Imagine, for a moment, that Ryan Howard never signed his five-year, $125 million extension. He played out his previous three-year, $54 million deal, and reached free agency after the 2011 season. Joining Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder on the market, Howard is the third most desirable free agent first baseman.
The Phillies, who have already assembled one of the best rotations in the league and signed an upper echelon closer to a questionable deal, still have enough money in the budget to fill the hole vacated by Howard and re-sign Jimmy Rollins. With three perceived elite first baseman available, and a finite number of suitors given the price tags of that trio, the interested parties sit back and wait for asking prices to drop.
Maybe someone jumps the gun and signs Fielder to a humongous deal, but the likeliest scenario is that all three sign for less than they originally asked. It’s already started with Pujols and Fielder. Nobody has truly emerged as the clear suitor for either player. Is Pujols really going to play for the Marlins? Who the hell knows where Fielder will sign?
Both players want to go to winning teams with pockets deep enough to sign them… which is incredibly frustrating because the Phillies are one of those teams.
At least they would have been without Howard’s extension. The unrealized opportunity cost of signing Howard to that deal, which almost served as a post-hoc justification for the deal in some respects — primarily in that nobody could realize the ramifications until now — is finally being realized. Due to that extension, the Phillies cannot sign one of two elite players they definitely would have had a tremendous shot at signing.
In this case, Ruben Amaro’s need to get something done way ahead of time has come back to hurt the Phillies. No, maybe the deal does not prevent the Phillies from re-signing Rollins. It certainly didn’t prevent the team from bringing Papelbon into the fold. But the very real opportunity cost of his contract is the ability to sign Pujols or Fielder. Had the Phillies waited, there was very little risk. Worst case scenario, they vastly overpay someone. Best case scenario, they get a better player on a relatively lesser deal.
Waiting also hurts fans. Because of Amaro’s modus operandi in pouncing on free agents early in the offseason, when moves aren’t made it can drive us crazy. That craziness increases when moves that should take precedent are prioritized after less important moves. Case in point: Jimmy Rollins is still a free agent, Cole Hamels is still yet to be extended, and yet fans have spent the last few days discussing Brian Schneider.
Because of the front office’s approach, it has become difficult to wait. Amaro likes to accomplish his goals early, and it’s impossible not to read too much into moves or non-moves. Does the lack of activity on the Rollins front mean the Phils don’t like him? Does it mean they can’t afford him? Does the lack of a Hamels extension mean, as Buster Olney suggested, the team might seek to trade him with his value at an all-time high?
None of this might end up true. The Phillies may sign Rollins next week and extend Hamels the week after. But when we sit around and wait, with no rumor or story, especially in this day and age of instant access, and especially with a front office notorious for acting early and often, waiting is an agonizing process.
Waiting helps and hurts in different forms for fans and the team. Right now, it feels like nothing but hurt for the Phillies. The lack of waiting precluded the team from having a shot at a legitimate differencemaker at first base, and resulted in overpaying a closer that wanted to be here and could have eventually signed for less money. The lack of waiting may help Rollins return on a lesser deal, but it could also push him right into the arms of another team.
There are times to wait, and times to act, and the Phillies don’t seem to have that figured out just yet. The talent is there in both the roster and front office, but if the front office continues to transpose its approach to waiting, the big and unnecessary deals will eventually catch up. Let’s hope it doesn’t get to that point.
Awww shit. Going to see the allmans next Friday at the tower and just got an email that they are playing at filmore east in it's entirety
"Awww shit"? :wtf:
I hope you don't really mean awww shit.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
We just traded for Ty Winnington for a player to be named or cash from Colorado.
yeah. rocks are picking up half his '12 salary too. not a bad move i guess. lil pop off the bench. versatile guy. he's 34 though.
would be a good move if he didn't suck
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
. The current luxury tax threshold of $178 million will not increase in 2012 as it had in the previous CBA. The average yearly increase was $8 million in the old agreement.
Does that mean the Phillies' payroll ceiling is $178 million? Probably not. Team officials, including president David Montgomery, declared a willingness during last season to do what was needed — even if it meant going over the tax limit.
And while the luxury tax is this mythological status to avoid at all costs, it's really not debilitating. Teams who exceed it for the first time (and we are 99 percent certain the Phillies did not exceed the limit in 2011, but it's possible) must pay a tax of 22.5 percent on the amount they are over.
So let's say the Phillies' payroll is $180 million in 2012. They would be taxed on the $2 million and have to pay $450,000, or the equivalent of almost one minimum salary, to Major League Baseball. Again, if that's separating the Phillies from a deadline acquisition, it's not a huge impediment.
It's also possible that the actual tax is less under the new CBA in return for maintaining the same threshold.
