as to the passport arguement - i've read it time and again. dunk said americans don't step off their front doorstep.....and i disagreed. one can travel a LOT and FAR, right within the USA, meet many different cultures, be richly experienced in different cultures - damn, i can do so every day at work, to/from work.....NYC....without ever utilizing a passport.
as is the same in London, Marseille, Madrid, Berlin... etc.
the passport thing is because its very hard to say "greatest country in the world" when 85% of that country has never been across a national border... actually its very easy to say that... its just very hard to corroborate when having never experience more of the 'world'.. other countries and cultures.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
as to the passport arguement - i've read it time and again. dunk said americans don't step off their front doorstep.....and i disagreed. one can travel a LOT and FAR, right within the USA, meet many different cultures, be richly experienced in different cultures - damn, i can do so every day at work, to/from work.....NYC....without ever utilizing a passport.
as is the same in London, Marseille, Madrid, Berlin... etc.
the passport thing is because its very hard to say "greatest country in the world" when 85% of that country has never been across a national border... actually its very easy to say that... its just very hard to corroborate when having never experience more of the 'world'.. other countries and cultures.
and the average citizen living in the middle of nowhere in france, or italy, or where have you...is well-traveled? you know this why?....simply b/c they have a passport? that is proof enough?
i find it funny how you continually spout off about american beliefs, ways of life, etc...how we, as a country are so insular, untraveled, etc...and yet....you've not even stepped foot on american soil once. hmmmmm.....oh but you can know so much about us, our way of life, etc.....how? why? or, yes...from other experiences.
and you want to argue the whole 'greatest country in the world'...go ahead! i've not disputed it's stupid. i just find it amazing that somehow it actually effects you, insults you, or what exactly? what difference does it make in your world if some guy in iowa who never stepped foot off his front porch happens to think he lives in the greatest country in the world? it's a feeling, an opinion.....not rooted in 'fact'...but in pride, perhaps misguided....but a love for where you live, i just don't see the 'offense' in it.
and again, for something you find so boring...you sure like to talk about it a lot. me, if a subject bores me, it bores me...and i don't waste a moment of my time on it unless absolutely necessary.
So does one need to visit every country in the world in order to opine on them? I spent 3 weeks in South America and a week in Mexico - does that mean I am better positioned to have an opinion than someone who has studied world cultures, but maybe hasn't ventured outside of the country.
Maybe I'm just a working stiff who has real everyday life and I have a family to support. Maybe I love my life and don't want to live somewhere else, because I'm comfortable and I like it. I like my BBQ inmy backyard, I like having friends over to watch a ballgame. I love it, so God Bless America! That's one perspective. What's wrong with that?
Do I need to hear every band in the world in order to say "Pearl Jam is the best band in the world"? How would I know if I never heard everything else?
I think the OP's statement has been beaten to death. You love Scotland. Helen loves where ever she's from. The OP loves living in the US. Good for all of us.
So does one need to visit every country in the world in order to opine on them? I spent 3 weeks in South America and a week in Mexico - does that mean I am better positioned to have an opinion than someone who has studied world cultures, but maybe hasn't ventured outside of the country.
Do I need to hear every band in the world in order to say "Pearl Jam is the best band in the world"? How would I know if I never heard everything else?
I think the OP's statement has been beaten to death. You love Scotland. Helen loves where ever she's from. The OP loves living in the US. Good for all of us.
And how do you know it's boring here? Have you lived here? You are speculating. You are voicing your speculation/opinion based on your perspective, just like the OP with his "best country ever" statement.
never said it was boring over there. i said that the continual spouting of that phrase is 'boring' in itself. I never said it was boring in america.
