World would be worse off without faith...

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Words exist as soon as they are spoken and have meaning for someone. She described what they meant to her.

    No that's not true. The words must describe something.

    I can say "Hey, I have a dionoidic prelifimater" doesn't mean shit, cause it doesn't exist.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    The problem here, again, Ahnimus is your assumptions. I am not talking about either the holographic theory of the universe, or fractal theories, both of which are science. I'm going beyond science to the parent of all sciences: philosophy. Science sprung from philosophy and is a part of the whole of philsophy and yet philosophy branches beyond the limits of science. We are operating on the level of logic and theory now. A different criteria is held for the world of pure concept. In order to learn and grow and expand, it is most effective to suspend judgment so as to be able to grasp the presented concepts. You have the ability to do so.

    Completely wrong, philosophy is not the parent of science. I'm sorry Angelica. But there is truly no discussing reality with you, because your beliefs are based on the words of science fiction authors. You use words that do not exist and describe systems that make no sense. Onelongsong has a better chance of convincing me God exists.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Angelica,

    definition of Holon from wikipedia

    In the philosophy of history, a holon is a historical event that makes other historical events inevitable.

    I.e. Determinism

    Defintion of Holon from M-W.com

    The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above

    And I understand what you are trying to say with your holon theory. I agree, but I think we can not possibly understand anything that exists beyond the realm of which we exist in and speculation about such realms is frivilous and possibly dangerous to our internal, subjective realities.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Angelica. You can't dismiss reality by making up words and metaphysical definitions for them. All you can do is confuse people.

    There is absolutely no evidence supporting your theory. There never will be, because as your theory defines it's self as metaphysical, it can not be measured. I put it in the same pile as God and Bigfoot.


    I find it to be quite short sighted to rule out new discoveries and our ability to learn new ways and explanations that were unheard of or even thought of before. We are limited as a species but we are evolving rapidly. It would be unfortunate hold on to old barriers and dismiss possibilty. We've came a long way in our colllection of knowledge but what is now known is not all there is to know.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No that's not true. The words must describe something.

    I can say "Hey, I have a dionoidic prelifimater" doesn't mean shit, cause it doesn't exist.

    It does to you. And once you describe what you mean to others then they'll understand, too.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    My theory of everything is almost identical. That we live in some kind of fractal universe. We can split particles until we blow ourselves to non-existence, but we will never find the smallest or largest particles.

    The chain of causation must either begin and end with infinity or begin where it ends and vice versa. It's logical to believe that the universe is infinitely vast, and that particles are infinitely small or large. Certainly that all makes perfect sense. But when you try to reach beyond that, to speculate about things that we will never ever be capable of understanding. Then you are just subscribing to faith and no amount of logic can convince me of something that requires faith.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    It does to you. And once you describe what you mean to others then they'll understand, too.

    It's a thing that does some thing to some other thing. When I make up 3 new words to describe those things people will understand?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It's a thing that does some thing to some other thing. When I make up 3 new words to describe those things people will understand?

    You have to make it so others can understand or else it will only be your language. You understand what she is describing, you just choose to disagree.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • brain of c
    brain of c Posts: 5,213
    two thousand years from now mutants will think stephen kings the stand is god's word of how they inherited the earth.
    d'oh!!!!!!

    http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
  • gossardstradlin
    gossardstradlin Posts: 324
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Hey, you don't see many Buddhist wars, do you?

    That's all I gotta say. They don't believe in a higher power and they get along better than those that do.

    The higher power does not exist. All that exists is matter and math.

    You're right. But don't they have a belief in something greater than themselves, like compassion and love?
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Ahnimus wrote:
    My theory of everything is almost identical. That we live in some kind of fractal universe. We can split particles until we blow ourselves to non-existence, but we will never find the smallest or largest particles.

    The chain of causation must either begin and end with infinity or begin where it ends and vice versa. It's logical to believe that the universe is infinitely vast, and that particles are infinitely small or large. Certainly that all makes perfect sense. But when you try to reach beyond that, to speculate about things that we will never ever be capable of understanding. Then you are just subscribing to faith and no amount of logic can convince me of something that requires faith.

    pass what your smoking this way :)
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    my2hands wrote:
    pass what your smoking this way :)

    I'm smoking a big fat scientific text book packed full of reality.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    You're right. But don't they have a belief in something greater than themselves, like compassion and love?

