I guess when one is out of arguments, one turns to flippancy aimed at other posters.... :roll:
In the UK, like in many other countries, same sex MARRIAGE is not legal. Here we have the civil unions/partnerships that confer all the same rights and responsibilities as a marriage (ie insurance policies, etc.) but falls short of a 'marriage'. I think it's different to the US where currently the rights of a partnership in a civil union are not the same. So a bit better for gay people here. Part of the coalition government here is pushing for same sex MARRIAGE, but the other half won't hear of it.
From Wiki (I know...) but this explains it a bit better than I can.
"Aside from the manner in which couples register and the non-use of the word "marriage", civil partnerships and civil marriages give exactly the same legal rights and operate under the same constrictions and it is not legal to be in both a civil partnership and a marriage at the same time. Nevertheless, some of those in favour of legal same-sex marriage object that civil partnerships fall short of granting equality. They see legal marriage and civil partnerships as artificially segregated institutions, and draw parallels with the racial segregation of the United States' past. Civil partnership ceremonies are prohibited by law from including religious readings, symbols or music, even if the church involved supports such use.[37]
Both same-sex marriages and civil unions of other nations will be automatically considered civil partnerships under UK law providing they came within Section 20 of the Act. This means, in some cases, non-Britons from nations with civil unions will have greater rights in the UK than in their native countries. For example, a Vermont civil union would have legal standing in the UK, however in cases where one partner was American and the other British, the Vermont civil union would not provide the Briton with right of abode in Vermont (or any other US state or territory), whereas it would provide the American with right of abode in the UK."
I can't believe you just said "don't put me down" and then said his "true nature" was less than respectful all in the same sentence. Let's remember the posting guidelines, personal attacks and such. And judging, too. I know that's something you try to avoid.
I did not put him down I said his true nature is showing in his posts, rude and disrespectful
and it was pretty obviously. :nono:
But thanks for letting me know how you feel :fp:
I think it is clear though if one wants equality for gay unions
and wants an amendment protecting this their motives are pure.
you keep calling it gay UNIONS. MARRIAGE equality is what we want here. marriage is a union between 2 people so lets just call gay union what is it... GAY MARRIAGE.
As I mentioned to gimme...
fine then the battle will go on perhaps even decades this while gay unions
do not have legal equality or are unrecognized all together as yesterday's vote.
I would like to see better for my friends who are approaching the age of leaving this world.
Gay marriage must be legal then in Australia good job,
I'm sure you got out there and supported hard to make that happen.
What year was it legalized? Any advice for America I know you have lots of input
for the US
then so be it. why should gays settle?
and no there is no marriage equality in australia.. why make that assumption?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
this is not going to come to a national vote. this is going to take an act of congress and the signature of a president, just as every other landmark granting of rights to perticular groups...the same rights that ALL of us are BORN with.
it is shameful in 2012 that people have to qualify "unions" or "gay marriage" as anything other than "marriage".
gay MARRIAGE now!
i am just interested for the sake of discussion, what are the ages of the people on this forum who are debating against gay marriage?
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
this is not going to come to a national vote. this is going to take an act of congress and the signature of a president, just as every other landmark granting of rights to perticular groups...the same rights that ALL of us are BORN with.
it is shameful in 2012 that people have to qualify "unions" or "gay marriage" as anything other than "marriage".
gay MARRIAGE now!
i am just interested for the sake of discussion, what are the ages of the people on this forum who are debating against gay marriage?
dont forget gimme not everyone is against gay marriage per se.. some are just against calling it marriage when gays are involved.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i am just interested for the sake of discussion, what are the ages of the people on this forum who are debating against gay marriage?
I'm not against (as one may have gathered) but I may be in the age group that might be seen as more 'traditional'. Let's just say when I was little I lived in Georgia for a bit (Columbus and Atlanta) and I remember a bus driver refusing to start the bus until my sister, my dad and I moved from the back seat of the bus (because that's were kids like to be) to the front because we didn't 'belong' there - it was for 'other' people (and at that time it was perfectly legal to discriminate). So you have an idea of my age!
i am just interested for the sake of discussion, what are the ages of the people on this forum who are debating against gay marriage?
I'm not against (as one may have gathered) but I may be in the age group that might be seen as more 'traditional'. Let's just say when I was little I lived in Georgia for a bit (Columbus and Atlanta) and I remember a bus driver refusing to start the bus until my sister, my dad and I moved from the back seat of the bus (because that's were kids like to be) to the front because we didn't 'belong' there - it was for 'other' people (and at that time it was perfectly legal to discriminate). So you have an idea of my age!
i know you were not arguing against it. if people answered i was going to draw the conclusion that the young will be the ones that get this passed. traditional ways of thinking are going away with each new generation.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
i am just interested for the sake of discussion, what are the ages of the people on this forum who are debating against gay marriage?