The guess here is in 2012, the Phillies become the first National League team to ever pay luxury tax.
We just traded for Ty Winnington for a player to be named or cash from Colorado.
is that the dude who does the home makeover show? :?
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
yeah. rocks are picking up half his '12 salary too. not a bad move i guess. lil pop off the bench. versatile guy. he's 34 though.
I guess no Cuddyer now ?
i dunno. if they only have to pay wigginton 2 million, i guess they might still have room for someone else.
wiggington's got a 500k buyout after 2012 too.
salsbury thinks the phils still have an offer on the table for cuddyer...for probably less money than what was reported earlier. he'd have to take less to come here. hopefully he'd take less years too
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
well i'm that guy. we're in the process of renovating our kitchen. new appliances were delivered on thursday.....aaaaaaaaaand naturally i fucked up the measurement for the fridge. oh it fits in it's space. only thing is the door doesn't have any space to open, which apparently is important. need an extra half inch or so which this guy failed to account for. :x ....and the slightly smaller version of this one won't be in stock until next wednesday. so now we've got this fucking thing sticking out like a sore thumb, blocking 3/4's of the kitchen's door frame for close to 2 weeks.
the wife is none too pleased...at least i got the old kitchen fridge moved downstairs and the old/dead basement fridge hauled away. so the juggler has an operational beer fridge again.
sorry. just needed to rant. i can't wait till all this shit is done. such a pain in the ass.
well i'm that guy. we're in the process of renovating our kitchen. new appliances were delivered on thursday.....aaaaaaaaaand naturally i fucked up the measurement for the fridge. oh it fits in it's space. only thing is the door doesn't have any space to open, which apparently is important. need an extra half inch or so which this guy failed to account for. :x ....and the slightly smaller version of this one won't be in stock until next wednesday. so now we've got this fucking thing sticking out like a sore thumb, blocking 3/4's of the kitchen's door frame for close to 2 weeks.
the wife is none too pleased...at least i got the old kitchen fridge moved downstairs and the old/dead basement fridge hauled away. so the juggler has an operational beer fridge again.
sorry. just needed to rant. i can't wait till all this shit is done. such a pain in the ass.
Nice job.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
like I said, this guy sucks. here is law's take. nice job amaro :roll:
The Philadelphia Phillies acquired Ty Wigginton from the Rockies for cash or a player to be named later. Wigginton is now 34 years old and four years removed from a stone-fluke season in Houston in which he hit .343/.390/.691 at home (again, a great park for right-handed hitters); since that year, he has a composite line of .254/.310/.411 (removing IBB), and that includes a handful of at-bats in Coors Field in 2011. He can play six positions, all of them poorly.
If this does indeed end the Phillies' pursuit of Cuddyer, they have avoided a risky long-term commitment but are the worse team for it in 2012, as Wigginton shouldn't receive any kind of regular playing time and won't hit, hit for power or get on base as well as Cuddyer would. For the Rockies, this small bit of salary relief must have seemed like a gift from the gods, as Wigginton looked more like a future DFA candidate than a tradeable asset.
Comments
Imagine, for a moment, that Ryan Howard never signed his five-year, $125 million extension. He played out his previous three-year, $54 million deal, and reached free agency after the 2011 season. Joining Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder on the market, Howard is the third most desirable free agent first baseman.
The Phillies, who have already assembled one of the best rotations in the league and signed an upper echelon closer to a questionable deal, still have enough money in the budget to fill the hole vacated by Howard and re-sign Jimmy Rollins. With three perceived elite first baseman available, and a finite number of suitors given the price tags of that trio, the interested parties sit back and wait for asking prices to drop.
Maybe someone jumps the gun and signs Fielder to a humongous deal, but the likeliest scenario is that all three sign for less than they originally asked. It’s already started with Pujols and Fielder. Nobody has truly emerged as the clear suitor for either player. Is Pujols really going to play for the Marlins? Who the hell knows where Fielder will sign?
Both players want to go to winning teams with pockets deep enough to sign them… which is incredibly frustrating because the Phillies are one of those teams.
At least they would have been without Howard’s extension. The unrealized opportunity cost of signing Howard to that deal, which almost served as a post-hoc justification for the deal in some respects — primarily in that nobody could realize the ramifications until now — is finally being realized. Due to that extension, the Phillies cannot sign one of two elite players they definitely would have had a tremendous shot at signing.
In this case, Ruben Amaro’s need to get something done way ahead of time has come back to hurt the Phillies. No, maybe the deal does not prevent the Phillies from re-signing Rollins. It certainly didn’t prevent the team from bringing Papelbon into the fold. But the very real opportunity cost of his contract is the ability to sign Pujols or Fielder. Had the Phillies waited, there was very little risk. Worst case scenario, they vastly overpay someone. Best case scenario, they get a better player on a relatively lesser deal.
