Is this a weird feeling to have regarding being attractive? ....perhaps it's more to do with with confidence, I don't know.
All my life, I've always had a hardtime keeping a steady job so at times I'm very low on money. I tend to be much less active and less motivated. For example: If I'm chatting up with a chick at a bar or someplace, and I find out she has a respectable job or career, I try my best to void going any further- regardless of how hot she is.
Quite the blanket statement and couldn't be more wrong. Superficiality attracts superficiality. So you, as a man, has never had a problem. Maybe because you're used to dating women with the same superficiality I'm gathering?
I've known this guy who was deemed quite attractive but dated less than attractive women, and yeah, the reaction to that was unbelievable. But ya know what? The guy was a complete asshole and treated people like shit. Bottom line is that looks are deceiving and completely superficial. He eventually married a not so attractive woman, yet, looks hardly mean anything (because he was actually really unattractive once he opened his mouth).
I'll say it again; Hal learned from being shallow, but it's clear that many people don't.
Is this supposed to make some sort of sense? You talk about a guy that is NOT superficial and dates ugly girls and say what a jerk he was... how does that prove anything?
I haven't dated any particularly superficial women that I recall... I'm not really a hot guy so such women wouldn't have much interest in me. Though I will soon (hopefully) be making good money, so maybe a few will come my way... something to look forward to! I've dated one or two super hot, super smart girls, a few very pretty and incredibly sweet girls, a few average girls that I thought were cool, and one or two psychos. But I've never dated ugly and I won't... you can't maintain a relationship with someone that holds no sexual desire for you. And I've had my share of female friends that were very very cool but that I never even considered dating because there weren't remotely attractive.
The only difference between a good friend and a significant other is that you hook up with the latter and not the former. What does a girl offer me that I can't get from a good friend other than sex? So why should attraction have no role whatsoever in who I choose to date?
What I'm saying is that other people thought that because he was attractive, they thought that he should be with an attractive woman, which refers to what you've said previously about "you never see a good looking guy with an ugly woman". I should have mentioned I was referring to that. Oh, and I'm sure that will make you feel good that a woman has interest in you solely for your money. Good luck with that.
I totally understand that physical attraction trumps meaningful attraction for you. You've made that very clear. In that sense, perhaps you have been seeing the wrong women if they saw something other than the physical in you. Not to be mean, but this is how you're coming across.
I wouldn't necessarily leave... that might be hard on the kids and when you leave them they take half your money and property, so it might be a pricey proposition. But I'd stop having sex with her and seek sex elsewhere.
I hope you're at least up-front with her about that so she knows what she's getting into. And I hope you're okay with her seeking sex elsewhere as soon as your looks take a turn for the worse.
Well if you choose to wax then yes the cost adds up. I woudn't say razors and shaving cream really add up though. I mean come on.....Are you going to stop brushing your teeth b/c toothpaste cost too much? That is the most ridiculous arguement for not shaving that I have ever heard.
I'm not a superficial person at all but I accept there are always going to be social standards in every society. If you choose not to live up to those that's fine. Just don't gripe and look down at the people who do.
I'm not making an argument that women shouldn't shave if they want to or looking down at people who do. I'm just recognizing the fact that we're paying money into a multi-billion dollar industry in large part because of insecurities induced by artibarary social standards of beauty.
A woman not shaving or waxing her lip is really gross...who wants to talk to you if you have hairy legs, armpits and have a mustache...ewwwww. I hope you're kidding! If you're not, then being single is really not by choice! :?
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
So if you got married and your wife got old and fat someday, or was horribly disfigured in an accident, would you leave her?
I wouldn't necessarily leave... that might be hard on the kids and when you leave them they take half your money and property, so it might be a pricey proposition. But I'd stop having sex with her and seek sex elsewhere.
I'm also joining this discussion rather late.
As someone who's been married 30 years I can say from experience that the attraction that brings people together is bound to fade. Yes, you want to keep looking good for the person you care about but looks change over time whether you like it or not.
I was never someone that was considered "beautiful" so it's not like I've had to worry about losing my looks, but trust me, I'm long past the point in my life when I get hit on. My husband has had a tough time with the fact that he's been going bald for the last 10 years. What hair he has left is mostly grey. It bothers the hell out of him. Do you think I care? I think he's hot as when I first met him.
