We have some living down the street, and they host their little group gropes or whatever they call them, so they are always campaigning around my neighborhood.
If there really was a god, there would be no need for recruitment.
...
So... what about a guy like me?
I believe in God... but, do not believe the Bible is the truth... mainly because it was written by Man and in the captivity of the Church for so long. The God in the Bible... In my view... is more created in Man's image, than the other way around. He does some stuff in there that are more like things Man does to his fellow man, rather than a benevolent God would do to his creation.
I love the teaching of Jesus and try to relate them into my life... but, as for Him being my saviour and that whole resurrection thing... the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned.
I stay away from churches... although, I believe Notre Dame is a beautiful building, it pales in comparison to a Pacific sunset... the place i speak to my God at. I don't talk to Him every Sunday... because He busy with everyone else. I talk to God when i need to. I don't lean on Him with my petty problems... I'm saving His shoulder for the really big things that will happen in my life. Just as I don't dump my screw ups on Jesus. I screwed up... I am responsible and i am accountable for them.
I don't care whether a person is Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Atheist or Scientologist as long as they are not a dick to me. I do not subscribe to any religion because I do not fit well into structured belief. Religions have proven time and time again how they do not coincide with my personal beliefs. I'll take my own road, thanx.
...
I'm not Christian... i don't know if Jesus is my saviour... I'm going to Hell? I like to believe that God isn't that petty and Jesus isn't that egotistical and They both accept me for who I am and what I do. If they are actually like those judgemental entities religions tell me they are... then, they are dicks in my book and I'm probably better off in Hell with the rest of the entire population of the world since the beginning of time.
we believe mostly the same things. churches are filled with hypoctites and i stay away from them. i've never asked God for anything for myself. i know who i was in my past life and i accept the bad things that have happened to me as my punishment for what i did in that past life. i believe in Jesus and what he said. not what man says he said. i consider you more a person of religion than someone that winds God up on sunday and goes through the motions.
And there is the answer to the orginal question. No, I don't feel I, an agnostic, display anger toward very many people of religion. Any anger toward people is misplaced, but my frustration with it is the absolute arrogance that of all the religions there are, mine is the right one. Not only that, but the extremely dark and freightening arrogance associated with not only believing that all others are definately wrong, but that for being wrong, they are going to spend in eternity in pain.
Honestly, I don't think that most people that identify themselves as Christians even believe that, but those that do...that is what I cannot stand. If they don't make it a topic, I can live with it, but if they push it, then the anger comes out, and rightly so.
this is *exactly* what i was going to say.
it's that condescending attitude that aggravates me, not the religion itself.
Jon Stewart: "[about Russia's new president]...Dmitri Medevvvevv.... Dmitri Meh..... Dmitri M.! Or... as George W. Bush would probably pronounce it... Eddie Vedder."
__________________________________ http://www.myspace.com/pearl_jamn_it
God: "If you don't believe that Jesus is my son, he died for your sins and he rose from the dead, you will go to hell."
That sure as hell is not forgiveness. It strikes me as vengence and contempt.
I actually think the "love and forgiveness" angle of Christianity is one of it's core problems. Some believers seem to think that means they can do just about any craptastic thing they want, and Jay-zues will forgive them and it will all be cool in the end. Do something nasty, pray, feel absolved, wash, rinse repeat.
Those of us who don't believe we're being automatically forgiven by the highest possible authority have to think a lot harder about our actions and how they affect others.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
The other thing i find sort of laughable and pathetic at the same time... Americans believing Jesus will come to save them. To me, that is kind of like Jesus originally out there to save the Romans, not the people of Judea. I mean, seriously... how many of us are suffering... I mean, REALLY suffering? If I'm hungry... i eat. I sleep indoors and do not have the threat of getting dragged out of my house and having my head chopped off with a machete.
IF... Jesus ever came to save me... I'd tell Him, "Not that I'm ungrateful or anything, bud... but, let them people in places like Darfur go ahead of me. They are suffering. But, be sure to come back and get me... it's just that there are a hell of a lot of poor saps worse off than me."
Why would Jesus care about overfed, comfortably warm middle and upper class people in the militarily strongest and economically wealthiest nation on the planet over those poor people who are lucky to eat a half a handful of rice a week? I would think that if He did... He really has His priorities screwed up.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
How about the Jewish stance that they are "God's chosen people" and everyone else is fucked.
I don't know much about Judaism. Why? Probably because that is not the religion that I have frequently had people try to thrust upon me.
