Word, I had that Anchor Steam the other day. I was really drunk at the time though and don't remember it.
Decent. Last year's was better.
One from 2 or 3 years ago was horrendous. I still have a bottle.
I liked last year's a lot. Cant put my finger on this year's taste...kind of piney. I guess I will pop one open since I don't have shit to do for the next two weeks. My next work appointment isn't until January 8th :thumbup: . Haven't shaved since Wednesday...might grow it out. Shaving sucks.
sad to think that the end may be near. graph at the end of this article tells you all you need to know. Then again, wouldn't surprise me to see amaro give him a huge extension
Chase Utley‘s recent injury history:
June 28, 2010: Utley injures his thumb in Cincinnati trying to stretch a single into a double. He soon has surgery to repair a torn ligament and misses 49 days and 43 games in total.
Off-season, 2011: Utley, suffering from patellar tendinitis in his right knee, is initially given orders to “take it easy“. He did not appear once in a spring training game, and did not make his regular season debut until May 23. He missed 84 days (including spring training) and 45 regular season games in total.
Off-season, 2012: The left knee is the culprit this time. Manager Charlie Manuel was “in no hurry” to put Utley, battling chondromalacia, in the spring training lineup. Utley again does not appear once during spring training and does not make his regular season debut until June 27. He missed 120 days (including spring training) and 76 regular season games in total.
Despite missing 164 of 486 games (34 percent), Utley still ranks fourth among all second basemen in that span of time in Wins Above Replacement, per Baseball Reference.
Player WAR PA From To Age
Robinson Cano 21.2 2074 2010 2012 27-29
Dustin Pedroia 15.6 1705 2010 2012 26-28
Ian Kinsler 12.9 1914 2010 2012 28-30
Chase Utley 12.3 1327 2010 2012 31-33
Brandon Phillips 11.9 1985 2010 2012 29-31
Howie Kendrick 8.9 1835 2010 2012 26-28
Dan Uggla 8.4 1976 2010 2012 30-32
Omar Infante 7.7 1734 2010 2012 28-30
Mark Ellis 7.4 1475 2010 2012 33-35
Kelly Johnson 7.0 1865 2010 2012 28-30
Neil Walker 6.7 1661 2010 2012 24-26
Darwin Barney 6.6 1244 2010 2012 24-26
Dustin Ackley 5.9 1044 2011 2012 23-24
Aaron Hill 5.7 1819 2010 2012 28-30
Rickie Weeks 5.7 1946 2010 2012 27-29
Danny Espinosa 5.5 1428 2010 2012 23-25
Orlando Hudson 3.1 1296 2010 2012 32-34
Gordon Beckham 1.7 1637 2010 2012 23-25
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/21/2012.
By FanGraphs WAR, Utley ranks sixth, behind Cano, Ben Zobrist*, Pedroia, Phillips, and Kinsler. Even when he was besieged by injuries, sapping him of mobility and power, Utley was still among baseball’s best at his position.
* Zobrist does not appear in the above table because he did not play at least 80 percent of his games at second base. FanGraphs does not have a positional playing time filter.
The Phillies are in an interesting spot with Chase Utley. The 34-year-old is eligible for free agency after the 2013 season and the Phillies are in the midst of what appears to be a transitional phase. The 2014 roster very well could feature new, younger faces at catcher, second base, third base, and at both outfield corners depending on what if anything the Phillies do to finish out this off-season. Yes, for the first time since 2002, the Phillies may feature a roster that does not include Chase Utley. Diamonds aren’t forever.
GM Ruben Amaro must decide if his team will go into a total rebuild or will simply tread water until the roster is permuted to satisfaction. Just as he must choose between Carlos Ruiz and youth at the catching position, Amaro must do so at second base with Chase Utley. Freddy Galvis is the obvious heir to Utley’s throne despite an incredibly weak offensive game. Aside from Galvis, the Phillies don’t have any prospects at second base, meaning that other options would be found via free agency or via trade.
