***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

eeriepadave

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

I'm sure Halladay will be fine but this bums me out. Lee really fit in well with this team. From the moment he came, it just seemed "right" that he was a Phillie. He's a hard-nosed kind of player in the vein of Utley or Werth.

I'm with ya. I really liked lee. Kind sucks to see him go. I was happy when we got him instead of Halladay, but looking at the numbers maybe Halladay is a better choice :?:

jimed14

pssst ... Tim Kurkjian is stating on ESPN that Kyle Drabek may indeed be moved in this deal.

How do Phillie fans feel now?

(not sure when this ws added to the deal but I was under the impression he was not going to be dealt)

Jearlpam0925

jimed14 wrote:

pssst ... Tim Kurkjian is stating on ESPN that Kyle Drabek may indeed be moved in this deal.

How do Phillie fans feel now?

(not sure when this ws added to the deal but I was under the impression he was not going to be dealt)

Like I said above, I don't mind it because we're getting Seattle's #1 pitching prospect who was the #11 overall pick in the '07 draft. Dude's 6'7", 220 lbs. So prospects are prospects and we really didn't lose anything there as it's a wash. It'll be interesting to see what Michael Taylor turns into in Toronto. I like Domonic Brown more anyway - reminds me of Strawberry.

robbyblaylock

so before i chime in i will state that i am and have been a mets fan.

when i saw this today i simply thought...brilliant.
minaya needs to take notes on how to build and maintain a championship team. of course it sucks to lose cliff lee in this deal, and in the meantime kudos to the Mariners who also seem committed to 2010, but i think this worked out great for all 3 teams. it absolutely buries the "megadeal" of last weeks meetings and helps all 3 of these teams take steps in the right direction in the 3 toughest divisions in baseball.
with the mets asleep on lackey, their season might already be over. the met fan in me is just thinking that i am lucky lee didnt stay for the last season with halladay.
as far as prospects go, who is to say any of them will pan out anyways? with deep farm systems you can afford to give away and gamble. its even more worth it when the guys names are lee and halladay.
i hope this is a somewhat competitive season.

go mets. congrats phillies!

The Juggler

good for the phils. they saved 9 millions bucks next year. and got an extra 6 mil from toronto apparently.

i dunno...i mean doc is a better pitcher than lee. that much is certain. but to think that we could have had both had it not for our self imposed salary cap is a little too hard to swallow for me. 73 sellouts last year, alternate jersey sales, higher ticket prices this year...and you can't spend an extra 10 million for just this next season...even if it means having a rotation for the ages??

the way i see it, right now we're a little better than we were on november 5th.

but now, as with then, the key to 2010? ...still cole hamels. just would have been nice to have added to the rotation instead of swapping cy young winners.

jamminpearls

So we basicially traded Carlos carrasco, jason Knapp, jason Donald,lou marson kyle drabek,michael taylor and travis darnaud for Roy Halladay,ben francisco ,phillippe Aumont and tyson gilles. Thats alot these prospects better be good.

Gary Carter

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

jimed14 wrote:

pssst ... Tim Kurkjian is stating on ESPN that Kyle Drabek may indeed be moved in this deal.

How do Phillie fans feel now?

(not sure when this ws added to the deal but I was under the impression he was not going to be dealt)

Like I said above, I don't mind it because we're getting Seattle's #1 pitching prospect who was the #11 overall pick in the '07 draft. Dude's 6'7", 220 lbs. So prospects are prospects and we really didn't lose anything there as it's a wash. It'll be interesting to see what Michael Taylor turns into in Toronto. I like Domonic Brown more anyway - reminds me of Strawberry.

the m's farm system is stacked from top to bottom. so its a bit odd seattle didn't think to highly of him or else they woulda kept him. to me as a baseball fan that's a bit of warning sign. Zduriencik is by no means a clueless talent evaluator. also don't compare anyone to strawberry ever. strawberry was a real 5 tool player. strawberry woulda been everything what bonds was,the greatest baseball player of all time. to bad he was drafted by and played for a jinx team.

btw- congrats on winning the NL east

Jearlpam0925

metsfan wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

jimed14 wrote:

pssst ... Tim Kurkjian is stating on ESPN that Kyle Drabek may indeed be moved in this deal.

How do Phillie fans feel now?