When it comes to standards of physical beauty, of course they matter. My point is that very few people can measure up to them completely and permanently without some kind of assistance. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much that matters to them. Even the most attractive people have shortcomings. And they can't maintain those looks over a lifetime. We all age. So in a relationship we have to decide if we can get past the fact that physical appearance isn't permanent.
And different things will attract different people. That's why some people like blondes and some brunettes. Some guys think hairy legs are gross, some think it's no big deal. Different cultures have different ideas of attractiveness.
Soulsinging, if you choose to be married, I hope you can move beyond just the physical attraction. I don't know how to explain it because there's just something different about the love you have for the person you've shared half your life with. Otherwise, I hope you can consider what scb said, that if you lose your hair and develop a paunch, it's fair for your wife to play by the same rules. Which I think would be pretty sad.
A woman not shaving or waxing her lip is really gross...who wants to talk to you if you have hairy legs, armpits and have a mustache...ewwwww. I hope you're kidding! If you're not, then being single is really not by choice! :?
Haha! No, I'm not kidding. (Although, I don't know your experience, but I don't grow a mustache. ) And I guess you'll just have to take my word for it when I say being single really is by my choice. It's sad to know, though, that there are people who think I'm not worthy of love (or as worthy of attraction, or as valuable of a person, or however you want to put it) because I don't shave my legs. I hope for your own peace of mind you never find out what it's like to be disfigured or some such thing.... although, sometimes that kind of experience is just what some people need....
So if you got married and your wife got old and fat someday, or was horribly disfigured in an accident, would you leave her?
I wouldn't necessarily leave... that might be hard on the kids and when you leave them they take half your money and property, so it might be a pricey proposition. But I'd stop having sex with her and seek sex elsewhere.
I'm also joining this discussion rather late.
As someone who's been married 30 years I can say from experience that the attraction that brings people together is bound to fade. Yes, you want to keep looking good for the person you care about but looks change over time whether you like it or not.
I was never someone that was considered "beautiful" so it's not like I've had to worry about losing my looks, but trust me, I'm long past the point in my life when I get hit on. My husband has had a tough time with the fact that he's been going bald for the last 10 years. What hair he has left is mostly grey. It bothers the hell out of him. Do you think I care? I think he's hot as when I first met him.
When it comes to standards of physical beauty, of course they matter. My point is that very few people can measure up to them completely and permanently without some kind of assistance. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much that matters to them. Even the most attractive people have shortcomings. And they can't maintain those looks over a lifetime. We all age. So in a relationship we have to decide if we can get past the fact that physical appearance isn't permanent.
And different things will attract different people. That's why some people like blondes and some brunettes. Some guys think hairy legs are gross, some think it's no big deal. Different cultures have different ideas of attractiveness.
Soulsinging, if you choose to be married, I hope you can move beyond just the physical attraction. I don't know how to explain it because there's just something different about the love you have for the person you've shared half your life with. Otherwise, I hope you can consider what scb said, that if you lose your hair and develop a paunch, it's fair for your wife to play by the same rules. Which I think would be pretty sad.
I'm starting to think soulsinging and In_Hiding79 would make a good couple....
I'm starting to think soulsinging and In_Hiding79 would make a good couple....
amazing
im totally with you on this thing.
for me, i have to admit that when meeting girls, its not all the make-up etc that will make me attracted to them GENERALLY. but then again sometimes girls can make themselves look very hot by doing it....some girls look far better without it. for some people it doesnt enhance their natural look at all, and for others they can look like 2 totally different people with/without make-up ( i find that really weird to be honest).
if a girl has some hair on her legs, or no make-up, or bad breath...i can still be attracted to her if she's physically good looking. and i also went out with a girl for about 2 years that i wasnt attracted to that much at the start...it is true that the physical attraction can grow because of others things going well.
Is this a weird feeling to have regarding being attractive? ....perhaps it's more to do with with confidence, I don't know.
All my life, I've always had a hardtime keeping a steady job so at times I'm very low on money. I tend to be much less active and less motivated. For example: If I'm chatting up with a chick at a bar or someplace, and I find out she has a respectable job or career, I try my best to void going any further- regardless of how hot she is.
I don't know, is this just a guy thing? :oops:
i kinda know what you mean.... ive had times where im like that. eventually stopped doing it, but yeh, for me it was definitely a confidence thing. ill probably get it again at somepoint, hopefully not. its a very non-sensical thing to do really, but it was definitely tied in to the "not motivated, not feeling that attractive" thing.