The 2014 free agent class at second base may include such names as Robinson Cano and Ben Zobrist (if his $7 million club option is denied, which seems unlikely at the moment), but the two will be 31 and 33 respectively. It is hard to project which second basemen will be made available via trade as it depends on many factors, including the success of their teams in 2013. Suffice it to say the Phillies will have a very hard time replacing Utley’s production, even the old, broken-down Utley of recent vintage.
The Phillies could sign Utley to a short-term contract extension, covering two or three years, at around $10 million per year. It would be risky since the second baseman hasn’t surpassed 115 games played in a season since 2009. Utley may see his impending free agency as his last chance at a big contract, so he could choose to test the waters, turning over a new leaf with a different team.
At the moment, Utley is one of just 27 players all-time with five seasons of seven or more WAR, according to Baseball Reference. Of the 21 others, only nine others had five consecutive years of seven or more WAR as Utley did from 2005-09. Utley is also third all-time in Phillies history in WAR, trailing Mike Schmidt and Richie Ashburn. He will likely surpass Ashburn this season with little effort.
Player WAR From To Age G PA
Mike Schmidt 103.0 1972 1989 22-39 2404 10062
Richie Ashburn 54.6 1948 1959 21-32 1794 8223
Chase Utley 53.3 2003 2012 24-33 1192 5140
Sherry Magee 45.7 1904 1914 19-29 1521 6314
Bobby Abreu 45.4 1998 2006 24-32 1353 5885
Jimmy Rollins 40.3 2000 2012 21-33 1792 8236
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/21/2012.
Guess I'm just hoping for one more big season from Chase. Although, yes, that would probably goad Amaro into giving him a big extension. But it might solidify his HoF credentials.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Guess I'm just hoping for one more big season from Chase. Although, yes, that would probably goad Amaro into giving him a big extension. But it might solidify his HoF credentials.
they should play some in LF, with the intent of moving him there for the final phase of his career. makes all too much sense though, so it will never happen
still a couple of decent pen arms available. should only take one year contracts for guys like howell or juan carlos oviedo.
The Philadelphia Phillies are kind of in an odd place on the baseball landscape right now. It would've been a mistake for Amaro to throw some pricey older free agents onto a roster that's already older and too expensive. But at the same time, Philadelphia has too many good players -- Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee and Cole Hamels, in particular -- to completely retreat.
So Amaro has worked within the parameters defined by the team's budget limitations. Because of the salary obligations to Lee (owed at least $87.5 million over the next three seasons), Ryan Howard (owed at least $105 million over the next four seasons), Hamels (who will make about $24 million annually over the next six seasons) and Chase Utley (who is entering the final year of his contract, and will make $15 million), the Phillies went for more modest upgrades.
Amaro traded for Michael Young to play third base (most of his salary will be paid by the Texas Rangers), traded for center fielder Ben Revere and signed reliever Mike Adams. So they look something like this:
1B: Ryan Howard
2B: Chase Utley
3B: Michael Young
SS: Jimmy Rollins
OF: John Mayberry Jr. (the Phillies could add a lefty-hitting complement)
CF: Ben Revere
OF: Domonic Brown/Darin Ruf
C: Carlos Ruiz (who will open 2013 with a 25-game suspension.)
SP: Roy Halladay
SP: Cliff Lee
SP: Cole Hamels
SP: Kyle Kendrick/Tyler Cloyd
SP: John Lannan
SU: Mike Adams
CL: Jonathan Papelbon
It's a roster good enough for success; on paper, they aren't as good as the Washington Nationals or the Atlanta Braves. The Phillies were at one of the most interesting crossroads in baseball last August, and you do wonder, with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, how different Philadelphia would be if the Phillies had found a way to take advantage of the Los Angeles Dodgers' hyper aggression.
Remember the first weekend after the trade deadline -- a few weeks before the blockbuster deal that L.A. made with Boston for Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett -- when the Dodgers placed a waiver claim on Cliff Lee? The Phillies never seriously considered the idea of allowing Lee to go to the Dodgers, choosing to pull the left-hander back from waivers.