I am not fond of anyone thinking "we are God's chosen people." However, I don't knwo about everyone else being "fucked", as I thought that Judaism recognized no hell.
I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
I actually think the "love and forgiveness" angle of Christianity is one of it's core problems. Some believers seem to think that means they can do just about any craptastic thing they want, and Jay-zues will forgive them and it will all be cool in the end. Do something nasty, pray, feel absolved, wash, rinse repeat.
Those of us who don't believe we're being automatically forgiven by the highest possible authority have to think a lot harder about our actions and how they affect others.
i've never heard that. i've heard that you are punished for your sins before you can enter the kingdom of God. i was raised roman catholic so i'd like to know where you got that from.
A lot of people say that religions are the cause of meaningless bloodshed. There are wars faught over religion, however, the worst wars in the history of the world were in the 20th century, and were mainly political reasons. Also, the horrible genocide that happened in France during their revolution, Russia during their revolution, and other countries on a smaller scale, were all carried out by people rejecting religion, not upholding it. People need to get their facts straight before they attack people for believing in something.
why do athiests have so much anger toward those of religion? religious threads here turn into athiest trying to prove those of religion are wrong. why? where does this anger come from. if you tell someone of religion that you are athiest; they feel sorry for you and maybe pray for you; which is an act of compassion to them. yet athiests can't wait to jump on someone trying to prove they're wrong. they disrespect that person and thier beliefs. are these the attributes of a "good" person?
I don't have any anger at all towards anyone solely because they have religious beliefs, but I DO have some anger towards some very specific religious behaviors.
Believe what you like, but when you start trying to pass legislation, you're making your religion my business, and you're damn right I'm going to argue with you about it. When you try to tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies, or my gay friends that they're not entitled to the same rights that I have, because your god tells you that what they want to do is a sin, you'd better be able to show that god to me and prove that he exists and that your beliefs are irrefutably the devine word of god. If you can't do that (and you can't), then you have no business making laws that people who don't believe in your god are bound to obey. If you want to clutter up public spaces that I'm helping to pay for with crucifixes or menorahs or giant concrete copies of the ten commandments, first you PROVE to me that this is all real ... if you can't, then please just go away. Put your stuff on your own property, leave what partially belongs to me alone. And don't even think about forcing kids in public school to pray to your god.
Those are the only religious people that make me truly angry. The ones who knock on my door or sit next to me on a bus annoy me a lot, but I can't say I get genuinely angry with them. If I'm in the right mood, I might even find them amusing.
Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
when did God talk to you? or are you paraphrasing what someone told you?
I will not pretend to be a theologion. My understanding (and Know1 seems to back this up) is that Christianity teaches that non-believers go to hell. I fully admit that i could be wrong. Many people that identify themselves as Christians do not tend to believe that--but I've been told that truley accurate (for lack of a better term) Christian believes it. As for my "quote", that was hyperbole to bring across my idea of the "non-believer" punishment in the religion.
I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
I don't have any anger at all towards anyone solely because they have religious beliefs, but I DO have some anger towards some very specific religious behaviors.
Believe what you like, but when you start trying to pass legislation, you're making your religion my business, and you're damn right I'm going to argue with you about it. When you try to tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies, or my gay friends that they're not entitled to the same rights that I have, because your god tells you that what they want to do is a sin, you'd better be able to show that god to me and prove that he exists and that your beliefs are irrefutably the devine word of god. If you can't do that (and you can't), then you have no business making laws that people who don't believe in your god are bound to obey. If you want to clutter up public spaces that I'm helping to pay for with crucifixes or menorahs or giant concrete copies of the ten commandments, first you PROVE to me that this is all real ... if you can't, then please just go away. Put your stuff on your own property, leave what partially belongs to me alone. And don't even think about forcing kids in public school to pray to your god.
Those are the only religious people that make me truly angry. The ones who knock on my door or sit next to me on a bus annoy me a lot, but I can't say I get genuinely angry with them. If I'm in the right mood, I might even find them amusing.
Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.
very well said!
Jon Stewart: "[about Russia's new president]...Dmitri Medevvvevv.... Dmitri Meh..... Dmitri M.! Or... as George W. Bush would probably pronounce it... Eddie Vedder."
__________________________________ http://www.myspace.com/pearl_jamn_it
Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.
which is how all people should act......god or no god.......
i've never heard that. i've heard that you are punished for your sins before you can enter the kingdom of God. i was raised roman catholic so i'd like to know where you got that from.