I wouldn't necessarily leave... that might be hard on the kids and when you leave them they take half your money and property, so it might be a pricey proposition. But I'd stop having sex with her and seek sex elsewhere.
I hope you're at least up-front with her about that so she knows what she's getting into. And I hope you're okay with her seeking sex elsewhere as soon as your looks take a turn for the worse.
Of course I am. Fair is fair. Women are selfish and shallow too. I learned very well not to be surprised or bothered when she decides she can find better. That's human nature. I can't fight it and neither can she.
The fact is, there's no such thing as eternal marital love. There's just settling... being too tired or bored to bother anymore, so you become willing to take what you've got in order to have a long-term friend/roommate with easy access to sex. All marriage is is finding a good friend you can put up with for a while that will also let you screw them from time to time. Yeah, it's love. But it's not special or different or better than the love you feel for your best friends or your family. It just is.
And the thing to keep in mind is that no matter how much you THINK you love each other, it's only because you both figure you can't do a whole lot better. You've reached a good balance of attractiveness and livable personality and you're willing to stop. But when it comes down to it, the second your significant other thinks they can do a bit better and finds someone or something that fits the bill, they will toss you aside and go for it. Humans aren't built for monogamy. What's the divorce rate? Over 50%. Of the remaining 50% how many have cheated and stayed together? Have open relationships? Are miserable and stay together only out of obligation or because it's easier? Tons. You're talking maybe 25% of marriages TOPS being happy loving marriages, and probably 90% of those are from wet-brain religious folks. Look around here... how many members just since this board switch have been divorced, cheated on, dumped, had their hearts broken. Compare that to the number of people on here who married one person and stayed with them ever since and are happy as pigs in shit about it and never once strayed from said spouse or vice versa... how many such couples are there here? 3? 4?
The reaction I get is priceless... feigned, self-righteous pity about how I'm shallow and just don't understand true love. Bullshit. I understand it quite well and also felt firsthand just how cheap and disposable it is in the end. The desperate attempts to act like I'm not speaking true or I'm some sort of shallow bastard are such transparent attempts by people to cling to what they know isn't true... that life can have a fairy tale happily ever after disney ending... where an ugly person is seen as gorgeous and some deep spiritual bond overpowers all our base animal characteristics developed over millenia of evolution. The great part is that so much of it comes from single people... still hoping one day they'll find this nonexistent selfless "higher plane" of human sentiment and activity.
Ummmm... I don't know if people "need" to look their best, but it is much appreciated I think examples of taking care of yourself has been taken to the extreme on this post...The example of the "perceived blemish"... I mean, the basis for our opinions is now completely hypothetical based on some OCD, likely bulimic ex-beauty queen.. orange eyeliner? wtf are you talking about?...The fact is we all use products that make us more attractive. Other products you can buy to look your best include razors, toothbrushes, and shampoo....We all use those (or should)... This post was about what it is like to it is like to be attractive; I have never looked at some hairy legged, plague toothed, nappy haired woman and said "oh, yeah, gotta meet her".... Attractive people (particularly the ones who aren't 17 anymore) do things to help them be attractive or enhance their natural beauty all the time... working out, tanning salons, a new haircut, eating right... and why not? There is a reason you don't see fat, pale, hairy, nasty women in porno films... Well, i guess you do in some, but that isn't the image conjured up hearing the word "pornstar" without the word "fetish" attached somewhere...
And beauty coming from the inside?... Actually, I could argue that personality is just another tool we use to enhance beauty... Personality can make a less attractive person more attractive and more attractive person less attractive.. However, personality can only sway things plus or minus a certain amount though... Even the funniest joke has never made me look at an ugly girl like she were a pinup model... My personal experience with the saying "beauty comes from the inside" is that ugly people say it...I had a friend who wasn't very attractive, he would bring up what a terrific person he was when the pretty girl wouldn't talk to him... This guy was not out at the bar trying to get to know ugly women because they were likely fascinating people...Love also influences beauty, but i feel i have babbled enough...