8 pages of response - of course not all by you - simply to express how bored you are with a phrase? sounds like great interest to me. funny you find it 'continually' spouted. i LIVE here and the only occasion i hear it is for poltical speeches, national holidays and the like. amazingly, i don't hear people continually spouting off 'god bless america' on a daily basis.
continual: occurring frequently and regularly... are national holidays and the like not frequent or regular?
you live in NYC dont you... i'd guess if you moved to a midwest state you might see a bit more of the whole "god bless america" bumper stickers... just as London isnt a place where you might see little old ladies meeting for high tea whilst their husbands play cricket on the village green and toast the queen after the game.. then NYC maybe isnt the place you'd see flags on every doorstep.. but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?
i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
and the average citizen living in the middle of nowhere in france, or italy, or where have you...is well-traveled? you know this why?....simply b/c they have a passport? that is proof enough?
i find it funny how you continually spout off about american beliefs, ways of life, etc...how we, as a country are so insular, untraveled, etc...and yet....you've not even stepped foot on american soil once. hmmmmm.....oh but you can know so much about us, our way of life, etc.....how? why? or, yes...from other experiences.
and you want to argue the whole 'greatest country in the world'...go ahead! i've not disputed it's stupid. i just find it amazing that somehow it actually effects you, insults you, or what exactly? what difference does it make in your world if some guy in iowa who never stepped foot off his front porch happens to think he lives in the greatest country in the world? it's a feeling, an opinion.....not rooted in 'fact'...but in pride, perhaps misguided....but a love for where you live, i just don't see the 'offense' in it.
you dont see the offense in it? so that means i shouldnt? i dislike idiocy... that guy from idaho saying that is idiocy...
and again, for something you find so boring...you sure like to talk about it a lot. me, if a subject bores me, it bores me...and i don't waste a moment of my time on it unless absolutely necessary.
thats you, not me.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?
i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.
Did you ever stop to think or ask why that is the case in Virginia?? That it could be a direct result of a high concentration of people and families who are or have family members serving in the military??? That they see it as a way of supporting those people they love who are serving their country.... No, from your statement and previous ones I don't think you have...
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so sure, if mine was to expire and i didn't have a foreign trip planned, i'd not renew until i did. so that little 'fact' is deceiving.
see that's where we differ. I HAVE to have a passport at all times... ya never know when a last minute trip would come up... even if we didn't need a passport to travel throughout europe... when you book a trip you don't need the added hassle of getting a new passport too so it's best to do it when you don't think you need it.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
So does one need to visit every country in the world in order to opine on them? I spent 3 weeks in South America and a week in Mexico - does that mean I am better positioned to have an opinion than someone who has studied world cultures, but maybe hasn't ventured outside of the country.
it sorta helps to know a bit about what you're talking about... not everyone in america is a student of world cultures... the same people on here who say "greatest country in the world" quite possibly are unaware that there are in fact other countries in the world... be like me saying Scotland makes the best record players in the world without actually hearing or using any other record player produced by another country.... quite an arrogant and pompous claim dont you think? greatest country in the world... yet never having been in another country?
Maybe I'm just a working stiff who has real everyday life and I have a family to support. Maybe I love my life and don't want to live somewhere else, because I'm comfortable and I like it. I like my BBQ inmy backyard, I like having friends over to watch a ballgame. I love it, so God Bless America! That's one perspective. What's wrong with that?
Do I need to hear every band in the world in order to say "Pearl Jam is the best band in the world"? How would I know if I never heard everything else?
I think the OP's statement has been beaten to death. You love Scotland. Helen loves where ever she's from. The OP loves living in the US. Good for all of us.
i do love Scotland... i dont have a flag.. i dont have a bumper sticker.. i dont want god to bless us... i just like where i live and thats enough for me... i dont feel the compulsion to shout it from the rooftops... i love Scotland... but i've been to many other countries... i can see things they do better.. some worse... i'd still rather live here.. but i wouldnt be so arrogant to say it was the greatest country in the world as you have the opportunity to fulfil a dream... my dreams are to watch strippers... i can do that here. its no biggie.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?
i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.
Did you ever stop to think or ask why that is the case in Virginia?? That it could be a direct result of a high concentration of people and families who are or have family members serving in the military??? That they see it as a way of supporting those people they love who are serving their country.... No, from your statement and previous ones I don't think you have...
remove Virginia and replace with Idaho... same difference.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
and the average citizen living in the middle of nowhere in france, or italy, or where have you...is well-traveled? you know this why?....simply b/c they have a passport? that is proof enough?
and again, for something you find so boring...you sure like to talk about it a lot. me, if a subject bores me, it bores me...and i don't waste a moment of my time on it unless absolutely necessary.
