What is it like to be attractive?

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

I like to look nice at times but I find it's got more of an impact if it's only on occasion. If you wear make up every day, it becomes part of your face... I went through a make up phase for a while and then felt horrible when I didn't wear it... even though I was quite happy beforehand so I stopped wearing it. I wasn't wearing any makeup when I met my boyfriend and, looking back on the pics of that night, I looked like shit... but he didn't think so

I love my boyfriend but somehow I manage to impress him by just being me :shock: I'm not lying... we're all different soulsinging. There's no point working to impress somebody cos you can't keep it up and that's when the relationship dies. Sure it IS work... but we're not working to simply impress eachother. We're working to ENJOY eachother

I couldn't go out with somebody with your standards... not cos I don't meet them but because I want somebody to love me for ALL of me... not cos I'm a trophy or make them look good or something... that's not much of a basis for a relationship.

Oh and that fat slob might find another fat slob to love her and make her happy just as the shallow hals find eachother.

I don't think you have any idea what my standards are. I'm not dating super models and never have. My ex is the hottest woman I ever saw, but everyone who's seen her picture admits she's very pretty but nothing special. I'm not exactly Don Juan myself and I don't expect the women I date to be Marilyn Monroe.

As to the fat slob... thanks for proving my point. He can meet someone on his level. But YOU wouldn't be willing to roll in the hay with him... because looks DO matter.

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

I don't think you have any idea what my standards are. I'm not dating super models and never have. My ex is the hottest woman I ever saw, but everyone who's seen her picture admits she's very pretty but nothing special. I'm not exactly Don Juan myself and I don't expect the women I date to be Marilyn Monroe.

As to the fat slob... thanks for proving my point. He can meet someone on his level. But YOU wouldn't be willing to roll in the hay with him... because looks DO matter.

I never said they don't matter... they just don't matter as much as YOU think they do. And we were discussing how everyone SHOULD put loadsa effort into looking as good as they can... I think that's a loada bollox.

Interesting you say Marilyn Monroe as an example of attractive... if she were around today, she'd be too fat to get any work :shock:

And for the fat slob, fat doesn't put me off... I'm not into slobs though... see it's the personality that matters.

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

I'm a realist... not a hypotheticalist Ed's a fantasy. It would never happen. Although when I go on dates, I do make an effort to look good... cos we usually go somewhere nice. I never said I'm AGAINST wearing make up or dressing up... I actually enjoy dressing up but I do it when I want to or to please me not cos I think it's something that SHOULD be done. I also think society continuing to tell people they have to look good if they wanna find someone rather than focussing on finding someone whose personality will complement theirs is just silly. Sure usually people are attracted to eachother initially cos of looks... but you need to get ON if you wanna stay together. You and Pam just seem to be trying to push the idea that looks are everything... they're far from it.

I don't think that's remotely what either of us has been pushing. What we've been saying is that looks do matter and there's nothing wrong with that. There's no shame or vanity is wanting to look good and appreciating or desiring good looks in others. It's as valid a component of attraction and relationships as any other. Nothing is indispensable... There are certain levels of bitchiness or air-headedness I couldn't live with, no matter how hot a woman is. Likewise, there are certain levels of ugly I couldn't live with, no matter how wonderful a person someone is, because sex and passion are important parts of the relationships I have. There are certain levels of joblessness scb can't live with.

You don't call people snobbish class-ists for insisting the guys they date have jobs. You don't call people demanding perfectionists for wanting a certain kind of personality. And you shouldn't call people "Shallow Hals" for wanting to date someone they find physically attractive.

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I don't think you have any idea what my standards are. I'm not dating super models and never have. My ex is the hottest woman I ever saw, but everyone who's seen her picture admits she's very pretty but nothing special. I'm not exactly Don Juan myself and I don't expect the women I date to be Marilyn Monroe.

As to the fat slob... thanks for proving my point. He can meet someone on his level. But YOU wouldn't be willing to roll in the hay with him... because looks DO matter.

I never said they don't matter... they just don't matter as much as YOU think they do. And we were discussing how everyone SHOULD put loadsa effort into looking as good as they can... I think that's a loada bollox.

Interesting you say Marilyn Monroe as an example of attractive... if she were around today, she'd be too fat to get any work :shock:

And for the fat slob, fat doesn't put me off... I'm not into slobs though... see it's the personality that matters.