Hmm... so toothbrushes and razors are now beauty products??? I brush my teeth to preserve them so I can eat non liquid foods. I shave my legs cos I like the feel of them shaved. Since when is a sunbed tan attractive??????? :shock:
Beauty CAN come from the inside... and I ain't ugly. And those people who claim to be nice often aren't as nice as they think they are.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I agree that I could never date someone that I wasn't physically attracted to but I think sometimes a physical attraction for someone can develop based on personality. Maybe its just me but I know that I have become physically attracted to men I normally wouldn't have given a second look. It's happen to me a few times and now I really could care less about a guys looks. I just feel like if we have a connction and they have the personality, they will become a better looking person to me.
it's happened to me quite a few times. But hey, we must be lying Just cos it hasn't happened to the 'shallow people' means it can't happen for normal folks right?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I'm sorry, your personality can be the best in the world, but if you're ugly I'm not going to date you. I need to be physically attracted to you to maintain a relationship and I'm not one of those crackpots that get boners from a good joke.
And this is why I choose to be single. :evil:
So if you got married and your wife got old and fat someday, or was horribly disfigured in an accident, would you leave her?
don't worry... in my experience and opinion, guys like soulsinging certainly exist... but he's not the only kinda guy out there... thank fuck
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Is this supposed to make some sort of sense? You talk about a guy that is NOT superficial and dates ugly girls and say what a jerk he was... how does that prove anything?
I haven't dated any particularly superficial women that I recall... I'm not really a hot guy so such women wouldn't have much interest in me. Though I will soon (hopefully) be making good money, so maybe a few will come my way... something to look forward to! I've dated one or two super hot, super smart girls, a few very pretty and incredibly sweet girls, a few average girls that I thought were cool, and one or two psychos. But I've never dated ugly and I won't... you can't maintain a relationship with someone that holds no sexual desire for you. And I've had my share of female friends that were very very cool but that I never even considered dating because there weren't remotely attractive.
The only difference between a good friend and a significant other is that you hook up with the latter and not the former. What does a girl offer me that I can't get from a good friend other than sex? So why should attraction have no role whatsoever in who I choose to date?
:? huh? I thought you champion the idea that men and women can't be JUST friends??? Oh and you may never have 'dated ugly' but I'm sure those 'average' girls you dated may have been ugly to some people
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
A woman not shaving or waxing her lip is really gross...who wants to talk to you if you have hairy legs, armpits and have a mustache...ewwwww. I hope you're kidding! If you're not, then being single is really not by choice! :?
ehhh... not all of us HAVE a moustache to begin with... or even hairy lips You're silly!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Is this supposed to make some sort of sense? You talk about a guy that is NOT superficial and dates ugly girls and say what a jerk he was... how does that prove anything?
I haven't dated any particularly superficial women that I recall... I'm not really a hot guy so such women wouldn't have much interest in me. Though I will soon (hopefully) be making good money, so maybe a few will come my way... something to look forward to! I've dated one or two super hot, super smart girls, a few very pretty and incredibly sweet girls, a few average girls that I thought were cool, and one or two psychos. But I've never dated ugly and I won't... you can't maintain a relationship with someone that holds no sexual desire for you. And I've had my share of female friends that were very very cool but that I never even considered dating because there weren't remotely attractive.
The only difference between a good friend and a significant other is that you hook up with the latter and not the former. What does a girl offer me that I can't get from a good friend other than sex? So why should attraction have no role whatsoever in who I choose to date?
:? huh? I thought you champion the idea that men and women can't be JUST friends??? Oh and you may never have 'dated ugly' but I'm sure those 'average' girls you dated may have been ugly to some people
Not if the girl's attractive. The guy will want to fuck her. And usually if the girl's unattractive, she wants to be with the guy because she's not used to guys giving her the time of day. So not usually. Most of the female friends I never considered dating at some point told me they were interested in me for that very reason.
And undoubtedly some of the not very special looking girls were ugly to some. What of it? The point is that if they were ugly to me, no amount of personality could have changed it or made them dateable.
A woman not shaving or waxing her lip is really gross...who wants to talk to you if you have hairy legs, armpits and have a mustache...ewwwww. I hope you're kidding! If you're not, then being single is really not by choice! :?
ehhh... not all of us HAVE a moustache to begin with... or even hairy lips You're silly!
No, not all of us have a mustache , but some women do and it's hideous! (Waxing is affordable)
The whole thing is that everybody can be attractive if they took just a little bit of time to make themselves look better. Woman could Put a little bit of blush on, brush their hair, and smile. You will be surprised how wonderful a smile can be and what it makes a person look like...I feel everyone is attractive in their own way and with a little help everybody will be happy!