I come from the middle of nowhere in Ireland... and I knew ONE person who hadn't been out of the country... ONE... she's since rectified that... but many of us couldn't get our heads around that.
I believe this thread has only gone on so long cos people keep replying to dunk and refuting his points, and it's only polite to reply to someone who replies to you, right?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
'continuallly' to me, means often - like at least once a month. yes, we have national holidays annually, but really...there aren't THAT many, and unless you actively seek out parades and celebrations, not a whole lot of the 'god bles america' thing being heard. as to NY, amazingly, as an american, i have traveled a LOT...abroad, and at home. my father was an italian immigrant and it was his desire to see the USA...so every year we would visit a different state for a family holiday. beyond that.....even here in NY.....flags are everywhere....and sure, singing the national anthem and such is a part of our culture, baseball games and the like. i don't see anything wrong with patriotism, in and of itself. obviously, you do. and yes, that doesn't mean i am 'right' and you are 'wrong'.....i don't see this issue in such a light. we simply see it differently. i respect that your culture is different from mine. of course, you completely avoided my question - why you actually give a shit about it at all.....but hey, success! you have managed to bore me to tears on the topic. so thanks......i'm out!
you live in NYC dont you... i'd guess if you moved to a midwest state you might see a bit more of the whole "god bless america" bumper stickers... just as London isnt a place where you might see little old ladies meeting for high tea whilst their husbands play cricket on the village green and toast the queen after the game.. then NYC maybe isnt the place you'd see flags on every doorstep.. but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?
i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.
I've been to D2D's house (great night by the way and thank you again ) but I couldn't help noticing the flags on the neighbours doorsteps.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Bottom line, nothing wrong with loving where you are from or how you celebrate it, as long as you're not being a dick about it saying "Scotland sucks because their record players suck" or whatever.
Nothing wrong with nationalism either. It continues your way of life (and all those great record players, of course). If there weren't a few nationalist folks in Scotland (insert any other country), I'm betting there wouldn't be a Scotland (insert any other country).
i don't see anything wrong with patriotism, in and of itself. obviously, you do. and yes, that doesn't mean i am 'right' and you are 'wrong'.....i don't see this issue in such a light. we simply see it differently. i respect that your culture is different from mine. of course, you completely avoided my question - why you actually give a shit about it at all.....but hey, success! you have managed to bore me to tears on the topic. so thanks......i'm out!
i dont think patriotism is wrong... i think the patriotism of somewhere like Croatia is a fine thing... i think just being patriotic for patriotic sakes is bad... teaching kids the songs and making them sing at ball games, having flags everywhere, bumper stickers, not actually questioning why you think you're country is great is a bad thing... just blindly accepting it.
as the start of this thread shows... i could ask most americans why they think their country is the greatest and i'll get the usual answers of
1. its possible to realise your dreams
2. freedom of speech
ehhh... thats all i usually get... all of which are 100% possible in most other 1st world countries.. so that's why i fail to see the need for the rhetoric
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Bottom line, nothing wrong with loving where you are from or how you celebrate it, as long as you're not being a dick about it saying "Scotland sucks because their record players suck" or whatever.
Nothing wrong with nationalism either. It continues your way of life (and all those great record players, of course). If there weren't a few nationalist folks in Scotland (insert any other country), I'm betting there wouldn't be a Scotland (insert any other country).
I agree completely. I think it's just mainly that we see so many times how there are so many more possibilities in America... and its more a confusion thing... it certainly doesn't annoy me when someone says it but I just want them to THINK about what they're saying and clarify what they actually mean... cos all too often people say stuff without thinking but actually BELIEVE what they're saying. To me, travel's HUGELY important and, maybe it's just me not accepting that other people have different stuff, but I can't understand how people don't know about the world and how they don't WANT to know about the world.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
be like me saying Scotland makes the best record players in the world without actually hearing or using any other record player produced by another country.... quite an arrogant and pompous claim dont you think?