Right. I could easily argue that what I've been talking about boils down to personality as well... I don't want a woman who's so inconsiderate of my likes and wants that she will absolutely refuse to meet any of them if they are at all an inconvenience for her... like shaving her legs. I don't want to date Narcissus, but the other extreme is no better. Make an effort to look nice, it's appreciated. The women that refuse to do that are too stubborn and bitchy for me.

in_hiding79

Looks are not everything and I never said that.....I just think everyone should look their best or just make an effort at least!

Model Roll Model

what's it like to be attractive??
Pretty fuckin awesome!!!

JordyWordy

soulsinging wrote:

Then I'm pretty sure you are wrong, because I'm not trying to be argumentative. That is exactly what you've been writing as far as I can tell. The guy has to put his own $ into the relationship, but the girl should never have to do anything to try to look attractive.

And since you liked saying my views on sex outside a relationship go both ways, your views on attractiveness go both ways too? I'd post an example I have in mind, but I'm pretty sure I'd get banned. Suffice to say, I suspect there are things you'd never consider doing for this man, no matter how great a guy he is:

http://sameritech.files.wordpress.com/2 ... man_03.jpg

Edit: (only noticed after i wrote this that you'd figured what scb meant)

there's quite a difference between not making extra effort with your looks and having a lazy attitude. im pretty sure her point wasnt the physical nature of the slob, but the point like speedy said - its a laziness thing, or even a using thing. where someone just doesnt pull their weight in a relationship...its just not right.

and there are plenty of women that are gorgeous without "doing themselves up", obviously they brush their teeth and wipe their arse after shitting etc....but not wearing make up doesnt mean not making an effort. i guess its like your example of the ex you thought was stunning, and others thought she was pretty. different strokes...

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

Right. I could easily argue that what I've been talking about boils down to personality as well... I don't want a woman who's so inconsiderate of my likes and wants that she will absolutely refuse to meet any of them if they are at all an inconvenience for her... like shaving her legs. I don't want to date Narcissus, but the other extreme is no better. Make an effort to look nice, it's appreciated. The women that refuse to do that are too stubborn and bitchy for me.

Lol ok, so now if she doesn't shave her legs she's being inconsiderate, stubborn and bitchy? I'm guessing you may never have really been in love. When you love somebody you still find them attractive if they've got the cold, even if their eyes are puffy and they've got snot running from their nose. I guess it's quite hard to explain but once you fall in love with somebody's personality, why would you WANT them to wear make up? It sounds a bit weird to me. You speak as if this is human nature and everybody's like that. I think there are enough of us refuting this to say otherwise. Sure, there are PLENTY of people who need 'their woman to look good, perhaps it's some kinda insecurity or something? But there are also plenty of people who love what they've got and wouldn't change a thing.

in_hiding79

Heineken Helen wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Right. I could easily argue that what I've been talking about boils down to personality as well... I don't want a woman who's so inconsiderate of my likes and wants that she will absolutely refuse to meet any of them if they are at all an inconvenience for her... like shaving her legs. I don't want to date Narcissus, but the other extreme is no better. Make an effort to look nice, it's appreciated. The women that refuse to do that are too stubborn and bitchy for me.

Lol ok, so now if she doesn't shave her legs she's being inconsiderate, stubborn and bitchy? I'm guessing you may never have really been in love. When you love somebody you still find them attractive if they've got the cold, even if their eyes are puffy and they've got snot running from their nose. I guess it's quite hard to explain but once you fall in love with somebody's personality, why would you WANT them to wear make up? It sounds a bit weird to me. You speak as if this is human nature and everybody's like that. I think there are enough of us refuting this to say otherwise. Sure, there are PLENTY of people who need 'their woman to look good, perhaps it's some kinda insecurity or something? But there are also plenty of people who love what they've got and wouldn't change a thing.

MY husband hates when I wear lipstick because he says he likes my lips bare....

Heineken Helen

in_hiding79 wrote:

MY husband hates when I wear lipstick because he says he likes my lips bare....

Lol, the bf ain't a fan of lip gloss either... I usually warn him before I put it on cos a few times he's kissed me straight away and gets it on him

bee_boy

in_hiding79 wrote:

...No one has natural beauty, there is no such thing!

I SO don't agree with this. My girlfriend barely uses makeup, and she's gorgeous all the time. You could say that I'm biased, and I am, but I'm not the only one saying it... people who don't know her tell me how she has this "natural beauty" to her. Obviously when we're going to a party or there's a special event going on, she puts on make up and all that and she looks stunning, but I love her looks without makeup and I'm 100% sure it's all about natural beauty.