But what if the Phillies had taken that opportunity, as the Red Sox later did, to reduce their salary obligations?
What if the Phillies had told the Dodgers: Look, you can have Cliff Lee, but you'll also have to take Howard and maybe Papelbon as well.
Which is what the Red Sox effectively did with Gonzalez: Yes, you can have him, but you also have to take Crawford and Beckett.
For Howard, 2012 was the first year of the five-year, $125 million extension he had signed with Philadelphia. If the Phillies had been able to shed all or most of that contract, as well as that of Lee and Papelbon (who is the game's highest-paid closer now, at $13 million annually, through 2015), it would have given them an immediate and incredible opportunity to remake the roster. Whether the Phillies had been able to package Howard with Lee, or Howard and Papelbon with Lee, Philadelphia might have gained payroll flexibility and set itself to move ahead with a younger roster.
There's no telling what the Dodgers' response would've been, of course. They valued Gonzalez partly because of his Mexican heritage and his Southern California roots, and perhaps they were more aggressive in the Red Sox deal than they ever would've been with the Phillies.
But they had been turned down by the Red Sox just before the July 31 trade deadline, and the Dodgers' ownership was devoted to the idea of making the team better, whatever the cost -- and they clearly had targeted Lee, repeatedly, and they did so again once his name popped up on waivers in early August.
At the time, some rival executives thought the Phillies' best play would've been to simply dump Lee's contract -- "A no-brainer," said one -- and that was before the industry was fully aware of how much money the Dodgers were willing to take on.
Maybe it would have been possible for the Phillies to move Lee, Howard and Papelbon; maybe not. There's really no way of knowing, because those decisions are made in real time.
The Phillies didn't really explore the Dodgers' interest in Lee after he was claimed on waivers, choosing to keep the pitcher. The Dodgers moved in another direction a few weeks later, in a big way, leaving the Lee claim as one of the great what-ifs lingering from the 2012 season.
Well, look at it this way. The Phillies fan base is, we all admit, a fair weather phenomenon. Will they lose a high percentage of season ticket holders if they unload Lee, Howard and Papelbon in a Miami Marlins style fire sale? If that happens, suddenly the payroll ceiling isn't so high. They also could lose out on a potentially bigger local TV deal.
Just playing devils advocate here...
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Well, look at it this way. The Phillies fan base is, we all admit, a fair weather phenomenon. Will they lose a high percentage of season ticket holders if they unload Lee, Howard and Papelbon in a Miami Marlins style fire sale? If that happens, suddenly the payroll ceiling isn't so high. They also could lose out on a potentially bigger local TV deal.
Just playing devils advocate here...
the way i look at it: '13 will be sort of a transition year, but they should still be in contention. and if you get one more good year out of utley, halladay and chooch while one or both of brown (i hope they finally give brown a full season instead of platooning him) or ruff emerges, they could surprise some people. lots of what-ifs obviously.
but either way, you got asche and one of the young catchers hopefully stepping up in '14 and there will be more money to spend to improve. gotta be glad, in hindsight, they didn't drastically overpay for any of these free agents.
gotta be glad, in hindsight, they didn't drastically overpay for any of these free agents.
certainly not ideal, but things could be worse.
Plenty of terrible contracts all around baseball, especially for 1B's given out last year. We have a couple of them but maybe not as many as some other high payroll teams, especially a couple in southern California.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
gotta be glad, in hindsight, they didn't drastically overpay for any of these free agents.
certainly not ideal, but things could be worse.
Plenty of terrible contracts all around baseball, especially for 1B's given out last year. We have a couple of them but maybe not as many as some other high payroll teams, especially a couple in southern California.
sucks when you have to look at other teams' bad contracts to feel better about your team.
everything I have read has said that asche isn't an everyday guy on a good team (fringe regular/platoon guy). the scouts aren't always right, but that's the consensus. I have never seen him play so I have no idea other than what I have read.
