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World would be worse off without faith...

gossardstradlingossardstradlin Posts: 324
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
...in something greater than ourselves.
"She knows there is no success like failure
And that failure's no success at all."

"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    :eek:

    *runs frantically for cover before the onslaught starts*
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • rigneyclanrigneyclan Posts: 289
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    ...in something greater than ourselves.

    ...in your opinion...
    7/16/06 7/18/06
  • prismprism Posts: 2,440
    rigneyclan wrote:
    ...in your opinion...

    amen
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
  • gossardstradlingossardstradlin Posts: 324
    angelica wrote:
    :eek:

    *runs frantically for cover before the onslaught starts*

    I appreciate your concern. :) Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

    I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

    Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • gossardstradlingossardstradlin Posts: 324
    rigneyclan wrote:
    ...in your opinion...

    Absolutely.
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    'Spirit moves through all things'



    Science ~ System of a Down

    Making two possibilities a reality,
    Predicting the future of things we all know,
    Fighting off the diseased programming
    Of centuries, centuries, centuries, centuries.

    Science fails to recognize the single most
    Potent element of human existence
    letting the reigns go to the unfolding
    Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

    Science has failed our world
    Science has failed our Mother Earth.

    Science fails to recognize the single most
    Potent element of human existence
    letting the reigns go to the unfolding
    Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

    Science has failed our world
    Science has failed our Mother Earth.
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things.

    letting the reigns go to the unfolding
    Is faith, faith, faith, faith
    letting the reigns go to the unfolding
    Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

    Science has failed our world
    Science has failed our Mother Earth.

    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things,
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Spirit-moves-through-all-things
    Science has failed our Mother Earth.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Vedderlution_BabyVedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    I appreciate your concern. :) Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

    I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

    Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.


    But maybe more people would stop and think about actions if they knew that this were it. I got no problem with faith, i think it's helped a lot of people through some tough times.
  • ScubascottScubascott Posts: 815
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    I appreciate your concern. :) Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

    I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

    Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.

    Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I have nothing against faith... I believe it is a good thing... just like hope.
    The problem I have is with the people who use their faith as some sort of bizarre leverage bar to crack on the heads of people they don't like.
    If you are one of those people who do that... be you Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever... I have nothing against you because of your faith... I'm against you because I think you are an asshole.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • gossardstradlingossardstradlin Posts: 324
    Scubascott wrote:
    Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'

    It is pessimistic. Which is funny because I consider myself an optimist. lol. However I have a hard time believing that we would say, "Let's get our act together." I would say that is unrealistic, although I would like to believe it. Without knowing you and others on the board I would like to say that I would look out for my fellow humans, and you would too, but what about humanity in general.

    Faith in a higher entity or some form of connectedness is comforting and does keep some moral order. Can reason alone save us????
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Scubascott wrote:
    Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'
    no shit. fuck those people...from George Bush to OBL.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    I appreciate your concern. :) Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

    I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

    Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.

    what would stop people is the knowledge that if you're bad enough, your fellows won't like it and will lay the smack down on you. religion is not necessary to enforce codes of behavior.

    that said, the world be no better or worse off with or without religion. things would go on much as they do now.
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Scubascott wrote:
    Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'

    I believe spirit embodies us all. I don't see it as some rigid system of rules, judgement and condemnation. I believe all of us humans have the potential to become one with or 'align' with this spirit that speaks to us and flows through us everyday. Some choose to see this as becoming one with a God apart from ourselves, a God we must submit to and express to him our guilt for living. I don't see this. I feel that spirituality involves the good and the bad of life and doesn't reject or judge. Spirituality lifts us up high and helps us to see the beauty in the worlld and inside ourselves. It lifts us above the petty acknowledgement of our differences that tear us apart but teaches us to love our differences because we all have a purpose and something to give. Spirituality works to unite us a one through compassion, undertsanding, and love.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • mookie blaylock 10mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I believe spirit embodies us all. I don't see it as some rigid system of rules, judgement and condemnation. I believe all of us humans have the potential to become one with or 'align' with this spirit that speaks to us and flows through us everyday. Some choose to see this as becoming one with a God apart from ourselves, a God we must submit to and express to him our guilt for living. I don't see this. I feel that spirituality involves the good and the bad of life and doesn't reject or judge. Spirituality lifts us up high and helps us to see the beauty in the worlld and inside ourselves. It lifts us above the petty acknowledgement of our differences that tear us apart but teaches us to love our differences because we all have a purpose and something to give. Spirituality works to unite us a one through compassion, undertsanding, and love.


    very well said. :)
  • ScubascottScubascott Posts: 815
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    It is pessimistic. Which is funny because I consider myself an optimist. lol. However I have a hard time believing that we would say, "Let's get our act together." I would say that is unrealistic, although I would like to believe it. Without knowing you and others on the board I would like to say that I would look out for my fellow humans, and you would too, but what about humanity in general.