I think smiling is the best makeup anyone could wear.

JordyWordy

BOOOOOO down with lip gloss! except it does keep the lips nicely hydrated.....

having things bare as a rule makes them better

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Right. I could easily argue that what I've been talking about boils down to personality as well... I don't want a woman who's so inconsiderate of my likes and wants that she will absolutely refuse to meet any of them if they are at all an inconvenience for her... like shaving her legs. I don't want to date Narcissus, but the other extreme is no better. Make an effort to look nice, it's appreciated. The women that refuse to do that are too stubborn and bitchy for me.

Lol ok, so now if she doesn't shave her legs she's being inconsiderate, stubborn and bitchy? I'm guessing you may never have really been in love. When you love somebody you still find them attractive if they've got the cold, even if their eyes are puffy and they've got snot running from their nose. I guess it's quite hard to explain but once you fall in love with somebody's personality, why would you WANT them to wear make up? It sounds a bit weird to me. You speak as if this is human nature and everybody's like that. I think there are enough of us refuting this to say otherwise. Sure, there are PLENTY of people who need 'their woman to look good, perhaps it's some kinda insecurity or something? But there are also plenty of people who love what they've got and wouldn't change a thing.

I was simply pointing out that it's a cop out to claim that the physical looks of that fat guy is only repulsive to you because you ascribe it to some defect in his personality. It's a blatant attempt to avoid having to admit he's fat and you'd never sleep with him because he's physically disgusting.

I loved it when my ex wore no make up and she was hot even when sick. But refusing to shave your legs is gross, sorry. That I would not have been ok with and I'd have had a problem with it... she had such great legs too! And yes, if you refuse to shave your legs because you're that obsessed with how unfair society is to you and you're that angry and stubborn... then you're not for me. I hate hipsters and other people that make such a focused effort to "buck the man." It's like someone standing on a sinking ship and going "fuck no I'm not putting on a life jacket, I'm not letting this fucking water tell me what to do!" Suck it up, quit your whining, and deal with it.

_

soulsinging wrote:

Right. I could easily argue that what I've been talking about boils down to personality as well... I don't want a woman who's so inconsiderate of my likes and wants that she will absolutely refuse to meet any of them if they are at all an inconvenience for her... like shaving her legs. I don't want to date Narcissus, but the other extreme is no better. Make an effort to look nice, it's appreciated. The women that refuse to do that are too stubborn and bitchy for me.

So if your girlfriend wants you to shave your legs, balls, chest, face, head, or whatever else... would you do it? And, if not, would that make you stubborn and bitchy?

_

JordyWordy wrote:

Edit: (only noticed after i wrote this that you'd figured what scb meant)

there's quite a difference between not making extra effort with your looks and having a lazy attitude. im pretty sure her point wasnt the physical nature of the slob, but the point like speedy said - its a laziness thing, or even a using thing. where someone just doesnt pull their weight in a relationship...its just not right.

and there are plenty of women that are gorgeous without "doing themselves up", obviously they brush their teeth and wipe their arse after shitting etc....but not wearing make up doesnt mean not making an effort. i guess its like your example of the ex you thought was stunning, and others thought she was pretty. different strokes...

Great post (but, no, soulsinging hasn't figured out what I meant).

Heineken Helen

soulsinging wrote:

I was simply pointing out that it's a cop out to claim that the physical looks of that fat guy is only repulsive to you because you ascribe it to some defect in his personality. It's a blatant attempt to avoid having to admit he's fat and you'd never sleep with him because he's physically disgusting.

I loved it when my ex wore no make up and she was hot even when sick. But refusing to shave your legs is gross, sorry. That I would not have been ok with and I'd have had a problem with it... she had such great legs too! And yes, if you refuse to shave your legs because you're that obsessed with how unfair society is to you and you're that angry and stubborn... then you're not for me. I hate hipsters and other people that make such a focused effort to "buck the man." It's like someone standing on a sinking ship and going "fuck no I'm not putting on a life jacket, I'm not letting this fucking water tell me what to do!" Suck it up, quit your whining, and deal with it.

