***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

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Comments

  • Yeah, read that earlier. Best part is ATL can't throw Hanson and Hudson in the same series in either head-to-head.

    BUT. An old saying I always like to use - let's not start sucking each other's (thumbs) just yet.
  • Cliffy6745 wrote:
    Werth has the highest WAR because he has been the only Phillie to stay healthy I would imagine

    That's why war means nothing to most people. Its a stat that shows that the phillies biggiest bonehead player is there best. When anyone who follows the team will tell u otherwise.

    I hope nobody gets me wrong. I like the idea of a WAR stat. I'm an actuary - I love statistics. I just think that the inputs that go into WAR are flawed. I think the idea that OPS is all that matters is bullshit. WAR & OPS take no consideration WHEN players get hits. So if Jayson Werth hits .100 with RISP & 2 outs (if that) and .400 with bases empty, he has a great OPS & WAR. But that doesn't mean he had a great season or was a good team player this year. Baseball is a team sport - even if it has a large individual component especially compared to other sports.
    Yeah, read that earlier. Best part is ATL can't throw Hanson and Hudson in the same series in either head-to-head.

    BUT. An old saying I always like to use - let's not start sucking each other's (thumbs) just yet.

    You're right. It's exciting to see this team up 3 games - really exciting. But ask the Mets, we know what can happen. Just ask The Wolf himself.

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  • Yeah, read that earlier. Best part is ATL can't throw Hanson and Hudson in the same series in either head-to-head.

    BUT. An old saying I always like to use - let's not start sucking each other's (thumbs) just yet.

    You're right. It's exciting to see this team up 3 games - really exciting. But ask the Mets, we know what can happen. Just ask The Wolf himself.

    469640059_047692568b_o.jpg

    If I'm curt with you, it's because time is a factor.

    Actuary huh? I love statistics, but doesn't that seem to fall just as much into the accounting field? And I can't stand that shit. Did you have to take those series of 10 tests to make a fack load of money?
  • Every time I read this thread I think of the ESPN commercial...


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TBusqMaCEM


    "Nerds"

    :lol:
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • If I'm curt with you, it's because time is a factor.

    Actuary huh? I love statistics, but doesn't that seem to fall just as much into the accounting field? And I can't stand that shit. Did you have to take those series of 10 tests to make a fack load of money?

    It touches a little on accounting, but it's mostly statistics. Someone's gotta do it, right?

    Yeah, lots of tests. I'm not a millionaire or anything though. I don't have a mansion.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13;
    WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
    Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,466
    If I'm curt with you, it's because time is a factor.

    Actuary huh? I love statistics, but doesn't that seem to fall just as much into the accounting field? And I can't stand that shit. Did you have to take those series of 10 tests to make a fack load of money?

    It touches a little on accounting, but it's mostly statistics. Someone's gotta do it, right?

    Yeah, lots of tests. I'm not a millionaire or anything though. I don't have a mansion.

    when you do acquire said mansion, please contact me for the financing.

    thanks.
    www.myspace.com
  • when you do acquire said mansion, please contact me for the financing.

    thanks.

    Oakie doak. Paying 5% on a 30 year - should I be refinancing yet again?
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13;
    WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
    Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • If I'm curt with you, it's because time is a factor.

    Actuary huh? I love statistics, but doesn't that seem to fall just as much into the accounting field? And I can't stand that shit. Did you have to take those series of 10 tests to make a fack load of money?

    It touches a little on accounting, but it's mostly statistics. Someone's gotta do it, right?

    Yeah, lots of tests. I'm not a millionaire or anything though. I don't have a mansion.

    No mansion? I thought that was the point of being an actuary. You may be receiving some questions via PM from me regarding this field.
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    your jeagler has just secured tickets to wednesday's braves game :clap:
    it really is a pleasure knowing we'll be seeing mr oswalt on the mound for that one. helluva trade.


    i don't know about you clowns but my confidence level is inching up towards the roof right now. i'm really liking our chances next month....

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... s_set.html

    the bullpen is still a major question mark. PLayoffs are wide open though...all the teams, especially in the NL are flawed.

    Where you sitting wednesday?
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    For the anti-WAR crowd, it also takes defense and baserunning into account. It's the best stastical measure of all around performance that there is in baseball today (which is why guys like ryan howard grade so poorly and guys like chase utley grade so well). but if you want to pretend like it's still 1988 and go by RBI and runs, be my guest.
  • The Fixer wrote:
    For the anti-WAR crowd, it also takes defense and baserunning into account. It's the best stastical measure of all around performance that there is in baseball today (which is why guys like ryan howard grade so poorly and guys like chase utley grade so well). but if you want to pretend like it's still 1988 and go by RBI and runs, be my guest.