    Faith in a higher entity or some form of connectedness is comforting and does keep some moral order. Can reason alone save us????

    I hate to say so, but I'm afraid that I think I agree with the first part of your post. I don't think that faith in a higher power is the answer though. I think all faith does is allow people to pass the buck.

    How about faith that Pearl Jam will always put on the best bloody rock show on the planet? At least that's something that people on this board can share. . .
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • jubilairesjljubilairesjl Posts: 498
    People need to hope to survive....without faith is there any hope? I think those things go hand in hand.
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  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    http://www.northernsun.com/images/thumb/1719.jpg
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I believe spirit embodies us all. I don't see it as some rigid system of rules, judgement and condemnation. I believe all of us humans have the potential to become one with or 'align' with this spirit that speaks to us and flows through us everyday. Some choose to see this as becoming one with a God apart from ourselves, a God we must submit to and express to him our guilt for living. I don't see this. I feel that spirituality involves the good and the bad of life and doesn't reject or judge. Spirituality lifts us up high and helps us to see the beauty in the worlld and inside ourselves. It lifts us above the petty acknowledgement of our differences that tear us apart but teaches us to love our differences because we all have a purpose and something to give. Spirituality works to unite us a one through compassion, undertsanding, and love.
    I believe something similar, I think. I think that our universe is infinitely more complex than we realize, that there are forces at play that most of us can't even conceive of, much less access ... ways of communicating, bonds that tie us all together, different concepts of time, etc. We're vaguely aware of them in a sort of subconscious way, and religions have sprung up throughout the ages in an attempt to explain the unexplainable. What I totally reject is any supernatural explanation for any of it ... some unseen being (or group of beings) pulling the cosmic strings from afar, making rules, making judgments, sending people to heaven or hell. I think it is all very natural, organic, very "real," and if we don't destroy ourselves we will one day evolve to understand it all more clearly.

    I realize this is very vague and oversimplified, but I just woke up and I'm a little groggy, it's the best I can do at the moment, lol :o

    I can see where an organized religion would have been beneficial in earlier societies, but today I think it does more harm than good and we'd be better off without it. I wholeheartedly believe that people can be their best selves without a scary man in the sky threatening them with eternity in a lake of fire, or the thought of spending 10,000 years as a dung beetle, or any other fear tactics that organized religions employ in an attempt to frighten people into doing what they're told. I know many atheists who prove my point very nicely, day in and day out. I myself am very hopeful, without any faith at all, so I know you don't need faith to have hope.

    Actually, like most people, I spent many years believing (or trying to convince myself that I believed) in the religion I was taught as a child. When that completely fell apart for me, I spent many more years exploring other religions. I've been infinitely more hopeful and more at peace with myself and the world around me since I gave it all up.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Hey, you don't see many Buddhist wars, do you?

    That's all I gotta say. They don't believe in a higher power and they get along better than those that do.

    The higher power does not exist. All that exists is matter and math.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Scubascott wrote:
    Thats the pessimist's view. You could say that if all we had to believe in was ourselves and each other we might, as a species, get our act together and realise that we only get one life each, and we only have one planet to live it on, so we'd better make the most of it and stop trashing the place. . . rather than just saying 'the hell with it, I'm going somewhere better when I die anyway'

    :) I like this explanation.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Scubascott wrote:
    ................How about faith that Pearl Jam will always put on the best bloody rock show on the planet? At least that's something that people on this board can share. . .

    :) Another excellent post scott. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I believe spirit embodies us all. I don't see it as some rigid system of rules, judgement and condemnation. I believe all of us humans have the potential to become one with or 'align' with this spirit that speaks to us and flows through us everyday. Some choose to see this as becoming one with a God apart from ourselves, a God we must submit to and express to him our guilt for living. I don't see this. I feel that spirituality involves the good and the bad of life and doesn't reject or judge. Spirituality lifts us up high and helps us to see the beauty in the worlld and inside ourselves. It lifts us above the petty acknowledgement of our differences that tear us apart but teaches us to love our differences because we all have a purpose and something to give. Spirituality works to unite us a one through compassion, undertsanding, and love.

    That's beautiful abook. :) I agree with this too. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    hippiemom wrote:
    I believe something similar, I think. I think that our universe is infinitely more complex than we realize, that there are forces at play that most of us can't even conceive of, much less access ... ways of communicating, bonds that tie us all together, different concepts of time, etc. We're vaguely aware of them in a sort of subconscious way, and religions have sprung up throughout the ages in an attempt to explain the unexplainable. What I totally reject is any supernatural explanation for any of it ... some unseen being (or group of beings) pulling the cosmic strings from afar, making rules, making judgments, sending people to heaven or hell. I think it is all very natural, organic, very "real," and if we don't destroy ourselves we will one day evolve to understand it all more clearly.

