***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Victorino signed to a one year deal....

arbitration numbers released today. Curious to see how much Howard wanted this year.. $13, 14, 15 million???

chromiam wrote:

Ryan Howard wants......




wait for it.....




$18 million

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :evil:

Phils offer $14 million

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/200 ... ation.html

That's too funny. Might as well enjoy him this year because he'll be traded after the season.

chromiam wrote:

Yeah I can see a during or post season trade coming.... and I think he may end up losing arbitration, but I haven't looked at comparable numbers yet, just a feeling I have about the numbers.

I doubt he wins too. I mean he's asking for more money than Pujols who is better than Howard offensively and defensively. But you never know what an arbitrator will decide.

howard and the phils should just agree to 16mil and be done with it.

i really hate all the "lets trade him" and "he wants too much money" talk. his numbers through the first 4 years of his career are not only great, they are fucking historical. only somewhere around 4-5 other players in the history of the game compare to him in regards to his run production--home runs and rbi's. and this game is a 140 years old or so!

this is a run producing, offensive player for the AGES gentlemen. sure he is not a good defensive first basemen. but lets not lose sight of the fact that we won the fucking world series with this guy playing first base!! its not like you cant win with him there! oh, and if it wasn't for his, again, historical (in terms of the franchise's history) september, we dont even get in the playoffs. come on people...appreciate what you have for once.

The Jeagler wrote:

this is a run producing, offensive player for the AGES gentlemen.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here:

In 2005, Howard was 10th in OPS
In 2006, he was 2nd
In 2007, he was 4th
In 2008, he was 6th

Now that is not among all players, but only among 1st basemen. He is a really good hitting first basemen but his numbers have dropped off the last two years and the year he's eligible for free agency he'll be 31. You'd have to be nuts to sign him to a long term deal at that age.

Like I said, enjoy him this year and maybe next but you don't want to cripple your payroll around him for the 5 seasons after or trade him for pennies on the dollar to an AL team after his decline continues.

Hopefully he proves me wrong with a monster season, but his hole in his swing has gotten larger the last few years instead of smaller.

Solat13 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

this is a run producing, offensive player for the AGES gentlemen.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here:

In 2005, Howard was 10th in OPS
In 2006, he was 2nd
In 2007, he was 4th
In 2008, he was 6th

Now that is not among all players, but only among 1st basemen. He is a really good hitting first basemen but his numbers have dropped off the last two years and the year he's eligible for free agency he'll be 31. You'd have to be nuts to sign him to a long term deal at that age.

Like I said, enjoy him this year and maybe next but you don't want to cripple your payroll around him for the 5 seasons after or trade him for pennies on the dollar to an AL team after his decline continues.

Hopefully he proves me wrong with a monster season, but his hole in his swing has gotten larger the last few years instead of smaller.

explain to me how your numbers are expected to go up from 58 home runs and 149 rbi's and a .313 batting average? that season was not only great, but one for the ages. the ages. you can count on maybe one hand, possibly 2 the number of players who had that kind of production over the last 100 years or so.

and the last two years he's hit 105 home runs and 282 rbi's! what more do you need? i also dont think that just because he will be 31 years old in a couple years means he is too old for a multi year deal. yeah he would do himself a huge service by shedding weight and playing better defense. but go and look how many baseball players flourish well into their 30's and even early 40's in some cases. this team is loaded with cash. brand new ball park. sold out stadium every night. fans who eat up their merchandise like its going out of style. and best of all....no salary cap! sign him.

also:
-he ranks 1st out of anyone that has ever played the game in most home runs for first 1,000 at bats.
-he has the most home runs ever in a sophomore season than anyone that ever played the game.
-it took him 325 games to hit 100 home runs...that is the fastest rate than anyone that has ever played the game.
-it took him 495 games to hit 150 home runs...that is the fastest rate than anyone that has ever played the game.
-in just 4 years he has won rookie of the year, mvp, silver slugger, and finished 2nd in mvp in '08.
-in just 4 years he has led the league in rbi's twice
-in just 4 years he has led the league in home runs's twice

Solat13 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

explain to me how your numbers are expected to go up from 58 home runs and 149 rbi's and a .313 batting average? that season was not only great, but one for the ages. the ages. you can count on maybe one hand, possibly 2 the number of players who had that kind of production over the last 100 years or so.

and the last two years he's hit 105 home runs and 282 rbi's! what more do you need? i also dont think that just because he will be 31 years old in a couple years means he is too old for a multi year deal. yeah he would do himself a huge service by shedding weight and playing better defense. but go and look how many baseball players flourish well into their 30's and even early 40's in some cases. this team is loaded with cash. brand new ball park. sold out stadium every night. fans who eat up their merchandise like its going out of style. and best of all....no salary cap! sign him.

also:
-he ranks 1st out of anyone that has ever played the game in most home runs for first 1,000 at bats.
-he has the most home runs ever in a sophomore season than anyone that ever played the game.
-it took him 325 games to hit 100 home runs...that is the fastest rate than anyone that has ever played the game.
-it took him 495 games to hit 150 home runs...that is the fastest rate than anyone that has ever played the game.
-in just 4 years he has won rookie of the year, mvp, silver slugger, and finished 2nd in mvp in '08.
-in just 4 years he has led the league in rbi's twice
-in just 4 years he has led the league in home runs's twice

Counting numbers are great.

I'm more in the Bill Jamesian school of baseball and look at this:

2006: .313/.425/.659 a truly great season that was second in all of baseball to Pujols
2007: .268/.392/.584
2008: .251/.339/.543

If you can't see that he's trending downwards, then I'm sorry. A .339 OBP is not good for anyone yet alone a hitter for all the ages.

There's a reason he only made the Allstar team in 2006. It was the only year he was worthy of going.

bill jamesian is great too. but the numbers i posted can't be denied. and i never said he was not in decline from 2006, even though he hit more hr's and had more rbi's last year than the year before. all i said was he was in decline from just about as good as you can possibly do. you can't deny that his first 4 years in the major leagues have been, from a run producing standpoint (which is all that really matters anyway if you're trying to win baseball games) up there with the greats who have ever played the game.

and who cares about the all star game anyway? that just depends on some clown voting a million times online in his mom's house.

have you guys ever considered posting in the other thread? it gets much more traffic than this one...

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

have you guys ever considered posting in the other thread? it gets much more traffic than this one...

What other thread?

My question as well....