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
I wouldn't necessarily leave... that might be hard on the kids and when you leave them they take half your money and property, so it might be a pricey proposition. But I'd stop having sex with her and seek sex elsewhere.
I hope you're at least up-front with her about that so she knows what she's getting into. And I hope you're okay with her seeking sex elsewhere as soon as your looks take a turn for the worse.
Of course I am. Fair is fair. Women are selfish and shallow too. I learned very well not to be surprised or bothered when she decides she can find better. That's human nature. I can't fight it and neither can she.
The fact is, there's no such thing as eternal marital love. There's just settling... being too tired or bored to bother anymore, so you become willing to take what you've got in order to have a long-term friend/roommate with easy access to sex. All marriage is is finding a good friend you can put up with for a while that will also let you screw them from time to time. Yeah, it's love. But it's not special or different or better than the love you feel for your best friends or your family. It just is.
And the thing to keep in mind is that no matter how much you THINK you love each other, it's only because you both figure you can't do a whole lot better. You've reached a good balance of attractiveness and livable personality and you're willing to stop. But when it comes down to it, the second your significant other thinks they can do a bit better and finds someone or something that fits the bill, they will toss you aside and go for it. Humans aren't built for monogamy. What's the divorce rate? Over 50%. Of the remaining 50% how many have cheated and stayed together? Have open relationships? Are miserable and stay together only out of obligation or because it's easier? Tons. You're talking maybe 25% of marriages TOPS being happy loving marriages, and probably 90% of those are from wet-brain religious folks. Look around here... how many members just since this board switch have been divorced, cheated on, dumped, had their hearts broken. Compare that to the number of people on here who married one person and stayed with them ever since and are happy as pigs in shit about it and never once strayed from said spouse or vice versa... how many such couples are there here? 3? 4?
The reaction I get is priceless... feigned, self-righteous pity about how I'm shallow and just don't understand true love. Bullshit. I understand it quite well and also felt firsthand just how cheap and disposable it is in the end. The desperate attempts to act like I'm not speaking true or I'm some sort of shallow bastard are such transparent attempts by people to cling to what they know isn't true... that life can have a fairy tale happily ever after disney ending... where an ugly person is seen as gorgeous and some deep spiritual bond overpowers all our base animal characteristics developed over millenia of evolution. The great part is that so much of it comes from single people... still hoping one day they'll find this nonexistent selfless "higher plane" of human sentiment and activity.
I'm not living in a fairy tale; I'm just as cynical as you are. I get it. Relationships suck. People cheat. You fall in love with someone you feel you can trust and they leave you. (Sorry that happened to you, by the way.)
But here's the difference between what you and I are saying: You seem to think it's natural for life/love to be this way and are willing to settle. I don't and I'm not. Guys ask me out all the time, but I choose not to start relationships with people who like me only for my physical appearance. But you're fine with that system. I would rather be alone (what's wrong with that anyway?) than be with someone who loves me only until the next hot girl comes along (and there will ALWAYS be someone hotter out there somewhere) or because they settled.
Fuck settling. Why would I want to share my home and my life with someone who doesn't make me genuinely happy? That would be more trouble than it's worth. Women used to do it for the financial stability, but now we are able to provide for ourselves. For the sex, you say? When I want to have sex I have no problems getting laid. Being tied down would only limit my options.
If you want to live with that attitude, go for it. As I said before, the primary problem I have with it is when someone convinces someone else to fall in love with them - and, God forbid, get married & have kids - without being honest that they have no intention of being faithful long-term. If you are, in fact, totally honest about your values, I give you props for that.
Is this a weird feeling to have regarding being attractive? ....perhaps it's more to do with with confidence, I don't know.
All my life, I've always had a hardtime keeping a steady job so at times I'm very low on money. I tend to be much less active and less motivated. For example: If I'm chatting up with a chick at a bar or someplace, and I find out she has a respectable job or career, I try my best to void going any further- regardless of how hot she is.
I don't know, is this just a guy thing? :oops:
i kinda know what you mean.... ive had times where im like that. eventually stopped doing it, but yeh, for me it was definitely a confidence thing. ill probably get it again at somepoint, hopefully not. its a very non-sensical thing to do really, but it was definitely tied in to the "not motivated, not feeling that attractive" thing.