    Possibly. I don't honestly know or care much about Buddhism. It's just another doctrine to me, still I'm glad they are determinists.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Completely wrong, philosophy is not the parent of science. I'm sorry Angelica. But there is truly no discussing reality with you, because your beliefs are based on the words of science fiction authors. You use words that do not exist and describe systems that make no sense. Onelongsong has a better chance of convincing me God exists.
    Ahnimus, if you are not a natural philosopher, I will accept that. At this point, I suspect you are a natural philospher who hasn't quite gotten his philosphy wings. Why should you want you to enter the world of philosophy with me, you might wonder? because our filters for viewing reality are soooooo similar. People might think otherwise because what shows on this board is where we don't see eye to eye. Out of all the personality types of those I interact with, most people that I know who are natural intuitives, the form of intuition most of these people use is intuition that sees externally in the world. The way you and I are wired is different: we are naturally intuitive to the human psyche and its potential--we can see what to others does not exist on this level which is why we can understand psychological principles. We could complement one another's view productively, based on our differences, if it wouldn't be so like pulling teeth. We can overcome our communication/understanding problems of one another. Since we are both intuitive, and can see theories and concepts, and since that is where we meet in the middle, it makes sense that we step out of reality into the theoretical dimension of philosophy in order to imagine and comprehend what each other is talking about, rather than continue misunderstandings and judgments.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    You have to make it so others can understand or else it will only be your language. You understand what she is describing, you just choose to disagree.

    Not exactly. I understand the concept of a fractal. Fractals actually do exist in nature. They are a natural phenomena. Existence beyond existence, reality beyond reality and logic beyond logic don't make any sense. That's where I am lost in Angelica's theories. They are drastic leaps of faith into indescribable unmeasurable, speculative imagination.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Here you are, the universe
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bransleys_fern.png

    A very simple, illustration of a naturally occuring fractal.

    Each branch of the leaf, looks just like the entire leaf, and each branch of each branch of the leaf looks just like the entire leaf.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gossardstradlin
    gossardstradlin Posts: 324
    even flow? wrote:
    I guess you don't buy into the American culture????? From what I see and as it leaks up to here is that everybody is out for themselves and the one who has the biggest and most toys wins. And religion has nothing at all to do with that. So how do you blow that one off?

    Having to believe that the Earth is the only thing would probably make people treat the big blue ball a little better. After all there is no proof of a heaven or an after life, except for books. So before you take that leap of blind faith into the realm of unproven existance. Maybe, just maybe you and others should look at the gift of life from mother Earth as just more than some meaningless existance of a passing of time before you get to the promised land.

    Kind of like quitting smoking after you get lung cancer. Keep polluting the Earth and you won't have to believe in a god that created man in it's image just to kill the only planet that we know can sustain life. :rolleyes: Funny how people respected the Earth until somebody came up with that god given right to own pieces of it and sell it to the highest bidder. Which in turn took away the need for knowing your neighbour who would have helped you sustain a healthy life in exchange of prepacked garbage. Thank you god! For putting greed into the mix.

    EDIT: So why is there shrinks to help solve weak minded people's problems? Shouldn't they or can't god answer all those questions. Religion = the crutch for weak people who can't get through life by themselves. You know the same people who go crazy from being in a room by themselves for more than a day.

    I think you misunderstood my post. I don't believe I mentioned anything about a God or deity. S**t, how do I know if there is a promise land or not?
    But believing in something greater than ourselves isn't an easy way out or a ticket to f**k up the earth. Why does belief in something greater have to be about religion? It can be about faith in a religion, what about faith in past lives, faith in compassion.

    Sorry if I misled. But I do stick by my original statement. "The world is a better place with faith in something greater than ourselves."
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Ahnimus, if you are not a natural philosopher, I will accept that. At this point, I suspect you are a natural philospher who hasn't quite gotten his philosphy wings. Why should you want you to enter the world of philosophy with me, you might wonder? because our filters for viewing reality are soooooo similar. People might think otherwise because what shows on this board is where we don't see eye to eye. Out of all the personality types of those I interact with, most people that I know who are natural intuitives, the form of intuition most of these people use is intuition that sees externally in the world. The way you and I are wired is different: we are naturally intuitive to the human psyche and its potential--we can see what to others does not exist on this level which is why we can understand psychological principles. We could complement one another's view productively, based on our differences, if it wouldn't be so like pulling teeth. We can overcome our communication/understanding problems of one another. Since we are both intuitive, and can see theories and concepts, and since that is where we meet in the middle, it makes sense that we step out of reality into the theoretical dimension of philosophy in order to imagine and comprehend what each other is talking about, rather than continue misunderstandings and judgments.

    Absolutely, we think almost identically. Except that I do not believe in things that have no proof. I do not consider any existence of reality beyond reality because it cannot be proven and considering it as a possibility is rather pointless.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    I have faith that at some point during the course of a 24-hour day I'll get a boner.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    Sorry if I misled. But I do stick by my original statement. "The world is a better place with faith in something greater than ourselves."

    I don't see how.

    Is a child's life better if they believe in Santa Clause than if they do not... I've yet to see any evidence suggesting that it is. In-fact, such belief simply raises greater dillemas down the road.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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