We have amaro to blame for ruining this organization. They might make the playoffs as a wild card, but they have next to no margin for error because of the way the roster and franchise in general is currently constructed
but thanks cliff. caps off an unreal 2012. probably the best year of my life. and 2013 is gonna be even better with this monster raise and hopefully new addition(s)
don't get too close to me. it's scary how potent I am
haven't been on much during the holidays and all but looked at it one day...not much holiday spirit in there. i imagine you can guess mostly by whom. 1st philly thread locked i think.
haven't been on much during the holidays and all but looked at it one day...not much holiday spirit in there. i imagine you can guess mostly by whom. 1st philly thread locked i think.
I was thinking the mods were Andy Reid fans.
Alright, alright, alright!
Tom O. "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
haven't been on much during the holidays and all but looked at it one day...not much holiday spirit in there. i imagine you can guess mostly by whom. 1st philly thread locked i think.
i love the fact that his office is basically an 8 by 12 shed in his back yard.
been meaning to read his truman book for years now.
I got Truman for Christmas and my god is that book a beast, just under 1,000 pages. Going to finish what I am reading now and then dig in for the long haul. A lot of Amazon reviews say it is a suprisingly quick read.
i love the fact that his office is basically an 8 by 12 shed in his back yard.
been meaning to read his truman book for years now.
I got Truman for Christmas and my god is that book a beast, just under 1,000 pages. Going to finish what I am reading now and then dig in for the long haul. A lot of Amazon reviews say it is a suprisingly quick read.
My wife is a couple hundred pages in.
Alright, alright, alright!
Tom O. "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
i love the fact that his office is basically an 8 by 12 shed in his back yard.
been meaning to read his truman book for years now.
I got Truman for Christmas and my god is that book a beast, just under 1,000 pages. Going to finish what I am reading now and then dig in for the long haul. A lot of Amazon reviews say it is a suprisingly quick read.
My wife is a couple hundred pages in.
Nice, just looking at it makes me nervous, but he is a hell of a writer so I am sure it is well done and worth it.
haven't been on much during the holidays and all but looked at it one day...not much holiday spirit in there. i imagine you can guess mostly by whom. 1st philly thread locked i think.
will be headed down with the wife. we're not sure if we are going to combine this with a bigger trip (swing by and catch a game on the way back from mexico or something) or if we will be staying in clearwater for an extended period of time. a few people at work have told us about a cool resort on captiva island, which is about 3 hours away. we'd make a day trip to catch a game if we go there.
i know some of you have been down there before. any advice on where to stay/what to do if we end up doing a week or so in clearwater?
will be headed down with the wife. we're not sure if we are going to combine this with a bigger trip (swing by and catch a game on the way back from mexico or something) or if we will be staying in clearwater for an extended period of time. a few people at work have told us about a cool resort on captiva island, which is about 3 hours away. we'd make a day trip to catch a game if we go there.
i know some of you have been down there before. any advice on where to stay/what to do if we end up doing a week or so in clearwater?
..thanks for all the advice, you sons of bitches.
going to mexico for a week instead. lil 2 year anniversary thing. just booked today.
definitely going down for a long weekend or something next year though.
will be headed down with the wife. we're not sure if we are going to combine this with a bigger trip (swing by and catch a game on the way back from mexico or something) or if we will be staying in clearwater for an extended period of time. a few people at work have told us about a cool resort on captiva island, which is about 3 hours away. we'd make a day trip to catch a game if we go there.
i know some of you have been down there before. any advice on where to stay/what to do if we end up doing a week or so in clearwater?
..thanks for all the advice, you sons of bitches.
going to mexico for a week instead. lil 2 year anniversary thing. just booked today.
definitely going down for a long weekend or something next year though.
every time I was down in clearwater it was for work, so I just stayed wherever and let my company pay for it. clearwater is awesome.
just got an email about a bach party in puerto rico at the end of march. awesome. there is nothing better than getting an email with bachelor party in the title
Comments
I liked last year's a lot. Cant put my finger on this year's taste...kind of piney. I guess I will pop one open since I don't have shit to do for the next two weeks. My next work appointment isn't until January 8th :thumbup: . Haven't shaved since Wednesday...might grow it out. Shaving sucks.