Nope. Ill-informed, subjective, and probably not very credible. But pompous and arrogant... not really.
but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?
You do? When was the last time you were in Virginia?
that's cool... there ARE great possibilities in the US.. but NO greater than there are in many other countries throughout the world. Just remember that. Also, the US IS a great country, but no greater than many other countries.
what ever :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
fanch...this is what I've put up with on here many many times.
on the old forum i could find you many examples of americans saying to me "what would you know, you live in a piss ant little country" or words to that effect...
many examples.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Well some people have family or maybe don't have the means or desire to travel all over. Maybe their priority is the betterment of those they are responsible for the welfare for, and thus they don't have the time, means, or desire to go all over the world. Maybe going to the beach on the east coast is fun and good enough.
Not everyone has this desire, this drive to become an advanced-level white person and "become" culturally aware because they did the world a huge favor by riding a bus in another country or drinking a beer they can't pronounce (but can't wait to tell all their countrymen about).
be like me saying Scotland makes the best record players in the world without actually hearing or using any other record player produced by another country.... quite an arrogant and pompous claim dont you think?
Nope. Ill-informed, subjective, and probably not very credible. But pompous and arrogant... not really.
arrogant: having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride;
pompous: grandiloquent: puffed up with vanity
nope... they fit everything i've said imo..
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
arrogant: having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride;
pompous: grandiloquent: puffed up with vanity
nope... they fit everything i've said imo..
Those are questions of motive and sentiment. And you don't know why people say what they do. It's a statement of subjective opinion. Whether you think it's merited or not is another issue and your judgment call. So let's hear your judgment... tell me about those firsthan experiences with vanity, overbearing pride, and unwarranted importance in Virginia.
but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?
You do? When was the last time you were in Virginia?
yes... silly time has arrived. i havent been to Virginia... as previously stated... a big part of my wife's family live there... i;ve seen the photos... read the emails about Thanksgiving day... i;ve watched her cousins videos he makes about him growing up bisexual in Chester, VA... blah de blah... her uncle is scottish and moved there aged 19... he talks about the flags... when he brings his family over he has to explain why scotland doesnt have flags on every 2nd doorway.
its easy to know about things from 'talking' to people... you could have a chat with someone who had seen the Himalayas and described the funeral process of the people of Nepal.. leaving their dead out for the birds to eat.. but because you hadn't been i wouldnt believe you.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Well some people have family or maybe don't have the means or desire to travel all over. Maybe their priority is the betterment of those they are responsible for the welfare for, and thus they don't have the time, means, or desire to go all over the world. Maybe going to the beach on the east coast is fun and good enough.
Not everyone has this desire, this drive to become an advanced-level white person and "become" culturally aware because they did the world a huge favor by riding a bus in another country or drinking a beer they can't pronounce (but can't wait to tell all their countrymen about).
This thread has gone waaaay off topic.
If that's how you view travel, I can see why you'd want to stay at home with your family :? to me, I want to SEE the things that I've seen in pictures... I wanna just go off and see where I end up, what kinda people I meet, what amazing stuff I see, what brilliant food I eat that I'd never get to eat here, experience how people live in other countries and compare it to my own, maybe see if it's someplace I'd consider living in the future... not cos it makes me more culturally advanced :roll: but cos it makes me happy. I don't go to another country to ride a bus... although I have done cos it was the easiest option. And I don't care if the beer's pronouncable... as long as it's beer!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
arrogant: having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride;
pompous: grandiloquent: puffed up with vanity
nope... they fit everything i've said imo..
Those are questions of motive and sentiment. And you don't know why people say what they do. It's a statement of subjective opinion. Whether you think it's merited or not is another issue and your judgment call. So let's hear your judgment... tell me about those firsthan experiences with vanity, overbearing pride, and unwarranted importance in Virginia.
is patriotism a huge thing in Virginia or not.
i believe, through what i've heard, read and seen that it is.
if its not then prove me wrong... have you been to Virginia?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
If that's how you view travel, I can see why you'd want to stay at home with your family :? to me, I want to SEE the things that I've seen in pictures... I wanna just go off and see where I end up, what kinda people I meet, what amazing stuff I see, what brilliant food I eat that I'd never get to eat here, experience how people live in other countries and compare it to my own, maybe see if it's someplace I'd consider living in the future... not cos it makes me more culturally advanced :roll: but cos it makes me happy. I don't go to another country to ride a bus... although I have done cos it was the easiest option. And I don't care if the beer's pronouncable... as long as it's beer!
