why do you believe in God or...

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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    cornnifer wrote:
    You speak of things that are comletely relative. Relative to the guy who likes to steal and get in barfights, yeah, the life i lead is pretty"good". Relative to the guy who molests children, the stealing barfighter also leads a pretty "good" life. Relative to the guy who molests and MURDERS kids,... you get the point, i'm sure. Now, for the sake of discussion, when you relate my life to GOD, suddenly it doesn't look so "good" anymore. So the qustion becomes "what makes a good life?" Where do you draw the line? Wherever you draw it, surely, someone else will draw it differently. So, the question, for those who believe (i understand you don't and i'm fine with that), must be where does GOD draw the line? i don't like to cite scripture here as i know that most here don't care to hear it and are completelyy uninfluenced by it, and this is not a conversation about Christanity (at least the op didn't intend it as such), but here is something Christ had to say on the matter:

    21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (matthew 5)

    Now i don't know about you, but though i've never killed anyone, i, to some degree, get angry almost every day, which makes my life, in relation to God, pretty pathetic.
    Long story short, your "good life" philosophical argument against a theistic worldview doesn't hold water.
    whew.

    Listen, brother.

    Listen to some music after work.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • chopitdown
    chopitdown Posts: 2,222
    gue_barium wrote:
    So then, you're saying there's a chance...i read ya.

    somehow, i don't think you do.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    chopitdown wrote:
    somehow, i don't think you do.

    But, I did. :)

    Too late, mushterbate.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Religion and the belief in God (s) are a simple survival tactics used by humans to rationalize and give hope. Bad part, some use this aspect as well as means of control, organized religions, leaders. I do understand why humans have this need to explain the unexplanable as well as the need to be able to ask for help........and I don't fault anyone for practicing....more power to you.....just keep it to yourself.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    It makes no sense to me to assume life came from nothing. Creationism is the only thing that makes sense to me. Someone/something had to do this. Although believing in God means you have to believe HE came from nothing.

    As for all the comments on organized religion, you have to find one that you feel is true or else create your own.

    Although if you believe in the concept of God and creation, wouldn't you think that He has a right to be worshiped in a way he decrees? When you think of worship, think of reverence or respect. Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Juberoo wrote:
    Although if you believe in the concept of God and creation, wouldn't you think that He has a right to be worshiped in a way he decrees? When you think of worship, think of reverence or respect. Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?

    how do you know which way is the right way he decreed? was he lying to buddhists? did muslims make their practices up? is mormonism a huge scam to bang more chicks?
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Juberoo wrote:
    It makes no sense to me to assume life came from nothing. Creationism is the only thing that makes sense to me. Someone/something had to do this. Although believing in God means you have to believe HE came from nothing.

    As for all the comments on organized religion, you have to find one that you feel is true or else create your own.

    Although if you believe in the concept of God and creation, wouldn't you think that He has a right to be worshiped in a way he decrees? When you think of worship, think of reverence or respect. Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?

    The child is the father of the man.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    cornnifer wrote:
    You speak of things that are comletely relative. Relative to the guy who likes to steal and get in barfights, yeah, the life i lead is pretty"good". Relative to the guy who molests children, the stealing barfighter also leads a pretty "good" life. Relative to the guy who molests and MURDERS kids,... you get the point, i'm sure. Now, for the sake of discussion, when you relate my life to GOD, suddenly it doesn't look so "good" anymore. So the qustion becomes "what makes a good life?" Where do you draw the line? Wherever you draw it, surely, someone else will draw it differently. So, the question, for those who believe (i understand you don't and i'm fine with that), must be where does GOD draw the line? i don't like to cite scripture here as i know that most here don't care to hear it and are completelyy uninfluenced by it, and this is not a conversation about Christanity (at least the op didn't intend it as such), but here is something Christ had to say on the matter:

    21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (matthew 5)

    Now i don't know about you, but though i've never killed anyone, i, to some degree, get angry almost every day, which makes my life, in relation to God, pretty pathetic.
    Long story short, your "good life" philosophical argument against a theistic worldview doesn't hold water.