Chase Utley‘s recent injury history:
June 28, 2010: Utley injures his thumb in Cincinnati trying to stretch a single into a double. He soon has surgery to repair a torn ligament and misses 49 days and 43 games in total.
Off-season, 2011: Utley, suffering from patellar tendinitis in his right knee, is initially given orders to “take it easy“. He did not appear once in a spring training game, and did not make his regular season debut until May 23. He missed 84 days (including spring training) and 45 regular season games in total.
Off-season, 2012: The left knee is the culprit this time. Manager Charlie Manuel was “in no hurry” to put Utley, battling chondromalacia, in the spring training lineup. Utley again does not appear once during spring training and does not make his regular season debut until June 27. He missed 120 days (including spring training) and 76 regular season games in total.
Despite missing 164 of 486 games (34 percent), Utley still ranks fourth among all second basemen in that span of time in Wins Above Replacement, per Baseball Reference.
Player WAR PA From To Age
Robinson Cano 21.2 2074 2010 2012 27-29
Dustin Pedroia 15.6 1705 2010 2012 26-28
Ian Kinsler 12.9 1914 2010 2012 28-30
Chase Utley 12.3 1327 2010 2012 31-33
Brandon Phillips 11.9 1985 2010 2012 29-31
Howie Kendrick 8.9 1835 2010 2012 26-28
Dan Uggla 8.4 1976 2010 2012 30-32
Omar Infante 7.7 1734 2010 2012 28-30
Mark Ellis 7.4 1475 2010 2012 33-35
Kelly Johnson 7.0 1865 2010 2012 28-30
Neil Walker 6.7 1661 2010 2012 24-26
Darwin Barney 6.6 1244 2010 2012 24-26
Dustin Ackley 5.9 1044 2011 2012 23-24
Aaron Hill 5.7 1819 2010 2012 28-30
Rickie Weeks 5.7 1946 2010 2012 27-29
Danny Espinosa 5.5 1428 2010 2012 23-25
Orlando Hudson 3.1 1296 2010 2012 32-34
Gordon Beckham 1.7 1637 2010 2012 23-25
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/21/2012.
By FanGraphs WAR, Utley ranks sixth, behind Cano, Ben Zobrist*, Pedroia, Phillips, and Kinsler. Even when he was besieged by injuries, sapping him of mobility and power, Utley was still among baseball’s best at his position.
* Zobrist does not appear in the above table because he did not play at least 80 percent of his games at second base. FanGraphs does not have a positional playing time filter.
The Phillies are in an interesting spot with Chase Utley. The 34-year-old is eligible for free agency after the 2013 season and the Phillies are in the midst of what appears to be a transitional phase. The 2014 roster very well could feature new, younger faces at catcher, second base, third base, and at both outfield corners depending on what if anything the Phillies do to finish out this off-season. Yes, for the first time since 2002, the Phillies may feature a roster that does not include Chase Utley. Diamonds aren’t forever.
GM Ruben Amaro must decide if his team will go into a total rebuild or will simply tread water until the roster is permuted to satisfaction. Just as he must choose between Carlos Ruiz and youth at the catching position, Amaro must do so at second base with Chase Utley. Freddy Galvis is the obvious heir to Utley’s throne despite an incredibly weak offensive game. Aside from Galvis, the Phillies don’t have any prospects at second base, meaning that other options would be found via free agency or via trade.
The 2014 free agent class at second base may include such names as Robinson Cano and Ben Zobrist (if his $7 million club option is denied, which seems unlikely at the moment), but the two will be 31 and 33 respectively. It is hard to project which second basemen will be made available via trade as it depends on many factors, including the success of their teams in 2013. Suffice it to say the Phillies will have a very hard time replacing Utley’s production, even the old, broken-down Utley of recent vintage.