Personally, I love travel. I view travel the same as you do (although I have no desire to live anywhere else because of ties I have here) I wish I could get a job where I get paid to travel & listen to metal all day. That's my perspective. You described your perspective. Not everyone has that same perspective.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
so sure, if mine was to expire and i didn't have a foreign trip planned, i'd not renew until i did. so that little 'fact' is deceiving.
see that's where we differ. I HAVE to have a passport at all times... ya never know when a last minute trip would come up... even if we didn't need a passport to travel throughout europe... when you book a trip you don't need the added hassle of getting a new passport too so it's best to do it when you don't think you need it.
Most Europeans actually don't need a passport to travel in Europe, national ID cards are enough (ok, there isn't any in the UK, yet, and maybe not in Ireland either).. but I renewed mine as soon as it expired just in case I had to venture further out.. which was certainly a good thing last year when I decided on a Tuesday to jump on a plane to LA on the Saturday to see Ed play :P
Meeting people from different places in your own country is one thing but it's very different to BE in a different place, be the minority too (and many expats are not typical of their original country btw, and America seems to very strongly push people to give up their culture and become just Americans).
It's funny because the flag waving, 'god bless America' and all that nationalistic (and religious) stuff cries out more of insecurity than confidence, the need to make up an identity lacking historical reality.
If that's how you view travel, I can see why you'd want to stay at home with your family :? to me, I want to SEE the things that I've seen in pictures... I wanna just go off and see where I end up, what kinda people I meet, what amazing stuff I see, what brilliant food I eat that I'd never get to eat here, experience how people live in other countries and compare it to my own, maybe see if it's someplace I'd consider living in the future... not cos it makes me more culturally advanced :roll: but cos it makes me happy. I don't go to another country to ride a bus... although I have done cos it was the easiest option. And I don't care if the beer's pronouncable... as long as it's beer!
Personally, I love travel. I view travel the same as you do (although I have no desire to live anywhere else because of ties I have here) I wish I could get a job where I get paid to travel & listen to metal all day. That's my perspective. You described your perspective. Not everyone has that same perspective.
I KNOW... I did say that it's probably my problem that I don't understand why everyone doesn't have that perspective. I'm living in a different country at the moment... but it will be a while now before I can afford to travel :( and I hate not having something planned. I don't know if I'd want a job where you're paid to travel... my boyfriend has one of those and he rarely gets to do anything in those places... usually just meeting clients and having them entertain ya. I wouldn't like THAT!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Most Europeans actually don't need a passport to travel in Europe, national ID cards are enough (ok, there isn't any in the UK, yet, and maybe not in Ireland either).. but I renewed mine as soon as it expired just in case I had to venture further out.. which was certainly a good thing last year when I decided on a Tuesday to jump on a plane to LA on the Saturday to see Ed play :P
Meeting people from different places in your own country is one thing but it's very different to BE in a different place, be the minority too (and many expats are not typical of their original country btw, and America seems to very strongly push people to give up their culture and become just Americans).
It's funny because the flag waving, 'god bless America' and all that nationalistic (and religious) stuff cries out more of insecurity than confidence, the need to make up an identity lacking historical reality.
Don't get me started on national ID cards :evil:
I agree though about people in other countries. Italians are the first nationality who spring to mind... they have a pretty bad reputation as tourists :oops: but when you GO to Italy you couldn't meet nicer people. And then there's the American tourists......................