(not sure when this ws added to the deal but I was under the impression he was not going to be dealt)

Like I said above, I don't mind it because we're getting Seattle's #1 pitching prospect who was the #11 overall pick in the '07 draft. Dude's 6'7", 220 lbs. So prospects are prospects and we really didn't lose anything there as it's a wash. It'll be interesting to see what Michael Taylor turns into in Toronto. I like Domonic Brown more anyway - reminds me of Strawberry.

the m's farm system is stacked from top to bottom. so its a bit odd seattle didn't think to highly of him or else they woulda kept him. to me as a baseball fan that's a bit of warning sign. Zduriencik is by no means a clueless talent evaluator. also don't compare anyone to strawberry ever. strawberry was a real 5 tool player. strawberry woulda been everything what bonds was,the greatest baseball player of all time. to bad he was drafted by and played for a jinx team.

btw- congrats on winning the NL east

I mean his stature and the way he swings a bat and plays the field. He looks and plays like an identical to him - tall, slim, boney dude that whips his bat through the strike zone. He was also recruited by the U to play wide receiver, so this guy's got some pretty good athletic ability.

Also, the Phils didn't just get the M's #1 pitching prospect, but also their #2 as well. They both can't be damaged goods if that's what you're inferring. Also, the M's are the same team that traded Adam Jones for Erik Bedard - so let's hope they turn out the same way as that trade.

Cliffy6745

I am a bit suprised by this trade. I certaintly get that the Philles are going to be getting prospects back for Lee to fill what they are losing in Drabek and Taylor, but I am really really suprised they are trading Drabek. Scouting reports sound good on Aumont (aside from some elbow pain) and his numbers were good last year, in a very limited sample size but he is a long ways away from being ready for the majors and Drabek has better numbers in a lot more innings and was "untouchable ".

The Phillies really went through the loop to get Halladay since the deadline and I am suprised they are giving this much up overeall.

booomm11

now Drabek is in the deal? shit, I really wanted to see that curve at the Bank.

chromiam

Honestly, I'm not going to make a comment or decision on this trade one way or another until it is finalized and all the details are released. All this speculation about who is or isn't coming and going makes no sense until the deal is done.

Solat13

The Jeagler wrote:

good for the phils. they saved 9 millions bucks next year. and got an extra 6 mil from toronto apparently.

i dunno...i mean doc is a better pitcher than lee. that much is certain. but to think that we could have had both had it not for our self imposed salary cap is a little too hard to swallow for me. 73 sellouts last year, alternate jersey sales, higher ticket prices this year...and you can't spend an extra 10 million for just this next season...even if it means having a rotation for the ages??

Well, I think part of the reason is that the Phils didn't want to have the distinction of the highest payroll of a non Yankee team in history.

The record used to be 143 million by the 2007 Red Sox and then that was passed by the Mets last year at 149 million.

Also, if the Phils had both they would be very close to the luxury tax threshold if they added anyone in midseason which would be a 22.5% penalty on the Phils on their total payroll which would be in the ballpark of 35-40 million.

Jearlpam0925

Solat13 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

good for the phils. they saved 9 millions bucks next year. and got an extra 6 mil from toronto apparently.

i dunno...i mean doc is a better pitcher than lee. that much is certain. but to think that we could have had both had it not for our self imposed salary cap is a little too hard to swallow for me. 73 sellouts last year, alternate jersey sales, higher ticket prices this year...and you can't spend an extra 10 million for just this next season...even if it means having a rotation for the ages??

Well, I think part of the reason is that the Phils didn't want to have the distinction of the highest payroll or a non Yankee team in history.

The record used to be 143 million by the 2007 Red Sox and then that was passed by the Mets last year at 149 million.

Also, if the Phils had both they would be very close to the luxury tax threshold if they added anyone in midseason which would be a 22.5% penalty on the Phils on their total payroll which would be in the ballpark of 35-40 million.

THANK YOU. We're not the Yankees, and I no way in Hell want to be anything that closely resembles the Yankees.

Cliffy6745

Solat13 wrote:

Well, I think part of the reason is that the Phils didn't want to have the distinction of the highest payroll or a non Yankee team in history.

The record used to be 143 million by the 2007 Red Sox and then that was passed by the Mets last year at 149 million.