Waiting also hurts fans. Because of Amaro’s modus operandi in pouncing on free agents early in the offseason, when moves aren’t made it can drive us crazy. That craziness increases when moves that should take precedent are prioritized after less important moves. Case in point: Jimmy Rollins is still a free agent, Cole Hamels is still yet to be extended, and yet fans have spent the last few days discussing Brian Schneider.
Because of the front office’s approach, it has become difficult to wait. Amaro likes to accomplish his goals early, and it’s impossible not to read too much into moves or non-moves. Does the lack of activity on the Rollins front mean the Phils don’t like him? Does it mean they can’t afford him? Does the lack of a Hamels extension mean, as Buster Olney suggested, the team might seek to trade him with his value at an all-time high?
None of this might end up true. The Phillies may sign Rollins next week and extend Hamels the week after. But when we sit around and wait, with no rumor or story, especially in this day and age of instant access, and especially with a front office notorious for acting early and often, waiting is an agonizing process.
Waiting helps and hurts in different forms for fans and the team. Right now, it feels like nothing but hurt for the Phillies. The lack of waiting precluded the team from having a shot at a legitimate differencemaker at first base, and resulted in overpaying a closer that wanted to be here and could have eventually signed for less money. The lack of waiting may help Rollins return on a lesser deal, but it could also push him right into the arms of another team.
There are times to wait, and times to act, and the Phillies don’t seem to have that figured out just yet. The talent is there in both the roster and front office, but if the front office continues to transpose its approach to waiting, the big and unnecessary deals will eventually catch up. Let’s hope it doesn’t get to that point.
I knew my ears were burning.
I hope you don't really mean awww shit.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
no way. let's not get carried away
towson can lock up the CAA and a first round bye today.
Up 11 with four minutes left. Looking good
Bang. CAA champs. Round one bye.
Rob Ambrose for President. Love it.
more amaro magic. gotta love it :roll:
yeah. rocks are picking up half his '12 salary too. not a bad move i guess. lil pop off the bench. versatile guy. he's 34 though.
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
i dunno. if they only have to pay wigginton 2 million, i guess they might still have room for someone else.
wiggington's got a 500k buyout after 2012 too.
would be a good move if he didn't suck
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
. The current luxury tax threshold of $178 million will not increase in 2012 as it had in the previous CBA. The average yearly increase was $8 million in the old agreement.
Does that mean the Phillies' payroll ceiling is $178 million? Probably not. Team officials, including president David Montgomery, declared a willingness during last season to do what was needed — even if it meant going over the tax limit.
And while the luxury tax is this mythological status to avoid at all costs, it's really not debilitating. Teams who exceed it for the first time (and we are 99 percent certain the Phillies did not exceed the limit in 2011, but it's possible) must pay a tax of 22.5 percent on the amount they are over.
So let's say the Phillies' payroll is $180 million in 2012. They would be taxed on the $2 million and have to pay $450,000, or the equivalent of almost one minimum salary, to Major League Baseball. Again, if that's separating the Phillies from a deadline acquisition, it's not a huge impediment.
It's also possible that the actual tax is less under the new CBA in return for maintaining the same threshold.
The guess here is in 2012, the Phillies become the first National League team to ever pay luxury tax.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
my wife watches that show. i despise it
salsbury thinks the phils still have an offer on the table for cuddyer...for probably less money than what was reported earlier. he'd have to take less to come here. hopefully he'd take less years too
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
the wife is none too pleased...at least i got the old kitchen fridge moved downstairs and the old/dead basement fridge hauled away. so the juggler has an operational beer fridge again.
sorry. just needed to rant. i can't wait till all this shit is done. such a pain in the ass.
Nice job.
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
The Philadelphia Phillies acquired Ty Wigginton from the Rockies for cash or a player to be named later. Wigginton is now 34 years old and four years removed from a stone-fluke season in Houston in which he hit .343/.390/.691 at home (again, a great park for right-handed hitters); since that year, he has a composite line of .254/.310/.411 (removing IBB), and that includes a handful of at-bats in Coors Field in 2011. He can play six positions, all of them poorly.
If this does indeed end the Phillies' pursuit of Cuddyer, they have avoided a risky long-term commitment but are the worse team for it in 2012, as Wigginton shouldn't receive any kind of regular playing time and won't hit, hit for power or get on base as well as Cuddyer would. For the Rockies, this small bit of salary relief must have seemed like a gift from the gods, as Wigginton looked more like a future DFA candidate than a tradeable asset.
YAY!!