    Once again u bring him up,and still u under value hrs,rbi's and the clutch gene. Has werth been are best player this year? According to that flawed stat he has,but u me and everyone else know he isn't or hasn't been. NO stat tells the whole truth.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    The Fixer wrote:
    For the anti-WAR crowd, it also takes defense and baserunning into account. It's the best stastical measure of all around performance that there is in baseball today (which is why guys like ryan howard grade so poorly and guys like chase utley grade so well). but if you want to pretend like it's still 1988 and go by RBI and runs, be my guest.

    Once again u bring him up,and still u under value hrs,rbi's and the clutch gene. Has werth been are best player this year? According to that flawed stat he has,but u me and everyone else know he isn't or hasn't been. NO stat tells the whole truth.

    I'd agree with Johnny that chooch has been their best positional player this year...as well as the fact that werth's biggest value to this team has been his ability to stay in the lineup.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,466
    when you do acquire said mansion, please contact me for the financing.

    thanks.

    Oakie doak. Paying 5% on a 30 year - should I be refinancing yet again?

    depending on your situation you could be looking at low 4's. their starting to creep up slightly though...
    www.myspace.com
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,466
    The Fixer wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    For the anti-WAR crowd, it also takes defense and baserunning into account. It's the best stastical measure of all around performance that there is in baseball today (which is why guys like ryan howard grade so poorly and guys like chase utley grade so well). but if you want to pretend like it's still 1988 and go by RBI and runs, be my guest.

    Once again u bring him up,and still u under value hrs,rbi's and the clutch gene. Has werth been are best player this year? According to that flawed stat he has,but u me and everyone else know he isn't or hasn't been. NO stat tells the whole truth.

    I'd agree with Johnny that chooch has been their best positional player this year...as well as the fact that werth's biggest value to this team has been his ability to stay in the lineup.

    johnny also said werth's high war was proof its a flawed stat. this was the first year howard missed time for injury in years and you always knock him for his low war....
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  • jamminpearlsjamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    edited September 2010
    The Fixer wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    For the anti-WAR crowd, it also takes defense and baserunning into account. It's the best stastical measure of all around performance that there is in baseball today (which is why guys like ryan howard grade so poorly and guys like chase utley grade so well). but if you want to pretend like it's still 1988 and go by RBI and runs, be my guest.

    Once again u bring him up,and still u under value hrs,rbi's and the clutch gene. Has werth been are best player this year? According to that flawed stat he has,but u me and everyone else know he isn't or hasn't been. NO stat tells the whole truth.

    I'd agree with Johnny that chooch has been their best positional player this year...as well as the fact that werth's biggest value to this team has been his ability to stay in the lineup.

    Ill give u an A for competely avoiding the question. War is far from always being right as Jayson Werth is a perfect example,the stat is flawed.
    Post edited by jamminpearls on
    Go Birds!!!!
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,466
    The Fixer wrote:
    your jeagler has just secured tickets to wednesday's braves game :clap:
    it really is a pleasure knowing we'll be seeing mr oswalt on the mound for that one. helluva trade.


    i don't know about you clowns but my confidence level is inching up towards the roof right now. i'm really liking our chances next month....

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... s_set.html

    the bullpen is still a major question mark. PLayoffs are wide open though...all the teams, especially in the NL are flawed.

    Where you sitting wednesday?


    bullpen was a question last year too and we got to game 6. i think we're in better shape now than last year.

    i spoke too soon on securing the tix...but i'll either be in 325 or 420-ish (those 420-ish seats are the best bang for the buck in that stadium. i love sitting there)
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  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    The Fixer wrote:

    Once again u bring him up,and still u under value hrs,rbi's and the clutch gene. Has werth been are best player this year? According to that flawed stat he has,but u me and everyone else know he isn't or hasn't been. NO stat tells the whole truth.

