Why Do Athiests

Milestone · May 2007

Dog Loyal wrote:

We have some living down the street, and they host their little group gropes or whatever they call them, so they are always campaigning around my neighborhood.

If there really was a god, there would be no need for recruitment.

Uncle Leo · May 2007

know1 wrote:

Religion is forgiveness and love. The fact that your sins can be forgiven and you avoid hell demonstrates both.

"Forgiveness and Love" Are you kidding me?

God: "If you don't believe that Jesus is my son, he died for your sins and he rose from the dead, you will go to hell."

That sure as hell is not forgiveness. It strikes me as vengence and contempt.

Milestone · May 2007

Uncle Leo wrote:

"Forgiveness and Love" Are you kidding me?

God: "If you don't believe that Jesus is my son, he died for your sins and he rose from the dead, you will go to hell."

That sure as hell is not forgiveness. It strikes me as vengence and contempt.

How about the Jewish stance that they are "God's chosen people" and everyone else is fucked.

onelongsong · May 2007

Cosmo wrote:

...
So... what about a guy like me?
I believe in God... but, do not believe the Bible is the truth... mainly because it was written by Man and in the captivity of the Church for so long. The God in the Bible... In my view... is more created in Man's image, than the other way around. He does some stuff in there that are more like things Man does to his fellow man, rather than a benevolent God would do to his creation.
I love the teaching of Jesus and try to relate them into my life... but, as for Him being my saviour and that whole resurrection thing... the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned.
I stay away from churches... although, I believe Notre Dame is a beautiful building, it pales in comparison to a Pacific sunset... the place i speak to my God at. I don't talk to Him every Sunday... because He busy with everyone else. I talk to God when i need to. I don't lean on Him with my petty problems... I'm saving His shoulder for the really big things that will happen in my life. Just as I don't dump my screw ups on Jesus. I screwed up... I am responsible and i am accountable for them.
I don't care whether a person is Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Atheist or Scientologist as long as they are not a dick to me. I do not subscribe to any religion because I do not fit well into structured belief. Religions have proven time and time again how they do not coincide with my personal beliefs. I'll take my own road, thanx.
...
I'm not Christian... i don't know if Jesus is my saviour... I'm going to Hell? I like to believe that God isn't that petty and Jesus isn't that egotistical and They both accept me for who I am and what I do. If they are actually like those judgemental entities religions tell me they are... then, they are dicks in my book and I'm probably better off in Hell with the rest of the entire population of the world since the beginning of time.

we believe mostly the same things. churches are filled with hypoctites and i stay away from them. i've never asked God for anything for myself. i know who i was in my past life and i accept the bad things that have happened to me as my punishment for what i did in that past life. i believe in Jesus and what he said. not what man says he said. i consider you more a person of religion than someone that winds God up on sunday and goes through the motions.

Davanita · May 2007

Uncle Leo wrote:

And there is the answer to the orginal question. No, I don't feel I, an agnostic, display anger toward very many people of religion. Any anger toward people is misplaced, but my frustration with it is the absolute arrogance that of all the religions there are, mine is the right one. Not only that, but the extremely dark and freightening arrogance associated with not only believing that all others are definately wrong, but that for being wrong, they are going to spend in eternity in pain.

Honestly, I don't think that most people that identify themselves as Christians even believe that, but those that do...that is what I cannot stand. If they don't make it a topic, I can live with it, but if they push it, then the anger comes out, and rightly so.

this is *exactly* what i was going to say.
it's that condescending attitude that aggravates me, not the religion itself.

Dog Loyal · May 2007

Uncle Leo wrote:

"Forgiveness and Love" Are you kidding me?

God: "If you don't believe that Jesus is my son, he died for your sins and he rose from the dead, you will go to hell."

That sure as hell is not forgiveness. It strikes me as vengence and contempt.

I actually think the "love and forgiveness" angle of Christianity is one of it's core problems. Some believers seem to think that means they can do just about any craptastic thing they want, and Jay-zues will forgive them and it will all be cool in the end. Do something nasty, pray, feel absolved, wash, rinse repeat.

Those of us who don't believe we're being automatically forgiven by the highest possible authority have to think a lot harder about our actions and how they affect others.

onelongsong · May 2007

Uncle Leo wrote:

"Forgiveness and Love" Are you kidding me?

