***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

The Juggler

the phils operate much the same way the eagles do it appears. only difference, obviously, is that they have won a championship and the birds haven't...yet. the argument about not going "all in" this year and keeping both of them is something you hear about the eagles every year. when its all said and done though, ruben paid a pretty steep price but made a good deal and got one of the top 2 pitchers in the world at the top of the rotation, while at the same time locking him up and assuring we will be in the hunt for the next 3 or 4 years.

that's a similar approach that the eagles take year in, year out--with the exception of 2004.

Solat13

chromiam wrote:

That's all well and good but can honestly say that after all his talk of testing FA, that Lee would sign a 3 year $60 million extension now or after next season?? My bet would be no, especially since he'd never had that big payday and by signing a deal that would take him to 35 years old, he'd basically be giving up his prime playing years.

The main reason Lee is looking to get paid is that he signed a really bad deal in the 2005 offseason.

Lee was coming off an 18-5 season that he finished fourth in the Cy Young voting and he was one year away from arbitration at the time. He signed a 4 year deal for $15 million with an option for a 5th year for 9 million. Essentially he signed for lack of a better term an Eagles contract "ala Sheldon Brown and many others who want guaranteed money early but overperform their deals." So now he wants to get paid in his next deal to make up for the money he lost from his first deal.

Jearlpam0925

Prediction: We will all be illiterate by the year 2012 because we will be spelling Dominic as Domonic due to Domonic Brown. Look out anyone named Dominic, you're screwed in a few years.

Jearlpam0925

Reported out of Toronto, someone apparently failed their physical. I think they're saying it's Drabek.

jamminpearls

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Reported out of Toronto, someone apparently failed their physical. I think they're saying it's Drabek.

What this mean?? He is the center piece for sure.

Jearlpam0925

jamminpearls wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Reported out of Toronto, someone apparently failed their physical. I think they're saying it's Drabek.

What this mean?? He is the center piece for sure.

No idea. It could mean nothing, it could mean disaster, or somewhere in between. Hopefully the Phils made their trade with Seattle contingent upon this trade being approved. And hopefully there was a slip up, or it's something related to his Tommy John surgery that it just comes up as a blip on the radar. We will see...

jamminpearls

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Reported out of Toronto, someone apparently failed their physical. I think they're saying it's Drabek.

What this mean?? He is the center piece for sure.

No idea. It could mean nothing, it could mean disaster, or somewhere in between. Hopefully the Phils made their trade with Seattle contingent upon this trade being approved. And hopefully there was a slip up, or it's something related to his Tommy John surgery that it just comes up as a blip on the radar. We will see...

were did u get this from?? link please

Cliffy6745

It's on MLBTR, if you dont feeling like following 900 people on twitter just refresh trade rumors every 30 seconds, haha.

Could you imagine if this deal unraveled and RAJ had to deal with a really pissed off Cliff Lee.

Nah, not going to happen, they will work it out one way or another.

Jearlpam0925

jamminpearls wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

What this mean?? He is the center piece for sure.

No idea. It could mean nothing, it could mean disaster, or somewhere in between. Hopefully the Phils made their trade with Seattle contingent upon this trade being approved. And hopefully there was a slip up, or it's something related to his Tommy John surgery that it just comes up as a blip on the radar. We will see...

were did u get this from?? link please

Heard it on the radio coming back from lunch. But it's here now - http://www.the700level.com/2009/12/rumo ... sical.html

Jearlpam0925

I don't know what to think because now I'm hearing it's Taylor because he had elbow problems in the Fall league. Considering he's going to Oakland in a subsequent trade could mean somthing...

Cliffy6745

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I don't know what to think because now I'm hearing it's Taylor because he had elbow problems in the Fall league. Considering he's going to Oakland in a subsequent trade could mean somthing...

Would the Phillies replace him with Brown?

Jearlpam0925

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I don't know what to think because now I'm hearing it's Taylor because he had elbow problems in the Fall league. Considering he's going to Oakland in a subsequent trade could mean somthing...

Would the Phillies replace him with Brown?

I don't know. I don't know if they'd give both of their top prospects. I don't know if I would. Wish I knew what the Hell was going on right now.

chromiam

Maybe instead of Taylor you flip Gillies from Seattle to Toronto.. but guess that would depend on who Oakland would want.

Jearlpam0925

I'm reading from Martino that it's not a deal breaker.

The Juggler

1:31pm: Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail heard that the report of a failed physical is a "totally false rumour."

jamminpearls

5pm news conference for the phillies

even flow - question mark

Well Phillie Phans you just got a guy who will give you a ton of complete games and at least 22 wins next year. As the Phillies can produce more then one or two runs with a guy like Doc on the mound where the Jays couldn't.

The Juggler

and we're running from the big house tonight...

The Juggler

another point of view:
http://jay-mariotti.fanhouse.com/2009/1 ... &eref=sihp

Phils Should Have Kept Halladay and Lee
Jay Mariotti


It's good to know that the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox and Mariners are doing big business this winter. That means four teams seem serious about being the best they can be, which would be a titillating thought if we were talking college basketball in April. But we're not.

Major League Baseball is a 30-team enterprise, and, once again, we're left with the sort of competitive imbalance that basically eliminates two dozen teams from World Series title consideration weeks before pitchers and catchers report. I realize that this sport has been hit by the recession, too, but I also suspect some franchise owners are using the economic crisis as a convenient reason to cut costs and corners when, in truth, they have the money to make improvements. There is a dirty word for this collective financial inertia.

Collusion.

So you'd better appreciate life in Philadelphia, the Bronx, Boston and Seattle, where recent days have brought significant maneuvers that all but ensure a successful 2010 in those places. The biggest two deals came this week, when the Red Sox signed pitcher John Lackey to a five-year deal that narrows the Yankees' advantage in the starting rotation, followed by a three-way blockbuster between the Phillies, Mariners and Blue Jays that, from a Philadelphia standpoint, is oddly bittersweet.