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Comments
as is the same in London, Marseille, Madrid, Berlin... etc.
the passport thing is because its very hard to say "greatest country in the world" when 85% of that country has never been across a national border... actually its very easy to say that... its just very hard to corroborate when having never experience more of the 'world'.. other countries and cultures.
and the average citizen living in the middle of nowhere in france, or italy, or where have you...is well-traveled? you know this why?....simply b/c they have a passport? that is proof enough?
i find it funny how you continually spout off about american beliefs, ways of life, etc...how we, as a country are so insular, untraveled, etc...and yet....you've not even stepped foot on american soil once. hmmmmm.....oh but you can know so much about us, our way of life, etc.....how? why? or, yes...from other experiences.
and you want to argue the whole 'greatest country in the world'...go ahead! i've not disputed it's stupid. i just find it amazing that somehow it actually effects you, insults you, or what exactly? what difference does it make in your world if some guy in iowa who never stepped foot off his front porch happens to think he lives in the greatest country in the world? it's a feeling, an opinion.....not rooted in 'fact'...but in pride, perhaps misguided....but a love for where you live, i just don't see the 'offense' in it.
and again, for something you find so boring...you sure like to talk about it a lot. me, if a subject bores me, it bores me...and i don't waste a moment of my time on it unless absolutely necessary.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Maybe I'm just a working stiff who has real everyday life and I have a family to support. Maybe I love my life and don't want to live somewhere else, because I'm comfortable and I like it. I like my BBQ inmy backyard, I like having friends over to watch a ballgame. I love it, so God Bless America! That's one perspective. What's wrong with that?
Do I need to hear every band in the world in order to say "Pearl Jam is the best band in the world"? How would I know if I never heard everything else?
I think the OP's statement has been beaten to death. You love Scotland. Helen loves where ever she's from. The OP loves living in the US. Good for all of us.
bless you fanch.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
continual: occurring frequently and regularly... are national holidays and the like not frequent or regular?
you live in NYC dont you... i'd guess if you moved to a midwest state you might see a bit more of the whole "god bless america" bumper stickers... just as London isnt a place where you might see little old ladies meeting for high tea whilst their husbands play cricket on the village green and toast the queen after the game.. then NYC maybe isnt the place you'd see flags on every doorstep.. but in Virginia i know that patriotism is a huge huge thing... flags, standing up at high school ball games and hearing the anthem, etc etc ... at my high school if the national anthem came on we wouldnt know why?
i think inherent patriotism is a bad thing... teaching young kids aged 5-8 to respect the flag, go USA, hand on heart and singing god bless america is a bad thing imo.
nope never said that.
nope, never said that.
you dont see the offense in it? so that means i shouldnt? i dislike idiocy... that guy from idaho saying that is idiocy...
thats you, not me.
Did you ever stop to think or ask why that is the case in Virginia?? That it could be a direct result of a high concentration of people and families who are or have family members serving in the military??? That they see it as a way of supporting those people they love who are serving their country.... No, from your statement and previous ones I don't think you have...
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Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
it sorta helps to know a bit about what you're talking about... not everyone in america is a student of world cultures... the same people on here who say "greatest country in the world" quite possibly are unaware that there are in fact other countries in the world... be like me saying Scotland makes the best record players in the world without actually hearing or using any other record player produced by another country.... quite an arrogant and pompous claim dont you think? greatest country in the world... yet never having been in another country?
i do love Scotland... i dont have a flag.. i dont have a bumper sticker.. i dont want god to bless us... i just like where i live and thats enough for me... i dont feel the compulsion to shout it from the rooftops... i love Scotland... but i've been to many other countries... i can see things they do better.. some worse... i'd still rather live here.. but i wouldnt be so arrogant to say it was the greatest country in the world as you have the opportunity to fulfil a dream... my dreams are to watch strippers... i can do that here. its no biggie.
remove Virginia and replace with Idaho... same difference.
I believe this thread has only gone on so long cos people keep replying to dunk and refuting his points, and it's only polite to reply to someone who replies to you, right?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
now who's pedantic?