    I'd agree with Johnny that chooch has been their best positional player this year...as well as the fact that werth's biggest value to this team has been his ability to stay in the lineup.

    johnny also said werth's high war was proof its a flawed stat. this was the first year howard missed time for injury in years and you always knock him for his low war....

    werth's WAR is higher than howards for a number of reasons...defense, OBP, baserunning, position, etc.

    never said howard's WAR was low due to him missing time. not sure if that's what you were insinuating

    I don't even know how I got roped back into this. WAR is a valuable tool to reflect a players all around contribution. It's not the be-all-end-all, no stat is.
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    The Fixer wrote:

    Once again u bring him up,and still u under value hrs,rbi's and the clutch gene. Has werth been are best player this year? According to that flawed stat he has,but u me and everyone else know he isn't or hasn't been. NO stat tells the whole truth.

    I'd agree with Johnny that chooch has been their best positional player this year...as well as the fact that werth's biggest value to this team has been his ability to stay in the lineup.

    Ill give u an A for competely avoiding the question. War is far from always being right as Jayson Werth is a perfect example,the stat is flawed.

    you asked if jayson werth has been 'are' best player this year. I said no, chooch has.

    'are best player'. classic
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837


    i think we're in better shape now than last year.

    I completely disagree. Last year Eyre and Park were great in the playoffs. ANd romero was much better than he has been this year (which isn't saying much since he sucks).

    This year they have no competent LH reliever. Contreras has been hit or miss. Durbin is OK. Madson has been great. and lidge is OK. so they have 1 solid option out of their pen. That is a huge concern for me.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,466
    The Fixer wrote:


    i think we're in better shape now than last year.

    I completely disagree. Last year Eyre and Park were great in the playoffs. ANd romero was much better than he has been this year (which isn't saying much since he sucks).

    This year they have no competent LH reliever. Contreras has been hit or miss. Durbin is OK. Madson has been great. and lidge is OK. so they have 1 solid option out of their pen. That is a huge concern for me.

    last year we had pedro martinez making 2 starts in the world series. this year we have 3 aces. its basically a question of what is more important---a better bullpen or a better rotation. i think our top 3 in the rotation outweighs the deficiences in the pen. plus the back end of the pen is better than last year too.
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  • How u got ropped into it lol,u aka THE FIXER brought Howard up once again. A war conservation was going on without Howards name,u join the conservation and it comes up.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    The Fixer wrote:


    i think we're in better shape now than last year.

    I completely disagree. Last year Eyre and Park were great in the playoffs. ANd romero was much better than he has been this year (which isn't saying much since he sucks).

    This year they have no competent LH reliever. Contreras has been hit or miss. Durbin is OK. Madson has been great. and lidge is OK. so they have 1 solid option out of their pen. That is a huge concern for me.

    last year we had pedro martinez making 2 starts in the world series. this year we have 3 aces. its basically a question of what is more important---a better bullpen or a better rotation. i think our top 3 in the rotation outweighs the deficiences in the pen. plus the back end of the pen is better than last year too.

    I hope you're right. I think the bullpen is just as, if not more important come playoff time. Their rotation is much much better, no question about that.

    Back of bullpen is pretty much the same. Lidge might be better than last year, but their 7th inning guy will be worse than park was last year.

    Heard on MLB Network last night that Lidges' WHIP this year is lower than it was in 2008. That is fucking crazy
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    How u got ropped into it lol,u aka THE FIXER brought Howard up once again. A war conservation was going on without Howards name,u join the conservation and it comes up.

    I was just using howard as an example of a one dimensional player. I wasn't trying to start another war (no pun intended). I should have picked someone else, like brad hawpe
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,466
    The Fixer wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:

    I completely disagree. Last year Eyre and Park were great in the playoffs. ANd romero was much better than he has been this year (which isn't saying much since he sucks).

    This year they have no competent LH reliever. Contreras has been hit or miss. Durbin is OK. Madson has been great. and lidge is OK. so they have 1 solid option out of their pen. That is a huge concern for me.

    last year we had pedro martinez making 2 starts in the world series. this year we have 3 aces. its basically a question of what is more important---a better bullpen or a better rotation. i think our top 3 in the rotation outweighs the deficiences in the pen. plus the back end of the pen is better than last year too.

    I hope you're right. I think the bullpen is just as, if not more important come playoff time. Their rotation is much much better, no question about that.

    Back of bullpen is pretty much the same. Lidge might be better than last year, but their 7th inning guy will be worse than park was last year.