I'm not against (as one may have gathered) but I may be in the age group that might be seen as more 'traditional'. Let's just say when I was little I lived in Georgia for a bit (Columbus and Atlanta) and I remember a bus driver refusing to start the bus until my sister, my dad and I moved from the back seat of the bus (because that's were kids like to be) to the front because we didn't 'belong' there - it was for 'other' people (and at that time it was perfectly legal to discriminate). So you have an idea of my age!
i know you were not arguing against it. if people answered i was going to draw the conclusion that the young will be the ones that get this passed. traditional ways of thinking are going away with each new generation.
whats the cut off point agewise?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
dunno, those born after 1985 maybe. old enough to have been exposed to mores that were not as rigid as people born before then. i was born in '75 and many people my age are still stuck in that way of thinking. the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
dunno, those born after 1985 maybe. old enough to have been exposed to mores that were not as rigid as people born before then. i was born in '75 and many people my age are still stuck in that way of thinking. the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
I think you have to add region as a major factor too (North/South, Urban/Rural).
Im in NY, born in 78 and my facebook blew up yesterday (most people about my age).
dunno, those born after 1985 maybe. old enough to have been exposed to mores that were not as rigid as people born before then. i was born in '75 and many people my age are still stuck in that way of thinking. the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
thats interesting. i honestly believe my older children(born 86 and 88) are less open than i am. and theyve been exposed to my liberal rants basically since birth. but then again im pretty darn liberal. but on gay issues im pretty sure were all of the same opinion.
if people your age are 'still stuck in that way of thinking' and knowing you as i do, then id say thats more to do with upbringing and exposure than age. maybe i dunno either really.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
dunno, those born after 1985 maybe. old enough to have been exposed to mores that were not as rigid as people born before then. i was born in '75 and many people my age are still stuck in that way of thinking. the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
dunno, those born after 1985 maybe. old enough to have been exposed to mores that were not as rigid as people born before then. i was born in '75 and many people my age are still stuck in that way of thinking. the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
I think you have to add region as a major factor too (North/South, Urban/Rural).
Im in NY, born in 78 and my facebook blew up yesterday (most people about my age).
mmm...don't know. I'm close to your age and I'm in the south, and my facebook blew up yesterday, too. Also, most my age (and in outrage and disgust).
the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
mmmm. not sure about that one, either. Granted, I live in the south, but it seems around here that the older teenagers do not appreciate homosexuality, nor different races. It's sad, really.
thats interesting. i honestly believe my older children(born 86 and 88) are less open than i am. and theyve been exposed to my liberal rants basically since birth. but then again im pretty darn liberal. but on gay issues im pretty sure were all of the same opinion.
if people your age are 'still stuck in that way of thinking' and knowing you as i do, then id say thats more to do with upbringing and exposure than age. maybe i dunno either really.
i deal with teenagers every day at work. from 2000 to 2007 i worked exclusively with them. they seem to be way more aware of current events and way more switched on than you would imagine. they have developed fluid positions. the ones i deal with are not black and white on everything. they see the shades of gray that a lot of people do not recognize. anecdotal i know, but i give them credit when it is due.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
each successive generation becomes more tolerant but it isn't an absolute...how one was raised and where they are raised factors into it...yes, everyone i know is in favor of gay marriage (or in reality, couldn't give a shit who marries who) but those are the people i've chosen to have as friends...but there are many people in my age group that are against it...but i'd say they are more the minority
the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
mmmm. not sure about that one, either. Granted, I live in the south, but it seems around here that the older teenagers do not appreciate homosexuality, nor different races. It's sad, really.
Its probably just a 'macho' thing at that point. We used to play "smear the queer" in the schoolyard (football game). I also remember calling people 'homo' a lot and crap like that. Didnt have any views on it, just to put people down in a schoolyard type of way.
Once they witness people they know, cousins, etc realize it is OK to be gay and come out of the closet, etc... it becomes real and attitudes change. Or when they see someone going through life miserably, come out of the closet, and suddenly become a joyous person.... or if someone they know kills themself as opposed to living life unable to publicly declare their sexual orientation.
dunno, those born after 1985 maybe. old enough to have been exposed to mores that were not as rigid as people born before then. i was born in '75 and many people my age are still stuck in that way of thinking. the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
So let me get this straight...