The Phillies could sign Utley to a short-term contract extension, covering two or three years, at around $10 million per year. It would be risky since the second baseman hasn’t surpassed 115 games played in a season since 2009. Utley may see his impending free agency as his last chance at a big contract, so he could choose to test the waters, turning over a new leaf with a different team.
At the moment, Utley is one of just 27 players all-time with five seasons of seven or more WAR, according to Baseball Reference. Of the 21 others, only nine others had five consecutive years of seven or more WAR as Utley did from 2005-09. Utley is also third all-time in Phillies history in WAR, trailing Mike Schmidt and Richie Ashburn. He will likely surpass Ashburn this season with little effort.
Player WAR From To Age G PA
Mike Schmidt 103.0 1972 1989 22-39 2404 10062
Richie Ashburn 54.6 1948 1959 21-32 1794 8223
Chase Utley 53.3 2003 2012 24-33 1192 5140
Sherry Magee 45.7 1904 1914 19-29 1521 6314
Bobby Abreu 45.4 1998 2006 24-32 1353 5885
Jimmy Rollins 40.3 2000 2012 21-33 1792 8236
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/21/2012.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
they should play some in LF, with the intent of moving him there for the final phase of his career. makes all too much sense though, so it will never happen
still a couple of decent pen arms available. should only take one year contracts for guys like howell or juan carlos oviedo.
The Philadelphia Phillies are kind of in an odd place on the baseball landscape right now. It would've been a mistake for Amaro to throw some pricey older free agents onto a roster that's already older and too expensive. But at the same time, Philadelphia has too many good players -- Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee and Cole Hamels, in particular -- to completely retreat.
So Amaro has worked within the parameters defined by the team's budget limitations. Because of the salary obligations to Lee (owed at least $87.5 million over the next three seasons), Ryan Howard (owed at least $105 million over the next four seasons), Hamels (who will make about $24 million annually over the next six seasons) and Chase Utley (who is entering the final year of his contract, and will make $15 million), the Phillies went for more modest upgrades.
Amaro traded for Michael Young to play third base (most of his salary will be paid by the Texas Rangers), traded for center fielder Ben Revere and signed reliever Mike Adams. So they look something like this:
1B: Ryan Howard
2B: Chase Utley
3B: Michael Young
SS: Jimmy Rollins
OF: John Mayberry Jr. (the Phillies could add a lefty-hitting complement)
CF: Ben Revere
OF: Domonic Brown/Darin Ruf
C: Carlos Ruiz (who will open 2013 with a 25-game suspension.)
SP: Roy Halladay
SP: Cliff Lee
SP: Cole Hamels
SP: Kyle Kendrick/Tyler Cloyd
SP: John Lannan
SU: Mike Adams
CL: Jonathan Papelbon
It's a roster good enough for success; on paper, they aren't as good as the Washington Nationals or the Atlanta Braves. The Phillies were at one of the most interesting crossroads in baseball last August, and you do wonder, with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, how different Philadelphia would be if the Phillies had found a way to take advantage of the Los Angeles Dodgers' hyper aggression.
Remember the first weekend after the trade deadline -- a few weeks before the blockbuster deal that L.A. made with Boston for Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett -- when the Dodgers placed a waiver claim on Cliff Lee? The Phillies never seriously considered the idea of allowing Lee to go to the Dodgers, choosing to pull the left-hander back from waivers.
But what if the Phillies had taken that opportunity, as the Red Sox later did, to reduce their salary obligations?
What if the Phillies had told the Dodgers: Look, you can have Cliff Lee, but you'll also have to take Howard and maybe Papelbon as well.
Which is what the Red Sox effectively did with Gonzalez: Yes, you can have him, but you also have to take Crawford and Beckett.
For Howard, 2012 was the first year of the five-year, $125 million extension he had signed with Philadelphia. If the Phillies had been able to shed all or most of that contract, as well as that of Lee and Papelbon (who is the game's highest-paid closer now, at $13 million annually, through 2015), it would have given them an immediate and incredible opportunity to remake the roster. Whether the Phillies had been able to package Howard with Lee, or Howard and Papelbon with Lee, Philadelphia might have gained payroll flexibility and set itself to move ahead with a younger roster.
