World would be worse off without faith...

gossardstradlin

...in something greater than ourselves.

angelica

:eek:

*runs frantically for cover before the onslaught starts*

rigneyclan

gossardstradlin wrote:

...in something greater than ourselves.

...in your opinion...

prism

rigneyclan wrote:

...in your opinion...

amen

gossardstradlin

angelica wrote:

:eek:

*runs frantically for cover before the onslaught starts*

I appreciate your concern. Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.

gossardstradlin

rigneyclan wrote:

...in your opinion...

Absolutely.

Abookamongstthemany

'Spirit moves through all things'



Science ~ System of a Down

Making two possibilities a reality,
Predicting the future of things we all know,
Fighting off the diseased programming
Of centuries, centuries, centuries, centuries.

Science fails to recognize the single most
Potent element of human existence
letting the reigns go to the unfolding
Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

Science has failed our world
Science has failed our Mother Earth.

Science fails to recognize the single most
Potent element of human existence
letting the reigns go to the unfolding
Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

Science has failed our world
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things.

letting the reigns go to the unfolding
Is faith, faith, faith, faith
letting the reigns go to the unfolding
Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

Science has failed our world
Science has failed our Mother Earth.

Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Science has failed our Mother Earth.

Vedderlution_Baby

gossardstradlin wrote:

I appreciate your concern. Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.

But maybe more people would stop and think about actions if they knew that this were it. I got no problem with faith, i think it's helped a lot of people through some tough times.

Scubascott

gossardstradlin wrote:

I appreciate your concern. Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.

Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'

Cosmo

I have nothing against faith... I believe it is a good thing... just like hope.
The problem I have is with the people who use their faith as some sort of bizarre leverage bar to crack on the heads of people they don't like.
If you are one of those people who do that... be you Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever... I have nothing against you because of your faith... I'm against you because I think you are an asshole.

gossardstradlin

Scubascott wrote:

Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'

It is pessimistic. Which is funny because I consider myself an optimist. lol. However I have a hard time believing that we would say, "Let's get our act together." I would say that is unrealistic, although I would like to believe it. Without knowing you and others on the board I would like to say that I would look out for my fellow humans, and you would too, but what about humanity in general.

Faith in a higher entity or some form of connectedness is comforting and does keep some moral order. Can reason alone save us????

Commy

Scubascott wrote:

Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'

no shit. fuck those people...from George Bush to OBL.

soulsinging

gossardstradlin wrote:

I appreciate your concern. Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.

what would stop people is the knowledge that if you're bad enough, your fellows won't like it and will lay the smack down on you. religion is not necessary to enforce codes of behavior.

that said, the world be no better or worse off with or without religion. things would go on much as they do now.

Abookamongstthemany

Scubascott wrote:

Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'

I believe spirit embodies us all. I don't see it as some rigid system of rules, judgement and condemnation. I believe all of us humans have the potential to become one with or 'align' with this spirit that speaks to us and flows through us everyday. Some choose to see this as becoming one with a God apart from ourselves, a God we must submit to and express to him our guilt for living. I don't see this. I feel that spirituality involves the good and the bad of life and doesn't reject or judge. Spirituality lifts us up high and helps us to see the beauty in the worlld and inside ourselves. It lifts us above the petty acknowledgement of our differences that tear us apart but teaches us to love our differences because we all have a purpose and something to give. Spirituality works to unite us a one through compassion, undertsanding, and love.

mookie blaylock 10

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I believe spirit embodies us all. I don't see it as some rigid system of rules, judgement and condemnation. I believe all of us humans have the potential to become one with or 'align' with this spirit that speaks to us and flows through us everyday. Some choose to see this as becoming one with a God apart from ourselves, a God we must submit to and express to him our guilt for living. I don't see this. I feel that spirituality involves the good and the bad of life and doesn't reject or judge. Spirituality lifts us up high and helps us to see the beauty in the worlld and inside ourselves. It lifts us above the petty acknowledgement of our differences that tear us apart but teaches us to love our differences because we all have a purpose and something to give. Spirituality works to unite us a one through compassion, undertsanding, and love.

very well said.

Scubascott

gossardstradlin wrote:

It is pessimistic. Which is funny because I consider myself an optimist. lol. However I have a hard time believing that we would say, "Let's get our act together." I would say that is unrealistic, although I would like to believe it. Without knowing you and others on the board I would like to say that I would look out for my fellow humans, and you would too, but what about humanity in general.

Faith in a higher entity or some form of connectedness is comforting and does keep some moral order. Can reason alone save us????

I hate to say so, but I'm afraid that I think I agree with the first part of your post. I don't think that faith in a higher power is the answer though. I think all faith does is allow people to pass the buck.

How about faith that Pearl Jam will always put on the best bloody rock show on the planet? At least that's something that people on this board can share. . .

jubilairesjl

People need to hope to survive....without faith is there any hope? I think those things go hand in hand.

Abookamongstthemany

http://www.northernsun.com/images/thumb/1719.jpg

hippiemom

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I believe spirit embodies us all. I don't see it as some rigid system of rules, judgement and condemnation. I believe all of us humans have the potential to become one with or 'align' with this spirit that speaks to us and flows through us everyday. Some choose to see this as becoming one with a God apart from ourselves, a God we must submit to and express to him our guilt for living. I don't see this. I feel that spirituality involves the good and the bad of life and doesn't reject or judge. Spirituality lifts us up high and helps us to see the beauty in the worlld and inside ourselves. It lifts us above the petty acknowledgement of our differences that tear us apart but teaches us to love our differences because we all have a purpose and something to give. Spirituality works to unite us a one through compassion, undertsanding, and love.

I believe something similar, I think. I think that our universe is infinitely more complex than we realize, that there are forces at play that most of us can't even conceive of, much less access ... ways of communicating, bonds that tie us all together, different concepts of time, etc. We're vaguely aware of them in a sort of subconscious way, and religions have sprung up throughout the ages in an attempt to explain the unexplainable. What I totally reject is any supernatural explanation for any of it ... some unseen being (or group of beings) pulling the cosmic strings from afar, making rules, making judgments, sending people to heaven or hell. I think it is all very natural, organic, very "real," and if we don't destroy ourselves we will one day evolve to understand it all more clearly.

I realize this is very vague and oversimplified, but I just woke up and I'm a little groggy, it's the best I can do at the moment, lol

I can see where an organized religion would have been beneficial in earlier societies, but today I think it does more harm than good and we'd be better off without it. I wholeheartedly believe that people can be their best selves without a scary man in the sky threatening them with eternity in a lake of fire, or the thought of spending 10,000 years as a dung beetle, or any other fear tactics that organized religions employ in an attempt to frighten people into doing what they're told. I know many atheists who prove my point very nicely, day in and day out. I myself am very hopeful, without any faith at all, so I know you don't need faith to have hope.

Actually, like most people, I spent many years believing (or trying to convince myself that I believed) in the religion I was taught as a child. When that completely fell apart for me, I spent many more years exploring other religions. I've been infinitely more hopeful and more at peace with myself and the world around me since I gave it all up.

Ahnimus

Hey, you don't see many Buddhist wars, do you?

That's all I gotta say. They don't believe in a higher power and they get along better than those that do.

The higher power does not exist. All that exists is matter and math.

Jeanie

Scubascott wrote:

Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'

I like this explanation.