Discriminating against gays = bad
Ageism = A OK!!!!!
typical huh there is no age on any of this, that is judgmental in and of itself :fp:
there are both young and old who believe marriage should stay as is
but believe in equal rights
there are those opposed to gay unions period young and old
there are those who simply have no issue with either marriage or unions young and old
there are those who don't believe in marriage at all ! young and old!
each successive generation becomes more tolerant but it isn't an absolute...how one was raised and where they are raised factors into it...yes, everyone i know is in favor of gay marriage (or in reality, couldn't give a shit who marries who) but those are the people i've chosen to have as friends...but there are many people in my age group that are against it...but i'd say they are more the minority
I think this is a good point. I also think that as major metropolitan cities have gotten younger and more educated, the conversation has certainly changed and being in major media centers has certainly helped.
typical huh there is no age on any of this, that is judgmental in and of itself :fp:
there are both young and old who believe marriage should stay as is
but believe in equal rights
there are those opposed to gay unions period young and old
there are those who simply have no issue with either marriage or unions young and old
there are those who don't believe in marriage at all ! young and old!
how is it ageism? i was not judging you. i was just stating that the young will carry the torch for this issue and will see to it that gays get equal rights. as for the rest of your post, i have stopped reading your posts so i have nothing to add.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
typical huh there is no age on any of this, that is judgmental in and of itself :fp:
there are both young and old who believe marriage should stay as is
but believe in equal rights
there are those opposed to gay unions period young and old
there are those who simply have no issue with either marriage or unions young and old
there are those who don't believe in marriage at all ! young and old!
I guarantee there is a markable difference in people's gay views based on age.
As a 33 year old I have encountered gay people in schooling, socially, and at work. I can guarantee that my father didnt have 1/10th of the exposure at age 33. It wasnt as OK to be openly gay before. People werent exposed to it. For a lot of these people it is tough to acknowledge that being gay isnot a choice
Its probably just a 'macho' thing at that point. We used to play "smear the queer" in the schoolyard (football game). I also remember calling people 'homo' a lot and crap like that. Didnt have any views on it, just to put people down in a schoolyard type of way.
Once they witness people they know, cousins, etc realize it is OK to be gay and come out of the closet, etc... it becomes real and attitudes change. Or when they see someone going through life miserably, come out of the closet, and suddenly become a joyous person.... or if someone they know kills themself as opposed to living life unable to publicly declare their sexual orientation.
These are good points, MayDay. Life experience of course affects one's views. Most of whom I was referring to (that I have seen), though, are girls. And their attitudes reflect those of the parents. But you are right...they may not (hopefully) always think one way.
thats interesting. i honestly believe my older children(born 86 and 88) are less open than i am. and theyve been exposed to my liberal rants basically since birth. but then again im pretty darn liberal. but on gay issues im pretty sure were all of the same opinion.
if people your age are 'still stuck in that way of thinking' and knowing you as i do, then id say thats more to do with upbringing and exposure than age. maybe i dunno either really.
i deal with teenagers every day at work. from 2000 to 2007 i worked exclusively with them. they seem to be way more aware of current events and way more switched on than you would imagine. they have developed fluid positions. the ones i deal with are not black and white on everything. they see the shades of gray that a lot of people do not recognize. anecdotal i know, but i give them credit when it is due.
i deal with teenagers every day too. but this isnt a pissing contest. and i would agree... the 4th estate is so large now.. larger than its ever been that its easier to get information from a variety of sources and to use that info along with their everyday to form a broader and more balanced opinion. but it also depends on what media theyre listening to.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
dunno, those born after 1985 maybe. old enough to have been exposed to mores that were not as rigid as people born before then. i was born in '75 and many people my age are still stuck in that way of thinking. the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
typical huh there is no age on any of this, that is judgmental in and of itself :fp:
there are both young and old who believe marriage should stay as is
but believe in equal rights
there are those opposed to gay unions period young and old
there are those who simply have no issue with either marriage or unions young and old
there are those who don't believe in marriage at all ! young and old!
how is it ageism? i was not judging you. i was just stating that the young will carry the torch for this issue and will see to it that gays get equal rights. as for the rest of your post, i have stopped reading your posts so i have nothing to add.
wonder why you only replied to me instead of the other poster...
I was quoting them about ageism
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,776
thats interesting. i honestly believe my older children(born 86 and 88) are less open than i am. and theyve been exposed to my liberal rants basically since birth. but then again im pretty darn liberal. but on gay issues im pretty sure were all of the same opinion.
if people your age are 'still stuck in that way of thinking' and knowing you as i do, then id say thats more to do with upbringing and exposure than age. maybe i dunno either really.
i deal with teenagers every day at work. from 2000 to 2007 i worked exclusively with them. they seem to be way more aware of current events and way more switched on than you would imagine. they have developed fluid positions. the ones i deal with are not black and white on everything. they see the shades of gray that a lot of people do not recognize. anecdotal i know, but i give them credit when it is due.
