearls wrote:

Phantom Pain wrote:

Lee's agent was just on with Mikey Miss

He said nothing is done yet and hasn't been told other wise

I hate to see Lee go...he was a friggin stud in the playoffs

This self imposed salary cap is getting annoying

We're not the Yank-mees but I see no problem with having Lee here another year and adding Halladay

Stop crying poor mouth Phillies the place has been sold-out and we have back to back runs to the WS

If you wanna play with the big boys you have to spend with the big boys you can't have it both ways

If we dont offer Blanton arbiration we would save close to 7million,Lee makes 9million halladay is making 15plus this yr but toronto is gonna pay 6million of his salary. If u add them 2 up the phillies would be paying roughly 18 million for lee and halladay in 2010. Next year they both will make 20 plus,so you won't pay 18mill for one yr and have them both in the staff. Sea isnt giving any players to toronto and if lee walks next year we would get 2 1st picks in the future. Seems pretty simple to me keep the 2 studs for 1 year and win another world series. Why in the world they set a 140 max cap,when if u keep the 2 you make even more money in attendance and merchandise. And the 4 lefty arguetment goes out the door because lee is a lefty and kills all hitters righty or lefty and if cole is cole from 2yrs ago then u have 3 #1 pitchers and happ and moyer.

I agree

You're looking at possibly winning 2 WS Titles in 3 years

You can't pass this up IMO

I wonder how much Gillick is involved in all this he spent time as GM in each city

Solat13 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

If we dont offer Blanton arbiration we would save close to 7million,Lee makes 9million halladay is making 15plus this yr but toronto is gonna pay 6million of his salary. If u add them 2 up the phillies would be paying roughly 18 million for lee and halladay in 2010. Next year they both will make 20 plus,so you won't pay 18mill for one yr and have them both in the staff. Sea isnt giving any players to toronto and if lee walks next year we would get 2 1st picks in the future. Seems pretty simple to me keep the 2 studs for 1 year and win another world series. Why in the world they set a 140 max cap,when if u keep the 2 you make even more money in attendance and merchandise. And the 4 lefty arguetment goes out the door because lee is a lefty and kills all hitters righty or lefty and if cole is cole from 2yrs ago then u have 3 #1 pitchers and happ and moyer.

The real mistake was signing Moyer last year due to fan pressure. If Moyer and his 7 million dollar salary wasn't here right now, the Phils wouldn't have had to trade either Blanton or Lee.

Looks bad now for sure. I really think Drabek is gonna be a stud he hurts to lose. I wish we could give them phillippe instead of drabek.