Hey, I didn't say it was church doctrine, I said it was what some believers seem to think. If you've never seen an example of such behavior from Christians, you're not very observant.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
I don't have any anger at all towards anyone solely because they have religious beliefs, but I DO have some anger towards some very specific religious behaviors.
Believe what you like, but when you start trying to pass legislation, you're making your religion my business, and you're damn right I'm going to argue with you about it. When you try to tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies, or my gay friends that they're not entitled to the same rights that I have, because your god tells you that what they want to do is a sin, you'd better be able to show that god to me and prove that he exists and that your beliefs are irrefutably the devine word of god. If you can't do that (and you can't), then you have no business making laws that people who don't believe in your god are bound to obey. If you want to clutter up public spaces that I'm helping to pay for with crucifixes or menorahs or giant concrete copies of the ten commandments, first you PROVE to me that this is all real ... if you can't, then please just go away. Put your stuff on your own property, leave what partially belongs to me alone. And don't even think about forcing kids in public school to pray to your god.
Those are the only religious people that make me truly angry. The ones who knock on my door or sit next to me on a bus annoy me a lot, but I can't say I get genuinely angry with them. If I'm in the right mood, I might even find them amusing.
Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.
i agree with you here. it's one thing to be simply against abortion and gay marriage. but don't tell me that both should be outlawed because your religion says so.
yes; religions look forward to the end of times. death and destruction does not come to the faithful. the GOAL of a religious person is to see God. the end of times brings peace. no illness and no bad people. wouldn't you look forward to that?
why dont you kill yourself and be done with it then? you get to meet god faster.
yes; religions look forward to the end of times. death and destruction does not come to the faithful. the GOAL of a religious person is to see God. the end of times brings peace. no illness and no bad people. wouldn't you look forward to that?
Depends on the definition of "bad people." It seems to me that bad people are the ones without the correct beliefs. If that's the case, then no. I would not look forward to that. I like a little more variety.
I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
Except everyone tries to pass legislation based on what they believe in. Why damn on group of people because they base their proposed legislation on religious doctrine rather than a philosophical stance? It's a form of hypocracy that gets us nowehre. Who cares where the idea for legislation comes from, just debate the merit of the legislation.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
we believe mostly the same things. churches are filled with hypoctites and i stay away from them. i've never asked God for anything for myself. i know who i was in my past life and i accept the bad things that have happened to me as my punishment for what i did in that past life. i believe in Jesus and what he said. not what man says he said. i consider you more a person of religion than someone that winds God up on sunday and goes through the motions.
then you must feel the same about me, cos he pretty much outlined my beliefs as well. i pray every night.. fancy that. yet here i am, reaming the religious folks. why? becos i find their arrogance far more offensive than the insecurity of atheists.
I don't have any anger at all towards anyone solely because they have religious beliefs, but I DO have some anger towards some very specific religious behaviors.
Believe what you like, but when you start trying to pass legislation, you're making your religion my business, and you're damn right I'm going to argue with you about it. When you try to tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies, or my gay friends that they're not entitled to the same rights that I have, because your god tells you that what they want to do is a sin, you'd better be able to show that god to me and prove that he exists and that your beliefs are irrefutably the devine word of god. If you can't do that (and you can't), then you have no business making laws that people who don't believe in your god are bound to obey. If you want to clutter up public spaces that I'm helping to pay for with crucifixes or menorahs or giant concrete copies of the ten commandments, first you PROVE to me that this is all real ... if you can't, then please just go away. Put your stuff on your own property, leave what partially belongs to me alone. And don't even think about forcing kids in public school to pray to your god.
Those are the only religious people that make me truly angry. The ones who knock on my door or sit next to me on a bus annoy me a lot, but I can't say I get genuinely angry with them. If I'm in the right mood, I might even find them amusing.
Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.
...
Thank you.
I didn't want to single out Christianity over other religions... but, living in America, it ain't easy to avoid.
Trying to get religious beliefs into law... I am totally against it. and NOT just Christian belief... if Judaism or Islam or Scientology tried to pass legislation to favor their religion over others, I would be equally against it. We can see examples of religion and politics as one... all we need to do is look at the Middle East. I don't want that crap over here.
So... don't 'lead me in your prayers' and don't inject your religion into my country. You're supposed to have a personal relationship with Jesus, right?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Except everyone tries to pass legislation based on what they believe in. Why damn on group of people because they base their proposed legislation on religious doctrine rather than a philosophical stance? It's a form of hypocracy that gets us nowehre. Who cares where the idea for legislation comes from, just debate the merit of the legislation.