God: "If you don't believe that Jesus is my son, he died for your sins and he rose from the dead, you will go to hell."

That sure as hell is not forgiveness. It strikes me as vengence and contempt.

when did God talk to you? or are you paraphrasing what someone told you?

Cosmo · May 2007

The other thing i find sort of laughable and pathetic at the same time... Americans believing Jesus will come to save them. To me, that is kind of like Jesus originally out there to save the Romans, not the people of Judea. I mean, seriously... how many of us are suffering... I mean, REALLY suffering? If I'm hungry... i eat. I sleep indoors and do not have the threat of getting dragged out of my house and having my head chopped off with a machete.
IF... Jesus ever came to save me... I'd tell Him, "Not that I'm ungrateful or anything, bud... but, let them people in places like Darfur go ahead of me. They are suffering. But, be sure to come back and get me... it's just that there are a hell of a lot of poor saps worse off than me."
Why would Jesus care about overfed, comfortably warm middle and upper class people in the militarily strongest and economically wealthiest nation on the planet over those poor people who are lucky to eat a half a handful of rice a week? I would think that if He did... He really has His priorities screwed up.

Uncle Leo · May 2007

Milestone wrote:

How about the Jewish stance that they are "God's chosen people" and everyone else is fucked.

I don't know much about Judaism. Why? Probably because that is not the religion that I have frequently had people try to thrust upon me.

I am not fond of anyone thinking "we are God's chosen people." However, I don't knwo about everyone else being "fucked", as I thought that Judaism recognized no hell.

onelongsong · May 2007

Dog Loyal wrote:

I actually think the "love and forgiveness" angle of Christianity is one of it's core problems. Some believers seem to think that means they can do just about any craptastic thing they want, and Jay-zues will forgive them and it will all be cool in the end. Do something nasty, pray, feel absolved, wash, rinse repeat.

Those of us who don't believe we're being automatically forgiven by the highest possible authority have to think a lot harder about our actions and how they affect others.

i've never heard that. i've heard that you are punished for your sins before you can enter the kingdom of God. i was raised roman catholic so i'd like to know where you got that from.

pjflea · May 2007

A lot of people say that religions are the cause of meaningless bloodshed. There are wars faught over religion, however, the worst wars in the history of the world were in the 20th century, and were mainly political reasons. Also, the horrible genocide that happened in France during their revolution, Russia during their revolution, and other countries on a smaller scale, were all carried out by people rejecting religion, not upholding it. People need to get their facts straight before they attack people for believing in something.

hippiemom · May 2007

onelongsong wrote:

why do athiests have so much anger toward those of religion? religious threads here turn into athiest trying to prove those of religion are wrong. why? where does this anger come from. if you tell someone of religion that you are athiest; they feel sorry for you and maybe pray for you; which is an act of compassion to them. yet athiests can't wait to jump on someone trying to prove they're wrong. they disrespect that person and thier beliefs. are these the attributes of a "good" person?

I don't have any anger at all towards anyone solely because they have religious beliefs, but I DO have some anger towards some very specific religious behaviors.

Believe what you like, but when you start trying to pass legislation, you're making your religion my business, and you're damn right I'm going to argue with you about it. When you try to tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies, or my gay friends that they're not entitled to the same rights that I have, because your god tells you that what they want to do is a sin, you'd better be able to show that god to me and prove that he exists and that your beliefs are irrefutably the devine word of god. If you can't do that (and you can't), then you have no business making laws that people who don't believe in your god are bound to obey. If you want to clutter up public spaces that I'm helping to pay for with crucifixes or menorahs or giant concrete copies of the ten commandments, first you PROVE to me that this is all real ... if you can't, then please just go away. Put your stuff on your own property, leave what partially belongs to me alone. And don't even think about forcing kids in public school to pray to your god.

Those are the only religious people that make me truly angry. The ones who knock on my door or sit next to me on a bus annoy me a lot, but I can't say I get genuinely angry with them. If I'm in the right mood, I might even find them amusing.

Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.

Uncle Leo · May 2007

onelongsong wrote:

when did God talk to you? or are you paraphrasing what someone told you?