There's no telling what the Dodgers' response would've been, of course. They valued Gonzalez partly because of his Mexican heritage and his Southern California roots, and perhaps they were more aggressive in the Red Sox deal than they ever would've been with the Phillies.
But they had been turned down by the Red Sox just before the July 31 trade deadline, and the Dodgers' ownership was devoted to the idea of making the team better, whatever the cost -- and they clearly had targeted Lee, repeatedly, and they did so again once his name popped up on waivers in early August.
At the time, some rival executives thought the Phillies' best play would've been to simply dump Lee's contract -- "A no-brainer," said one -- and that was before the industry was fully aware of how much money the Dodgers were willing to take on.
Maybe it would have been possible for the Phillies to move Lee, Howard and Papelbon; maybe not. There's really no way of knowing, because those decisions are made in real time.
The Phillies didn't really explore the Dodgers' interest in Lee after he was claimed on waivers, choosing to keep the pitcher. The Dodgers moved in another direction a few weeks later, in a big way, leaving the Lee claim as one of the great what-ifs lingering from the 2012 season.
Just playing devils advocate here...
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
the way i look at it: '13 will be sort of a transition year, but they should still be in contention. and if you get one more good year out of utley, halladay and chooch while one or both of brown (i hope they finally give brown a full season instead of platooning him) or ruff emerges, they could surprise some people. lots of what-ifs obviously.
but either way, you got asche and one of the young catchers hopefully stepping up in '14 and there will be more money to spend to improve. gotta be glad, in hindsight, they didn't drastically overpay for any of these free agents.
certainly not ideal, but things could be worse.
Plenty of terrible contracts all around baseball, especially for 1B's given out last year. We have a couple of them but maybe not as many as some other high payroll teams, especially a couple in southern California.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
sucks when you have to look at other teams' bad contracts to feel better about your team.
everything I have read has said that asche isn't an everyday guy on a good team (fringe regular/platoon guy). the scouts aren't always right, but that's the consensus. I have never seen him play so I have no idea other than what I have read.
We have amaro to blame for ruining this organization. They might make the playoffs as a wild card, but they have next to no margin for error because of the way the roster and franchise in general is currently constructed
god bless you
Life is good brother. Saw your post in some other thread...congrats big time...beers on me
haha, I thought you sneezed when I saw the title of the restaurant. I'm so lit I'm rooting for the cowboys right now
go bitch!!!!!!!!!!
don't get too close to me. it's scary how potent I am
good shit though. hoping for a penis this time
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
haven't been on much during the holidays and all but looked at it one day...not much holiday spirit in there. i imagine you can guess mostly by whom. 1st philly thread locked i think.
I was thinking the mods were Andy Reid fans.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
or ryan howard's...kat and sea dig the long ball
I got Truman for Christmas and my god is that book a beast, just under 1,000 pages. Going to finish what I am reading now and then dig in for the long haul. A lot of Amazon reviews say it is a suprisingly quick read.
My wife is a couple hundred pages in.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
Nice, just looking at it makes me nervous, but he is a hell of a writer so I am sure it is well done and worth it.
i guess i will start a new one...
will be headed down with the wife. we're not sure if we are going to combine this with a bigger trip (swing by and catch a game on the way back from mexico or something) or if we will be staying in clearwater for an extended period of time. a few people at work have told us about a cool resort on captiva island, which is about 3 hours away. we'd make a day trip to catch a game if we go there.
i know some of you have been down there before. any advice on where to stay/what to do if we end up doing a week or so in clearwater?
..thanks for all the advice, you sons of bitches.
going to mexico for a week instead. lil 2 year anniversary thing. just booked today.
definitely going down for a long weekend or something next year though.
every time I was down in clearwater it was for work, so I just stayed wherever and let my company pay for it. clearwater is awesome.
just got an email about a bach party in puerto rico at the end of march. awesome. there is nothing better than getting an email with bachelor party in the title