That makes absolutely no sense. The phillies are going to make the team worse just so they don't pass some random payroll threshold. Come on. Your luxury tax statement is a much more compelling argument.

Jeff Murray

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Solat13 wrote:

Well, I think part of the reason is that the Phils didn't want to have the distinction of the highest payroll or a non Yankee team in history.

The record used to be 143 million by the 2007 Red Sox and then that was passed by the Mets last year at 149 million.

That makes absolutely no sense. The phillies are going to make the team worse just so they don't pass some random payroll threshold. Come on. Your luxury tax statement is a much more compelling argument.

It's not like the Phils are not pulling in the money! They are going to be making even more next year, they have raised the season ticket prices and associated fees, as well as raised parking to $15. They got the money, just a matter of who gets it.

chromiam

I'll add that the Phils organization is probably being very cautious in its estimates of attendence and merchandise revenue for the upcoming season due to the economy. I mean they were truly surprised by the spike in attendence last season and don't want to count on that when figuring out payroll for the upcoming season.

Jearlpam0925

Jeff Murray wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Solat13 wrote:

Well, I think part of the reason is that the Phils didn't want to have the distinction of the highest payroll or a non Yankee team in history.

The record used to be 143 million by the 2007 Red Sox and then that was passed by the Mets last year at 149 million.

That makes absolutely no sense. The phillies are going to make the team worse just so they don't pass some random payroll threshold. Come on. Your luxury tax statement is a much more compelling argument.

It's not like the Phils are not pulling in the money! They are going to be making even more next year, they have raised the season ticket prices and associated fees, as well as raised parking to $15. They got the money, just a matter of who gets it.

YES! And they jumped to ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY MILLION DOLLARS from $110 mil. That's quite a fucking jump. I feared the day Philly fans would become dirty New York fans. I guess that day is here. No one's ever satisfied. Fuck me.

We just got the best pitcher in the Majors through 2013 and people are fucking sulking. Ridiculous.

Cliffy6745

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

YES! And they jumped to ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY MILLION DOLLARS from $110 mil. That's quite a fucking jump. I feared the day Philly fans would become dirty New York fans. I guess that day is here. No one's ever satisfied. Fuck me.

We just got the best pitcher in the Majors through 2013 and people are fucking sulking. Ridiculous.

I am a Yankees fan so I am not sulking in anything. Just making a statement that the Phillies not wanting to go above some payroll level because the only other team that has is the yankees is an absurd argument.

That is a hell of a jump and good for them. They can absolutely afford it and it is what they should do. They can also afford more than their $140 mil budget.

Jearlpam0925

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

YES! And they jumped to ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY MILLION DOLLARS from $110 mil. That's quite a fucking jump. I feared the day Philly fans would become dirty New York fans. I guess that day is here. No one's ever satisfied. Fuck me.

We just got the best pitcher in the Majors through 2013 and people are fucking sulking. Ridiculous.

I am a Yankees fan so I am not sulking in anything. Just making a statement that the Phillies not wanting to go above some payroll level because the only other team that has is the yankees is an absurd argument.

That is a hell of a jump and good for them. They can absolutely afford it and it is what they should do. They can also afford more than their $140 mil budget.

I'm not talking about you. You're not a Phillies fan. I can't believe what I'm hearing on the radio today. Just fucking can't believe it. I wish this was more of a baseball city and people knew what they were talking about - I really do.

Martino summed it up best on why they couldn't get Doc, Lee, and Hamels in the same rotation. I guess people don't remember that it takes two - or more - to tango in a trade and that this isn't a video game. No one wanted to Joe Blanton for the money nor give up the prospects!

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... today.html

The Juggler

Solat13 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

good for the phils. they saved 9 millions bucks next year. and got an extra 6 mil from toronto apparently.

i dunno...i mean doc is a better pitcher than lee. that much is certain. but to think that we could have had both had it not for our self imposed salary cap is a little too hard to swallow for me. 73 sellouts last year, alternate jersey sales, higher ticket prices this year...and you can't spend an extra 10 million for just this next season...even if it means having a rotation for the ages??

Well, I think part of the reason is that the Phils didn't want to have the distinction of the highest payroll of a non Yankee team in history.
on.

why would this matter for one season? why? who cares? we'd be the odds on favorites to win the word series next year. would it bother you that our payroll shot up an extra 20 M for one season?