Gay Marriage Ban

FiveB247x

This debate is not merely about calling another person your spouse, it is about the rights you have when you're allowed to call someone your spouse according to law (which is discrimination when they are not given to you based up sexual preference).

ledvedderman

jlew24asu wrote:

know1 wrote:

I'm simply saying we all have the same rights currently. We can all marry someone from the opposite sex.

but that is so completely irrelevant to this debate. dont u get that?

Jlew, we all have the same rights. A gay man can get married if he wants to...just not to another man.

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

know1 wrote:

I'm simply saying we all have the same rights currently. We can all marry someone from the opposite sex.

but that is so completely irrelevant to this debate. dont u get that?

Jlew, we all have the same rights. A gay man can get married if he wants to...just not to another man.

LOL am I crazy or something!?!?!!?!

norm

Bush v. Gore lawyers take on gay marriage ban


LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – Two lawyers who squared off in the legal case that determined the 2000 U.S. presidential election joined forces on Wednesday to ask a federal court to halt California's same-sex marriage ban, despite warnings from gay rights advocates not to mount a federal challenge.

Ted Olson and David Boies, who opposed each other in the Bush v. Gore Supreme Court case, said that gays and lesbians were made into second-class citizens by California's voter-approved ban, known as Proposition 8.

They sued on behalf of two same-sex couples who want to marry but cannot because of the Prop 8's passage.

California's supreme court on Tuesday upheld the initiative, approved by voters in November. The decision said California's state constitution allows voters to make such changes despite broad protection for same-sex couples.

Prop 8 ended a brief period of legal same-sex marriage in California, begun when the same court opened the door to gay nuptials early in 2008.

Gay rights advocates, fearing a loss in the socially conservative top U.S. court, have avoided going to federal court after other state ballot box losses.

"A federal lawsuit at this time is terribly risky," said Jenny Pizer, one of the lawyers for Lambda Legal who argued against Prop 8 before the California court.

Her organization, the American Civil Liberties Union and others said in a statement, "without more groundwork, the U.S. Supreme Court likely is not yet ready to rule that same-sex couples cannot be barred from marriage."

Olson, who represented then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush, and Boies, who represented then-Vice President Al Gore in 2000, jointly filed the lawsuit on Friday, before the California court acted.

On Wednesday they asked for an injunction on Prop 8. In the lawsuit they argue that Proposition 8 violates the U.S. constitutional amendment guaranteeing equal rights and due process.

"This unequal treatment of gays and lesbians denies them the basic liberties and equal protection under the law that are guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution," the lawsuit reads.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090527/us_ ... rnia_court

decides2dream

jlew24asu wrote:

LOL am I crazy or something!?!?!!?!

apparently.....
tho it's definitely nice to agree with you now and again......;)



norm - EXACTLY!
*thumbs up*
btw - we do we have not one but TWO emoticons for being a geek....but absolutely ZERO for a thumbs up? is it some social commentary on internet discussion boards?

soulsinging

know1 wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

know1 wrote:

(I'm playing devil's advocate on some of this. I'm not opposed to gay marriage)

No I wouldn't be OK with banning gay people from attending public schools, but that is completely different.

Can you tell me that a gay person is banned from marrying in this country? If they choose to marry someone of the opposite sex, they can get married just like I can if I choose to marry someone from the opposite sex. They are not banned from marrying and they have the same rights technically speaking.

Then for the sake of devil's advocacy, how is it completely different? School and marriage are both privileges, not rights. Why is it ok to exclude people from one and not the other?

Comparing again to schools, you get to pick your school of choice. Gay people cannot pick their partner of choice. That's why your point about equal rights to marry the opposite sex doesn't hold water. It SOUNDS good and logical, but it's not. By the same equally lame brand of logic I could say you have a right to marry a woman that other men have, but not other women. So your right to marry a woman is denied to women, thus not equal. Not very convincing is it? Because it's inherently arbitrary... you're starting from the point that only opposite sex partnerships deserve recognition, which is a moral judgment call the government has no business making, just as the government should not be saying white males are the only ones that deserve schooling, and so other groups should be left out of the "privilege" of a public education.