I will not pretend to be a theologion. My understanding (and Know1 seems to back this up) is that Christianity teaches that non-believers go to hell. I fully admit that i could be wrong. Many people that identify themselves as Christians do not tend to believe that--but I've been told that truley accurate (for lack of a better term) Christian believes it. As for my "quote", that was hyperbole to bring across my idea of the "non-believer" punishment in the religion.

Davanita · May 2007

hippiemom wrote:

I don't have any anger at all towards anyone solely because they have religious beliefs, but I DO have some anger towards some very specific religious behaviors.

Believe what you like, but when you start trying to pass legislation, you're making your religion my business, and you're damn right I'm going to argue with you about it. When you try to tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies, or my gay friends that they're not entitled to the same rights that I have, because your god tells you that what they want to do is a sin, you'd better be able to show that god to me and prove that he exists and that your beliefs are irrefutably the devine word of god. If you can't do that (and you can't), then you have no business making laws that people who don't believe in your god are bound to obey. If you want to clutter up public spaces that I'm helping to pay for with crucifixes or menorahs or giant concrete copies of the ten commandments, first you PROVE to me that this is all real ... if you can't, then please just go away. Put your stuff on your own property, leave what partially belongs to me alone. And don't even think about forcing kids in public school to pray to your god.

Those are the only religious people that make me truly angry. The ones who knock on my door or sit next to me on a bus annoy me a lot, but I can't say I get genuinely angry with them. If I'm in the right mood, I might even find them amusing.

Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.

very well said!

norm · May 2007

hippiemom wrote:

Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.

which is how all people should act......god or no god.......

Dog Loyal · May 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i've never heard that. i've heard that you are punished for your sins before you can enter the kingdom of God. i was raised roman catholic so i'd like to know where you got that from.

Hey, I didn't say it was church doctrine, I said it was what some believers seem to think. If you've never seen an example of such behavior from Christians, you're not very observant.

crittables · May 2007

hippiemom wrote:

I don't have any anger at all towards anyone solely because they have religious beliefs, but I DO have some anger towards some very specific religious behaviors.

Believe what you like, but when you start trying to pass legislation, you're making your religion my business, and you're damn right I'm going to argue with you about it. When you try to tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies, or my gay friends that they're not entitled to the same rights that I have, because your god tells you that what they want to do is a sin, you'd better be able to show that god to me and prove that he exists and that your beliefs are irrefutably the devine word of god. If you can't do that (and you can't), then you have no business making laws that people who don't believe in your god are bound to obey. If you want to clutter up public spaces that I'm helping to pay for with crucifixes or menorahs or giant concrete copies of the ten commandments, first you PROVE to me that this is all real ... if you can't, then please just go away. Put your stuff on your own property, leave what partially belongs to me alone. And don't even think about forcing kids in public school to pray to your god.

Those are the only religious people that make me truly angry. The ones who knock on my door or sit next to me on a bus annoy me a lot, but I can't say I get genuinely angry with them. If I'm in the right mood, I might even find them amusing.

Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.

i agree with you here. it's one thing to be simply against abortion and gay marriage. but don't tell me that both should be outlawed because your religion says so.

soulsinging · May 2007

onelongsong wrote:

yes; religions look forward to the end of times. death and destruction does not come to the faithful. the GOAL of a religious person is to see God. the end of times brings peace. no illness and no bad people. wouldn't you look forward to that?

why dont you kill yourself and be done with it then? you get to meet god faster.

Uncle Leo · May 2007

onelongsong wrote:

yes; religions look forward to the end of times. death and destruction does not come to the faithful. the GOAL of a religious person is to see God. the end of times brings peace. no illness and no bad people. wouldn't you look forward to that?

Depends on the definition of "bad people." It seems to me that bad people are the ones without the correct beliefs. If that's the case, then no. I would not look forward to that. I like a little more variety.

surferdude · May 2007

Davanita wrote:

very well said!

Except everyone tries to pass legislation based on what they believe in. Why damn on group of people because they base their proposed legislation on religious doctrine rather than a philosophical stance? It's a form of hypocracy that gets us nowehre. Who cares where the idea for legislation comes from, just debate the merit of the legislation.

Why Do Athiests

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