Usually philosophy has it's reasons and not just because god said so.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The other thing i find sort of laughable and pathetic at the same time... Americans believing Jesus will come to save them. To me, that is kind of like Jesus originally out there to save the Romans, not the people of Judea. I mean, seriously... how many of us are suffering... I mean, REALLY suffering? If I'm hungry... i eat. I sleep indoors and do not have the threat of getting dragged out of my house and having my head chopped off with a machete.
IF... Jesus ever came to save me... I'd tell Him, "Not that I'm ungrateful or anything, bud... but, let them people in places like Darfur go ahead of me. They are suffering. But, be sure to come back and get me... it's just that there are a hell of a lot of poor saps worse off than me."
Why would Jesus care about overfed, comfortably warm middle and upper class people in the militarily strongest and economically wealthiest nation on the planet over those poor people who are lucky to eat a half a handful of rice a week? I would think that if He did... He really has His priorities screwed up.
becos they have the soul-crushing torment of potentially having to live next to a homosexual and never even know it!
Usually philosophy has it's reasons and not just because god said so.
But they are all faith based. They require a belief in something unprovebale. When you propose legislation i would hope it is because you believe it is the right thing to do. This "rightness" can only be based on an uproveable belief you hold.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Except everyone tries to pass legislation based on what they believe in. Why damn on group of people because they base their proposed legislation on religious doctrine rather than a philosophical stance? It's a form of hypocracy that gets us nowehre. Who cares where the idea for legislation comes from, just debate the merit of the legislation.
Have I told you lately that I love you??
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
But they are all faith based. They require a belief in something unprovebale.
No, philosophy is based on life experiences and morality. You can argue why something is wrong because you've see it's ill effects...you don't have to refer to the bible. If something is causing problems in society then you make laws but there has to be some sort of reason other than going against what your invisible god says.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Except everyone tries to pass legislation based on what they believe in. Why damn on group of people because they base their proposed legislation on religious doctrine rather than a philosophical stance? It's a form of hypocracy that gets us nowehre. Who cares where the idea for legislation comes from, just debate the merit of the legislation.
becos most people base their beliefs on statistics and practical realities. religious people base them on a book written 2000 years ago. we used to chop off people's hands for theft then, stone women who got raped, enslave those of different colored skin, etc etc. so tell me how you can say thing havent changed in 2000 years and our society should be set up exactly as it was at the dawn of civilization when society was built around tiny, wandering nomadic tribes that have a vested and compelling interest in making sure everybody that could was making babies?
when the SOLE merit of your legislation is "the bible said so" your legislation fails on its merits. period. and those who legislate the bible never have any other merit to back their ideas up. that is what they piss me off. there is nothing reasonable or compassionate about them.
Comments
If there really was a god, there would be no need for recruitment.
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11-29-2013 Portland. 10-16-2014 Detroit. 8-8-2018 Seattle. 8-10-2018 Seattle. 8-13-2018 Missoula. 5-10-2024 Portland. 5-30-2024 Seattle.
"Forgiveness and Love" Are you kidding me?
God: "If you don't believe that Jesus is my son, he died for your sins and he rose from the dead, you will go to hell."
That sure as hell is not forgiveness. It strikes me as vengence and contempt.
How about the Jewish stance that they are "God's chosen people" and everyone else is fucked.
7-6-2006 Las Vegas. 7-20-2006 Portland. 7-22-2006 Gorge. 9-21-2009 Seattle. 9-22-2009 Seattle. 9-26-2009 Ridgefield. 9-25-2011 Vancouver.
11-29-2013 Portland. 10-16-2014 Detroit. 8-8-2018 Seattle. 8-10-2018 Seattle. 8-13-2018 Missoula. 5-10-2024 Portland. 5-30-2024 Seattle.
we believe mostly the same things. churches are filled with hypoctites and i stay away from them. i've never asked God for anything for myself. i know who i was in my past life and i accept the bad things that have happened to me as my punishment for what i did in that past life. i believe in Jesus and what he said. not what man says he said. i consider you more a person of religion than someone that winds God up on sunday and goes through the motions.
this is *exactly* what i was going to say.
it's that condescending attitude that aggravates me, not the religion itself.
__________________________________
http://www.myspace.com/pearl_jamn_it
Those of us who don't believe we're being automatically forgiven by the highest possible authority have to think a lot harder about our actions and how they affect others.
when did God talk to you? or are you paraphrasing what someone told you?
IF... Jesus ever came to save me... I'd tell Him, "Not that I'm ungrateful or anything, bud... but, let them people in places like Darfur go ahead of me. They are suffering. But, be sure to come back and get me... it's just that there are a hell of a lot of poor saps worse off than me."