    Heard on MLB Network last night that Lidges' WHIP this year is lower than it was in 2008. That is fucking crazy

    plus the bench is much improved.

    so you've got a worsened middle relief/lefty specialist situation
    we'll call it the same back end....though i would lean to saying its slightly better just because lidge is healthy
    offense--same
    the bench is much improved due to all the time they got with the injuries and addition of dom brown
    and the rotation is infinitely improved

    plus--assuming things go according to plan, homefield advantage throughout the entire playoffs and world series which we did not have last year.
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  • No mansion? I thought that was the point of being an actuary. You may be receiving some questions via PM from me regarding this field.

    I've got a regular job for a shitty company just like everyone else. Industry consolidation, belt tightening, outsourcing, all that shit we have to deal with.

    I think our bullpen is in better shape than 2009 too. Lidge was a certifiable disaster last year - he had the worst year ever for a closer. I'm not a big proponent of "closers" but that definitely has a huge effect on the confidence of a team. I also don't think Madson was as good as he is this year. As for the lack of a LOOGY, Romero sucked last year too, when he wasn't injured or on suspension. I guess Eyre was pretty valuable.

    As for WAR & position players, I noticed a huge dropoff in the Phillies' play when Chooch was on the DL. They really struggled without him. I think they did ok without everyone else, including R6, actually. That guy is due for a nice contract.
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  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837

    plus the bench is much improved.

    so you've got a worsened middle relief/lefty specialist situation
    we'll call it the same back end....though i would lean to saying its slightly better just because lidge is healthy
    offense--same
    the bench is much improved due to all the time they got with the injuries and addition of dom brown
    and the rotation is infinitely improved

    plus--assuming things go according to plan, homefield advantage throughout the entire playoffs and world series which we did not have last year.

    solid analysis. I'd say the offense is better if rollins is healthy. Polanco over Feliz is a HUGE upgrade. I think they are better in all facets except for the bullpen. Come playoff time, the bullpen is arguably the most important part of the team.

    At least we're talking about playoffs, which is something I was concerned about after that abortion of a series vs the astros.

    Also, braves now on a 9 game road trip. they are under .500 on the road this year. phils can really win the division over the next week.
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    No mansion? I thought that was the point of being an actuary. You may be receiving some questions via PM from me regarding this field.

    I've got a regular job for a shitty company just like everyone else. Industry consolidation, belt tightening, outsourcing, all that shit we have to deal with.

    I think our bullpen is in better shape than 2009 too. Lidge was a certifiable disaster last year - he had the worst year ever for a closer. I'm not a big proponent of "closers" but that definitely has a huge effect on the confidence of a team. I also don't think Madson was as good as he is this year. As for the lack of a LOOGY, Romero sucked last year too, when he wasn't injured or on suspension. I guess Eyre was pretty valuable.

    As for WAR & position players, I noticed a huge dropoff in the Phillies' play when Chooch was on the DL. They really struggled without him. I think they did ok without everyone else, including R6, actually. That guy is due for a nice contract.

    chooch just got a 3 year deal before this season.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,466
    The Fixer wrote:

    plus the bench is much improved.

    so you've got a worsened middle relief/lefty specialist situation
    we'll call it the same back end....though i would lean to saying its slightly better just because lidge is healthy
    offense--same
    the bench is much improved due to all the time they got with the injuries and addition of dom brown
    and the rotation is infinitely improved

    plus--assuming things go according to plan, homefield advantage throughout the entire playoffs and world series which we did not have last year.

    solid analysis. I'd say the offense is better if rollins is healthy. Polanco over Feliz is a HUGE upgrade. I think they are better in all facets except for the bullpen. Come playoff time, the bullpen is arguably the most important part of the team.

    At least we're talking about playoffs, which is something I was concerned about after that abortion of a series vs the astros.

    Also, braves now on a 9 game road trip. they are under .500 on the road this year. phils can really win the division over the next week.

    thats why i really want the wednesday game tickets....let's say we both win 2 this weekend. we'll be 3 up heading into that series. take 2 out of 3 and we're up 4 with a week and a half to play. HEY. OH.
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  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    this might be getting a little ahead of ourselves, but who would you put on the playoff roster as bench guys? assuming 5 spots I'd go

    gload
    valdez
    schneider
    sweeney
    francisco

    pretty cut and dry I think. I guess you could argue dobbs over sweeney just for his versatility
  • The Fixer wrote:
    chooch just got a 3 year deal before this season.

    Oops. Way to make myself sound like an idiot. :oops:

    Only 5 bench spots? I guess that means a 12-man rotation. Do you need 12 if you only have 6 pitchers you're gonna use in close games anyway? It'd be nice to have Dom Brown for pinch running and the like.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13;
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    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
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