    I realize this is very vague and oversimplified, but I just woke up and I'm a little groggy, it's the best I can do at the moment, lol :o

    I can see where an organized religion would have been beneficial in earlier societies, but today I think it does more harm than good and we'd be better off without it. I wholeheartedly believe that people can be their best selves without a scary man in the sky threatening them with eternity in a lake of fire, or the thought of spending 10,000 years as a dung beetle, or any other fear tactics that organized religions employ in an attempt to frighten people into doing what they're told. I know many atheists who prove my point very nicely, day in and day out. I myself am very hopeful, without any faith at all, so I know you don't need faith to have hope.

    Actually, like most people, I spent many years believing (or trying to convince myself that I believed) in the religion I was taught as a child. When that completely fell apart for me, I spent many more years exploring other religions. I've been infinitely more hopeful and more at peace with myself and the world around me since I gave it all up.

    And I agree with you too mom. :) Excellent post from a sleepy girl. ;)

    I didn't find it vague at all. Makes perfect sense to me. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Hey, you don't see many Buddhist wars, do you?

    That's all I gotta say. They don't believe in a higher power and they get along better than those that do.

    The higher power does not exist. All that exists is matter and math.

    Not that I don't agree with you Ahnimus, because you don't see MANY Buddhist wars but I'm pretty sure that some Buddhists have no hesitation to fight. Here's an interesting link. I can't find what I'm looking for right now but I distinctly remember watching footage of Buddhist Monks burning, slashing and fighting against someone, the Tamils I think. But don't quote me. The reason remember it is because I was shocked at the violence that I saw being used by the monks and it seemed sooo wrong to me.


    http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34382
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Jeanie wrote:
    Not that I don't agree with you Ahnimus, because you don't see MANY Buddhist wars but I'm pretty sure that some Buddhists have no hesitation to fight. Here's an interesting link. I can't find what I'm looking for right now but I distinctly remember watching footage of Buddhist Monks burning, slashing and fighting against someone, the Tamils I think. But don't quote me. The reason remember it is because I was shocked at the violence that I saw being used by the monks and it seemed sooo wrong to me.


    http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34382

    Hmm, I wonder if our Monk brothers and sisters lost sight of their values. Or perhaps fighting is sometimes condoned by even Monks.

    Still, statistically speaking, we don't see many.

    Thanks for the link Jeanie :)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Hmm, I wonder if our Monk brothers and sisters lost sight of their values. Or perhaps fighting is sometimes condoned by even Monks.

    Still, statistically speaking, we don't see many.

    Thanks for the link Jeanie :)


    No worries Ahnimus. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • brain of cbrain of c Posts: 5,213
    faith has killed millions........

    God, God is on our side, he placed the
    power in our handsTo teach the yellow peril, this is
    christian mercy
    Harry, harry give ’em hell, give ’em hell
    one more time again
    We’ll show those axis powers how to
    make an oven [fry them]
    d'oh!!!!!!

    http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
  • HoonHoon Posts: 175
    brain of c wrote:
    faith has killed millions........

    God, God is on our side, he placed the
    power in our handsTo teach the yellow peril, this is
    christian mercy
    Harry, harry give ’em hell, give ’em hell
    one more time again
    We’ll show those axis powers how to
    make an oven [fry them]

    shit
    If you keep yourself as the final arbiter you will be less susceptible to infection from cultural illusion.
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    brain of c wrote:
    faith has killed millions........

    God, God is on our side, he placed the
    power in our handsTo teach the yellow peril, this is
    christian mercy
    Harry, harry give ’em hell, give ’em hell
    one more time again
    We’ll show those axis powers how to
    make an oven [fry them]

    Well seeing as how I reckon that's the most I've ever seen you post, I had to investigate! ;)

    From the song Hiroshima by Utopia? And what amazing lyrics! Wish I had broadband so I could download and listen. :o

    Nice post c. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • ScubascottScubascott Posts: 815
    hippiemom wrote:
    I think that our universe is infinitely more complex than we realize, that there are forces at play that most of us can't even conceive of, much less access ... ways of communicating, bonds that tie us all together, different concepts of time, etc. We're vaguely aware of them in a sort of subconscious way, . . . I think it is all very natural, organic, very "real," and if we don't destroy ourselves we will one day evolve to understand it all more clearly.

    I understand where you're coming from. This is more or less how I feel too. You can kind of sum it all up (the mystery of universe) with the word 'God'. That's what Einstein meant when he referred to God. He wasn't talking about some supernatural, omnipresent deity dreamed up in the mind of man, he was talking about the forces that hold the universe together, the mystery and the beauty and the complexity of it all. I find it much more exciting to ponder those mysteries and feel completely awed by them than to try to explain it all away with a supernatural god.
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
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