Why would Jesus care about overfed, comfortably warm middle and upper class people in the militarily strongest and economically wealthiest nation on the planet over those poor people who are lucky to eat a half a handful of rice a week? I would think that if He did... He really has His priorities screwed up.
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't know much about Judaism. Why? Probably because that is not the religion that I have frequently had people try to thrust upon me.
I am not fond of anyone thinking "we are God's chosen people." However, I don't knwo about everyone else being "fucked", as I thought that Judaism recognized no hell.
i've never heard that. i've heard that you are punished for your sins before you can enter the kingdom of God. i was raised roman catholic so i'd like to know where you got that from.
Believe what you like, but when you start trying to pass legislation, you're making your religion my business, and you're damn right I'm going to argue with you about it. When you try to tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies, or my gay friends that they're not entitled to the same rights that I have, because your god tells you that what they want to do is a sin, you'd better be able to show that god to me and prove that he exists and that your beliefs are irrefutably the devine word of god. If you can't do that (and you can't), then you have no business making laws that people who don't believe in your god are bound to obey. If you want to clutter up public spaces that I'm helping to pay for with crucifixes or menorahs or giant concrete copies of the ten commandments, first you PROVE to me that this is all real ... if you can't, then please just go away. Put your stuff on your own property, leave what partially belongs to me alone. And don't even think about forcing kids in public school to pray to your god.
Those are the only religious people that make me truly angry. The ones who knock on my door or sit next to me on a bus annoy me a lot, but I can't say I get genuinely angry with them. If I'm in the right mood, I might even find them amusing.
Religious people who do their best to live according to their beliefs, don't attempt to force those beliefs on others, are respectful my beliefs or lack thereof, and proselytize only by example, are some of the finest people I know and I have no quarrel with them at all.
I will not pretend to be a theologion. My understanding (and Know1 seems to back this up) is that Christianity teaches that non-believers go to hell. I fully admit that i could be wrong. Many people that identify themselves as Christians do not tend to believe that--but I've been told that truley accurate (for lack of a better term) Christian believes it. As for my "quote", that was hyperbole to bring across my idea of the "non-believer" punishment in the religion.
__________________________________
http://www.myspace.com/pearl_jamn_it
which is how all people should act......god or no god.......
i agree with you here. it's one thing to be simply against abortion and gay marriage. but don't tell me that both should be outlawed because your religion says so.
why dont you kill yourself and be done with it then? you get to meet god faster.
Depends on the definition of "bad people." It seems to me that bad people are the ones without the correct beliefs. If that's the case, then no. I would not look forward to that. I like a little more variety.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
then you must feel the same about me, cos he pretty much outlined my beliefs as well. i pray every night.. fancy that. yet here i am, reaming the religious folks. why? becos i find their arrogance far more offensive than the insecurity of atheists.
i don't think you go to heaven if you kill yourself. i think i heard that somewhere once.
Thank you.
I didn't want to single out Christianity over other religions... but, living in America, it ain't easy to avoid.
Trying to get religious beliefs into law... I am totally against it. and NOT just Christian belief... if Judaism or Islam or Scientology tried to pass legislation to favor their religion over others, I would be equally against it. We can see examples of religion and politics as one... all we need to do is look at the Middle East. I don't want that crap over here.
So... don't 'lead me in your prayers' and don't inject your religion into my country. You're supposed to have a personal relationship with Jesus, right?
Hail, Hail!!!
Usually philosophy has it's reasons and not just because god said so.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
yup. eliminate the middle man.
becos they have the soul-crushing torment of potentially having to live next to a homosexual and never even know it!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
No, philosophy is based on life experiences and morality. You can argue why something is wrong because you've see it's ill effects...you don't have to refer to the bible. If something is causing problems in society then you make laws but there has to be some sort of reason other than going against what your invisible god says.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
becos most people base their beliefs on statistics and practical realities. religious people base them on a book written 2000 years ago. we used to chop off people's hands for theft then, stone women who got raped, enslave those of different colored skin, etc etc. so tell me how you can say thing havent changed in 2000 years and our society should be set up exactly as it was at the dawn of civilization when society was built around tiny, wandering nomadic tribes that have a vested and compelling interest in making sure everybody that could was making babies?
when the SOLE merit of your legislation is "the bible said so" your legislation fails on its merits. period. and those who legislate the bible never have any other merit to back their ideas up. that is what they piss me off. there is nothing reasonable or compassionate about them.