'continuallly' to me, means often - like at least once a month. yes, we have national holidays annually, but really...there aren't THAT many, and unless you actively seek out parades and celebrations, not a whole lot of the 'god bles america' thing being heard. as to NY, amazingly, as an american, i have traveled a LOT...abroad, and at home. my father was an italian immigrant and it was his desire to see the USA...so every year we would visit a different state for a family holiday. beyond that.....even here in NY.....flags are everywhere....and sure, singing the national anthem and such is a part of our culture, baseball games and the like. i don't see anything wrong with patriotism, in and of itself. obviously, you do. and yes, that doesn't mean i am 'right' and you are 'wrong'.....i don't see this issue in such a light. we simply see it differently. i respect that your culture is different from mine. of course, you completely avoided my question - why you actually give a shit about it at all.....but hey, success! you have managed to bore me to tears on the topic. so thanks......i'm out!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Bottom line, nothing wrong with loving where you are from or how you celebrate it, as long as you're not being a dick about it saying "Scotland sucks because their record players suck" or whatever.
Nothing wrong with nationalism either. It continues your way of life (and all those great record players, of course). If there weren't a few nationalist folks in Scotland (insert any other country), I'm betting there wouldn't be a Scotland (insert any other country).
i dont think patriotism is wrong... i think the patriotism of somewhere like Croatia is a fine thing... i think just being patriotic for patriotic sakes is bad... teaching kids the songs and making them sing at ball games, having flags everywhere, bumper stickers, not actually questioning why you think you're country is great is a bad thing... just blindly accepting it.
as the start of this thread shows... i could ask most americans why they think their country is the greatest and i'll get the usual answers of
1. its possible to realise your dreams
2. freedom of speech
ehhh... thats all i usually get... all of which are 100% possible in most other 1st world countries.. so that's why i fail to see the need for the rhetoric
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Nope. Ill-informed, subjective, and probably not very credible. But pompous and arrogant... not really.
You do? When was the last time you were in Virginia?
fanch...this is what I've put up with on here many many times.
on the old forum i could find you many examples of americans saying to me "what would you know, you live in a piss ant little country" or words to that effect...
many examples.
Not everyone has this desire, this drive to become an advanced-level white person and "become" culturally aware because they did the world a huge favor by riding a bus in another country or drinking a beer they can't pronounce (but can't wait to tell all their countrymen about).
This thread has gone waaaay off topic.
arrogant: having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride;
pompous: grandiloquent: puffed up with vanity
nope... they fit everything i've said imo..
Those are questions of motive and sentiment. And you don't know why people say what they do. It's a statement of subjective opinion. Whether you think it's merited or not is another issue and your judgment call. So let's hear your judgment... tell me about those firsthan experiences with vanity, overbearing pride, and unwarranted importance in Virginia.
yes... silly time has arrived. i havent been to Virginia... as previously stated... a big part of my wife's family live there... i;ve seen the photos... read the emails about Thanksgiving day... i;ve watched her cousins videos he makes about him growing up bisexual in Chester, VA... blah de blah... her uncle is scottish and moved there aged 19... he talks about the flags... when he brings his family over he has to explain why scotland doesnt have flags on every 2nd doorway.
its easy to know about things from 'talking' to people... you could have a chat with someone who had seen the Himalayas and described the funeral process of the people of Nepal.. leaving their dead out for the birds to eat.. but because you hadn't been i wouldnt believe you.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
is patriotism a huge thing in Virginia or not.
i believe, through what i've heard, read and seen that it is.
if its not then prove me wrong... have you been to Virginia?
Personally, I love travel. I view travel the same as you do (although I have no desire to live anywhere else because of ties I have here) I wish I could get a job where I get paid to travel & listen to metal all day. That's my perspective. You described your perspective. Not everyone has that same perspective.
Meeting people from different places in your own country is one thing but it's very different to BE in a different place, be the minority too (and many expats are not typical of their original country btw, and America seems to very strongly push people to give up their culture and become just Americans).
It's funny because the flag waving, 'god bless America' and all that nationalistic (and religious) stuff cries out more of insecurity than confidence, the need to make up an identity lacking historical reality.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I agree though about people in other countries. Italians are the first nationality who spring to mind... they have a pretty bad reputation as tourists :oops: but when you GO to Italy you couldn't meet nicer people. And then there's the American tourists......................
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you