The front office made a spectacular move in acquiring Roy Halladay, the grand prize of the offseason, a pitching force who will rule the National League much as Cliff Lee did when he joined the Phillies last summer. But here's the rub: Rather than pair up Halladay and Lee for even one season, which would have been one of the all-time dominant collaborations (think Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale) and dramatically closed the competitive gap between the Phillies and champion Yankees, the Phillies used the deal to ship Lee -- sigh! -- to the Mariners. For months, the Blue Jays had been trying to pry away Philadelphia's best pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek, only to be rejected. Now, suddenly, the Phillies have relinquished Drabek in the Halladay deal, only to dump Lee when he still has a year remaining on his contract.

Uh, why not just keep Lee for his final season while giving Halladay the contract extension he reportedly has accepted: a guaranteed $60 million for three years and a 2014 vesting option of $20 million? Couldn't the trade have been done straight up with Toronto without including Seattle, especially with the Blue Jays sending $6 million in cash to Philadelphia -- all but offsetting the $8 million owed to Lee next season? I can assure you that Lee, coming off a dazzling second half and a nearly-unhittable postseason after winning the American League Cy Young Award in 2008, will have another monster year. I can anticipate the same for Halladay. So even if the Phillies knew they could afford only one or the other for the long term, they could have kept Lee -- who reportedly was making waves about wanting a contract similar to the $161-million pact signed by his friend and former Cleveland partner in Cy Young crime, C.C. Sabathia -- and undoubtedly been the favorites to win the World Series.

Then, when Lee becomes a free agent next winter, they wave goodbye and thank him for the memories while anointing Halladay as the long-term staff anchor. Instead, the Phillies are no better than they were when they lost the Series to the Yankees in six games: a special pitcher at the top of the rotation and a lot of question marks after him, including Cole Hamels, who was last heard verbally blowing off the season before the Series actually was over. The Phillies got cheaper for the future and received three prospects: pitchers Phillippe Aumont and Juan Ramirez and outfielder Tyson Gillies. But at the major league level, they are no better next season while the Yankees and Red Sox clearly have improved themselves.

Sorry, but I've never understood why a franchise prioritizes the future over its precious present. Sorry, but I've never understood why a franchise prioritizes the future over its precious present. In these tumultuous times when any calamity seems possible, including the apocalypse, why would the Phillies blow off an enhanced opportunity to win another World Series next season because they want to acquire prospects and keep their payroll at $140 million? GO FOR THE JUGULAR when you have the chance, when you're clearly the best team in a National League that finds the Dodgers in a divorce-driven fire sale, the Mets lamely remaining idle while the Yankees dominate the back pages, the Cubs not doing much in the infancy of their new ownership and the Cardinals playing their usual payroll games in middle America. Plus, the Phillies don't know if their prospects will pan out. They don't know if their prospects will remain healthy. They don't know if their prospects will date a Kardashian sister -- or should I say a Lohan or a Spears, now that the combined record of the Saints and Lakers, the teams that feature a Kardashian as an in-house love interest, is 31-4?

It didn't have to be an "either/or." It could have been a "win/win" -- and a second World Series trophy in three years. I shouldn't have to remind Ruben Amaro, the Phillies general manager, that Lee went 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA in five postseason starts, winning twice in the World Series. In fact, if push came to shove, I might have picked Lee over Halladay -- particularly if Lee's agent, Darek Braunecker, is being honest when he says he made no demands for Sabathia-type money and that Lee dearly wanted to remain in Philadelphia for the rest of his career. Instead, the winner of the Yankees-Red Sox scrum will prevail in the Series next October/November, with the once-straggling Mariners in position to make the playoffs by teaming Lee with Felix Hernandez atop the rotation and reaping the versatile benefits of new signee Chone Figgins.

OK, we'll see a few more names signed. The Mets, who have to do something if they want any cred in New York, likely will reach out to Jason Bay. The Cardinals probably will re-sign Matt Holliday, who isn't receiving the offers he expected after his postseason fielding blunder and may sign for less money than he rejected last year in Colorado. But the Red Sox aren't done, either, as they eye third baseman Adrian Beltre and have a $15.5 million offer on the table to Aroldis Chapman, the lefty pitcher from Cuba. And that means the Yankees aren't done, as well, making these teams the two biggest winners.

They'll open the regular season on a Sunday night in April and, most likely, close out the postseason in the AL championship series. For all the grousing about too much East Coast-axis emphasis on this rivalry, it's still the best theater in the sport, by far trumping whatever the Yankees and Phillies gave us. The question now becomes whether the Red Sox, with their specific values on pitching and defense while sacrificing the big bopping of their championship years, have enough to beat the Yankees. Right now, I'd say no. By stealing center fielder Curtis Granderson from Detroit, the Yankees have added another power hitter -- one with speed and defensive skills -- to a lineup that already is the modern-day Murderers Row. They've re-signed Andy Pettitte, which aligns an imposing postseason rotation that also included Sabathia and A.J. Burnett. Maybe they didn't get Halladay, which they hoped could happen in midseason. But next winter, they simply can sign Lee to replace Pettitte.

The Yankees gave up two pitchers, Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy, and outfield prospect Austin Jackson in the three-way deal with Detroit and Arizona. General manager Brian Cashman pretended as if he was torn. "We're excited about what we're getting, and we're distraught about what we gave up at the same time," he said. "It's a tough decision. You're trading the future for here and now."

Here and now is where we are. Remember that if the Yankees win their 28th championship and the Phillies are also-rans again.

And Cliff Lee is 3,000 miles away.

jamminpearls

The trade is official