I'm simply saying we all have the same rights currently. We can all marry someone from the opposite sex.

You didn't say how school and marriage are completely different... why is it ok to exclude gay people from the privilege of marriage but not from the privilege of school? Why are they so completely different?

As jlew pointed out, that is totally irrelevant. Look at it this way: back when interracial marriages were illegal, we all had the equal right to marry someone of the opposite sex and the same race. Is that ok? We're just putting qualifications on who you are allowed to marry and we all have equal rights within those limitations.

soulsinging

ledvedderman wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

know1 wrote:

I'm simply saying we all have the same rights currently. We can all marry someone from the opposite sex.

but that is so completely irrelevant to this debate. dont u get that?

Jlew, we all have the same rights. A gay man can get married if he wants to...just not to another man.

A black man can attend school if he wants to, just not the white school. They have the same rights, we just tell them how they can exercise them.

Anon

inmytree wrote:

save the drama...you act as if gays have been tossed in the gulag...

It has already been previously mentioned that the use of the word "drama" means you must be gay. It is also worth noting the gay guy brought up the stereotype. Is that allowed in a similar way when black people call each other the n word? So just don't do it if you are white and straight.

inmytree

JB811 wrote:

inmytree wrote:

save the drama...you act as if gays have been tossed in the gulag...

It has already been previously mentioned that the use of the word "drama" means you must be gay. It is also worth noting the gay guy brought up the stereotype. Is that allowed in a similar way when black people call each other the n word? So just don't do it if you are white and straight.

perhaps you should save the drama for someone who cares...

Prince Of Dorkness

Telling me that I can get married but to someone of the opposite sex is mean-spirited and shows that SOME straight people think of marriage as some football they should try to keep away from us. Marriage is supposed to be an institution that protects a couple living together in a loving relationship, not just some legal arrangement made between two people.

Telling me I should leave my partner of 17 years if I want to get married is like telling the kid who's allergic to peanuts that he has the right to eat them and it's his own fault if he goes hungry if that's what they're serving.

I don't want the right to "marry," I want my relationship to be legally recognized and protected. I want for my family to have the same rights as the rights of my sister (who has married three times in the time I've been with my husband, by the way). When people start to make comments like "You can get married to a woman," you know that the anti-gay movement is running out of arguments and are now just being mean.

keeponrockin

soulsinging wrote:

A black man can attend school if he wants to, just not the white school. They have the same rights, we just tell them how they can exercise them.

*APPLAUDS*

Seriously, best post I've read in a while.

know1

soulsinging wrote:

You didn't say how school and marriage are completely different... why is it ok to exclude gay people from the privilege of marriage but not from the privilege of school? Why are they so completely different?

The difference is that the white person can't CHOOSE to be black and then go to the black school or vice versa. In the case of marriage, they can still choose to marry (even if it goes against their nature. Heck, sometimes marriage goes against my nature, but I still chose it.)

jlew24asu

know1 wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

You didn't say how school and marriage are completely different... why is it ok to exclude gay people from the privilege of marriage but not from the privilege of school? Why are they so completely different?

The difference is that the white person can't CHOOSE to be black and then go to the black school or vice versa. In the case of marriage, they can still choose to marry (even if it goes against their nature. Heck, sometimes marriage goes against my nature, but I still chose it.)

would you be implying that being gay is a choice?

know1

jlew24asu wrote:

know1 wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

You didn't say how school and marriage are completely different... why is it ok to exclude gay people from the privilege of marriage but not from the privilege of school? Why are they so completely different?

The difference is that the white person can't CHOOSE to be black and then go to the black school or vice versa. In the case of marriage, they can still choose to marry (even if it goes against their nature. Heck, sometimes marriage goes against my nature, but I still chose it.)

would you be implying that being gay is a choice?

Absolutely not. I've said that a couple of times. I also made that comment about going against their nature to show that I wasn't.

That being said, I do believe there is a choice to whether you act upon being gay just like there is a choice to any of our actions.

know1

Jasunmark wrote:

Telling me that I can get married but to someone of the opposite sex is mean-spirited and shows that SOME straight people think of marriage as some football they should try to keep away from us. Marriage is supposed to be an institution that protects a couple living together in a loving relationship, not just some legal arrangement made between two people.