    Great point. For those of us who believe in him, God has the authority to set the rules and we have the responsibility to live by them.
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    Juberoo wrote:
    Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?


    The loving father:

    Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man... living in the sky...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever till the end of time...but he loves you

    But seriously, if your kids go against your wil and disobey you, do you torture them? Do make them suffer?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    soulsinging wrote:
    how do you know which way is the right way he decreed? was he lying to buddhists? did muslims make their practices up? is mormonism a huge scam to bang more chicks?
    I know what I personally believe. You have to know what you personally believe. If you have a belief then all other religions or interpretations are wrong because you have decided which is right to you.
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Juberoo wrote:
    Great point. For those of us who believe in him, God has the authority to set the rules and we have the responsibility to live by them.

    but whose rules are the right ones? there are hundreds of religions each claiming they got their rules from god. who's right?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Juberoo wrote:
    I know what I personally believe. You have to know what you personally believe. If you have a belief then all other religions or interpretations are wrong because you have decided which is right to you.

    au contraire. i believe all religions are all right and all wrong. i don't believe god has rules or checklists. so all religions are right in trying to set standards for their believers, but wrong in claiming that anyone who doesn't follow their standards is doomed.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    Juberoo wrote:
    I know what I personally believe. You have to know what you personally believe. If you have a belief then all other religions or interpretations are wrong because you have decided which is right to you.

    So you do realize that if you picked the wrong this wonderful loving god will send you to hell right, no matter how good you tried to live your life?

    You'll be there with Gandhi and Hitler.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    Collin wrote:
    So you do realize that if you picked the wrong this wonderful loving god will send you to hell right, no matter how good you tried to live your life?

    You'll be there with Gandhi and Hitler.

    No, because in my chosen belief, there is no hell. So therefore I won't be going there.
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    Juberoo wrote:
    No, because in my chosen belief, there is no hell. So therefore I won't be going there.

    Actually if your chosen belief is wrong and the right belief has a hell, you're going there.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • stu gee
    stu gee Posts: 1,174
    I posted quite a bit in this thread already and cant be bothered getting right into it again right now as im a bit busy but ill just say soulsinging speaks the truth in my opinion.
    People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    becos as i said in my post above, i am somewhat appalled by the notion of a tiny god who is more vain than paris hilton and don't see how anyone can say such a god is full of "love." it's an outright contradiction. god loves you so much he can never forgive you for picking the wrong church and will damn you to hell for not spending enough time on your knees worshipping and begging for his forgiveness. how is that love?
    wow... this never gets old....

    it's not because God doesn't want us to get "into heaven" simply because we don't believe. it's because of our own "unbelief" that we don't get into heaven. heaven is open for everybody... although i don't think heaven is a literal place in x time or y place. i think heaven is open already for us all here at this moment and it's a matter of you changing your beliefs. i explained that to you already a long time ago.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    wow... this never gets old....

    it's not because God doesn't want us to get "into heaven" simply because we don't believe. it's because of our own "unbelief" that we don't get into heaven. heaven is open for everybody... although i don't think heaven is a literal place in x time or y place. i think heaven is open already for us all here at this moment and it's a matter of you changing your beliefs. i explained that to you already a long time ago.

    me changing my beliefs to what? yours? why should i have to change? why can't you change yours?
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    me changing my beliefs to what? yours? why should i have to change? why can't you change yours?
    i don't know... i don't care....

    the point is we can't have access if we don't believe....

    God, or the biblical God, doesn't interfere with our choices so why would he force us into heaven if we don't wanna believe?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i don't know... i don't care....

    the point is we can't have access if we don't believe....

    God, or the biblical God, doesn't interfere with our choices so why would he force us into heaven if we don't wanna believe?

    that's what im saying. i do believe in god. i just believe in a god who is vastly different from the christian one. now, if the christians are right, and i show up at the pearly gates and god is asking me why i wasnt down with jesus, ill say it didnt make sense to me and i found a stronger faith in my own spiritual experiences. i will admit i was wrong though and if that isn't good enough, then it is a god i want no part of and im perfectly happy rotting in hell. i prefer that to spending eternity with a god who is as vain as paris hilton and cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion.

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