I've known guys like this and to me it's analogous to the women who feel insecure about their looks. Just as I wish it weren't that way for women, I also wish it weren't that way for men. You don't have to have money to be valuable. (I will admit, however, that I don't want to financially support you.) You don't have to buy women drinks and pay for everything when you go out. And you certainly don't have to be intimidated by women with good careers.
On a side note, I have a female friend who's a doctor and I'm sure this works against her when it comes to finding guys to date. It's a lose/lose situation all around then.
ehhh... not all of us HAVE a moustache to begin with... or even hairy lips You're silly!
No, not all of us have a mustache , but some women do and it's hideous! (Waxing is affordable)
The whole thing is that everybody can be attractive if they took just a little bit of time to make themselves look better. Woman could Put a little bit of blush on, brush their hair, and smile. You will be surprised how wonderful a smile can be and what it makes a person look like...I feel everyone is attractive in their own way and with a little help everybody will be happy!
I'm so glad I don't live in your world... how do you find time to cook... or to live??? :shock: :(
so brushing your hair and smiling are now part of this beauty regime? Perhaps you should have made it clearer... you were giving the impression that in your world everybody has to spend hours simply making themselves presentable enough to leave the house. An attractive smile is not work nor is it part of a beauty regime
If everybody's attractive in their own way, why do they need help? Just to make others happy? If they're attractive in their own way and they're happy like that, why bother wearing some blusher?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Is this supposed to make some sort of sense? You talk about a guy that is NOT superficial and dates ugly girls and say what a jerk he was... how does that prove anything?
I haven't dated any particularly superficial women that I recall... I'm not really a hot guy so such women wouldn't have much interest in me. Though I will soon (hopefully) be making good money, so maybe a few will come my way... something to look forward to! I've dated one or two super hot, super smart girls, a few very pretty and incredibly sweet girls, a few average girls that I thought were cool, and one or two psychos. But I've never dated ugly and I won't... you can't maintain a relationship with someone that holds no sexual desire for you. And I've had my share of female friends that were very very cool but that I never even considered dating because there weren't remotely attractive.
The only difference between a good friend and a significant other is that you hook up with the latter and not the former. What does a girl offer me that I can't get from a good friend other than sex? So why should attraction have no role whatsoever in who I choose to date?
:? huh? I thought you champion the idea that men and women can't be JUST friends??? Oh and you may never have 'dated ugly' but I'm sure those 'average' girls you dated may have been ugly to some people
I think he's talking about male friends. You know, because women are only good for fucking. :roll:
I've known guys like this and to me it's analogous to the women who feel insecure about their looks. Just as I wish it weren't that way for women, I also wish it weren't that way for men. You don't have to have money to be valuable. (I will admit, however, that I don't want to financially support you.) You don't have to buy women drinks and pay for everything when you go out. And you certainly don't have to be intimidated by women with good careers.
On a side note, I have a female friend who's a doctor and I'm sure this works against her when it comes to finding guys to date. It's a lose/lose situation all around then.
I think it's kind of a natural/caveman thing... women are supposed to have the kids and men are supposed to provide for them. If you're not happy with her earning more than you, I think it shows that you want to take care of her... and it emasculates you if she's doing the providing. Ehh... ok, that's my psychoanalysis of the day
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I think he's talking about male friends. You know, because women are only good for fucking. :roll:
I'm glad I don't live in soulsinging's world either :oops:
I'm sure these 'ideals' work for some people... but not my kinda people.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
ehhh... not all of us HAVE a moustache to begin with... or even hairy lips You're silly!
No, not all of us have a mustache , but some women do and it's hideous! (Waxing is affordable)
The whole thing is that everybody can be attractive if they took just a little bit of time to make themselves look better. Woman could Put a little bit of blush on, brush their hair, and smile. You will be surprised how wonderful a smile can be and what it makes a person look like...I feel everyone is attractive in their own way and with a little help everybody will be happy!
I'm so glad I don't live in your world... how do you find time to cook... or to live??? :shock: :(
so brushing your hair and smiling are now part of this beauty regime? Perhaps you should have made it clearer... you were giving the impression that in your world everybody has to spend hours simply making themselves presentable enough to leave the house. An attractive smile is not work nor is it part of a beauty regime
If everybody's attractive in their own way, why do they need help? Just to make others happy? If they're attractive in their own way and they're happy like that, why bother wearing some blusher?