Telling me I should leave my partner of 17 years if I want to get married is like telling the kid who's allergic to peanuts that he has the right to eat them and it's his own fault if he goes hungry if that's what they're serving.

I don't want the right to "marry," I want my relationship to be legally recognized and protected. I want for my family to have the same rights as the rights of my sister (who has married three times in the time I've been with my husband, by the way). When people start to make comments like "You can get married to a woman," you know that the anti-gay movement is running out of arguments and are now just being mean.

Not trying to antagonize you by any means. I'm not opposed to gay marriage, but rather pointing out that arguments I hear from both sides as to why or why not it should be legal haven't swayed me.

ledvedderman

Sooooo, be a gay man but choose to marry a woman. The point of this would be to....get busted having a gay affair and ruining your "wife" and possible childrens life?

jlew24asu

know1 wrote:

Jasunmark wrote:

Telling me that I can get married but to someone of the opposite sex is mean-spirited and shows that SOME straight people think of marriage as some football they should try to keep away from us. Marriage is supposed to be an institution that protects a couple living together in a loving relationship, not just some legal arrangement made between two people.

Telling me I should leave my partner of 17 years if I want to get married is like telling the kid who's allergic to peanuts that he has the right to eat them and it's his own fault if he goes hungry if that's what they're serving.

I don't want the right to "marry," I want my relationship to be legally recognized and protected. I want for my family to have the same rights as the rights of my sister (who has married three times in the time I've been with my husband, by the way). When people start to make comments like "You can get married to a woman," you know that the anti-gay movement is running out of arguments and are now just being mean.

Not trying to antagonize you by any means. I'm not opposed to gay marriage, but rather pointing out that arguments I hear from both sides as to why or why not it should be legal haven't swayed me.

well what reasons sway you towards the direction of banning gay marriage?

decides2dream

ledvedderman wrote:

Sooooo, be a gay man but choose to marry a woman. The point of this would be to....get busted having a gay affair and ruining your "wife" and possible childrens life?

seriously.
and honestly, this has happened a LOT in the past, when being homosexual was deemed entirely unacceptible. it's a ridiculous concept. i also know of a woman, in todays' times...who this very thing happened. luckily no kids involved, but seriously....7 or 10 years of marriage.....and then find our your spouse is gay? it was devestating and tragic for all involved. surely, they are both happier people today, seperately......but it's just plain CRAZY that 'being gay' is still ostracized, and that homosexuals do not have the ACTUAL options of heterosexuals, meaning - getting to marry those whom they truly want to spend their lives with, being able to legally protect themselves and their partners with the many benefits of marriage.

know1

jlew24asu wrote:

know1 wrote:

Jasunmark wrote:

Telling me that I can get married but to someone of the opposite sex is mean-spirited and shows that SOME straight people think of marriage as some football they should try to keep away from us. Marriage is supposed to be an institution that protects a couple living together in a loving relationship, not just some legal arrangement made between two people.

Telling me I should leave my partner of 17 years if I want to get married is like telling the kid who's allergic to peanuts that he has the right to eat them and it's his own fault if he goes hungry if that's what they're serving.

I don't want the right to "marry," I want my relationship to be legally recognized and protected. I want for my family to have the same rights as the rights of my sister (who has married three times in the time I've been with my husband, by the way). When people start to make comments like "You can get married to a woman," you know that the anti-gay movement is running out of arguments and are now just being mean.

Not trying to antagonize you by any means. I'm not opposed to gay marriage, but rather pointing out that arguments I hear from both sides as to why or why not it should be legal haven't swayed me.

well what reasons sway you towards the direction of banning gay marriage?

I'm not in favor of banning it. I'm in favor of the government not sanctioning marriage whatsoever and simply allowing adults to mutually convey all rights and privileges normally associated with a married couple to one other consenting adult.

jlew24asu

know1 wrote:

I'm not in favor of banning it. I'm in favor of the government not sanctioning marriage whatsoever and simply allowing adults to mutually convey all rights and privileges normally associated with a married couple to one other consenting adult.

lol so you are for it?