is jesus christ being sworn in today?

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

as to the passport arguement - i've read it time and again. dunk said americans don't step off their front doorstep.....and i disagreed. one can travel a LOT and FAR, right within the USA, meet many different cultures, be richly experienced in different cultures - damn, i can do so every day at work, to/from work.....NYC....without ever utilizing a passport.

as is the same in London, Marseille, Madrid, Berlin... etc.

the passport thing is because its very hard to say "greatest country in the world" when 85% of that country has never been across a national border... actually its very easy to say that... its just very hard to corroborate when having never experience more of the 'world'.. other countries and cultures.

decides2dream

dunkman wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

as to the passport arguement - i've read it time and again. dunk said americans don't step off their front doorstep.....and i disagreed. one can travel a LOT and FAR, right within the USA, meet many different cultures, be richly experienced in different cultures - damn, i can do so every day at work, to/from work.....NYC....without ever utilizing a passport.

as is the same in London, Marseille, Madrid, Berlin... etc.

the passport thing is because its very hard to say "greatest country in the world" when 85% of that country has never been across a national border... actually its very easy to say that... its just very hard to corroborate when having never experience more of the 'world'.. other countries and cultures.

and the average citizen living in the middle of nowhere in france, or italy, or where have you...is well-traveled? you know this why?....simply b/c they have a passport? that is proof enough?


i find it funny how you continually spout off about american beliefs, ways of life, etc...how we, as a country are so insular, untraveled, etc...and yet....you've not even stepped foot on american soil once. hmmmmm.....oh but you can know so much about us, our way of life, etc.....how? why? or, yes...from other experiences.

and you want to argue the whole 'greatest country in the world'...go ahead! i've not disputed it's stupid. i just find it amazing that somehow it actually effects you, insults you, or what exactly? what difference does it make in your world if some guy in iowa who never stepped foot off his front porch happens to think he lives in the greatest country in the world? it's a feeling, an opinion.....not rooted in 'fact'...but in pride, perhaps misguided....but a love for where you live, i just don't see the 'offense' in it.


and again, for something you find so boring...you sure like to talk about it a lot. me, if a subject bores me, it bores me...and i don't waste a moment of my time on it unless absolutely necessary.

fanch75

So does one need to visit every country in the world in order to opine on them? I spent 3 weeks in South America and a week in Mexico - does that mean I am better positioned to have an opinion than someone who has studied world cultures, but maybe hasn't ventured outside of the country.

Maybe I'm just a working stiff who has real everyday life and I have a family to support. Maybe I love my life and don't want to live somewhere else, because I'm comfortable and I like it. I like my BBQ inmy backyard, I like having friends over to watch a ballgame. I love it, so God Bless America! That's one perspective. What's wrong with that?

Do I need to hear every band in the world in order to say "Pearl Jam is the best band in the world"? How would I know if I never heard everything else?

I think the OP's statement has been beaten to death. You love Scotland. Helen loves where ever she's from. The OP loves living in the US. Good for all of us.

decides2dream

fanch75 wrote:

So does one need to visit every country in the world in order to opine on them? I spent 3 weeks in South America and a week in Mexico - does that mean I am better positioned to have an opinion than someone who has studied world cultures, but maybe hasn't ventured outside of the country.

Do I need to hear every band in the world in order to say "Pearl Jam is the best band in the world"? How would I know if I never heard everything else?

I think the OP's statement has been beaten to death. You love Scotland. Helen loves where ever she's from. The OP loves living in the US. Good for all of us.

bless you fanch.

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

dunkman wrote:

fanch75 wrote:

And how do you know it's boring here? Have you lived here? You are speculating. You are voicing your speculation/opinion based on your perspective, just like the OP with his "best country ever" statement.

never said it was boring over there. i said that the continual spouting of that phrase is 'boring' in itself. I never said it was boring in america.

8 pages of response - of course not all by you - simply to express how bored you are with a phrase? sounds like great interest to me. funny you find it 'continually' spouted. i LIVE here and the only occasion i hear it is for poltical speeches, national holidays and the like. amazingly, i don't hear people continually spouting off 'god bless america' on a daily basis.

continual: occurring frequently and regularly... are national holidays and the like not frequent or regular?

you live in NYC dont you... i'd guess if you moved to a midwest state you might see a bit more of the whole "god bless america" bumper stickers... just as London isnt a place where you might see little old ladies meeting for high tea whilst their husbands play cricket on the village green and toast the queen after the game.. then NYC maybe isnt the place you'd see flags on every doorstep.. but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?

i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

and the average citizen living in the middle of nowhere in france, or italy, or where have you...is well-traveled? you know this why?....simply b/c they have a passport? that is proof enough?

nope never said that.