:? who said anything about not shaving my legs to prove some kinda point? I DO shave my legs, not that it's any of your business but when I can be bothered. If my bf said 'shave your legs or it's a dealbreaker' well I'm sorry, I'd laugh in his face hysterically til I know if he's serious or not... and then when I find out he's serious, I'd just walk out. It's not about me being angry... I don't say 'I'm too angry to shave my legs today' nor do I say 'I'm too stubborn to shave my legs today' I shave them when I want... he knows better than to complain... if he said 'shave your legs woman' well then yes, perhaps I WOULD be stubborn.. actually undoubtedly I would... but I think that would be acceptable in that situation... the day he starts dictating my appearance :shock: well that's the day he loses his balls

soulsinging

scb wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Right. I could easily argue that what I've been talking about boils down to personality as well... I don't want a woman who's so inconsiderate of my likes and wants that she will absolutely refuse to meet any of them if they are at all an inconvenience for her... like shaving her legs. I don't want to date Narcissus, but the other extreme is no better. Make an effort to look nice, it's appreciated. The women that refuse to do that are too stubborn and bitchy for me.

So if your girlfriend wants you to shave your legs, balls, chest, face, head, or whatever else... would you do it? And, if not, would that make you stubborn and bitchy?

All but the legs. A guy with shaved legs violates too many social norms and I don't need my friends making cracks about it constantly. If your guy asked you to shave your head, I'd say you'd be justified telling him to piss off for the same reason.

soulsinging

JordyWordy wrote:

Edit: (only noticed after i wrote this that you'd figured what scb meant)

there's quite a difference between not making extra effort with your looks and having a lazy attitude. im pretty sure her point wasnt the physical nature of the slob, but the point like speedy said - its a laziness thing, or even a using thing. where someone just doesnt pull their weight in a relationship...its just not right.

and there are plenty of women that are gorgeous without "doing themselves up", obviously they brush their teeth and wipe their arse after shitting etc....but not wearing make up doesnt mean not making an effort. i guess its like your example of the ex you thought was stunning, and others thought she was pretty. different strokes...

Everyone keeps harping on the make up, where did I ever say women can't leave the house without perfect make up? What do you say to shaving the legs? You cool with your girl having hairier legs than you? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. To me, it's a combination of a laziness/insecurity/attitude thing. People act like I've been saying women revolt me if they're not doused in make up. But that's par for the course when insecure people hear this topic.

It's one thing to have those days where you roll out of bed and just don't have it in you to lift a finger. You gargle mouthwash instead of brushing, fuck the hair, throw on the fat sweatpants, and go through the motions. That's cool. But if you do that EVERY SINGLE day, yeah, I have a problem with that. To me it indicates 1) entitlement and 2) laziness and sloth. Entitlement because she demands I call her sexy without any effort on her part to be appealing. Would people here be ok if I told a girl "fuck you bitch, I will never acknowledge your birthday, give you a flower or gift of any kind, compliment you, or even be nice to you. But you should still love me and think I'm hot despite it because that's who I am." Of course not, it's fucking absurd. She's SHOULD feel like I don't care about her under those circumstances. If I think she's special, I should make an effort to make her feel special. If I'm never willing to lift a finger to do so, then it's only wise for her to think "maybe he doesn't care about me at all." That's all I'm saying.

I still don't see why it's perfectly ok for her to say "he has to pull his financial weight like I do" but utterly unreasonable for me to say "she has to make an effort to look nice like I do."

soulsinging

Heineken Helen wrote:

:? who said anything about not shaving my legs to prove some kinda point? I DO shave my legs, not that it's any of your business but when I can be bothered. If my bf said 'shave your legs or it's a dealbreaker' well I'm sorry, I'd laugh in his face hysterically til I know if he's serious or not... and then when I find out he's serious, I'd just walk out. It's not about me being angry... I don't say 'I'm too angry to shave my legs today' nor do I say 'I'm too stubborn to shave my legs today' I shave them when I want... he knows better than to complain... if he said 'shave your legs woman' well then yes, perhaps I WOULD be stubborn.. actually undoubtedly I would... but I think that would be acceptable in that situation... the day he starts dictating my appearance :shock: well that's the day he loses his balls

So why do you want to shave them? You say you only do it when you want... why do you want to shave them now and again?

Who said anything about dictating her appearance? I've never said anything like that to a woman. I don't flip the fuck out if she has a shit few days and doesn't get round to it. I do have a problem if she says "I will never, ever shave my legs because it's a bullshit patriarchal thing and I'm not going to bow to it!" Then we have a problem. I like smooth legs. Sue me. And I don't want to be with a woman who's going to turn a trivial thing like that into some epic political battle against the system.

iluvcats

If I could eat salt (not allowed) I would pop a bag of pop corn. Sure would be good for reading this interesting thread

I wonder if the original poster ever came back?