Comments
In the UK, like in many other countries, same sex MARRIAGE is not legal. Here we have the civil unions/partnerships that confer all the same rights and responsibilities as a marriage (ie insurance policies, etc.) but falls short of a 'marriage'. I think it's different to the US where currently the rights of a partnership in a civil union are not the same. So a bit better for gay people here. Part of the coalition government here is pushing for same sex MARRIAGE, but the other half won't hear of it.
From Wiki (I know...) but this explains it a bit better than I can.
"Aside from the manner in which couples register and the non-use of the word "marriage", civil partnerships and civil marriages give exactly the same legal rights and operate under the same constrictions and it is not legal to be in both a civil partnership and a marriage at the same time. Nevertheless, some of those in favour of legal same-sex marriage object that civil partnerships fall short of granting equality. They see legal marriage and civil partnerships as artificially segregated institutions, and draw parallels with the racial segregation of the United States' past. Civil partnership ceremonies are prohibited by law from including religious readings, symbols or music, even if the church involved supports such use.[37]
Both same-sex marriages and civil unions of other nations will be automatically considered civil partnerships under UK law providing they came within Section 20 of the Act. This means, in some cases, non-Britons from nations with civil unions will have greater rights in the UK than in their native countries. For example, a Vermont civil union would have legal standing in the UK, however in cases where one partner was American and the other British, the Vermont civil union would not provide the Briton with right of abode in Vermont (or any other US state or territory), whereas it would provide the American with right of abode in the UK."
then so be it. why should gays settle?
and no there is no marriage equality in australia.. why make that assumption?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
it is shameful in 2012 that people have to qualify "unions" or "gay marriage" as anything other than "marriage".
gay MARRIAGE now!
i am just interested for the sake of discussion, what are the ages of the people on this forum who are debating against gay marriage?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
dont forget gimme not everyone is against gay marriage per se.. some are just against calling it marriage when gays are involved.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss8LDBNcsWc
I'm not against (as one may have gathered) but I may be in the age group that might be seen as more 'traditional'. Let's just say when I was little I lived in Georgia for a bit (Columbus and Atlanta) and I remember a bus driver refusing to start the bus until my sister, my dad and I moved from the back seat of the bus (because that's were kids like to be) to the front because we didn't 'belong' there - it was for 'other' people (and at that time it was perfectly legal to discriminate). So you have an idea of my age!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
whats the cut off point agewise?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I think you have to add region as a major factor too (North/South, Urban/Rural).
Im in NY, born in 78 and my facebook blew up yesterday (most people about my age).
thats interesting. i honestly believe my older children(born 86 and 88) are less open than i am. and theyve been exposed to my liberal rants basically since birth. but then again im pretty darn liberal.
if people your age are 'still stuck in that way of thinking' and knowing you as i do, then id say thats more to do with upbringing and exposure than age. maybe i dunno either really.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
So let me get this straight...
Discriminating against gays = bad
Ageism = A OK!!!!!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Its probably just a 'macho' thing at that point. We used to play "smear the queer" in the schoolyard (football game). I also remember calling people 'homo' a lot and crap like that. Didnt have any views on it, just to put people down in a schoolyard type of way.
Once they witness people they know, cousins, etc realize it is OK to be gay and come out of the closet, etc... it becomes real and attitudes change. Or when they see someone going through life miserably, come out of the closet, and suddenly become a joyous person.... or if someone they know kills themself as opposed to living life unable to publicly declare their sexual orientation.
there are both young and old who believe marriage should stay as is
but believe in equal rights
there are those opposed to gay unions period young and old
there are those who simply have no issue with either marriage or unions young and old
there are those who don't believe in marriage at all ! young and old!
I think this is a good point. I also think that as major metropolitan cities have gotten younger and more educated, the conversation has certainly changed and being in major media centers has certainly helped.
it was very interesting to read the hateful comments that people i don't know left on my friends' status updates though.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I guarantee there is a markable difference in people's gay views based on age.
As a 33 year old I have encountered gay people in schooling, socially, and at work. I can guarantee that my father didnt have 1/10th of the exposure at age 33. It wasnt as OK to be openly gay before. People werent exposed to it. For a lot of these people it is tough to acknowledge that being gay isnot a choice
i deal with teenagers every day too. but this isnt a pissing contest.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I was quoting them about ageism