decides2dream wrote:

i find it funny how you continually spout off about american beliefs, ways of life, etc...how we, as a country are so insular, untraveled, etc...and yet....you've not even stepped foot on american soil once. hmmmmm.....oh but you can know so much about us, our way of life, etc.....how? why? or, yes...from other experiences.

nope, never said that.

decides2dream wrote:

and you want to argue the whole 'greatest country in the world'...go ahead! i've not disputed it's stupid. i just find it amazing that somehow it actually effects you, insults you, or what exactly? what difference does it make in your world if some guy in iowa who never stepped foot off his front porch happens to think he lives in the greatest country in the world? it's a feeling, an opinion.....not rooted in 'fact'...but in pride, perhaps misguided....but a love for where you live, i just don't see the 'offense' in it.

you dont see the offense in it? so that means i shouldnt? i dislike idiocy... that guy from idaho saying that is idiocy...

decides2dream wrote:

and again, for something you find so boring...you sure like to talk about it a lot. me, if a subject bores me, it bores me...and i don't waste a moment of my time on it unless absolutely necessary.

thats you, not me.

chromiam

dunkman wrote:

but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?

i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.

Did you ever stop to think or ask why that is the case in Virginia?? That it could be a direct result of a high concentration of people and families who are or have family members serving in the military??? That they see it as a way of supporting those people they love who are serving their country.... No, from your statement and previous ones I don't think you have...

Heineken Helen

decides2dream wrote:

so sure, if mine was to expire and i didn't have a foreign trip planned, i'd not renew until i did. so that little 'fact' is deceiving.

see that's where we differ. I HAVE to have a passport at all times... ya never know when a last minute trip would come up... even if we didn't need a passport to travel throughout europe... when you book a trip you don't need the added hassle of getting a new passport too so it's best to do it when you don't think you need it.

dunkman

fanch75 wrote:

So does one need to visit every country in the world in order to opine on them? I spent 3 weeks in South America and a week in Mexico - does that mean I am better positioned to have an opinion than someone who has studied world cultures, but maybe hasn't ventured outside of the country.

it sorta helps to know a bit about what you're talking about... not everyone in america is a student of world cultures... the same people on here who say "greatest country in the world" quite possibly are unaware that there are in fact other countries in the world... be like me saying Scotland makes the best record players in the world without actually hearing or using any other record player produced by another country.... quite an arrogant and pompous claim dont you think? greatest country in the world... yet never having been in another country?

fanch75 wrote:

Maybe I'm just a working stiff who has real everyday life and I have a family to support. Maybe I love my life and don't want to live somewhere else, because I'm comfortable and I like it. I like my BBQ inmy backyard, I like having friends over to watch a ballgame. I love it, so God Bless America! That's one perspective. What's wrong with that?

Do I need to hear every band in the world in order to say "Pearl Jam is the best band in the world"? How would I know if I never heard everything else?

I think the OP's statement has been beaten to death. You love Scotland. Helen loves where ever she's from. The OP loves living in the US. Good for all of us.

i do love Scotland... i dont have a flag.. i dont have a bumper sticker.. i dont want god to bless us... i just like where i live and thats enough for me... i dont feel the compulsion to shout it from the rooftops... i love Scotland... but i've been to many other countries... i can see things they do better.. some worse... i'd still rather live here.. but i wouldnt be so arrogant to say it was the greatest country in the world as you have the opportunity to fulfil a dream... my dreams are to watch strippers... i can do that here. its no biggie.

dunkman

chromiam wrote:

dunkman wrote:

but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?

i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.

Did you ever stop to think or ask why that is the case in Virginia?? That it could be a direct result of a high concentration of people and families who are or have family members serving in the military??? That they see it as a way of supporting those people they love who are serving their country.... No, from your statement and previous ones I don't think you have...

remove Virginia and replace with Idaho... same difference.

Heineken Helen

decides2dream wrote:

and the average citizen living in the middle of nowhere in france, or italy, or where have you...is well-traveled? you know this why?....simply b/c they have a passport? that is proof enough?




and again, for something you find so boring...you sure like to talk about it a lot. me, if a subject bores me, it bores me...and i don't waste a moment of my time on it unless absolutely necessary.

I come from the middle of nowhere in Ireland... and I knew ONE person who hadn't been out of the country... ONE... she's since rectified that... but many of us couldn't get our heads around that.

I believe this thread has only gone on so long cos people keep replying to dunk and refuting his points, and it's only polite to reply to someone who replies to you, right?

decides2dream

dunkman wrote:

somehow i erased your post dunk...oops, haha.

now who's pedantic?