It doesn't take a lot of time...I get up at 7am to be at work at 8:15... and smiling is part of a beauty regime...do you know how many wrinkles you get by frowning?!?!?!
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb...,"
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Comments
All my life, I've always had a hardtime keeping a steady job so at times I'm very low on money. I tend to be much less active and less motivated. For example: If I'm chatting up with a chick at a bar or someplace, and I find out she has a respectable job or career, I try my best to void going any further- regardless of how hot she is.
I don't know, is this just a guy thing? :oops:
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
I totally understand that physical attraction trumps meaningful attraction for you. You've made that very clear. In that sense, perhaps you have been seeing the wrong women if they saw something other than the physical in you. Not to be mean, but this is how you're coming across.
I hope you're at least up-front with her about that so she knows what she's getting into. And I hope you're okay with her seeking sex elsewhere as soon as your looks take a turn for the worse.
I'm not making an argument that women shouldn't shave if they want to or looking down at people who do. I'm just recognizing the fact that we're paying money into a multi-billion dollar industry in large part because of insecurities induced by artibarary social standards of beauty.
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
As someone who's been married 30 years I can say from experience that the attraction that brings people together is bound to fade. Yes, you want to keep looking good for the person you care about but looks change over time whether you like it or not.
I was never someone that was considered "beautiful" so it's not like I've had to worry about losing my looks, but trust me, I'm long past the point in my life when I get hit on.
When it comes to standards of physical beauty, of course they matter. My point is that very few people can measure up to them completely and permanently without some kind of assistance. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much that matters to them. Even the most attractive people have shortcomings. And they can't maintain those looks over a lifetime. We all age. So in a relationship we have to decide if we can get past the fact that physical appearance isn't permanent.
And different things will attract different people. That's why some people like blondes and some brunettes. Some guys think hairy legs are gross, some think it's no big deal. Different cultures have different ideas of attractiveness.
Soulsinging, if you choose to be married, I hope you can move beyond just the physical attraction. I don't know how to explain it because there's just something different about the love you have for the person you've shared half your life with. Otherwise, I hope you can consider what scb said, that if you lose your hair and develop a paunch, it's fair for your wife to play by the same rules. Which I think would be pretty sad.
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Haha! No, I'm not kidding. (Although, I don't know your experience, but I don't grow a mustache.
I'm starting to think soulsinging and In_Hiding79 would make a good couple....
im totally with you on this thing.
for me, i have to admit that when meeting girls, its not all the make-up etc that will make me attracted to them GENERALLY. but then again sometimes girls can make themselves look very hot by doing it....some girls look far better without it. for some people it doesnt enhance their natural look at all, and for others they can look like 2 totally different people with/without make-up ( i find that really weird to be honest).
if a girl has some hair on her legs, or no make-up, or bad breath...i can still be attracted to her if she's physically good looking. and i also went out with a girl for about 2 years that i wasnt attracted to that much at the start...it is true that the physical attraction can grow because of others things going well.
anyways, each to their own i guess?
i kinda know what you mean.... ive had times where im like that. eventually stopped doing it, but yeh, for me it was definitely a confidence thing. ill probably get it again at somepoint, hopefully not. its a very non-sensical thing to do really, but it was definitely tied in to the "not motivated, not feeling that attractive" thing.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Of course I am. Fair is fair. Women are selfish and shallow too. I learned very well not to be surprised or bothered when she decides she can find better. That's human nature. I can't fight it and neither can she.
The fact is, there's no such thing as eternal marital love. There's just settling... being too tired or bored to bother anymore, so you become willing to take what you've got in order to have a long-term friend/roommate with easy access to sex. All marriage is is finding a good friend you can put up with for a while that will also let you screw them from time to time. Yeah, it's love. But it's not special or different or better than the love you feel for your best friends or your family. It just is.
And the thing to keep in mind is that no matter how much you THINK you love each other, it's only because you both figure you can't do a whole lot better. You've reached a good balance of attractiveness and livable personality and you're willing to stop. But when it comes down to it, the second your significant other thinks they can do a bit better and finds someone or something that fits the bill, they will toss you aside and go for it. Humans aren't built for monogamy. What's the divorce rate? Over 50%. Of the remaining 50% how many have cheated and stayed together? Have open relationships? Are miserable and stay together only out of obligation or because it's easier? Tons. You're talking maybe 25% of marriages TOPS being happy loving marriages, and probably 90% of those are from wet-brain religious folks. Look around here... how many members just since this board switch have been divorced, cheated on, dumped, had their hearts broken. Compare that to the number of people on here who married one person and stayed with them ever since and are happy as pigs in shit about it and never once strayed from said spouse or vice versa... how many such couples are there here? 3? 4?