'continuallly' to me, means often - like at least once a month. yes, we have national holidays annually, but really...there aren't THAT many, and unless you actively seek out parades and celebrations, not a whole lot of the 'god bles america' thing being heard. as to NY, amazingly, as an american, i have traveled a LOT...abroad, and at home. my father was an italian immigrant and it was his desire to see the USA...so every year we would visit a different state for a family holiday. beyond that.....even here in NY.....flags are everywhere....and sure, singing the national anthem and such is a part of our culture, baseball games and the like. i don't see anything wrong with patriotism, in and of itself. obviously, you do. and yes, that doesn't mean i am 'right' and you are 'wrong'.....i don't see this issue in such a light. we simply see it differently. i respect that your culture is different from mine. of course, you completely avoided my question - why you actually give a shit about it at all.....but hey, success! you have managed to bore me to tears on the topic. so thanks......i'm out!

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

you live in NYC dont you... i'd guess if you moved to a midwest state you might see a bit more of the whole "god bless america" bumper stickers... just as London isnt a place where you might see little old ladies meeting for high tea whilst their husbands play cricket on the village green and toast the queen after the game.. then NYC maybe isnt the place you'd see flags on every doorstep.. but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?

i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.

I've been to D2D's house (great night by the way and thank you again ) but I couldn't help noticing the flags on the neighbours doorsteps.

fanch75

Semantics, all.

Bottom line, nothing wrong with loving where you are from or how you celebrate it, as long as you're not being a dick about it saying "Scotland sucks because their record players suck" or whatever.

Nothing wrong with nationalism either. It continues your way of life (and all those great record players, of course). If there weren't a few nationalist folks in Scotland (insert any other country), I'm betting there wouldn't be a Scotland (insert any other country).

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

i don't see anything wrong with patriotism, in and of itself. obviously, you do. and yes, that doesn't mean i am 'right' and you are 'wrong'.....i don't see this issue in such a light. we simply see it differently. i respect that your culture is different from mine. of course, you completely avoided my question - why you actually give a shit about it at all.....but hey, success! you have managed to bore me to tears on the topic. so thanks......i'm out!

i dont think patriotism is wrong... i think the patriotism of somewhere like Croatia is a fine thing... i think just being patriotic for patriotic sakes is bad... teaching kids the songs and making them sing at ball games, having flags everywhere, bumper stickers, not actually questioning why you think you're country is great is a bad thing... just blindly accepting it.

as the start of this thread shows... i could ask most americans why they think their country is the greatest and i'll get the usual answers of

1. its possible to realise your dreams
2. freedom of speech

ehhh... thats all i usually get... all of which are 100% possible in most other 1st world countries.. so that's why i fail to see the need for the rhetoric

Heineken Helen

fanch75 wrote:

Semantics, all.

Bottom line, nothing wrong with loving where you are from or how you celebrate it, as long as you're not being a dick about it saying "Scotland sucks because their record players suck" or whatever.

Nothing wrong with nationalism either. It continues your way of life (and all those great record players, of course). If there weren't a few nationalist folks in Scotland (insert any other country), I'm betting there wouldn't be a Scotland (insert any other country).

I agree completely. I think it's just mainly that we see so many times how there are so many more possibilities in America... and its more a confusion thing... it certainly doesn't annoy me when someone says it but I just want them to THINK about what they're saying and clarify what they actually mean... cos all too often people say stuff without thinking but actually BELIEVE what they're saying. To me, travel's HUGELY important and, maybe it's just me not accepting that other people have different stuff, but I can't understand how people don't know about the world and how they don't WANT to know about the world.

soulsinging

dunkman wrote:

be like me saying Scotland makes the best record players in the world without actually hearing or using any other record player produced by another country.... quite an arrogant and pompous claim dont you think?

Nope. Ill-informed, subjective, and probably not very credible. But pompous and arrogant... not really.

soulsinging

dunkman wrote:

but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?

You do? When was the last time you were in Virginia?

dunkman

gvn2fly74 wrote:

Heineken Helen wrote:

that's cool... there ARE great possibilities in the US.. but NO greater than there are in many other countries throughout the world. Just remember that. Also, the US IS a great country, but no greater than many other countries.

what ever :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

fanch...this is what I've put up with on here many many times.

on the old forum i could find you many examples of americans saying to me "what would you know, you live in a piss ant little country" or words to that effect...

many examples.

fanch75

Well some people have family or maybe don't have the means or desire to travel all over. Maybe their priority is the betterment of those they are responsible for the welfare for, and thus they don't have the time, means, or desire to go all over the world. Maybe going to the beach on the east coast is fun and good enough.

Not everyone has this desire, this drive to become an advanced-level white person and "become" culturally aware because they did the world a huge favor by riding a bus in another country or drinking a beer they can't pronounce (but can't wait to tell all their countrymen about).

This thread has gone waaaay off topic.