The reaction I get is priceless... feigned, self-righteous pity about how I'm shallow and just don't understand true love. Bullshit. I understand it quite well and also felt firsthand just how cheap and disposable it is in the end. The desperate attempts to act like I'm not speaking true or I'm some sort of shallow bastard are such transparent attempts by people to cling to what they know isn't true... that life can have a fairy tale happily ever after disney ending... where an ugly person is seen as gorgeous and some deep spiritual bond overpowers all our base animal characteristics developed over millenia of evolution. The great part is that so much of it comes from single people... still hoping one day they'll find this nonexistent selfless "higher plane" of human sentiment and activity.
Beauty CAN come from the inside... and I ain't ugly. And those people who claim to be nice often aren't as nice as they think they are.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
:? huh? I thought you champion the idea that men and women can't be JUST friends??? Oh and you may never have 'dated ugly'
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Not if the girl's attractive. The guy will want to fuck her. And usually if the girl's unattractive, she wants to be with the guy because she's not used to guys giving her the time of day. So not usually. Most of the female friends I never considered dating at some point told me they were interested in me for that very reason.
And undoubtedly some of the not very special looking girls were ugly to some. What of it? The point is that if they were ugly to me, no amount of personality could have changed it or made them dateable.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Me too.....it was a great fantasy!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
No, not all of us have a mustache , but some women do and it's hideous! (Waxing is affordable)
The whole thing is that everybody can be attractive if they took just a little bit of time to make themselves look better. Woman could Put a little bit of blush on, brush their hair, and smile. You will be surprised how wonderful a smile can be and what it makes a person look like...I feel everyone is attractive in their own way and with a little help everybody will be happy!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
I'm not living in a fairy tale; I'm just as cynical as you are. I get it. Relationships suck. People cheat. You fall in love with someone you feel you can trust and they leave you. (Sorry that happened to you, by the way.)
But here's the difference between what you and I are saying: You seem to think it's natural for life/love to be this way and are willing to settle. I don't and I'm not. Guys ask me out all the time, but I choose not to start relationships with people who like me only for my physical appearance. But you're fine with that system. I would rather be alone (what's wrong with that anyway?) than be with someone who loves me only until the next hot girl comes along (and there will ALWAYS be someone hotter out there somewhere) or because they settled.
Fuck settling. Why would I want to share my home and my life with someone who doesn't make me genuinely happy? That would be more trouble than it's worth. Women used to do it for the financial stability, but now we are able to provide for ourselves. For the sex, you say? When I want to have sex I have no problems getting laid. Being tied down would only limit my options.
If you want to live with that attitude, go for it. As I said before, the primary problem I have with it is when someone convinces someone else to fall in love with them - and, God forbid, get married & have kids - without being honest that they have no intention of being faithful long-term. If you are, in fact, totally honest about your values, I give you props for that.
I've known guys like this and to me it's analogous to the women who feel insecure about their looks. Just as I wish it weren't that way for women, I also wish it weren't that way for men. You don't have to have money to be valuable. (I will admit, however, that I don't want to financially support you.) You don't have to buy women drinks and pay for everything when you go out. And you certainly don't have to be intimidated by women with good careers.
On a side note, I have a female friend who's a doctor and I'm sure this works against her when it comes to finding guys to date. It's a lose/lose situation all around then.
so brushing your hair and smiling are now part of this beauty regime? Perhaps you should have made it clearer... you were giving the impression that in your world everybody has to spend hours simply making themselves presentable enough to leave the house. An attractive smile is not work nor is it part of a beauty regime
If everybody's attractive in their own way, why do they need help? Just to make others happy? If they're attractive in their own way and they're happy like that, why bother wearing some blusher?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I think he's talking about male friends. You know, because women are only good for fucking. :roll:
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I'm sure these 'ideals' work for some people... but not my kinda people.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
It doesn't take a lot of time...I get up at 7am to be at work at 8:15... and smiling is part of a beauty regime...do you know how many wrinkles you get by frowning?!?!?!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."